2006 Jets draft - a year later

[Sperm Edwards]

I was going to put this just as a regular reply to someone saying our 2006 draft was "great" which I disagreed with. It looks better on paper because they had 2 first-rounders, one of them being the 4th overall pick. I think they had an 'ok' draft, but certainly not a great one:

#4 overall: D'Brick: I think will he be an outstanding pass blocker but will never be a dominating run-blocker. A player picked so high (in such a deep draft) should have no weaknesses in his game. But it was understandable with only Adrian Jones on the team at left tackle & with the Jets losing two QB's for the season in '05. With the #4 pick, you should get the best LT in the draft, not the 2nd-best one. At least they didn't pick a TE or a safety. Pick = B+

#29 overall: Mangold: Great pick at an area of desperate & immediate need. At the time we thought we'd have Teague to play for a year but it turned out we didn't even have that. Was good for any center, outstanding for a rookie, & will be great at everything before long. Pick = A+

#35 overall: traded with Washington. Got a 2nd-rounder in the '07 draft, which we turned into the #63 pick and Thomas Jones. In the end, the trade was #35 for Kellen Clemens, Thomas Jones, and the #63 pick this year. Trade = A+

#49 overall: Clemens: too early to truly gauge. At the time all we had was Patrick Ramsey and a rehabbing Chad Pennington. Personally, I think with either Cutler or Leinart (who I think is ill-suited for the Meadowlands in the winter) on the board, they could have taken a QB at #4 and stayed at #35 to take McNeill. Taking the possible immediate need at QB into consideration, it's understandable taking a QB here even if he didn't do anything as a rookie. But if it was so important, it should have been addressed earlier. In this draft, you could expect an immediate starter at this slot; Clemens took half a season to move over career flop Patrick Ramsey from #3 to #2 on the depth chart. Also cost us a 5th-rounder I think. Next pick was Marcus McNeill, a road-grader who hadn't given up a sack since he gave up 1 in his freshman year; the only left tackle make the pro-bowl as a rookie in NFL history. And he WAS supposed to be THAT good. Whether Minnesota also had their eye on Clemens or not is irrelevant; this was a reach. Pick = C+

#71 overall: traded with Philadelphia. The Jets were reportedly all set to grab Chris Gocong for OLB opposite Bryan Thomas. Gocong "knew" the Jets would take him right then & there. Then the Jets traded down 5 spots with Philly to recoup the lost pick we used to move up a few spots for Clemens. They got a little too cute. Philly ended up taking Gocong (who busted his knee in pre-season; can't assume the same would have happened if we took him). We moved down 5 slots to #76 and missed out on Gocong. Could have traded up a bit to grab Youboty or Eric Winston, both of whom had first-round grades. Trade = F

#76 overall: Schlegel: Let's not jerk off Tannenbaum too much. This guy had a 5th-6th round grade. Taking him this early was a MAJOR reach. Good head on his shoulders & supposed to be a sure tackler. Certainly has the size to be a 3-4 ILB. But he runs like a pregnant hippo & as such couldn't even be useful on special teams. He may turn into something, but will never make this pick better since we could have still drafted him much, much later and taken a better talent here than we picked up in round 5 when we took Pociask. Look at it this way: Jason Pociask or any of the following: Jerious Norwood, Max Jean-Gilles, Gabe Watson, Jason Hatcher, Ko Simpson, Darnell Bing. Pick = F

#97 overall: E.Smith: also a reach. Most had him slotted to get picked no earlier than round 6. Others had him going to some team as an undrafted free agent. However good he looked at times late in the season, it does not erase that, like Schlegel, we could have had him much later and taken someone else here. 3 of the next 4 picks would go: Jean-Gilles, Watson, and Simpson; all carrying no worse than high 2nd-round grades, as well as Jonathan Scott and Ryan O'Callaghan (who surprisingly didn't get picked until early round 5), who also carried at least 2nd-round grades. Pick = C because of the poor value.

