Joe Douglas is not a "Terrible GM"

[BornJetsFan1983]

7 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Then why was Garrett Wilson the OROY if no one knew who he was?  Cmon.  

Has he been held back?  Absolutely.  100 %  But is he an “unknown”?  Insanity to try to make that argument.  You’re really arguing that you shouldn’t draft good players (like Lamb or Chase) because they’ll be held back?  Yikes.  

Every time you post you expose yourself as the Dunning-Kruger poster child on this board.  It’s uncanny.  

Try to stick to my argument, take it slow, reread what I said. Lamb and Chase have done great things but they would do no better and probably less than what Garrett has done. 

Everytime you try to argue with me your silly attacks and logic are pretty clear.

[BornJetsFan1983]

6 hours ago, GangGreened said:

He is going in round 1 or early round 2 of every fantasy draft. What are you even talking about?

I'm talking about real life football not fantasy, obviously.

Ceedee and Chase are seen as top wr at their position, Garret outside of New York fandom is seen for what he is a 1000 yard wr that did it with terrible QBs. We both know he has the talent and slot of fantasy players are betting he has the talent but until he does it he is not seen as their equal. 

The point was the roster had to get fixed so a player like Wilson could actually produce consistently in an offense. Had we drafted one of those guys they would not have had the seasons they have had become the rest of the team would not be able to support it( high scoring offense)

[BornJetsFan1983]

1 hour ago, mfmartin said:

 

This is satire, correct?


Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

 

"This is correct"

*Fixed your comment 

[jgb]

16 hours ago, NorthCoastJetsFan said:

I will never say that Zach was a good pick, but sometimes I wonder how much things would be different if Greg Knapp hadn't been killed in a bicycle accident before Zach's first training camp. We'll never know how much an excellent QB coach could have changed things.

It wouldn’t have changed anything. This isn’t a case of Zach just needing some refinement. He doesn’t have the psycho-emotional makeup to be a franchise quarterback. No amount of coaching would change that.

[CanadaSteve]

16 hours ago, Matt39 said:

Hall is the best player on the team. We’re letting him walk because a 4th round pick might be good?

Not what I said at all.  Let me say it again.  IF Allen comes out of the gate this year and plays like he is being touted he could, you could trade Hall next year and not have to sign him to a big contract.  You would essentially replace his production for an additional two years on the cheap.  

The key word is "IF."  

[OilfieldJet]

15 hours ago, BornJetsFan1983 said:

********Please pay attention*****

After enduring years of subpar leadership, the idea that Joe Douglas isn't a top-tier GM is not just misguided—it's outright offensive.

Joe Douglas is undoubtedly a top 5 GM in the league. 

Joe Douglas has laid the groundwork for our success. Now, the wins will come, and with them, the respect we’ve long deserved.

And if not he should be fired immediately.

[CanadaSteve]

16 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

The roster was miserably bad but....4-5 years?  Ehhhh.  Imagine how much quicker the roster turnaround would have been had we drafted 1-2 of these guys who were available to us in the 2020-21 classes instead of who we took instead:

Instead of Becton:

• OT Tristan Wirfs
• WR CeeDee Lamb - Adam Gase and @T0mShane wanted him here (granted, maybe we don't take Garrett Wilson two years later, but then again....why not?)

Instead of Zach Wilson (either at 2 or after a trade down):

• WR Ja'Marr Chase
• OT Penei Sewell
• WR Jaylen Waddle
• WR Devonta Smith
• TE Kyle Pitts

Yeah, yeah.  I know that "hindsight is 20/20".  But there were plenty of posters here on JN telling JD to draft these guys at the time.  A GM needs to have a bit more foresight than some JN draftniks, no?

Yeah, you kinda hit the nail on the head:  "hindsight is 20/20."  He took a BIG swing with Becton.  And there isn't a GM ever who isn't going to draft 'his' guy at QB.  Are they two big misses?  They sure are.  But JD has built a Jet team with more talent than we have seen in twenty years. 

It seems every year this team has a chance at drafting a franchise QB, we either get to choose from Zach Wilson, Justin Fields, etc., or we just flat out ignore the obvious pick (Jamal Adams, anyone)?  Even Trevor Lawrence, the 'can't miss' guy doesn't look like he will be much from that draft.  That was quite possibly one of the worst seasons to pick a QB.  

Outside of Joe Namath, this franchise has NEVER been able to draft at the position.    

[Jetsfan80]

28 minutes ago, CanadaSteve said:

Yeah, you kinda hit the nail on the head:  "hindsight is 20/20." 

Did you read the next sentence about how JN had better foresight at the time than the GM?

[Integrity28]

9 hours ago, Testaverde9819 said:

How did the Texans rebuild in one year?

