Daniels >> Nabers

[Paradis]

Finally getting around to digging into his game film... uh, overrated is too strong a word, but this did more for Daniels for me than Nabers. Good WR prospect, shares a lot of commonalities with Garret Wilson, but he owes a ton of his future signing bonus to Daniels -- who I haven't been sweet enough on apparently. I'd expect that as the draft gets closer, you may see him supplant Caleb Williams.

Daniels consistently picked his moments with Malik based on what the defense was doing. While Nabers flashes craft/footwork, he's not particularly twitchy and his route running needs refining. Nabers' big plays were often a result of scheming him open up the slot, and Daniels sitting in the pocket for 1/2 hour. Understand that i'm not saying dissing Nabers as potential 1st round WR, but the hype is clearly writing blank cheques on this one. He has the potential to become a comp of Keenan Allen, but the Daniels effect has inflated his draft stock. 

TLDR version; Film highlights Daniels more than Nabers, who I would have as back half of the 1st WR, but not this top 10 stuff. Exceptional ball tracking, and hands. Crafty. 

[Augustiniak]

22 minutes ago, Paradis said:

Finally getting around to digging into his game film... uh, overrated is too strong a word, but this did more for Daniels for me than Nabers. Good WR prospect, shares a lot of commonalities with Garret Wilson, but he owes a ton of his future signing bonus to Daniels -- who I haven't been sweet enough on apparently. I'd expect that as the draft gets closer, you may see him supplant Caleb Williams.

Daniels consistently picked his moments with Malik based on what the defense was doing. While Nabers flashes Keenan Allen like moves/footwork, his route running i thought was a bit sloppy. Nabers big plays were often a result of scheming him open up the slot, and Daniels sitting in the pocket for 1/2 hour. Understand that i'm not saying dissing Nabers as potential 1st round WR, but the hype is clearly writing blank cheques on this one. He has the potential to become a comp of Keenan Allen, but the Daniels effect has inflated his draft stock. 

TLDR version; Film highlights Daniels more than Nabers, who I would have as back half of the 1st WR, but not this top 10 stuff. Exceptional ball tracking, and hands. Crafty. 

I may be in the minority but i like Daniels and mccarthy more than the other 2 qbs.  And i think come draft day, mccarthy is going top 10 b/c either the raiders, broncos, Vikings or even saints are trading up for him.  I think 4 qbs go top 9, along with 3 wrs.  That means if even 1 defensive player goes top 9 the jets can get a top 2 LT if they even want one. 

[Adoni Beast]

Daniels will most likely end up being the best QB in this draft, followed by Maye, and I smell bust for Caleb.

[Paradis]

28 minutes ago, Adoni Beast said:

Daniels will most likely end up being the best QB in this draft, followed by Maye, and I smell bust for Caleb.

I don't like Maye that much, but Daniels to me at this point is the safest bet. Can't speak to ceilings, but he showed everything i wanted to see in the pocket  

[Paradis]

semi-related -- Brian Thomas Jr, who i think gets tossed around as a late 1st, early 2nd -- is day 3 at best. round 5-7 with uncorrectable issues; hands, speed, concentration. PASS

[T0mShane]

I think Daniels vs Maye vs Caleb is an interesting conversation, but I also think Nabers is going to be the guy we hoped OBJ was going to be. That burst he has when the ball is in the air is Tyreek-like. I kinda hope a cool team like the Vikings comes up for Daniels. 

[Paradis]

1 minute ago, T0mShane said:

I think Daniels vs Maye vs Caleb is an interesting conversation, but I also think Nabers is going to be the guy we hoped OBJ was going to be. That burst he has when the ball is in the air is Tyreek-like. I kinda hope a cool team like the Vikings comes up for Daniels. 

Right. So the theme of this thread is your take on Nabers is inaccurate. If you'd like to continue, press #1

[T0mShane]

1 minute ago, Paradis said:

Right. So the theme of this thread is your take on Nabers is inaccurate. If you'd like to continue, press #1

HOW’S JALEN HURD DOING PAL?

