Why Clemens is not as good as some people think

[BornJetsFan1983]

-The guy is a back up for a reason, he's stayed backup for a reason.

-Wasnt the QB job up for grabs by anyone that showed the most skill last year? I dont think Clemens made the cut, I think I remember reading/hearing that a career ending injury sustaining Chad Pennington that came out of no where and claimed the spot. Overwhelmingly I might add.....

-He might be good eventually, but no way is he ready to start thats just fact

-The Jets are not team Clemens, its team Chad period. Ask the coach.

-Someone tell me why Chad is so bad, and why thier are some, who are Jets fans, but yet dont even support the teams leader....I dont get that...anyone want to comment?

[#27TheDominator]

Boom Boom?

[BornJetsFan1983]

Boom Boom?

wow good one, that explains it, I guess it is too much to ask for, well if anyone else want to give it a shot go ahead....

[Thor99]

We have no idea how good Clemens is.

The only thing we know is that Chad picked up the offense fast enough to give the Jets the best chance to win right away.

I do know that unless Chad can prove that he can throw the deep ball, teams are going to continue to crowd the line. Even Thomas Jones can't run if there are 8 in the box.

[124]

Chad Pennington was a back-up for 2 years and a quarter of a 3rd season. I guess he just isn't as good as some people think.

Guess Tom Brady backing up for a year and two games wasn't as good as some think.

Same with Carson Palmer.

Rookies, usually, are beaten out by the veterans unless there is pressure within the organization for them to play or if there is no real great competition at the position. Also, the Jets system is a bit tough to learn and lets not be foolish, Chad Pennington isn't a Rhodes Scholar for sitting on his ass and eating Cheetos. He can learn a playbook. Its his ability to stay healthy and make throws that you need to win championships that are in question.

Pennington is simply doing what others have done before him. Holding down the fort for 1 or 2 seasons before giving up the job to the draft pick.

[#27TheDominator]

wow good one, that explains it, I guess it is too much to ask for, well if anyone else want to give it a shot go ahead....

Okay, you don't like that? How about this?

-The guy is a back up for a reason, he's stayed backup for a reason.

Because he was a rookie? Not that many qbs start as a rookie. Did Pennington?

--Wasnt the QB job up for grabs by anyone that showed the most skill last year?

Yes and Clemens had to beat out three veterans, two of whom had spent more than a year as starters.

-I dont think Clemens made the cut,

He made the cut. He didn't start, but he obviously made the team, beating out Brooksie. He also proved enough that they chose to dump Ramsey and bring in lowly regarded Tuiasosopo as third stringer.

-I think I remember reading/hearing that a career ending injury sustaining Chad Pennington that came out of no where and claimed the spot. Overwhelmingly I might add.....

I have no idea what this means.

-He might be good eventually, but no way is he ready to start thats just fact

Actually, it's not a fact. It's an opinion. You have no idea. He wasn't ready in '06, but he's had a full season and offseason to learn the system and adjust to the speed of the pro game.

--The Jets are not team Clemens, its team Chad period. Ask the coach.

The coach hasn't really said much other than that Chad is the starter going in to camp. I have never heard the coach or anybody else refer to it as "team Chad." I believe "team Chad" is the name of ecurb's little group.

--Someone tell me why Chad is so bad, and why thier are some, who are Jets fans, but yet dont even support the teams leader....I dont get that...anyone want to comment?

I don't think Chad is bad. I'm one of his biggest supporters here. Still, he has a weak arm. This has been stated literally thousands of times on jetnation and elsewhere. If you haven't heard it you have had your head in the sand. If you haven't seen it, you haven't watched a game. Chad deeply limits our ability to go deep and that allows teams to load up against the run and the short passing game. He excellent with play action, but without the deep threat we are severely limited. I support the Jets. I support Pennington. I don't necessarily think he is the "team's leader" He's the qb. I think he's the best option now. When he isn't I'll call for someone else. When the coach puts somebody else in I'll support them. Hell, I was ready to support Ramsey and I thought he was a stiff on the 'skins. Just because people don't agree with you that it's "team Chad" doesn't mean they aren't real fans.