You will be told “they hit the lotto at QB”, but that’s not actually the answer. They put the right people in charge and have aggressively pursued one good move after another, while drafting more good players.

Our GM has a terrible hit rate on draft picks in total, and his “moves” are mostly atrocious and/or laughable.

[NorthCoastJetsFan]

9 hours ago, Testaverde9819 said:

How did the Texans rebuild in one year?

The Texans weren't nearly as bad as the Jets were in 2019. Their offense was bad but their defense was ok.

[bicketybam]

8 minutes ago, Integrity28 said:

You will be told “they hit the lotto at QB”, but that’s not actually the answer. They put the right people in charge and have aggressively pursued one good move after another, while drafting more good players.

Our GM has a terrible hit rate on draft picks in total, and his “moves” are mostly atrocious and/or laughable.

The Jets beat the dog piss out of the Texans last year....with Zach Wilson at QB 😅

[Integrity28]

5 minutes ago, bicketybam said:

The Jets beat the dog piss out of the Texans last year....with Zach Wilson at QB 😅

I bet you think you’re making a point.

[kmnj]

19 hours ago, NorthCoastJetsFan said:

I think that people either weren't aware or have forgotten how legendarily bad  that 2019 team was .Anybody with half a brain knew that it would take 4 or 5 years to get to a competitive level.

I will never say that Zach was a good pick, but sometimes I wonder how much things would be different if Greg Knapp hadn't been killed in a bicycle accident before Zach's first training camp. We'll never know how much an excellent QB coach could have changed things.

this is such trash 

parcells took a 1-15 team to the afc championship

other teams in the league rebuild better and faster and they are set up for the future at QB not dependent on a 40 year old qb coming off a major injury 

Joes rebuild has not yielded results and we are not set up once again at the most important position in football

only in jets bizzarro world is a guy that is about 40 games under 500 a top 5 gm as some have posted-yeah sure Joe is better than 

the chiefs gm, the niners gm the ravens gm the texans gm, the lions gm the eagles gm and I can include more as well

 

 

 

 

 

[Claymation]

3 minutes ago, kmnj said:

this is such trash 

parcells took a 1-15 team to the afc championship

other teams in the league rebuild better and faster and they are set up for the future at QB not dependent on a 40 year old qb coming off a major injury 

Joes rebuild has not yielded results and we are not set up once again at the most important position in football

only in jets bizzarro world is a guy that is about 40 games under 500 a top 5 gm as some have posted-yeah sure Joe is better than 

the chiefs gm, the niners gm the ravens gm the texans gm, the lions gm the eagles gm and I can include more as well

 

 

 

 

 

I don't think anyone is going to argue that Parcells is a better coach than Saleh. Curious, what happened when to the Jets when Vinny ruptured his Achilles?

[bicketybam]

6 minutes ago, Integrity28 said:

I bet you think you’re making a point.

The Giants made the post season 2 years ago and won a game. Now look a them. I'm not sold on the Texans. Let's see what they do this year.

[bicketybam]

6 minutes ago, kmnj said:

the chiefs gm, the niners gm the ravens gm the texans gm, the lions gm the eagles gm and I can include more as well

[kmnj]

23 minutes ago, Claymation said:

I don't think anyone is going to argue that Parcells is a better coach than Saleh. Curious, what happened when to the Jets when Vinny ruptured his Achilles?

they started 1-6 then went on a run to finish 8-8(8 wins is more than Joes team has achieved even in a shorter season no less)l -Parcells admitted if he would have gone to Lucas earlier the team probably goes to the playoffs 

 

[bicketybam]

5 minutes ago, kmnj said:

they started 1-6 then went on a run to finish 8-8(8 wins is more than Joes team has achieved even in a shorter season no less)l -Parcells admitted if he would have gone to Lucas earlier the team probably goes to the playoffs 

 

The BP era resulted in one playoff appearance. Yippee!

[Jet_Engine1]

59 minutes ago, Integrity28 said:

You will be told “they hit the lotto at QB”, but that’s not actually the answer. They put the right people in charge and have aggressively pursued one good move after another, while drafting more good players.

Our GM has a terrible hit rate on draft picks in total, and his “moves” are mostly atrocious and/or laughable.

Or.... they were saved by Carolina picking the wrong guy. Or that.

[kmnj]

30 minutes ago, bicketybam said:

The Giants made the post season 2 years ago and won a game. Now look a them. I'm not sold on the Texans. Let's see what they do this year.

lol you sniff lots of glue today ?

Texans  have a stud QB who had one of the best rookie seasons ever, a trio great wrs , one of the best tackles in football (very good o line) very good tight ends and  a proven RB -their defense was a top 15 d and improved over the off season and they have a great young coach

 

 

 

 

[kmnj]

6 minutes ago, bicketybam said:

The BP era resulted in one playoff appearance. Yippee!

