Breer article on Saleh

[jeremy2020]

17 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

So we had a terrible OL and terrible WRs (other than GW) but ZW was entirely to blame.  Got it!

Again, not sure what's confusing you. Never said that. Your words. I didn't mention WR at all. So either you're trying to gaslight or purposely misunderstanding.

I'm not sure why we have to keep going over this with you. Zach Wilson is awful. Yes, he wasn't put in a good position by the Jets, but he's also one of the worst QBs ever so your continually trying to push a narrative that Zach Wilson would be good only if not for the Jets is insane.

[bicketybam]

2 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Had we had Jacoby Brissett to send out there to replace Rodgers, there'd have been much less adversity, because we'd have been a playoff team.

SB here we come! 

[SomebodytoAnybody47]

Just now, Matt39 said:

No. Not when you knowingly have Wilson as the backup the whole way lol. Everyone knew the guy behind him was not an NFL player. What was the purpose of that? To have an alibi?

Not quite sure you understand the definition of adversity lol. 

 a state or instance of serious or continued difficulty or misfortune

Like I said - even if they had a top tier back up, that's still dealing with adversity when your STARTING QB goes down (along with other injuries).

[SomebodytoAnybody47]

4 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Had we had Jacoby Brissett to send out there to replace Rodgers, there'd have been much less adversity, because we'd have been a playoff team.

A bunch of us here were screaming all Summer to acquire a legit QB2, relegating Zach Wilson to the project QB3 role, so this wasn't exactly rocket surgery here.  It was an easy call to make but they didn't do it.

The QB room in Denver likely sucks but Sean Payton at least is demonstrating a potential blueprint to a what could BE an OK QB room:  Young draftee (Nix), vet backup who starts Week 1 (Stidham), developmental QB3 (Z. Wilson).  It's so easy to do yet the Jets didn't do it last year and it was the # 1 reason the season was tanked.

Ok - so it's adversity. But like, on a lesser scale. Cool.

[nj meadowlands]

The offseason, baby

[Matt39]

3 minutes ago, SomebodytoAnybody47 said:

Not quite sure you understand the definition of adversity lol. 

 a state or instance of serious or continued difficulty or misfortune

Like I said - even if they had a top tier back up, that's still dealing with adversity when your STARTING QB goes down (along with other injuries).

It was self sabotage, they created their own misfortune. Adversity is something completely out of your hands. With the information they had about Wilson, it was clear who he was. You don’t get to use your mistake and shield it as adversity and not get called out on your bullsh*t

[SomebodytoAnybody47]

Just now, Matt39 said:

It was self sabotage, they created their own misfortune. Adversity is something completely out of your hands. With the information they had about Wilson, it was clear who he was. You don’t get to use your mistake and shield it as adversity and not get called out on your bullsh*t

So Aaron Rodgers snapping his Achilles was in their hands? That was on the New York Jets? 

All the injuries along the OL? They planned those too?

I hope they change their plans this season! 

[bicketybam]

6 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

Adversity is something completely out of your hands.

[Warfish]

8 hours ago, Jet Nut said:

Rodgers injury wasn’t self inflicted.  

Correct.

And being better prepared isn't the same as a "rallying cry" either.

[Mogglez]

1 hour ago, SomebodytoAnybody47 said:

Pretty sure the adversity Saleh is talking about is all the injuries, your star QB going down immediately and your OL playing shuffle throughout the whole season. It would still be dealing with adversity even if he had a top tier back up. 
 

 

1 hour ago, Dcat said:

shhhh.  You are spoiling the agenda. 

 

1 hour ago, Jet Nut said:

No it’s like “I rode my motorcycle without a helmet, I’m surprised that when I fell that I gave myself brain damage, but my rehab experience will help me be smarter when riding a motorcycle in the future.” maybe this will learn something from this

 

1 hour ago, bicketybam said:

Or maybe you say, "sh*t, I'll never do that again" and change your behavior?

Guys, there’s no agenda.  You know me here.

The facts are the facts though.  We could have gone through the same “adversity” that Saleh is outlining as a silver lining without, effectively, throwing our season, as well as our “development plan” for Zach, away like an unwanted newborn.  