[CoachTsurfing]

Okay, you don't like that? How about this?

Because he was a rookie? Not that many qbs start as a rookie. Did Pennington?

Yes and Clemens had to beat out three veterans, two of whom had spent more than a year as starters.

He made the cut. He didn't start, but he obviously made the team, beating out Brooksie. He also proved enough that they chose to dump Ramsey and bring in lowly regarded Tuiasosopo as third stringer.

I have no idea what this means.

Actually, it's not a fact. It's an opinion. You have no idea. He wasn't ready in '06, but he's had a full season and offseason to learn the system and adjust to the speed of the pro game.

The coach hasn't really said much other than that Chad is the starter going in to camp. I have never heard the coach or anybody else refer to it as "team Chad." I believe "team Chad" is the name of ecurb's little group.

I don't think Chad is bad. I'm one of his biggest supporters here. Still, he has a weak arm. This has been stated literally thousands of times on jetnation and elsewhere. If you haven't heard it you have had your head in the sand. If you haven't seen it, you haven't watched a game. Chad deeply limits our ability to go deep and that allows teams to load up against the run and the short passing game. He excellent with play action, but without the deep threat we are severely limited. I support the Jets. I support Pennington. I don't necessarily think he is the "team's leader" He's the qb. I think he's the best option now. When he isn't I'll call for someone else. When the coach puts somebody else in I'll support them. Hell, I was ready to support Ramsey and I thought he was a stiff on the 'skins. Just because people don't agree with you that it's "team Chad" doesn't mean they aren't real fans.

That response is so good I didn't even need to write anything other then "Right on brother!"

[The Troll]

He threw one ****ing pass in his rookie season.

I guess that one pass was so horrible that we can now judge him a career backup.

[mbn007]

Okay, you don't like that? How about this?

Because he was a rookie? Not that many qbs start as a rookie. Did Pennington?

Yes and Clemens had to beat out three veterans, two of whom had spent more than a year as starters.

He made the cut. He didn't start, but he obviously made the team, beating out Brooksie. He also proved enough that they chose to dump Ramsey and bring in lowly regarded Tuiasosopo as third stringer.

I have no idea what this means.

Actually, it's not a fact. It's an opinion. You have no idea. He wasn't ready in '06, but he's had a full season and offseason to learn the system and adjust to the speed of the pro game.

The coach hasn't really said much other than that Chad is the starter going in to camp. I have never heard the coach or anybody else refer to it as "team Chad." I believe "team Chad" is the name of ecurb's little group.

I don't think Chad is bad. I'm one of his biggest supporters here. Still, he has a weak arm. This has been stated literally thousands of times on jetnation and elsewhere. If you haven't heard it you have had your head in the sand. If you haven't seen it, you haven't watched a game. Chad deeply limits our ability to go deep and that allows teams to load up against the run and the short passing game. He excellent with play action, but without the deep threat we are severely limited. I support the Jets. I support Pennington. I don't necessarily think he is the "team's leader" He's the qb. I think he's the best option now. When he isn't I'll call for someone else. When the coach puts somebody else in I'll support them. Hell, I was ready to support Ramsey and I thought he was a stiff on the 'skins. Just because people don't agree with you that it's "team Chad" doesn't mean they aren't real fans.

Excellent responses. Just excellent.

[L.I.MikeBleedsGreen]

We have no idea how good Clemens is.

The only thing we know is that Chad picked up the offense fast enough to give the Jets the best chance to win right away.

I do know that unless Chad can prove that he can throw the deep ball, teams are going to continue to crowd the line. Even Thomas Jones can't run if there are 8 in the box.