[Beerfish]

Sorry not buying it.   Daniels being drafted ahead of nabers?  Sure Daniels being better than the top two guys?   Not buying it.

[Paradis]

1 hour ago, T0mShane said:

HOW’S JALEN HURD DOING PAL?

You've been on my Twitter recently i see lol

[Paradis]

10 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

Sorry not buying it.   Daniels being drafted ahead of nabers?  Sure Daniels being better than the top two guys?   Not buying it.

Well he will, but that's not what i said... I watched the 2023 games and Daniels deserves a lot of credit for the way Nabers looks. 

Seriously (not directed at you specifically) but its the same sh*t every year in here. "hey, Jameson Williams might not be who you think he is" followed by eye rolls and ridicule, INSTEAD of inquisitive discourse. 

Maybe, just maybe i'm not wrong. In fact, statistically in this space, i'm rarely wrong. 

[Paradis]

1 hour ago, Paradis said:

You've been on my Twitter recently i see lol

So i'm 31-1. Sue me. 

also he was hercules out there until he BROKE HIS BACK.... so lets hang that one up pls

[T0mShane]

3 minutes ago, Paradis said:

also he was fcking hercules out there, until he BROKE HIS BACK.... so lets hang that one up pls

I remember everything. Jazz Ferguson!?!?!

[Paradis]

5 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

I remember everything. Jazz Ferguson!?!?!

yep UDFA/Round 6-7 target. Gorgeous one too who tore it up in SEA TC camp... guess we'll never know why he was cut and no one picked him up -- but certainly wasn't a lack ability to make plays. 

Lets get back to discussing top 10 WR assessments, rather than my hopes for day 3 dart throws

[T0mShane]

1 hour ago, Paradis said:

yep UDFA/Round 6-7 target. Gorgeous one too who tore it up in SEA TC camp... guess we'll never know why he was cut and no one picked him up -- but certainly wasn't a lack ability to make plays. 

Lets get back to discussing top 10 WR assessments, rather than my hopes for day 3 dart throws

Rank these three prospects: Xavier Legette, Malachi Corley, Ja’Lynn Polk

[Paradis]

19 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Rank these three prospects: Xavier Legette, Malachi Corley, Ja’Lynn Polk

Legette by a country, for many reasons

 

 

Polk - flashes, twitchy.. but lots of gaps in his game. The best and worst of Elijah Moore.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Corley - still running the 40 at the combine in April.

[Paradis]

29 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Rank these three prospects: Xavier Legette, Malachi Corley, Ja’Lynn Polk

my turn - Troy Franklin, Keon Coleman, Brian Thomas and Adonai Mitchell 

also please answer your own

[T0mShane]

14 minutes ago, Paradis said:

my turn - Troy Franklin, Keon Coleman, Brian Thomas and Adonai Mitchell 

also please answer your own

I’m very bad at looking at receivers and picking out the ones that’ll be good because all I want in a receiver is a guy who can make contested catches and that always makes me fond of big-bodied stiffs with nice 40’s who can’t move laterally. That said, of the ones mentioned, I think I’d draft Franklin and Polk and pass on the rest. I know Dane Brugler has been talking up Brian Thomas lately, but I don’t know because I think Nabers is so deadly that it’d presumably leave Thomas in super single coverage all the time. On the mock draft machine, Odunze falls to ten a bunch and I’m always like, “the Jets have to take him, no?”

 

[Paradis]

7 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

I’m very bad at looking at receivers and picking out the ones that’ll be good because all I want in a receiver is a guy who can make contested catches and that always makes me fond of big-bodied stiffs with nice 40’s who can’t move laterally. That said, of the ones mentioned, I think I’d draft Franklin and Polk and pass on the rest. I know Dane Brugler has been talking up Brian Thomas lately, but I don’t know because I think Nabers is so deadly that it’d presumably leave Thomas in super single coverage all the time. On the mock draft machine, Odunze falls to ten a bunch and I’m always like, “the Jets have to take him, no?”