#103 overall: B.Smith: Let me start off by saying I love this player. He's exciting. He gives Schottenheimer a toy that most teams don't have. He can take handoffs, he can be a receiver, and he can even line up behind center & pass the ball. There were more polished receivers on the board (Demetrius Williams, etc) who didn't need to learn the position. But he's got a lot of upside and is just a playmaker. Pick = B+

#117 overall: Washington: Also an exciting player. Probably dropped a bit in the draft because of FSU's suckiness on their OL in '05. But he has legit 4.4 speed that doesn't turn into 4.7 speed with pads on like many. With the acquisition of Thomas Jones, it seems the staff sees him as a 3rd-down back. But like Brad Smith, he's definitely a playmaker. But also like playmakers in this mold (a poor man's - ok a very, very poor-man's - Barry Sanders), he'll gain nothing, nothing, nothing, and then 15-20. An outstanding receiver out of the backfield & isn't a complete turnstile in pass protection. Won the Miami game by himself with that 62-yd scamper into the endzone. And the ability to do that is what he brings to the table. If all we get out of him is an outstanding 3rd-down back who can flll in as the main HB for breathers or due to starter's injury, it's still good use of a mid-4th-round pick, and infinitely more valuable that Herm Edwards (which is how we acquired the pick in the first place). Pick = A-

There were some moves to go up/down a little that I don't remember off the top of my head, but the remaining picks were:

#150 overall: Pociask: I liked this guy when I read about him. When this TE/FB hybrid came to the team & said "I LOVE blocking," something we desperately needed with the departure of Becht & Sowell, it warmed me on the pick. Like a couple of others like Schlegel, was captain of his team. Busted up his knee in pre-season & didn't play as a rookie. Shame. However, this was yet another player who many thought wouldn't even get drafted. And let's not lie. Maybe 3 people who post here (at best) had even heard of him when the Jets made him their 5th-round pick. Pick = D

#189 overall: D.Coleman: at this point in the draft, you're almost happy with a player who is not immediately relegated to the practice squad. Coleman actually started a game I think. That's partly to his credit, and partly to the sorry-ass players we had at corner. Could still be something. Who knows really. Pick = B-

#220 overall: Titus Adams: didn't make the team. We threw him on the practice squad & the Giants grabbed him. Loosely fit the mold as a 3-4 DE I guess at 6'4/305. Though at 305 usually you're looking at someone 6'5-6'6 for end, that may be splitting hairs. Clearly this was a bust pick for us, as we don't have the player anymore. I can't really fault them for not taking Colston, as pretty much no one knew about him or he wouldn't have been the 4th-last pick in the whole draft. Still, many think that we should have had at least the inside scoop on him, coming from Hofstra. Anyway, we have nothing to show for this pick. Not even a 3rd-stringer. Pick = F

Overall: C+/B-

They got a few good players, and one great one. But the poor use of three day one picks - particularly in round 3 where we got two players with no better than a 5th-6th round grade, that really kills it for me. In the end, we have two full-time starters (that we got with our two first-round pickss). After that, with the remaining 7 picks we got "hopeful" future starters at QB and SS. The rest of the draft are career backup players.

[pjam76]

I agree with alot of what you said, but Washington becomes a different grade now that TJ is in town. If Washington rarely plays or if he's dealt, then that pick was essentially a waste.

As far as DBrick. He's ok. I was not that impressed with him. plain and simple. If he were a RB or QB, people would be calling him a bust. He did some things nice, but at this point, he's an avg offensive lineman, nothing more. For me, if you are the 4th pick in the draft, you have to be better than Avg or you are a bust. But there is time. He can improve and show more things this year, but who knows. I won' t give the guy a good grade cause he might improve. Cause you never know. He could get worse too.

The draft was ok last season, nothing more. They got a great player in Mangold, but other then that, it was mostly role players. Role players are nice if you have a Manning, Brady, Ray Lewis, Rodney Harrison, Teddy Bruschi and so on type of players who will demand great play from role players. The problem with the Jets is they don't have anybody like that, at least not yet.

I hope they find more talented players in this draft, because unlike many people, I'm not sold on the Front Office yet. They did an ok job, nothing special. THe coaching staff last year did a great job to me. Because most of the players who made a difference were players another regime drafted or traded for.

[Barton]

It can certainly be a great draft if we let these players develop and get a chance to play.

I for one, was very impressed with Eric Smith last year. No doubt in my mind, he is the starter in 2007 and an upgrade from Erik Coleman.

If Clemens pans out, than this draft is gold.