Here it is, in a nut shell Bobby Boushe!!! Chad is the Debil

[shawn306]

-The guy is a back up for a reason, he's stayed backup for a reason.

-Wasnt the QB job up for grabs by anyone that showed the most skill last year? I dont think Clemens made the cut, I think I remember reading/hearing that a career ending injury sustaining Chad Pennington that came out of no where and claimed the spot. Overwhelmingly I might add.....

-He might be good eventually, but no way is he ready to start thats just fact

-The Jets are not team Clemens, its team Chad period. Ask the coach.

-Someone tell me why Chad is so bad, and why thier are some, who are Jets fans, but yet dont even support the teams leader....I dont get that...anyone want to comment?

It is not the fact that Chad is bad. It is the fact that alot of people here (I'm not one of them) want to see what Clemens can do.

Maybe he is the next John Elway, maybe he is Ryan Leaf reincarnated. We don't know yet because other than that one series against Buffalo he carried a clipboard all season.

How many QB's have come in their first year and did great ? Not many. Marino in 83 came on mid season. Do you want to put Cutler in their eventhough Denver didn't make the playoffs.

Playing QB in college and playing QB in the NFL are two totally different beasts. If Clemens gets some signficant playing time this year then we WILL see a QB duel in TC 08.

[NJ]

. Chad deeply limits our ability to go deep and that allows teams to load up against the run and the short passing game. He excellent with play action, but without the deep threat we are severely limited.

Deep ball problem? Yeah, we have a deep ball problem with Pennington. The actual football term for Chad's deep ball is interception. But what about the quick sideline passes in the flat? Those seldom work well for him and when they get picked it's a high probability for 6. They guy can't consistantly make the throws necessary to give us a potent passing offense. He is also not an acknowledged threat running the football. Field general? Master of the hard count and audible? You betcha - 5 stars. Those skills are great - but the aforementioned ability for every NFL defense to stack up on our running game will keep us in the maybe make the playoffs with a soft to medium schedule catagory as long as he's taking the snaps.

[SoFlaJets]

Deep ball problem? Yeah, we have a deep ball problem with Pennington. The actual football term for Chad's deep ball is interception. But what about the quick sideline passes in the flat? Those seldom work well for him and when they get picked it's a high probability for 6. They guy can't consistantly make the throws necessary to give us a potent passing offense. He is also not an acknowledged threat running the football. Field general? Master of the hard count and audible? You betcha - 5 stars. Those skills are great - but the aforementioned ability for every NFL defense to stack up on our running game will keep us in the maybe make the playoffs with a soft to medium schedule catagory as long as he's taking the snaps.

I don't know NJ-I saw him bulk up in the shoulder/neck area last year-maybe this off-season he gets himself even stronger without having to be rehabbing all spring and summer-I ain't ready to give up on the guy yet-and besides he's earned it for one, and Kellen and Tui....enough said

[NJ]

I don't know NJ-I saw him bulk up in the shoulder/neck area last year-maybe this off-season he gets himself even stronger without having to be rehabbing all spring and summer-I ain't ready to give up on the guy yet-and besides he's earned it for one, and Kellen and Tui....enough said

Nobody would like to see it more than me SoFla. When he came out of the gate last season I was shocked to see some of the throws he was making. He looked like a different QB - but most of that gone after the first few games and it was back to balloons, picks, and missed targets. You want a guy with his integrity and savy to be your guy - I just don't know if he got the innate ability. I'd love to be wrong.

[#27TheDominator]

Nobody would like to see it more than me SoFla. When he came out of the gate last season I was shocked to see some of the throws he was making. He looked like a different QB - but most of that gone after the first few games and it was back to balloons, picks, and missed targets. You want a guy with his integrity and savy to be your guy - I just don't know if he got the innate ability. I'd love to be wrong.

I probably feel pretty much the same way as you do about Pennington. However, I don't think that he needs anymore "innate ability". He does to carry a team through the playoffs, but I believe it may be just as easy to get better team as a better qb. For instance, IMO he is better than Grossman and the Bears would have had a much better chance with Penny. If we can upgrade him great, but I'm not a change for the sake of change guy.

