Joe Douglas is not a "Terrible GM"

[Matt39]

26 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Moaning about good players because they were FAs, as if they weren’t scouted and brought in is plain stupid.

Douglas has been here 6 years. Point blank a good GM drafts more starters than he has. His record isn’t an accident. 

[Jet Nut]

16 hours ago, Matt39 said:

Douglas has been here 6 years. Point blank a good GM drafts more starters than he has. His record isn’t an accident. 

Really?  You’ve scoured all the top teams, tallied up all their draft picks vs FAs or trades.  Even if you’re right, you care how we got to a roster this loaded?  You bring up the Lions and who has the better roster?  The GMs job is to bring in talent to improve the roster and manage the cap.  Makes no difference how.  
And it’s his 5th season, first one was post FA and just before the draft.  And the 5th hasn’t started yet. 
His record sucks 3 years of his failed pick at QB kills him, we know.  Takes nothing away from the talent he’s assembled.  Deny or ignore it all you want.  

[Matt39]

3 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Really?  You’ve scoured all the top teams, tallied up all their draft picks vs FAs or trades.  Even if you’re right, you care how we got to a roster this loaded?  You bring up the Lions and who has the better roster?  
And it’s his 5th season, first one was post FA and just before the draft.  

I don’t think the roster is loaded. It’s the best Jets roster (if healthy) since 2015. Rodgers being vintage Rodgers would change things. 

[doitny]

49 minutes ago, Fantasy Island said:

Joe hasn’t gotten us to a winning record much less the playoffs in over 5 years.  He sucks.

 

28 minutes ago, OilfieldJet said:

Whoa, you lose me here, no Playoffs this year and JD to the door. Immediately. 6 strikes and you are out.

it cant be as black and white as that. there could be many reasons that are beyond his control that we dont make the playoffs.

we could lose the deciding game on a bad call. PI , roughing the passer etc...

could be a bad injury which i wont name to jinx us...

also need to see if more draft picks are hitting. if McDonald can at least match Huffs 10 sacks, if one of those RBs drafted this year make a impact. Corley plays well.... looks like Ruck or Yeboah will be TE2 so we should see what they really are with more game reps. things you all have to take into consideration too.

you cant argue that this team was a halfway decent QB away from the playoffs the last 2 years. thats not a bad GM. we know what a bad GM is just look at our last 2. do you trust Woody wont bring in Idzik 2.0 ? 

JD and Tanny were our 2 best GMs in the last 20 years and both were not brought here by Woody. 

Gase brought in JD, Parcells hire Tanny as a numbers guy who kept moving up to GM.

Idzik was hired by Woody, Mac was recommended by Casserly.

you wanna trust Woody to hire the right guy because you had to fired JD after a 8 or 9 win season without the playoffs?

[Jet Nut]

14 hours ago, Matt39 said:

I don’t think the roster is loaded. It’s the best Jets roster (if healthy) since 2015. Rodgers being vintage Rodgers would change things. 

I’m totally shocked.  
Rodgers doesn’t have to be vintage Rodgers.  
And there are 21 other starters on O & D, plus STs not named Rodgers who make up the roster that PFF ranks at the top of the NFL.  Agree with the top ranking, it still says a lot.  
Also didn’t see an asteric to indicate some players were brought in by way of FA, etc 

[Rich Thornburgh]

1 hour ago, Matt39 said:

Douglas has been here 6 years. Point blank a good GM drafts more starters than he has. His record isn’t an accident. 

Look if NY has no state income tax we trade for Tyreek Hill and Zach becomes Mahomes 2.0

[Wit]

He’s better than we have had in a while but he was terrible at getting a young QB and left tackle. Those two issues have killed the team. Most Zach though.


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[batman10023]

8 hours ago, Matt39 said:

Of course it’s QB. It’s other stuff too, but QB matters the most obviously. Joe did himself no favors not tackling the Zach disaster head on in year one. Everything the Jets did with Wilson was wrong, which in essence cancels everything else good he did out because of the refusal to move on. It was evident his first camp that he couldn’t  play. Then the Jets decided to hide him instead of admitting their mistake.

Wilson wet his pants in the green and white scrimmage his rookie year and they pretended it wasn’t happening. 