We barely missed the playoffs with Wilson, Boyle, and Siemian under center.  Tyrod Taylor on last year’s team gets us in.  Almost no doubt about it.  Players weren’t dejected throughout the year because of injuries to the whole team; they were dejected because after 4 plays they knew week-in and week-out that they had to be perfect in order to drag an awful QB to victory or else they were cooked.  That’s not a valuable lesson, lol.  That’s poor roster management and everyone in that locker room knew it.  Every team has injuries.  Not every team would still be a playoff contender with literally any other QB than the ones we trotted out there.  That’s how bad of a decision their “gamble” was.

[rex-n-effect]

3 hours ago, UntouchableCrew said:

I generally agree with this, although in defense of Saleh I don't think Nate Hackett was his plan. His plan was MLF who was undermined because we drafted Mormon Ryan Leaf.

But that's more of the same. He wanted to keep rolling with LaFleur although the offense was consistently flat any time Hall or GW didn't break loose for a big play. Saleh and LaFleur wanted to make ZW a traditional pocket passer, which he clearly isn't, and kept trying to force it despite watching it fail game after game. 

[Jetsfan80]

30 minutes ago, SomebodytoAnybody47 said:

Ok - so it's adversity. But like, on a lesser scale. Cool.

If you think a playoff season for the first time in 13 years could have been reasonably declared a season of "adversity" I dunno what to tell ya.  Maybe a season where we OVERCAME adversity, but not adversity itself.

[Mogglez]

21 minutes ago, SomebodytoAnybody47 said:

So Aaron Rodgers snapping his Achilles was in their hands? That was on the New York Jets? 

All the injuries along the OL? They planned those too?

I hope they change their plans this season! 

Rodgers was older and hurt the year prior.  No capable back was signed.

They trotted out the corpse of Duane Brown and Mekhi Becton, who was coming off of two season ending injuries and two awful training camps to be their bookend tackles.  AVT was coming off an ACL tear.  Laken Tomlinson and Conor McGovern were awful.  The only attempted upgrade was a rookie Joe Tippman.

I’m already glad they changed their plans this season because last year's was NOT it.

[Matt39]

3 minutes ago, Mogglez said:

Rodgers was older and hurt the year prior.  No capable back was signed.

They trotted out the corpse of Duane Brown and Mekhi Becton, who was coming off of two season ending injuries and two awful training camps to be their bookend tackles.  AVT was coming off an ACL tear.  Laken Tomlinson and Conor McGovern were awful.  The only attempted upgrade was a rookie Joe Tippman.

I’m already glad they changed their plans this season because last year's was NOT it.

With the line they at least tried different combinations. There was effort. There was no effort at QB. The whole team making up for one guy, that everyone knew was bad- how is that overcoming adversity? 

[Jetsfan80]

@TuscanyTile2, @Jet Nut, @SomebodytoAnybody47, @Dcat

We have @Mogglez on our side on this.  You lose this one.

[SomebodytoAnybody47]

4 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

With the line they at least tried different combinations. There was effort. There was no effort at QB. The whole team making up for one guy, that everyone knew was bad- how is that overcoming adversity? 

Ok at least you’re now admitting it WAS adversity. They just didn’t overcome it. Baby steps. 

[rangerous]

3 hours ago, slats said:

Prior to snap #4 last year, Rodgers hadn’t missed a start in five seasons. I was okay with Zach in the #2 role, staying involved in the game planning and hopefully learning something while Rodgers continued not to miss a start. It didn’t work out that way. There were marginal starting QBs available in free agency at that time, and -for whatever reason- they opted not to go that route. Was that Woody holding the purse? Or was it Douglas making the determination that the money spent for a one year rental wasn’t worth the investment at that point? I don’t know. I’m pretty sure it wasn’t Saleh, though. 

It may not have been saleh for not bringing in a back up but it certainly is on saleh for not starting siemien earlier or even thinking Boyle could do the job.  People pile on Hackett all he time but saleh is the guy in charge.  He saw Tomlinson get beat regularly and kept him in.  He kept using cook knowing the guy was washed up.  And he probably put the fear of god in the offense to not take chances.

[Jetsfan80]

6 minutes ago, SomebodytoAnybody47 said:

Ok at least you’re now admitting it WAS adversity. They just didn’t overcome it. Baby steps. 