[Ghost]

-The guy is a back up for a reason, he's stayed backup for a reason.

-Wasnt the QB job up for grabs by anyone that showed the most skill last year? I dont think Clemens made the cut, I think I remember reading/hearing that a career ending injury sustaining Chad Pennington that came out of no where and claimed the spot. Overwhelmingly I might add.....

-He might be good eventually, but no way is he ready to start thats just fact

-The Jets are not team Clemens, its team Chad period. Ask the coach.

-Someone tell me why Chad is so bad, and why thier are some, who are Jets fans, but yet dont even support the teams leader....I dont get that...anyone want to comment?

Well of course it's " Team Chad ", he's starting for a reason, also Pennington is more experienced and talented than Clemens. Did you ever see Clemens play in a actual game ? No, because he never had the chance. No one should talk sh!t about this guy because we don't know what he can do.

[drago]

I don't know NJ-I saw him bulk up in the shoulder/neck area last year-maybe this off-season he gets himself even stronger without having to be rehabbing all spring and summer-I ain't ready to give up on the guy yet-and besides he's earned it for one, and Kellen and Tui....enough said

I think you hit the nail on the head. This full year to work on strength, knowing the playbook, i wouldn't be surprised to see him in hawaii. Call me a homer if you want, but then again...i don't care what the trolls say.

[NJ]

I probably feel pretty much the same way as you do about Pennington. However, I don't think that he needs anymore "innate ability". He does to carry a team through the playoffs, but I believe it may be just as easy to get better team as a better qb. For instance, IMO he is better than Grossman and the Bears would have had a much better chance with Penny. If we can upgrade him great, but I'm not a change for the sake of change guy.

And thats exactly where we're at with the Clemens thing 27. He is going to have make those throws that Penny struggles at along with performing at an acceptable level in the areas where Chad shines to de-throne him.

[#27TheDominator]

I think you hit the nail on the head. This full year to work on strength, knowing the playbook, i wouldn't be surprised to see him in hawaii. Call me a homer if you want, but then again...i don't care what the trolls say.

Not so far fetched Homer. After all the guys that pulled out due to injuries, etc. the qbs in Hawaii this year weren't so great, were they?

[drago]

Not so far fetched Homer. After all the guys that pulled out due to injuries, etc. the qbs in Hawaii this year weren't so great, were they?

For the record, you don't count as a troll. You actually use thought and rationale. If you want to reach Troll status you need a signature that predicts the future, and insults other view points.

do people actually do that? LOL

[16G-MONEY]

-The guy is a back up for a reason, he's stayed backup for a reason.

-Wasnt the QB job up for grabs by anyone that showed the most skill last year? I dont think Clemens made the cut, I think I remember reading/hearing that a career ending injury sustaining Chad Pennington that came out of no where and claimed the spot. Overwhelmingly I might add.....

-He might be good eventually, but no way is he ready to start thats just fact

-The Jets are not team Clemens, its team Chad period. Ask the coach.

-Someone tell me why Chad is so bad, and why thier are some, who are Jets fans, but yet dont even support the teams leader....I dont get that...anyone want to comment?

BJ Fan...

Can you give us any reasons why Clemens isn't as good as we think he may be? Your original post was all fluff and didn't really say anything ABOUT Clemens. I'm just curious. You're suggesting he sucks. I haven't seen enough of him to make a judgement either way. Apparently you have. Enlighten us, please...

[flgreen]

I think we will get to see a lot of Clemens in preseason this year.

This CS aren't idiots, and are well aware of Pennington's injury problems in the past. I find it very interesting that they have seemingly awarded Clemens the back up job with out a serious veteran challenge.

I just don't see Tui as a real challenge.