 

 

[Paradis]

14 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

I’m very bad at looking at receivers and picking out the ones that’ll be good because all I want in a receiver is a guy who can make contested catches and that always makes me fond of big-bodied stiffs with nice 40’s who can’t move laterally. That said, of the ones mentioned, I think I’d draft Franklin and Polk and pass on the rest. I know Dane Brugler has been talking up Brian Thomas lately, but I don’t know because I think Nabers is so deadly that it’d presumably leave Thomas in super single coverage all the time. On the mock draft machine, Odunze falls to ten a bunch and I’m always like, “the Jets have to take him, no?”

 

I don't think you should be afraid to love Legette.

Here's the thing, i know you're man of higher learning. If you took the consensus top 5 WRs every year, then looked at them five years later, 0/100 times would those 5 be redrafted in that order. In fact, more than likely 2 of them might not even get drafted in top 10 at the position. So it stands to reason that there really should be more standard deviation in "Pre-draft" rankings by pundits. Or at least the appetite for it.

BUT

Nothing could be further from the truth. You move a name like Odunze out of the top 5? Tar and feathered.  That's a problem. If it's the same 5 names every time at the top, you know its never going to play out like that. 

 

[Paradis]

5 hours ago, T0mShane said:

I’m very bad at looking at receivers and picking out the ones that’ll be good because all I want in a receiver is a guy who can make contested catches and that always makes me fond of big-bodied stiffs with nice 40’s who can’t move laterally. That said, of the ones mentioned, I think I’d draft Franklin and Polk and pass on the rest. I know Dane Brugler has been talking up Brian Thomas lately, but I don’t know because I think Nabers is so deadly that it’d presumably leave Thomas in super single coverage all the time. On the mock draft machine, Odunze falls to ten a bunch and I’m always like, “the Jets have to take him, no?”

 

No one crushes harder than me on big bodied WRs... Don't fight this one Tom... I like Polk as well, but the more of I watch the more it's clear to me that's not dynamic FT starter in 2-WR sets.  Maybe a twitchier Tyler Boyd at his best. But even if you believe in him, I personally would rather gamble on Legette's ability.

 

 

[maury77]

19 hours ago, Paradis said:

Finally getting around to digging into his game film... uh, overrated is too strong a word, but this did more for Daniels for me than Nabers. Good WR prospect, shares a lot of commonalities with Garret Wilson, but he owes a ton of his future signing bonus to Daniels -- who I haven't been sweet enough on apparently. I'd expect that as the draft gets closer, you may see him supplant Caleb Williams.

Daniels consistently picked his moments with Malik based on what the defense was doing. While Nabers flashes craft/footwork, he's not particularly twitchy and his route running needs refining. Nabers' big plays were often a result of scheming him open up the slot, and Daniels sitting in the pocket for 1/2 hour. Understand that i'm not saying dissing Nabers as potential 1st round WR, but the hype is clearly writing blank cheques on this one. He has the potential to become a comp of Keenan Allen, but the Daniels effect has inflated his draft stock. 

TLDR version; Film highlights Daniels more than Nabers, who I would have as back half of the 1st WR, but not this top 10 stuff. Exceptional ball tracking, and hands. Crafty. 

I'm going to have to rewatch the tape on Nabers I saw because my initial impressions are way different that yours (and we tend to agree on prospects). 

[Barry McCockinner]

23 hours ago, Paradis said:

Finally getting around to digging into his game film... uh, overrated is too strong a word, but this did more for Daniels for me than Nabers. Good WR prospect, shares a lot of commonalities with Garret Wilson, but he owes a ton of his future signing bonus to Daniels -- who I haven't been sweet enough on apparently. I'd expect that as the draft gets closer, you may see him supplant Caleb Williams.