You try to have it both ways with Wilson and jd.   Pick a lane. Wasn’t woody the one who picked him according to your thousands of posts 

[Testaverde9819]

6 hours ago, 20andOut said:

Are you bitching about the drafting of Breece Hall????    WOW!!!!

 

You giving hall a second contact? Did he get hurt, which that position does a lot?? Yes WOW 

 

You don't draft rbs on day 1 or 2. You don't pay rbs ...

[Jets0712]

You giving hall a second contact? Did he get hurt, which that position does a lot?? Yes WOW 
 
You don't draft rbs on day 1 or 2. You don't pay rbs ...

I’d normally agree with this statement
But in this case…Nope. Hall just turned 23
Was a Steal in the 2nd rd. can run/catch quintessential 3 down back. Kid has it ALL
And it’s only the beginning…you pay him when it’s time!!!


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[Engblom31510]

I was part of the small camp that wanted to keep Darnald. I agree he wasn’t great, but I believed that if we would have gotten help on the line and got a playmaker, he would have been a serviceable game manager like Sanchez, but with a stronger arm. It could be because I live on the west coast and watched usc games, but hindsight being 20/20, I would definitely would have preferred Dam over Zach Wilson.

[Testaverde9819]

1 hour ago, Jets0712 said:

I’d normally agree with this statement
But in this case…Nope. Hall just turned 23
Was a Steal in the 2nd rd. can run/catch quintessential 3 down back. Kid has it ALL
And it’s only the beginning…you pay him when it’s time!!!


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Again, he got hurt.

 

So are you paying him? 

[Hael]

Suffice it to say Joe Douglas is highly regarded in league circles.  He transformed a team that was basically the laughing stock of the league, with jags at every position, and a host of back breaking terrible contracts into one of the best rosters in the entire league for the past two years (I would say top 10 last year, and top 5 this year).  He did that in basically three years after the 2020 season (a season where he was basically recruited late in the process and hamstrung with Gase and staff that wasn’t his own).  He had no offensive or defensive system in place and it was in the middle of a global epidemic.  

Now, a few years later, our team is loaded with talent at every position group, multiple young potential superstars, a good salary cap situation, strong veteran leadership and all of a sudden a place FAs are actually interested in.  

We went from one of the worst GMs in league history, to a guy that is definitely a top 10 GM and it shows.  I dont know what else you can want.  The wins will be here this year (and would have been there last year if we didn’t have the worst luck in sports).

[jgb]

42 minutes ago, Hael said:

Suffice it to say Joe Douglas is highly regarded in league circles.  He transformed a team that was basically the laughing stock of the league, with jags at every position, and a host of back breaking terrible contracts into one of the best rosters in the entire league for the past two years (I would say top 10 last year, and top 5 this year).  He did that in basically three years after the 2020 season (a season where he was basically recruited late in the process and hamstrung with Gase and staff that wasn’t his own).  He had no offensive or defensive system in place and it was in the middle of a global epidemic.  

Now, a few years later, our team is loaded with talent at every position group, multiple young potential superstars, a good salary cap situation, strong veteran leadership and all of a sudden a place FAs are actually interested in.  

We went from one of the worst GMs in league history, to a guy that is definitely a top 10 GM and it shows.  I dont know what else you can want.  The wins will be here this year (and would have been there last year if we didn’t have the worst luck in sports).

Agree with a lot of this but you can’t be a top 10 anything until you win.

Also, it wasn’t just bad luck that tanked our season last year. JD dropped the ball on getting in a legitimate backup QB. A mistake which he has learned from by bringing in Tyrod. So good on him for that.

[Jets0712]

Again, he got hurt.
 
So are you paying him? 

Yes he got hurt. His rookie year
Based on what I saw last year. I think he put it behind him. Players do get hurt/injured in football. Part of the game. And Yes I would pay him. And give him his 2nd contract


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[Bobby816]

Not many GMs that take over the 2nd worst team in the NFL start out good. Add that the QB he swung on missed. But in reality.... for someone like me who wanted Fields. Has he been a win? So what could he had done different there that would've won the fanbase over? Kept Darnold instead of drafting a QB? Fan base would've flipped about that.

 

So I think the question should be what would you had done different? In reality as well. Not in hindsight.