As pointed out above we can't judge him at all, because we haven't seen him, or how he is developing. The CS has. Every day in practice.

IMO it is a very good sign that he is clearly the back up.

If Tui gives him a run in camp, we are in serious poo poo.

Don't think so

[Barton]

Okay, you don't like that? How about this?

Because he was a rookie? Not that many qbs start as a rookie. Did Pennington?

Yes and Clemens had to beat out three veterans, two of whom had spent more than a year as starters.

He made the cut. He didn't start, but he obviously made the team, beating out Brooksie. He also proved enough that they chose to dump Ramsey and bring in lowly regarded Tuiasosopo as third stringer.

I have no idea what this means.

Actually, it's not a fact. It's an opinion. You have no idea. He wasn't ready in '06, but he's had a full season and offseason to learn the system and adjust to the speed of the pro game.

The coach hasn't really said much other than that Chad is the starter going in to camp. I have never heard the coach or anybody else refer to it as "team Chad." I believe "team Chad" is the name of ecurb's little group.

I don't think Chad is bad. I'm one of his biggest supporters here. Still, he has a weak arm. This has been stated literally thousands of times on jetnation and elsewhere. If you haven't heard it you have had your head in the sand. If you haven't seen it, you haven't watched a game. Chad deeply limits our ability to go deep and that allows teams to load up against the run and the short passing game. He excellent with play action, but without the deep threat we are severely limited. I support the Jets. I support Pennington. I don't necessarily think he is the "team's leader" He's the qb. I think he's the best option now. When he isn't I'll call for someone else. When the coach puts somebody else in I'll support them. Hell, I was ready to support Ramsey and I thought he was a stiff on the 'skins. Just because people don't agree with you that it's "team Chad" doesn't mean they aren't real fans.

And there it is. I bet he doesnt respond.

[dbatesman]

-Someone tell me why Chad is so bad, and why thier are some, who are Jets fans, but yet dont even support the teams leader....I dont get that...anyone want to comment?

Tell me about it! And what's with all these people criticizing President Bush? He's our leader, for God's sake! And you're never allowed to criticize your leaders.

[Thor99]

BJ Fan...

Yes I am. Thanks for asking.

Luckily, Smizzy has dentures.

[16G-MONEY]

Yes I am. Thanks for asking.

Luckily, Smizzy has dentures.

lol!

[madmike1]

Anyone who tells you they know what Clemens is, (Good or Bad) is lying. His size does worry me though.

[TNJet]

He was only a rookie last season,and Chad was the vet with more experience and sure, he picked up the offense quicker.Clemens may play this season for all we know,Chad just has to lose a few crucial games,and we all know he can.Or just play pretty bad....which we all know he has.Clemens will be treated with respect from all jets fans when he gets his chance and then he WINS.Winning conquers all as a qb in this league.If Clemens starts 6 games and we go 4-2 in that span everyone will be talking about how bright his future is.

[TNJet]

Tell me about it! And what's with all these people criticizing President Bush? He's our leader, for God's sake! And you're never allowed to criticize your leaders.

POTW! Hahahaha funny sh!t.

[BornJetsFan1983]

Alright guys heres my take....

First off Im glad we got some actual discussion not just the "Boom Boom" response, screw you man I know what that means now (lol, I had to ask someone).

Look I never said Clemens cant get better or even lead the team cause I think he will some day, I even made sure to write that in the original post. Funny how I automatically hate clemens all of a sudden. All Im saying is that I didnt get the Team Clemens guys saying chad sucks, noodle arm, start Clemens now etc.. Yeah chad has a weaker arm but he also leads a differant offense that evolves around it, like every other offense does in the league. Playing to thier strengths, The fact that Chad wins 10 games last year I would say pretty much makes him good. Most strong arm guys in the league didnt make the playoffs and thats what its all about.