 

Yippee indeed you make it sound like the era was 20 years-in his short stint we got to the AFC championship game which is the second best season ever in the Jets franchise and it was a time of HOPE and FUN and it was even greater to watch as it erased the terrible 1-15 taste that we had experienced 

imagine if this year the Jets got to the AFC championship game-I am pretty sure folks would want to build statues of Joe all over the place- and would certainly be saying YIPPEE 

I have attended 300 + games over the years since a kid-do you know how many playoff games I was able to seee?

 

 

[bicketybam]

Just now, kmnj said:

 

Yippee indeed you make it sound like the era was 20 years-in his short stint we got to the AFC championship game which is the second best season ever in the Jets franchise and it was a time of HOPE and FUN and it was even greater to watch as it erased the terrible 1-15 taste that we had experienced 

imagine if this year the Jets got to the AFC championship game-I am pretty sure folks would want to build statues of Joe all over the place- and would certainly be saying YIPPEE 

I have attended 300 + games over the years since a kid-do you know how many playoff games I was able to seee?

 

 

Did you forget we went to back to back AFC Championship games after Parcells' mighty achievement? 

BP got us to one AFCCG, coached one more season and then packed his sh*t and left town. What a time for hope!

[UntouchableCrew]

I understand not wanting to crown Joe Douglas until the Jets actually win something. Makes total sense.

But there's also this weird, self loathing denial from a lot of posters here about the fact that pretty much everyone thinks this Jets roster is really talented.

Like sure Douglas has had bad moves. Every GM has bad moves. But if you look at the roster when he took over vs. the roster now virtually every football analyst on the planet will tell you we went from a team with very little talent at all to one of the more talented rosters in the NFL.

[varjet]

• JD's 2022 was generally great.  We all know that. 
• I like to redraft by looking at players taken within a few picks after ours.   These teams generally operate with the same information-it is not fair to say that the Jets should have taken Puka Nucua in the first round.  But when you see the players picked immediately after the Jets pick, I think that is fair game.
• I continue to hate the WMcDIV pick.   We had Huff.  We still had to trade for Reddick.  WRs go for big money, as to OTs. We should have never switched picks with GM and taken Broderick Jones, or taken one of the WRs (JSN, Addison, Johnson, Flowers) or Dalton Kincaid, or Anton Johnson.  Some of those players could have been taken with a trade down.
• In the 2024 draft, I like Olu Fashanu.  He may be a better player than Broderick Jones (they had identical pre draft scores).   But if Bo Nix is a real NFL QB, he was the pick when the Jets picked.  If this is AR8's last year, Nix may have been able to step in.  Teams that do not have a 3-5 year QB plan should not be passing on potential starting QBs in the draft.  
  • Nix was the antithesis of Zach Wilson.   Lots of starting experience against real opponents.   He was a cheap potential starting QB where he was picked.  

[JetsFlyer]

GM ranking:

Roster,

QB, 

Coaching

Cap

Owner control

Depth

[Jetsplayer21]

2 hours ago, Integrity28 said:

You will be told “they hit the lotto at QB”, but that’s not actually the answer. They put the right people in charge and have aggressively pursued one good move after another, while drafting more good players.

Our GM has a terrible hit rate on draft picks in total, and his “moves” are mostly atrocious and/or laughable.

Lot of young qbs drafted top of draft come into bad management of rosters. Texas had a very solid OL. Doesn’t happen often that a team is so bad to be picking top of draft, yet have a very good OL. Sanchez came in as a rookie with very solid OL. While a great OL and running came carried him first 2 years, he was nowhere near the talent of Stroud. Imagine a qb like Stroud on jets in 09/10.. It’s amazing jets got to back to back AFC championships with Sanchez, imagine if we had a good qb.

[Claymation]

1 hour ago, kmnj said:

they started 1-6 then went on a run to finish 8-8(8 wins is more than Joes team has achieved even in a shorter season no less)l -Parcells admitted if he would have gone to Lucas earlier the team probably goes to the playoffs 

 

Again Parcells is a better HC than Saleh. But even back then, it was a QB league.

[kmnj]

when joe came to the jets -I keep hearing he had no talent on offense-well that offense he was handed out produced his offense literally ever year of his tenure so far

Sam, Bell, Crowder, Robby  -their offensive production has not been exceeded during Joes entire tenure

Joe has had terrible QB production -worse than Sam

Rb-joe improved this as sadly bell was not the pitt bell 

Wrs-Joe has a true WR1 with Wilson but he has not YET put together a better tandem than Robby and Crowder in terms of production on the field and he drafted Mims, signed perriman davis and lazzard lol 

overall production Joes offense he was handed out performed his offense every single year-you can blame that on the QB but Joe traded Sam and busted out with Wilson

now the million dollar question

will Arod, Breece Wilson Williams actually outproduce Sam Bell Crowder Robby?