[124]

It will be interesting to see what Pociask becomes.

Titus Adams & Anthony Schlegel however obviously were 2 terrible selections.

[BoomBoomMancini]

This draft all hinges on Clemens.

If he can play it was a very good draft

If he can't play our front office will be second guessed for years(could have had Cutler and McNeil).

[MTJ06]

Sperm,

In your opinion How many players does a team need to get from a draft in order for it to be deemed successful?

[MasonJet]

It will be interesting to see what Pociask becomes.

Titus Adams & Anthony Schlegel however obviously were 2 terrible selections.

It's hard to call a 7th round pick a "terrible" pick. At this point its even more of a crapshoot than the rest of the draft, and you just hope to get a guy who can actually make the roster.

However, Ferguson was absolutely the right pick to make at 4. He is going to be a stud and he and Mangold will anchor this line for many years.

[addage]

I don't have too much problem with the analysis although Brick's is a much better player than his writeup.

The grade for Clemens is incomplete. We don't know yet.

But most importantly, you grade a draft against how effectively other teams drafted. If you applied these standards to the drafts of each of the other NFL teams (which I lack the patience to do), I would guess that at least 2/3 of the performed less well than Tangini did.

If Mr. T can do as well this year as he did last year, then the Jets are off and flying in terms of becoming an elite franchise. It's the old saw about two guys running from a bear. You don't have to be faster than the bear, just faster than your buddy.

[R44]

#97 overall: E.Smith: also a reach. Most had him slotted to get picked no earlier than round 6. Others had him going to some team as an undrafted free agent. However good he looked at times late in the season, it does not erase that, like Schlegel, we could have had him much later and taken someone else here. 3 of the next 4 picks would go: Jean-Gilles, Watson, and Simpson; all carrying no worse than high 2nd-round grades, as well as Jonathan Scott and Ryan O'Callaghan (who surprisingly didn't get picked until early round 5), who also carried at least 2nd-round grades. Pick = C because of the poor value.

Nice job, SE.....I had Smith going to the Carolina Panthers in the early part of round 4 before the last draft......Rick Gosselin -- perhaps the most respected football writer in America -- had him as a 3rd round pick......Gil Brandt wasn't far behind.

I think this is a case of perception becoming reality: So many posters have said he was "reach", that we take it as a fact that he was, in fact, a "reach".....following the draft daily at DD.com for several years I can tell you Smith was more highly regarded by NFL types than he was on message boards in cyberspace......NFL types liked him, because he was among the top performing safeties at the '06 Combine in everything, except 40 time....after he improved his 40's at Pro Day, he was set to be drafted higher than most fans thought he would/could be

For the record, I do believe Schlegel was a bit of a "reach', not Smith.

[jetfan4hire]

Anytime you can get four rookies that started for you, and two of which are probably going to be cornerstone players in your offense, I dont see how you can regard this as anything other than a great draft. Nobody gets all the picks right, so I think it has to be judged that way.

[JetCane]

Great job, Sperm, but I would give the Clemens pick an incomplete.

He could be a bust and never see the field, or he could become a Pro Bowl player in a couple of years- or something in between. The jury is still out and I dont see how the pick could even merit a C+ at this point. I'm basically in agreement with everything else you wrote, and that assumes that Eric smith improves this year, because he showed some good stuff and some not so good stuff last season.

[SeniorFlaJet]

Spermy, do you think with a little more weight Dbrick could become a better blocker?

also

I think Drew Coleman started the Chicago game and screwed up a tackle that

led to a TD. He got so far into Manginni's dog house after that he had to dig up

to get into the dog house.

[Gibbon]

I think your ratings are fair as far as they go. You and I have sparred over the Schlegel pick before. But here's the problem with rating drafts in this way after only one season: because so little time has passed you cant really tell how valuable a player is going to be on the field after one season.

Because of this, draft review experts like yourself talk about value (theres even a retarded numeric value system that as far as I know teams only look at when they are trading picks for a pick -- not picks for a player) and tear down picks you dont like by saying the player picked was a bad value at that position and that better value might have been gotten from another pick. Often this is based on the assumption that the player that was picked too high might have been there in a later round (how exactly do you guarantee that? If the Jets were interested in that player and picked that player higher than others expected you can be pretty sure that they had reason to believe that someone behind them was thinking of taking the player they wanted.) Or, it is based on a one season impact evaluation of players the team could have had instead. All of this involves taking a view of the draft that isolates its effectiveness to one season when in reality teams draft for the future as much as they draft for present needs.