All I have been saying is its crazy to put in Clemens right now, he's still learning and needs time. Its not Clemens' fault he's not better than Chad, Im not saying that. He's just like every other QB, he needs time to develop. Thats how it goes(young, brady, they come to mind) But he's not better than **** right now. Hes a back up learning. Thats obvious to everybody who knows football. The Team is Team Chad, hes the leader period. You cant argue that. Anyone that has ever played or watched football should know the QB is the leader on the field. I can say its team chad until somone else is given the starter job, right?

Look bottom line is that all I have been saying is Clemens is the Bkup because hes not better than Chad thats it. Im not wrong. But the Chad haters come out attacking the guy who is arguably the best QB we have had since...**** I dont know how long. Oh and this guy Barton, what a joke. Keeps writing some crap about I bet this guy wont even respond, what am I scared to explain myself cause you might type yell at me and not explain someone elses opinion you'vve taken for your own? lol Your like 7 year old tool for 124 and all the other Chad haters. Im not like you and just jump on someone else's opinion cause Im not smart enough to have one of my own. And then when questioned, say something to the effect of your not worth the time explaining it. After reading this whole thread I dont see how anyone can really think Chad sucks. Cause he has a weak arm and that makes Clemens by default better. Well that is unless of course 124 or some other Chad hater says so. Cause I garuntee you'll see Barton follow....

[green_blood]

Why does Chad v. Kellen have to be so polarized? Can't we just go with the flow over this? If Chad doesn't win the job, so what? If Chad wins the job, doesn't that mean that Chad performed better. No QB ever got better by being thrust into the fray, especially Kellen, who was pegged as a developmental pick before the draft.

[#27TheDominator]

Sorry if we were a little testy, but this subject has been done to death here and them some. I think most of us were ready to let it rest until Pennington's first INT of the pre-season.

Your first post was awful Troll-y. I called you Boom Boom for a reason. Reading it I'd say screw you. As Mad Mike said, nobody has any idea what Clemens will be like this season. There are plenty of guys who have a light bulb go off during an off-season. You don't know he'll be worse than Pennington any more than anybody else knows he'll be better.

We are here to discuss the team. If guys feel that somebody different should start this is the place to do it. It doesn't mean they are going to games and cheering when Pennington throws a pick. Pennington the starter now is meaningless. Right now Barrett or Poteat is starting at corner opposite Dyson. Does anybody honestly think Revis won't be starting?

I wouldn't continue trying to rip Barton on this issue. You may think Barton is following 124, but Barton ran Clemens side of the JetNation debate on this topic. I believe he was hand picked by Max. Maybe you should do a search and read that thread, especially before you accuse him of jumping on a bandwagon.

http://www.jetnation.com/forums/showthread.php?t=30721&highlight=chad+clemens+debate

[BornJetsFan1983]

Sorry if we were a little testy, but this subject has been done to death here and them some. I think most of us were ready to let it rest until Pennington's first INT of the pre-season.

Your first post was awful Troll-y. I called you Boom Boom for a reason. Reading it I'd say screw you. As Mad Mike said, nobody has any idea what Clemens will be like this season. There are plenty of guys who have a light bulb go off during an off-season. You don't know he'll be worse than Pennington any more than anybody else knows he'll be better.

We are here to discuss the team. If guys feel that somebody different should start this is the place to do it. It doesn't mean they are going to games and cheering when Pennington throws a pick. Pennington the starter now is meaningless. Right now Barrett or Poteat is starting at corner opposite Dyson. Does anybody honestly think Revis won't be starting?

I wouldn't continue trying to rip Barton on this issue. You may think Barton is following 124, but Barton ran Clemens side of the JetNation debate on this topic. I believe he was hand picked by Max. Maybe you should do a search and read that thread, especially before you accuse him of jumping on a bandwagon.

http://www.jetnation.com/forums/showthread.php?t=30721&highlight=chad+clemens+debate

lol fair enough, maybe barton isnt jumping on the bandwagon but I dont give a **** how long hes argued for clemens it doesnt matter, just attacking others opinions with out supporting your own is worthy of crap of the week honors. Clemens could and probably will become a starter but not yet, and saying that chad isnt good or deserve his spot over Clemens is nuts....no matter how long you've been nuts.....