[20andOut]

6 hours ago, Testaverde9819 said:

You giving hall a second contact? Did he get hurt, which that position does a lot?? Yes WOW 

 

You don't draft rbs on day 1 or 2. You don't pay rbs ...

I'd be putting a contract in front of him first day its allowed (cant resignhim until after this year I believe) . Make him a top 3 RB in salary right under McCaffreys deal. 4-5 years with 2-3 guaranteed

[Scott Dierking]

3 hours ago, jgb said:

Agree with a lot of this but you can’t be a top 10 anything until you win.

 

https://forums.jetnation.com/topmembers/

[Testaverde9819]

2 hours ago, Jets0712 said:

Yes he got hurt. His rookie year
Based on what I saw last year. I think he put it behind him. Players do get hurt/injured in football. Part of the game. And Yes I would pay him. And give him his 2nd contract


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Rbs get hurt more often. Their careers are much shorter ...Which is why you don't draft them early or pay them a 2nd contract 

 

This has already been established over a decade ago. You are arguing against reality 

[Jets0712]

I'd be putting a contract in front of him first day its allowed (cant resignhim until after this year I believe) . Make him a top 3 RB in salary right under McCaffreys deal. 4-5 years with 2-3 guaranteed

Bingo


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[Testaverde9819]

23 minutes ago, 20andOut said:

I'd be putting a contract in front of him first day its allowed (cant resignhim until after this year I believe) . Make him a top 3 RB in salary right under McCaffreys deal. 4-5 years with 2-3 guaranteed

[Jets0712]

Rbs get hurt more often. Their careers are much shorter ...Which is why you don't draft them early or pay them a 2nd contract 
 
This has already been established over a decade ago. You are arguing against reality 

You are correct in theory. And I agree.
But not with this player. He is special & entering his 3rd year at 23. Not 26 or 27
Haven’t even scratched the surface of what he can/will be. Throw in the fact. He is our homegrown star. You make an exception
Rb $ is not breaking any bank


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[Testaverde9819]

3 minutes ago, Jets0712 said:

You are correct in theory. And I agree.
But not with this player. He is special & entering his 3rd year at 23. Not 26 or 27
Haven’t even scratched the surface of what he can/will be. Throw in the fact. He is our homegrown star. You make an exception
Rb $ is not breaking any bank


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[kevinc855]

He’s living off breece hall and garret w 

otherwise he’s been very average 

[CanadaSteve]

Joe Douglas is not a "Terrible GM"

Correct.  That was easy. 

[JetsFlyer]

20 hours ago, Guilhermezmc said:

The guy is living out of one draft that he had like 6 top 50 picks, he's ass.

he put us in a position to have all those top picks  fleeced a few teams  thats been his best ability  drafting is a probability game he has tilted his odds by accumulating top picks, you cant say well he had all these high picks .. he made them

yeah, his mid round grades are poor especially OL  and keep him away from QBs

[CanadaSteve]

1 hour ago, 20andOut said:

I'd be putting a contract in front of him first day its allowed (cant resignhim until after this year I believe) . Make him a top 3 RB in salary right under McCaffreys deal. 4-5 years with 2-3 guaranteed

IF Braelon Allen plays the first 4-5 weeks as he has been advertised, Breece Hall might be on the trade block so you don't have to pay him as a top 3 RB.  

[Warfish]

13 hours ago, Jet Nut said:

....the roster that PFF ranks at the top.  

Do you have a link to that ranking by any chance?

[Jet_Engine1]

2 minutes ago, JetsFlyer said:

he put us in a position to have all those top picks  fleeced a few teams  thats been his best ability  drafting is a probability game he has tilted his odds by accumulating top picks, you cant say well he had all these high picks .. he made them

yeah, his mid round grades are poor especially OL  and keep him away from QBs

I think it's hilarious how guys will say, "He ONLY has the 2022 Draft...". ONLY. 

The 2022 draft produced the OROY and DROY from the same class. Only one of the 3 First Round picks was actually the Jets own original Draft Picks (10 for Wilson was from the fleecing of Seattle, and they traded up to grab JJ). 

7 Selections, with 4 of them locked in as starters, 2 are significant role players (Ruckert and Clemons) and a swing/backup OT (Mitchell). But somehow those 7 Players make up the entire roster. Thats it.