If you want to really evalute the impact of any draft on the season that immediatly follows it all you have to do is answer these three questions honestly:

1. As a group did the players who were drafted contribute to the winning of individual games and to a winning season?

2. Can you be certain that any of the players that the team could have drafted but didnt would have contributed directly to winning more individual games and a better winning percentage on the season?

3. Did the FO use its picks to fill future needs as well as present needs with solid, high character players, from good, winning programs?

In the Jets case I think the answers are 1) yes 2) no 3) yes.

All of your "bad value at that spot" analysis of 3rd, 4th, and 5th round picks falls to pieces if any of those guys become regular contributors to the teams success. If Schlegel or Smith start 10 games on D next year, make plays, and then go on to have 2 more season in which they contributed to a successful Jets team do you really think anyone is gonna give a good goddamn if the Jets could have waited one more round to pick them?

[Jetlag]

I agree with a lot of your post. My main disagreement is you're not recognizing the fact that it's much easier now to say "We could have taken a QB and then McNeil in the 2nd."

That's nonsense because;

A) McNeil wasn't supposed to leave the first round so it's hard to plan as if he would.

The reason he dropped so far was because of a knee problem and who's to say he doesn't blow it out next year.

[shutout]

I agree with a lot of your post. My main disagreement is you're not recognizing the fact that it's much easier now to say "We could have taken a QB and then McNeil in the 2nd."

That's nonsense because;

A) McNeil wasn't supposed to leave the first round so it's hard to plan as if he would.

The reason he dropped so far was because of a knee problem and who's to say he doesn't blow it out next year.

was it a knee? I was under the impression there was some sort of back condition. Either way,your first comment is right as I don't remember too many mock drafts that didn't have Mcneill going to the Cowboys with their pick.

[Smizzy]

was it a knee? I was under the impression there was some sort of back condition. Either way,your first comment is right as I don't remember too many mock drafts that didn't have Mcneill going to the Cowboys with their pick.

I'm pretty sure it was a bad back.

[Pragmatic Bus]

dbrick has no weakness in his game he is a sound player but you have to remember he's only a rookie. and he has a big frame to build on. i would rather he develop slowly but soundly than gain a bunch of lard and start lookin like adrian jones out there

[Pragmatic Bus]

chargers are lucky that back problem didn't affect them this year. but as he grows a back problem always give players a tough time playing a really physical position. dbrick is a finess tackle right now but he will slowly develope into a great LT

[#27TheDominator]

It will be interesting to see what Pociask becomes.

Titus Adams & Anthony Schlegel however obviously were 2 terrible selections.

Adams wasn't a terrible selection. As Sperm says, a 6th round pick is usually headed to the practice squad. Adams was on the practice squad and was presumably a project for NT. The Giants signed him off the practice squad because they had injuries and thought he was worth a roster spot. It's not like he's out of the league.

[PeterNorth09]

4. D'Brickashaw Ferguson - Not the best OT in last year's draft and there were a ton of other good to excellent linemen that could have been had in the second round and after. Marcus McNeill is better than Ferguson and it isn't even close. We passed up two franchise QB's, Leinart and Cutler, for an undersized finesse linemen who can't run-block. Grade: C

29. Nick Mangold - The most successful pick in our draft last year. Should be a perrenial pro bowler. Grade: A

49. Kellen Clemens - Boom Boom was right. This draft hinges entirely on Clemens. If Clemens becomes a franchise QB, this draft is a success. If Clemens becomes the next Jay Fiedler or worse than this draft is a disappointment. Grade: Incomplete

76. Anthony Schlegel - Please. Not only is this clown awful but we passed over some very good players for him. No one can rationalize this pick. Grade: F

97. Eric Smith - Mangini, like Herm Edwards, loves his DB's. Smith looks like he'll develop into an average NFL safety and while better value could have been had with the 97th pick they could have done worse. Grade: C+

103 Brad Smith - A project. Hard to see why Tangini would pass up on Gabe Watson here when we obviously needed a Nose Tackle and still need one a year later. He could develop into a decent 3rd receiver though and he may be a better QB than Kellen Clemens. Grade: B

117. Leon Washington - After Mangold he was the best rookie last year. He had a 4.3 YPC and was the only bright spot in our otherwise putrid backfield. Probably can't be a fulltime back but he can be a Kevin Faulk-type.