[124]

BornJetFan, so, I guess Drew Bledsoe, Jon Kitna & Vinny Testaverde are all better then Tom Brady, Carson Palmer & Chad Pennington, all guys who sat for at least one season before being named the starter.

It is proven that more recently, more success comes when a guy sits on the bench and learns the system for a year or two before being thrown into the fire. ****. If Bledsoe had never gone down, Brady would've waited 2+ years just like Chad did.

JaMarcus Russell and Brady Quinn are going to be your next two prime examples of teams keeping their future on the bench for a season or two before throwing them in there. Obviously Tennessee, Arizona & Denver didn't wait the entire season last year, but their Quarterback's were also 1st round picks and they knew their teams weren't going to be competiting for a legitmate playoff berth with Collins, Warner and Plummer leading the way. Maybe Denver, but obviously Shanahan had enough of the 1 & done with Plummer, hmm, sound familiar? Sounds like what we get with Chad year after year.

Clemens sat his first year and will most likely sit his 2nd year but if injury occurs to Chad at any point this season and he misses a few games, he will never start another down for the New York Jets. Next training camp / Preseason, THAT is going to be the year, if not sometime this year, that there will be a serious QB competition between a guy who has learned the system and is ready to compete as a real NFL Quarterback.

[BornJetsFan1983]

BornJetFan, so, I guess Drew Bledsoe, Jon Kitna & Vinny Testaverde are all better then Tom Brady, Carson Palmer & Chad Pennington, all guys who sat for at least one season before being named the starter.

It is proven that more recently, more success comes when a guy sits on the bench and learns the system for a year or two before being thrown into the fire. ****. If Bledsoe had never gone down, Brady would've waited 2+ years just like Chad did.

JaMarcus Russell and Brady Quinn are going to be your next two prime examples of teams keeping their future on the bench for a season or two before throwing them in there. Obviously Tennessee, Arizona & Denver didn't wait the entire season last year, but their Quarterback's were also 1st round picks and they knew their teams weren't going to be competiting for a legitmate playoff berth with Collins, Warner and Plummer leading the way. Maybe Denver, but obviously Shanahan had enough of the 1 & done with Plummer, hmm, sound familiar? Sounds like what we get with Chad year after year.

Clemens sat his first year and will most likely sit his 2nd year but if injury occurs to Chad at any point this season and he misses a few games, he will never start a never down for the New York Jets. Next training camp / Preseason, THAT is going to be the year, if not sometime this year, that there will be a serious QB competition between a guy who has learned the system and is ready to compete as a real NFL Quarterback.

Hey 124, good buddy how you doing, um what the hell are you arguing?

I dont know what the point of you writing all this was, um I agree and have said the same thing. whats different? umm oh the first sentence you got there obviouly Drew Jon and Vinney are not better. But if you were to compare veteran Drew Jon and Vinney to rookie Tom Carson and Chad umm I think its fair to say that the vets win. Even though later on they surpass them. Its the same with Chad and Kellen. Im all for Kellen could be better after he learns and grow into a starter but right now he not. To say so is wrong in my opinion. Thats the point, Chad is the best for the team right now. Argument over. When you say Clemens should start right now and noodle arm should be out, your wrong. I will concede this, if Old Helen Clemens has grown and surpassed chad, which I highly doubt, (its too soon for him and Chad has earned his spot). I would support Kellen Leading the Jets. But in reality if you had it the way you wanted you would ruin Kellen, putting him in too soon would arguably do more damage to the Jets than not starting Chad this year.

Oh and btw I read the Barton/Ecurb debate....I noticed Barton lost,huh go figure...

Dont worry guys Kellen will play soon enough, but right now its all about Chad, and should be.