LOL. 

 

Lets take a mistake JD made and really look at it... Bryce Huff. They scouted the guy, tabbed him as a priority UDFA and brought him in. He played for the Jets for 3 years, getting better every year... BUT he was never given a 3 Down full-time role. SO, he became annoyed and when offered a contract extension only signed a 1-year deal worth $4.3M in order to play it out and test FA. Recently, the Eagles made Huff the highest-paid non-quarterback undrafted player in NFL history. 

 

Douglas wasn't determining who plays, how much a player plays, or what ROLE the player would have. He found a player, the player was highly productive and effective, was offered an extension, but he didn't like how he was being utilized, so he signed with another team. Knowing that possibility existed, they drafted Will McDonald (A pick I understand but don't really like tbh).  So this specific example in a nutshell is a good exemplar for JD's tenure so far. Mixed Bag. As Dyatlov would say..."Not great, not terrible".

 

But he "only" has the '22 Draft... 

 

 

 

 

[Jet_Engine1]

21 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Do you have a link to that ranking by any chance?

[kmnj]

let us take a trip down memory lane shall we

Bill Parcells took over a 1-15 team and in a very short time had us in the AFC championship -so tired of people acting like Joe just got here and he needs more time to get his roster in place and a fast turn around cant happen. 

Also top roster  5? I would argue they are in a win now mode with a 40+ year old QB but I don't view them as having a top 5 roster for this year or the future. 

I would trade the jets team for the following rosters  for the Jets for this year and for the future especially considering the Jets are the only one with a 40 year old QB and not legit plan for going forward. 

Chiefs=no brainer

Niners=no brainer

Ravens I would rather have Lamar/Henry Flowers/Andrews over our core and they had a top 10 D 

Texans -at this point no brainer-they have an elite young QB, with tons of weapons top 15 defense on the rise 

Eagles-no brainer -Eagles get hate their roster especially offense is stacked-Hurts, Barkley Brown Smith and Dallas at TE-I think their coach sucks but the roster is beyond solid 

Lions- give them an edge-more stability at QB and more depth and I would take their offensive core over ours- top 20 defensive needs to improve but have one of the games brightest stars on D

Bears-no brainer to me at this point even though they have a rookie QB that could bust(I dont think he will) major talent on offense and a defense just outside of the top tean 

Packers-it all starts with love but they have lots of young guys with big upside and a fairly good d 

Dolphins -this one is close

Jags-this one is close but it comes down to having a younger QB with better upside 

I would rank the Jets around 10 

As far as head coaching goes (coaching is important and Joe hand picked the coach), I would take the head coach from every single one of the teams above over Saleh although the bears is a close call and and I think Eagles coach is a bad coach with a talented team   

 

 

[Claymation]

 

[Claymation]

 

[Jetsplayer21]

21 hours ago, Jet_Engine1 said:

I see the usual suspects just dropped their pre-loaded Bot-Responses without even reading a word of what I wrote.

 

Cool. Good talk. I'm suddenly reminded of my childhood going to Mass, when the congregation just mumbles the responsorial reply "Lord, hear our prayer..." without even listening to what their praying for. Like an automatic email reply... lol

The bar of jet gms have been set so low, a slightly below average gm at best, is sadly hailed as a savior. He has been here too long to be excused for record as gm. Rodgers is his savior, for now..

[Gaffneycatch81]

I’m a bit late joining this party, but I thought that was a good, thoughtful original post.

We can all argue about his hits or misses in the draft, this move he shouldn’t have made, this move he should have made, etc. But a GMs job is 1) to build a quality roster, and 2) to build that roster in a way that it can be sustained at a high level year after year. In other words, he should be judged in comparison with other GMs around the league and the rosters they have built.

He took over a team devoid of talent — bottom 5 in the league, easily — and the Jets now have a top 10 (many say top 5) roster on paper. If the season proves that out, that will be a check in column 1. Remember — he should be judged in comparison with the multitude of other GMs who mostly started with more talent on the roster they took over, and mostly now have less talent on the roster they have built. That kind of flip in the rankings is not easy to do, and by definition, that can’t happen with really bad GM-ing.

As for column 2 — whether that high level roster was built in a way that allows for sustainable success — I think there are some big question marks there. But only time will really tell.