Grade: B+

150. Jason Pociask - Grade: Incomplete

Overall Draft Grade: C+.

That's a tentative grade that can go up, or down, depending on how Kellen Clemens turns out.

[#27TheDominator]

4. D'Brickashaw Ferguson - Not the best OT in last year's draft and there were a ton of other good to excellent linemen that could have been had in the second round and after. Marcus McNeill is better than Ferguson and it isn't even close. We passed up two franchise QB's, Leinart and Cutler, for an undersized finesse linemen who can't run-block. Grade: C

29. Nick Mangold - The most successful pick in our draft last year. Should be a perrenial pro bowler. Grade: A

49. Kellen Clemens - Boom Boom was right. This draft hinges entirely on Clemens. If Clemens becomes a franchise QB, this draft is a success. If Clemens becomes the next Jay Fiedler or worse than this draft is a disappointment. Grade: Incomplete

76. Anthony Schlegel - Please. Not only is this clown awful but we passed over some very good players for him. No one can rationalize this pick. Grade: F

97. Eric Smith - Mangini, like Herm Edwards, loves his DB's. Smith looks like he'll develop into an average NFL safety and while better value could have been had with the 97th pick they could have done worse. Grade: C+

103 Brad Smith - A project. Hard to see why Tangini would pass up on Gabe Watson here when we obviously needed a Nose Tackle and still need one a year later. He could develop into a decent 3rd receiver though and he may be a better QB than Kellen Clemens. Grade: B

117. Leon Washington - After Mangold he was the best rookie last year. He had a 4.3 YPC and was the only bright spot in our otherwise putrid backfield. Probably can't be a fulltime back but he can be a Kevin Faulk-type.

Grade: B+

150. Jason Pociask - Grade: Incomplete

Overall Draft Grade: C+.

That's a tentative grade that can go up, or down, depending on how Kellen Clemens turns out.

Why does everybody throw around the term "franchise qb?" There are very few franchise qbs. Peyton, Brady and Carson Palmer. That's it. There are other qbs that will have to be franchise guys because of the investment (Eli, Leinart, Cutler, Vick, Young all into this category), but don't. A second round pick will rarely be a "franchise" guy, Farve is the only one I remember. If Clemens being a franchise qb is your criteria, you can scratch this draft off, because I'd bet against it, but a good starting qb in round two is plenty.

A B for Brad Smith seems fair, but if all he can be is a "decent 3rd receiver" is all he can develop into he's not worth the pick because he is all potential and not much production. He has the ability to be a standout wr. Physically he's as good as any wr on the team and if he develops he can be special. Guess that isn't so likely or he wouldn't have lasted so long.

I'd give this draft better than a C+, but given the #4 pick, 2 firsts and 2 thirds, they should have had a good draft. The extra pick this year should also be considered. That helps too.

[Gibbon]

4. D'Brickashaw Ferguson - Not the best OT in last year's draft and there were a ton of other good to excellent linemen that could have been had in the second round and after. Marcus McNeill is better than Ferguson and it isn't even close. We passed up two franchise QB's, Leinart and Cutler, for an undersized finesse linemen who can't run-block. Grade: C

29. Nick Mangold - The most successful pick in our draft last year. Should be a perrenial pro bowler. Grade: A

49. Kellen Clemens - Boom Boom was right. This draft hinges entirely on Clemens. If Clemens becomes a franchise QB, this draft is a success. If Clemens becomes the next Jay Fiedler or worse than this draft is a disappointment. Grade: Incomplete

76. Anthony Schlegel - Please. Not only is this clown awful but we passed over some very good players for him. No one can rationalize this pick. Grade: F

97. Eric Smith - Mangini, like Herm Edwards, loves his DB's. Smith looks like he'll develop into an average NFL safety and while better value could have been had with the 97th pick they could have done worse. Grade: C+

103 Brad Smith - A project. Hard to see why Tangini would pass up on Gabe Watson here when we obviously needed a Nose Tackle and still need one a year later. He could develop into a decent 3rd receiver though and he may be a better QB than Kellen Clemens. Grade: B

117. Leon Washington - After Mangold he was the best rookie last year. He had a 4.3 YPC and was the only bright spot in our otherwise putrid backfield. Probably can't be a fulltime back but he can be a Kevin Faulk-type.