Daniels consistently picked his moments with Malik based on what the defense was doing. While Nabers flashes craft/footwork, he's not particularly twitchy and his route running needs refining. Nabers' big plays were often a result of scheming him open up the slot, and Daniels sitting in the pocket for 1/2 hour. Understand that i'm not saying dissing Nabers as potential 1st round WR, but the hype is clearly writing blank cheques on this one. He has the potential to become a comp of Keenan Allen, but the Daniels effect has inflated his draft stock. 

TLDR version; Film highlights Daniels more than Nabers, who I would have as back half of the 1st WR, but not this top 10 stuff. Exceptional ball tracking, and hands. Crafty. 

What was your take on his ability in the short-medium passing game? I see a lot of highlights of him throwing dimes down field and running the ball but you don't see much of him doing the boring stuff to move the chains and I've even seen people list it as a weakness. Could just be something they didn't do much of but you can't just sit back and throw bombs in todays NFL.

[section314]

11 hours ago, Paradis said:

No one crushes harder than me on big bodied WRs... Don't fight this one Tom... I like Polk as well, but the more of I watch the more it's clear to me that's not dynamic FT starter in 2-WR sets.  Maybe a twitchier Tyler Boyd at his best. But even if you believe in him, I personally would rather gamble on Legette's ability.

 

 

Legette…1st or 2nd rd?

[Paradis]

1 hour ago, Barry McCockinner said:

What was your take on his ability in the short-medium passing game? I see a lot of highlights of him throwing dimes down field and running the ball but you don't see much of him doing the boring stuff to move the chains and I've even seen people list it as a weakness. Could just be something they didn't do much of but you can't just sit back and throw bombs in todays NFL.

I'll post some cut up stuff here for easy viewing, but I would agree that he's stronger with longer throws, but that's with a grain of salt. Neither Thomas Jr or Nabers is Jefferson twitchy and explode of their breaks in short area stuff (3-5 digs and curls) so who knows.

His ball placement is exceptional. He stands in the pocket, keeps resetting his stance and fires based on what the Def is giving him... Quickly too when it's there. Not taking anything away from Nabers' hands, cause they're good... but he's often gift wrapped a throw in the basket. 

[Paradis]

1 hour ago, section314 said:

Legette…1st or 2nd rd?

2nd for me. Loved the freakzilla in him, but the technical nuance of the position is not developed yet.

[section314]

4 minutes ago, Paradis said:

2nd for me. Loved the freakzilla in him, but the technical nuance of the position is not developed yet.

Wasn’t Andre Reed a 2nd rd guy?😎

[Paradis]

6 hours ago, maury77 said:

I'm going to have to rewatch the tape on Nabers I saw because my initial impressions are way different that yours (and we tend to agree on prospects). 

So these are condensed plays in game, but works for this conversation-- He's fast, shakes DBs, great concentration & ball tracking, strong hands -- all of it is exceptional and deserving of the WR2 label I've come to agree with. Coleman/Odunze & Co aren't as complete...

but look how often Daniels made it easy for him; especially on late developing plays out of the slot; superb timing/placement. He FEASTED on picking apart zone Defenses...  Nabers benefited a lot from that is my point.... Blowing by safeties on a free release is nice to watch, but it's not a special talent. Daniels puts the ball in the perfect spot a lot, AND on the right plays. The lack of forcing the ball/wasted throws is impressive. 

Anyway, I think he's worth a 1st, i just I think i felt compelled to pump the brakes a bit with the way he's getting ranked as top 5 overall in the draft. There's a few things missing i'd like to see - he doesn't climb the ladder and attack the ball in the air, and sometimes gets bullied by defenders. This is nitpicking i know, but Daniels put the ball in such a good spot, that Nabers rarely had to cross those bridges.

Auburn game has a couple reps that speak to this. Daniels wasn't able to throw over the defender on a couple plays/didn't have his best game, and I feel like Nabers' needs to jump/attack and play through the defender. Anyway... feels kind of trivial at this point, but that's me. I always feel compelled to be the "slow down now--" guy

 

[Grandy]

Us winning out of a good QB pick is going to haunt us

[T0mShane]

22 hours ago, Paradis said:

I don't think you should be afraid to love Legette.