Adversity as a result of one glaringly obvious, self-inflicted wound made with decisions at one position on the field (QB2) that could have been solved in several ways over a several month period.  Yes.

[bicketybam]

23 minutes ago, Mogglez said:

 

 

 

Guys, there’s no agenda.  You know me here.

The facts are the facts though.  We could have gone through the same “adversity” that Saleh is outlining as a silver lining without, effectively, throwing our season, as well as our “development plan” for Zach, away like an unwanted newborn.  

We barely missed the playoffs with Wilson, Boyle, and Siemian under center.  Tyrod Taylor on last year’s team gets us in.  Almost no doubt about it.  Players weren’t dejected throughout the year because of injuries to the whole team; they were dejected because after 4 plays they knew week-in and week-out that they had to be perfect in order to drag an awful QB to victory or else they were cooked.  That’s not a valuable lesson, lol.  That’s poor roster management and everyone in that locker room knew it.  Every team has injuries.  Not every team would still be a playoff contender with literally any other QB than the ones we trotted out there.  That’s how bad of a decision their “gamble” was.

You and I have a very different definition of "barely."

[SomebodytoAnybody47]

2 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Adversity Yes.

[Jetsfan80]

2 minutes ago, SomebodytoAnybody47 said:

[bicketybam]

Zach Wilson is the gift that keeps on giving! 

[TuscanyTile2]

37 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

@TuscanyTile2, @Jet Nut, @SomebodytoAnybody47, @Dcat

We have @Mogglez on our side on this.  You lose this one.

I'm a fan of Mogglez.  But what's the argument I lost here?  I like Tyrod Taylor and think there's a real chance he can get us into the playoffs (assuming he stays healthy), even if we need him for a fairly extended period of time.

Maybe the argument is that Tyrod could've gotten last year's Jets to the playoffs?  I really don't know about that.  Tbh, I'm not even certain AR8 could've done that with the crap the Jets were throwing out there (OL and WRs).  Probably he could have but who knows.  I still think he would've gotten injured at some point, even if that week 1 injury wasn't season-ending.  There's a very realistic chance it would've happened in Dallas in week 2 (if you remember how badly their defense overran our OL).

[Creepy Lurker]

46 minutes ago, Mogglez said:

Rodgers was older and hurt the year prior.  No capable back was signed.

They trotted out the corpse of Duane Brown and Mekhi Becton, who was coming off of two season ending injuries and two awful training camps to be their bookend tackles.  AVT was coming off an ACL tear.  Laken Tomlinson and Conor McGovern were awful.  The only attempted upgrade was a rookie Joe Tippman.

I’m already glad they changed their plans this season because last year's was NOT it.

How dare you judge JD’s vision of sustainable success and roster management. 

[Bowles Movement]

8 hours ago, Mogglez said:

 

 

 

 

 

 

Gonna be honest folks.  Matt and I fundamentally disagree on a lot…but he is spot on here.  If the gameplan was to truly let Wilson develop and not play in anything other than blowout wins, which seemed to be the case, they should have had someone like Jameis Winston or Tyrod Taylor locked in last year as QB2.  There’s a lot that this regime doesn’t get credit for that they deserve credit for, but they completely and utterly botched last season for no good reason that can be explained away, under any circumstance.

Clearly they over estimated Zac Wilson’s ability to successfully run the offense and underestimated Rodgers injury risk.

They probably figured if Zac played it would be well into the season and only for a game or two- enough time to see if the light turned on for him before the had to make the decision on his 5 th yr option.

Starting immediately and for the entire season couldn’t have been something they ever dreamed could happen.   Combine that with an O line that was missing pieces and playing poorly and it was the perfect storm.  At least they saw enough of Zac to make a decision on him.

[UntouchableCrew]

1 hour ago, rex-n-effect said:

But that's more of the same. He wanted to keep rolling with LaFleur although the offense was consistently flat any time Hall or GW didn't break loose for a big play. Saleh and LaFleur wanted to make ZW a traditional pocket passer, which he clearly isn't, and kept trying to force it despite watching it fail game after game. 