Grade: B+

150. Jason Pociask - Grade: Incomplete

Overall Draft Grade: C+.

That's a tentative grade that can go up, or down, depending on how Kellen Clemens turns out.

You wanna explain to me how a QB who doesnt play gets and incomplete and a LB who doesnt play gets an F. Or how a DB who played every game, made some key plays, and had two ints gets a C+?

The only way to explain it, other than to insult your intellegence, is that this is the result of looking through the narrow, pencil-necked-geek prism, of "draftology". Picks once they are made only have the value that the player gives the team that picked them on the field over the course of their career.

Football is not played on a draft board and Football teams are not rebuilt in one season.

Can you honestly say that any of the guys that you and Sperm wish the Jets had picked instead of Schlegel or Smith would have directly contributed to winning more games last year? Of course you cant because that would be impossible to predict. Your statements about what the Jets passed up are almost exclusively based on hindsigh. So, your whole evaluating the draft BS is based on speculation about how the players you are so high on would do in future seasons for their respective teams as compared to how you think Schlegel, Smith, Posciak, etc will do for the Jets. In other words its too damn early to fairly on intellegently grade the draft on a player by player basis.

[Jetlag]

My bad it was his back not his knee. Hey what can I say, my memory gets "hazy" for some reason. Regardless my point still holds that McNeill while looking like a much better value pick at the moment might not hold up.

Sperm I'm very surprised at the hindsight you're using for that draft evaluation. Btw I'd rather have Mangold than McNeill.

[bitonti]

Sperm,

In your opinion How many players does a team need to get from a draft in order for it to be deemed successful?

im not sperm but in my opinion just 1 player will do it, if it's the right player

[Sperm Edwards]

This was not a typical draft. Bit you of all should agree with that. The type of talent that was available it's like there were two first rounds.

Is there usually enough talent in a draft that prospects like D'Qwell Jackson, Chad Jackson, Thomas Howard, Jimmy Williams, Winston Justice, LenDale White, Daniel Bullocks, Marcus McNeill, Andrew Whitworth, Maurice Drew, Greg Jennings, Roman Harper, etc could ALL slip to round 2 this year?

What are the odds that Eric Winston, Ashton Youboty, Chris Gocong, Jerious Norwood, Leonard Pope, Dominique Byrd, Dusty Dvoracek, Abdul Hodge, & Claude Wroten among others would last to round 3 if they came out this year or the year before instead?

Would Max Jean-Gilles, Gabe Watson, Ko Simpson, Demetrius Williams, Darnell Bing, Elvis Dumervil, Leon Washington, Victor Adeyanju, Jahri Evans, etc last to round 4 this year?

In most years, is there enough talent available that Ryan O'Callaghan, Jonathan Scott, Greg Blue, and Mark Anderson would slip into round FIVE?

Any possibility of Babatunde Oshinowo, Greg Eslinger and Lawrence Vickers lasting to round SIX this year?

It was an unusual crop of talent, and all of our picks #4, 29, 35, and 71 at least should have all yielded above-average talent. It wasn't like a draft with a lot of garbage like '03 and '05. What are the chances that Matt Jones (no matter what his combine #'s were) could go #21 in a draft like this? Or Braylon Edwards AND Troy Williamson both off the board by pick #7? About zero. Take a look at round 3 from 2005. There's Frank Gore (picked first) and then just about no one else in the whole round. Tell me that Evan Mathis would have been picked a round ahead of Max Jean-Gilles.

My point is that you can't point to a draft as though they are all equal. Getting only ONE player (barring injury of course) from a draft like this, when we had 5 day-one picks, would be a damned disgrace.

The reason I was so hard on the Schlegel pick was not JUST because it was such a big reach. But because we had a player targeted right there (Gocong) who WAS there, and bet on him being there for 5 more picks. So the team we traded with to move down 5 slots TOOK him in our spot.