Here's the thing, i know you're man of higher learning. If you took the consensus top 5 WRs every year, then looked at them five years later, 0/100 times would those 5 be redrafted in that order. In fact, more than likely 2 of them might not even get drafted in top 10 at the position. So it stands to reason that there really should be more standard deviation in "Pre-draft" rankings by pundits. Or at least the appetite for it.

BUT

Nothing could be further from the truth. You move a name like Odunze out of the top 5? Tar and feathered.  That's a problem. If it's the same 5 names every time at the top, you know its never going to play out like that. 

 

I’m super guilty of this myself. Whenever I see a Lance Zeirlein (for instance) mock where players are up and down from the “consensus,” I just assume he trolling for clicks. 

[Paradis]

24 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

I’m super guilty of this myself. Whenever I see a Lance Zeirlein (for instance) mock where players are up and down from the “consensus,” I just assume he trolling for clicks. 

lol 

And that's fine, but instead of being like "ok, I'm listening--"  the community turns to each other; light the pyre, we've got one.

[maury77]

5 hours ago, Paradis said:

So these are condensed plays in game, but works for this conversation-- He's fast, shakes DBs, great concentration & ball tracking, strong hands -- all of it is exceptional and deserving of the WR2 label I've come to agree with. Coleman/Odunze & Co aren't as complete...

but look how often Daniels made it easy for him; especially on late developing plays out of the slot; superb timing/placement. He FEASTED on picking apart zone Defenses...  Nabers benefited a lot from that is my point.... Blowing by safeties on a free release is nice to watch, but it's not a special talent. Daniels puts the ball in the perfect spot a lot, AND on the right plays. The lack of forcing the ball/wasted throws is impressive. 

Anyway, I think he's worth a 1st, i just I think i felt compelled to pump the brakes a bit with the way he's getting ranked as top 5 overall in the draft. There's a few things missing i'd like to see - he doesn't climb the ladder and attack the ball in the air, and sometimes gets bullied by defenders. This is nitpicking i know, but Daniels put the ball in such a good spot, that Nabers rarely had to cross those bridges.

Auburn game has a couple reps that speak to this. Daniels wasn't able to throw over the defender on a couple plays/didn't have his best game, and I feel like Nabers' needs to jump/attack and play through the defender. Anyway... feels kind of trivial at this point, but that's me. I always feel compelled to be the "slow down now--" guy

 

He's not going to be a good contested catch guy and he body catches a little too much for my taste, but his ability to change speeds and absolutely blow by SEC guys is going to translate right away in the NFL IMO. I'm also a fan of his route running and the way he works his way back to the QB. 

[#27TheDominator]

3 hours ago, Grandy said:

Us winning out of a good QB pick is going to haunt us

An excellent QB will be available to us where we pick.  We will not select him.

[Paradis]

8 minutes ago, maury77 said:

He's not going to be a good contested catch guy and he body catches a little too much for my taste, but his ability to change speeds and absolutely blow by SEC guys is going to translate right away in the NFL IMO. I'm also a fan of his route running and the way he works his way back to the QB. 

no argument from me.

The aim of this wasn't to lobby that Nabers was not a good WR prospect, but more so that I felt Daniels' play needs to be recognized for a lot of what is driving the train here

lol even though I pushed back on being a "top 5" guy, its easy to see how he'll likely end up in ARZ/NYG who need production at the position badly.

[derp]

1 minute ago, Paradis said:

no argument from me.

The aim of this wasn't to lobby that Nabers was not a good WR prospect, but more so that I felt Daniels' play needs to be recognized for a lot of what is driving the train here

lol even though I pushed back on being a "top 5" guy, its easy to see how he'll likely end up in ARZ/NYG who need production at the position badly.

I think this is totally fair and a challenging component of evaluating guys at both positions (QB and WR). Nabers is very good, looks different with a QB who sprays it more, but the skill set also still probably translates nicely to the next level.