We diverge on this one — I’m firmly in the MLF was good young offensive mind running the modern NFLs best scheme and if Zach Wilson wasn't a mental midget mush he would have succeeded here. Don’t agree with your diagnosis of what they tried to do with Zach Wilson either. Every QB with a pulse who started under MLF performed fine. 

[neckdemon]

8 hours ago, T0mShane said:

An interesting thought is this: Saleh isn’t even a factor in how well the Jets do this season. He runs the defense, which Ulbrich can do just as well at this point. If Saleh quit in January and they elevated Ulbrich, are the Jets any worse off today? 

maybe we could get a new cool motto. something like "all beard, no brains"

[bicketybam]

8 minutes ago, neckdemon said:

maybe we could get a new cool motto. something like "all beard, no brains"

Let's kill the guy who couldn't win enough games with a QB he never wanted.

[TuscanyTile2]

2 hours ago, jeremy2020 said:

Again, not sure what's confusing you. Never said that. Your words. I didn't mention WR at all. So either you're trying to gaslight or purposely misunderstanding.

I'm not sure why we have to keep going over this with you. Zach Wilson is awful. Yes, he wasn't put in a good position by the Jets, but he's also one of the worst QBs ever so your continually trying to push a narrative that Zach Wilson would be good only if not for the Jets is insane.

Agreed you didn't mention WR.  I added it into the convo.  But I think JD did the same thing with his offseason acquisitions (signing Mike Williams, drafting Corley).

[TuscanyTile2]

3 minutes ago, bicketybam said:

Let's kill the guy who couldn't win enough games with a QB he never wanted.

"I wanted Patrick Mahomes".

[Trotter]

I have a proposal

is it possible to go one day - 24 hours without bringing up the name of the former 2nd overall pick at qb for the jets?

he is gone - can’t hurt us anymore

worth a try?

[T0mShane]

19 minutes ago, UntouchableCrew said:

We diverge on this one — I’m firmly in the MLF was good young offensive mind running the modern NFLs best scheme and if Zach Wilson was a mental midget mush he would have succeeded here. Don’t agree with your diagnosis of what they tried to do with Zach Wilson either. Every QB with a pulse who started under MLF performed fine. 

Crazy to think Saleh was forced to fire LaFleur because he hurt the feelings of three mental disasters in Zach, Becton, and Elijah Moore. Telling that he already had the Rams OC gig locked up before he handed in his Florham Park key fob

[Jetsfan80]

11 minutes ago, Trotter said:

I have a proposal

is it possible to go one day - 24 hours without bringing up the name of the former 2nd overall pick at qb for the jets?

he is gone - can’t hurt us anymore

worth a try?

He ruined 3 years of Jets football and was one of the biggest busts in NFL draft history.  He's not going away and will be talked about long after he's out of the league.

[slimjasi]

2 hours ago, Mogglez said:

 

 

 

Guys, there’s no agenda.  You know me here.

The facts are the facts though.  We could have gone through the same “adversity” that Saleh is outlining as a silver lining without, effectively, throwing our season, as well as our “development plan” for Zach, away like an unwanted newborn.  

We barely missed the playoffs with Wilson, Boyle, and Siemian under center.  Tyrod Taylor on last year’s team gets us in.  Almost no doubt about it.  Players weren’t dejected throughout the year because of injuries to the whole team; they were dejected because after 4 plays they knew week-in and week-out that they had to be perfect in order to drag an awful QB to victory or else they were cooked.  That’s not a valuable lesson, lol.  That’s poor roster management and everyone in that locker room knew it.  Every team has injuries.  Not every team would still be a playoff contender with literally any other QB than the ones we trotted out there.  That’s how bad of a decision their “gamble” was.

Saleh flat out admitted that they weren’t prepared at all for “the worst cast scenario” -  they had no legitimate contingency plan for Rodgers getting hurt. 

[slimjasi]

 

42 minutes ago, Bowles Movement said:

 

Starting immediately and for the entire season couldn’t have been something they ever dreamed could happen. 

Why not? It’s happened many times in NFL history and more than once to this franchise, in particular. 
 

I get that they didn’t expect it to happen, but to be completely and totally unprepared for the worst case scenario playing out seems like really bad management. 
 

What made it worse for us JNers was that there were numerous folks on here screaming about Zach Wilson being QB2 last summer - right around this time, actually. 
 

@Jetsfan80