To me, it's not just is the guy is a good prospect, or even if he turns into an outstanding player. It's could we have STILL gotten the SAME player AND another one. So Schlegel on his own is not a proper way to critique his pick. If another team wanted to reach for him in the early 3rd round LET them. Put it this way. Late 7th-rounder Marques Colston blindsided everyone with his production as a rookie. If he was chosen by the Saints with the 2nd overall pick instead of Reggie Bush, would anyone overlook the fact that they could have had Bush AND Colston? Now this is an extreme example, but the principle still applies. Bad value is bad value. JMO.

[Ghost]

I think we should of gave Schlegel more playing time.

[mbn007]

You wanna explain to me how a QB who doesnt play gets and incomplete and a LB who doesnt play gets an F. Or how a DB who played every game, made some key plays, and had two ints gets a C+?

The only way to explain it, other than to insult your intellegence, is that this is the result of looking through the narrow, pencil-necked-geek prism, of "draftology". Picks once they are made only have the value that the player gives the team that picked them on the field over the course of their career.

Football is not played on a draft board and Football teams are not rebuilt in one season.

Can you honestly say that any of the guys that you and Sperm wish the Jets had picked instead of Schlegel or Smith would have directly contributed to winning more games last year? Of course you cant because that would be impossible to predict. Your statements about what the Jets passed up are almost exclusively based on hindsigh. So, your whole evaluating the draft BS is based on speculation about how the players you are so high on would do in future seasons for their respective teams as compared to how you think Schlegel, Smith, Posciak, etc will do for the Jets. In other words its too damn early to fairly on intellegently grade the draft on a player by player basis.

Very solid post.

It is impossible to grade the draft after 1 season. Personally, 3 seasons are a minimum to give a fair and accurate grade.

It would appear that the Chargers with Rivers had a horrid draft after 1 year. After 3 years, especially seeing how Eli developed, and how Rivers seems to have grasped the position, it was a super draft for teh Chargers.

Right now, the draft is a B-, or mmaybe a B. If Clemens develops, and some of teh gusy who did not play much also develop, it could be an a-/a. If not, then it probably stays here. D'Vrick, Mangold, Washington and the Smith boys alone make it a B-, at worse. Any other positive developments make this a higher grade.

[Gibbon]

The reason I was so hard on the Schlegel pick was not JUST because it was such a big reach. But because we had a player targeted right there (Gocong) who WAS there, and bet on him being there for 5 more picks. So the team we traded with to move down 5 slots TOOK him in our spot.

To me, it's not just is the guy is a good prospect, or even if he turns into an outstanding player. It's could we have STILL gotten the SAME player AND another one. So Schlegel on his own is not a proper way to critique his pick. If another team wanted to reach for him in the early 3rd round LET them. Put it this way. Late 7th-rounder Marques Colston blindsided everyone with his production as a rookie. If he was chosen by the Saints with the 2nd overall pick instead of Reggie Bush, would anyone overlook the fact that they could have had Bush AND Colston? Now this is an extreme example, but the principle still applies. Bad value is bad value. JMO.

Has it been confirmed that the Jets would have picked Gocong?

Here's my problem with your value idea and analogy. There is a difference between the first round and the third. The first round pick, unless he's a QB, is expected to play from day 1 and contribute to the teams improvement. The third round pick is not normally expected to play from day 1. You have mentioned several that did play and contribute though the Guard the Saints picked was probably the most valuable to his team on the field of any of the guys you listed, but for the most part you are basing your opinion of Schlegel's value v. theres on what you assume that they will do in the future and your opinion that Schlegel will do little. If the Jets get a productive, solid, ILB from the 76th pick from 2006 then I think that will be good value. We wont really know if Schlegel was a bust or a steal in the third round for a few more season just like we dont know if all the "awesome" talent you feel like we missed out on pans out in the long term.

[bitonti]

Bad value is bad value. JMO.

you are being overly critical. If we consider Brick, Mangold, E Smith, B Smith and Leon Wash to be non busts that's 5 quality players and good enough for any draft to be considered a success.