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Claymation]

1 minute ago, kmnj said:

when joe came to the jets -I keep hearing he had no talent on offense-well that offense he was handed out produced his offense literally ever year of his tenure so far

Sam, Bell, Crowder, Robby  -their offensive production has not been exceeded during Joes entire tenure

Joe has had terrible QB production -worse than Sam

Rb-joe improved this as sadly bell was not the pitt bell 

Wrs-Joe has a true WR1 with Wilson but he has not YET put together a better tandem than Robby and Crowder in terms of production on the field and he drafted Mims, signed perriman davis and lazzard lol 

overall production Joes offense he was handed out performed his offense every single year-you can blame that on the QB but Joe traded Sam and busted out with Wilson

now the million dollar question

will Arod, Breece Wilson Williams actually outproduce Sam Bell Crowder Robby?

 

 

 

 

 

 

Are suggesting they won't?

[kmnj]

53 minutes ago, Claymation said:

Are suggesting they won't?

Heading into Joes year 6 -his offense literally has not out produced the offense he was handed when he took the job and people keep saying he was  handed a team with "little to no talent".  He also used two first rounders that busted out and a second rounder that busted on this offense of his. 

In answer to your question , I honestly am not sure. I hope the current core  FINALLY outperforms the one he was handed  but I not sure they will-Arod is old and coming off a major injury and has 3 games in a 10 day span -Williams is coming off  a major injury 

I think it was a mistake to go with a 40 year old QB as part of a "rebuild" and said it went they went after him -you don't re build around an old QB -so far this approach has failed- Joe has this year to make it work or he is toast and he should be toast.

What could have Joe done different-he could have kept Sam traded the pick for a haul (something many said to do), gone after Carr and drafted a QB to groom, or go hard after Lamar when he was out there.

 

 

 

 

[mfmartin]

I understand not wanting to crown Joe Douglas until the Jets actually win something. Makes total sense.
But there's also this weird, self loathing denial from a lot of posters here about the fact that pretty much everyone thinks this Jets roster is really talented.
Like sure Douglas has had bad moves. Every GM has bad moves. But if you look at the roster when he took over vs. the roster now virtually every football analyst on the planet will tell you we went from a team with very little talent at all to one of the more talented rosters in the NFL.

He also had a metric ton of resources.


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[mfmartin]

GM ranking:
Roster,
QB, 
Coaching
Cap
Owner control
Depth

Where does his winning percentage fit in there?


Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

[Warfish]

4 hours ago, CanadaSteve said:

Not what I said at all.  Let me say it again.  IF Allen comes out of the gate this year and plays like he is being touted he could, you could trade Hall next year and not have to sign him to a big contract.  You would essentially replace his production for an additional two years on the cheap.  

The key word is "IF."  

Could?  Sure, maybe.

Would?  Not me.

Whomever our post-Rodgers-Era QB will be, he'll be better off with the best O-Line and RB's he can get.

[Warfish]

Also, I keep thinking I dislike this thread title.....

It's not about being "terrible" or not.

It's about being GOOD.  Better yet, GREAT.

Is Joe Douglas a GREAT GM?  If yes, why?

If he isn't great, or even very good, why should we retain him?  Are we accepting of "average" or worse?

So flip the script here, is Joe Douglas a GREAT GM, and is yes, why?  Start there.

[slimjasi]

21 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

The roster was miserably bad but....4-5 years?  Ehhhh.  Imagine how much quicker the roster turnaround would have been had we drafted 1-2 of these guys who were available to us in the 2020-21 classes instead of who we took instead:

Instead of Becton:

• OT Tristan Wirfs
• WR CeeDee Lamb - Adam Gase and @T0mShane wanted him here (granted, maybe we don't take Garrett Wilson two years later, but then again....why not?)

Instead of Zach Wilson (either at 2 or after a trade down):

• WR Ja'Marr Chase
• OT Penei Sewell
• WR Jaylen Waddle
• WR Devonta Smith
• TE Kyle Pitts

Yeah, yeah.  I know that "hindsight is 20/20".  But there were plenty of posters here on JN telling JD to draft these guys at the time.  A GM needs to have a bit more foresight than some JN draftniks, no?

Yea, the 4-5 years is too long. 

You highlighted the two big misses: Zach and Becton. To me, it's basically all about those two decisions. Taking Wirfs and Chase, or maybe  Lamb and Sewell, would have been huge. Having said that, I'm not sure what we would have done about QB in either scenario. An interesting what if, for sure