[MasonJet]

I would like to mention that Gocong did not play in a single game for the Eagles, so talking about him like he would have been a great addition for our team is quite simply absurd. Schlegel actually played in a few games and got a tackle or two, so he was actually more productive than Gocong.

[Sperm Edwards]

Has it been confirmed that the Jets would have picked Gocong?

Gocong was pretty much told that. The only way that gets communicated is either directly from the Jets to Gocong, or indirectly from the Jets to Gocong's agent to Gocong. Of course the Jets FO never officially said that, particularly after the fact. In all of Mangini's & Tannenbaum's interviews they are very aware of the words they choose. They certainly wouldn't say anything so stupid PR-wise. So the only "proof" you would accept is Tannenbaum stating, "We targeted Chris Gocong. I thought he'd stick around for 5 more picks. I was very wrong. So instead of the player I really wanted, I settled on Anthony Schlegel who is not the player I wanted there."

Here's my problem with your value idea and analogy. There is a difference between the first round and the third. The first round pick, unless he's a QB, is expected to play from day 1 and contribute to the teams improvement. The third round pick is not normally expected to play from day 1. You have mentioned several that did play and contribute though the Guard the Saints picked was probably the most valuable to his team on the field of any of the guys you listed, but for the most part you are basing your opinion of Schlegel's value v. theres on what you assume that they will do in the future and your opinion that Schlegel will do little. If the Jets get a productive, solid, ILB from the 76th pick from 2006 then I think that will be good value. We wont really know if Schlegel was a bust or a steal in the third round for a few more season just like we dont know if all the "awesome" talent you feel like we missed out on pans out in the long term.

Again, this was not a "normal" third round. Likewise, 2005 was not a normal third round either; most of those players look like 5th-round talent. In the 3rd round of '06 there were still plenty of players with (traditionally) top-40 talent. We opted for a guy who was projected around #150 at best. It was a bad pick. It was poor value for the pick EVEN IF he becomes a successful player. Because that means we went with Jason Pociask instead of one of the players I mentioned, NOT because we went with Schlegel instead of one of those same players. There was a VERY high likelihood he'd have been there 80 picks later. The players I named had a very LOW likelihood of being there 80 picks later.

That's why, as much as the Saints liked him AS a sleeper, they didn't draft Colston in round 1. Or round 2, or round 3, or round 4, or round 5, or round 6. Because he was going to be there ANYWAY, and the players selected in those earlier rounds would not.

Look. I am VERY into this GM and HC. I'm a big fan. But that doesn't mean they do not make mistakes, nor does it mean that it is blasphemous to express such sentiment AS a fan. Being critical of them is BECAUSE I think highly of them. If I set the bar low for these two - say if Matt Millen was suddenly our GM - I would be ecstatic with this draft. These guys are smart and I expect better & smarter decisions than trying to find "sleepers" in the early third round when first-round talent is still on the board. You find sleepers later on. Not when road-grader guards & King Kong-sized nose tackles with first-round grades are on the board.

[bitonti]

I would like to mention that Gocong did not play in a single game for the Eagles, so talking about him like he would have been a great addition for our team is quite simply absurd. Schlegel actually played in a few games and got a tackle or two, so he was actually more productive than Gocong.

absolutely true

[Sperm Edwards]

and absolutely silly.

He didn't play for the Eagles because of a freak-incident when his knee got busted up in training camp. You're making it out like this was the case because of his talent.

Schlegel was healthy from day 1 of training camp through the playoff game. And he barely saw the field. So he made 2 more tackles than a guy who missed the entire season. That still doesn't make him a bust of a pick, since he was just a rookie. I'm still holding out hope.

But he was still an enormous reach.

[MasonJet]

and absolutely silly.

He didn't play for the Eagles because of a freak-incident when his knee got busted up in training camp. You're making it out like this was the case because of his talent.

Schlegel was healthy from day 1 of training camp through the playoff game. And he barely saw the field.

Ok, I'll still wait for Gocong to actually see the field of an NFL stadium before assuming he would have been a great pick.

[Sperm Edwards]

Ok, I'll still wait for Gocong to actually see the field of an NFL stadium before assuming he would have been a great pick.

I didn't say he would have been a great pick. But he was the player that they were targeting and they lost him by getting a little too cute. Hopefully the lesson was not lost on them.