Building a super unit

[Scott Dierking]

(and let's try to keep this clean)

I believe that one way a football team can really build an identity, as well allow the team to evolve in creative ways is to build a "super unit". One aspect of your team that becomes dominant, forces other teams to game plan for it, and covers deficiencies in the other parts of your team.

I believe that the closest thing that the Jets have to becoming a "super unit" is their defensive secondary.

In Revis you have a player who has pedigree, athleticism and earned the trust to cover man-to-man the other team's best receiver. As with any rookie DB, the results were mixed at times, but you could see what he can eventually agree. Unless he does a complete Eric McMillan, you have a corner who will give excellent play for a decade, if the Jets manage him well.

In Kerry Rhodes, the Jets have an intelligent, rugged playmaker who carries all the characteristics of a ballhawking, game changing Free Safety.

The integral missing piece of assembling a hopeful "super unit" is that second cornerback. The Jets were woeful at that position and were constantly rotating players over to the other side and mixing coverages to disguise this weakness.

If I am the Jets, I target another shutdown corner and hope that I can create a "superunit". I am not advocating that this be a high draft choice, or a price FA signing, but I target a shutdown CB to pair with Rhodes and Revis and hope that I can create someting special.

If you are able to do that, you can target a different type of Linebacker. You can be more physical (bye Vilma). You can stunt your line more. You can make up more for shortcomings at DE pass rush and allow secondary sacks and scheme your front 7 more. You can box 8.

[Matt39]

Pursuing Samuel wouldnt be a bad idea.

[PeterNorth09]

Pursuing Samuel wouldnt be a bad idea.

We're gonna have 4 all-pros in the secondary meanwhile the front 7 will get no pressure and Brady, Edwards and Beck will have all day to find the open man. It's the Mangini way.

[Matt39]

We're gonna have 4 all-pros in the secondary meanwhile the front 7 will get no pressure and Brady, Edwards and Beck will have all day to find the open man. It's the Mangini way.

Youre right, unfortunately.

[Scott Dierking]

We're gonna have 4 all-pros in the secondary meanwhile the front 7 will get no pressure and Brady, Edwards and Beck will have all day to find the open man. It's the Mangini way.

I don't know what you were watching at the end of the year, but I watched a Jets defense that when it actually "schemed, yes "schemed" an opponent's offense, they played very well.

I believe that adding a stud CB, can allow even more of that scheming. ie. covering up inadequancies.

It is a lot easier to do that wjhen you are dealing with one position of strength.

[Arsis]

It's much better when the super group is one or preferably both of your lines.

[Alk]

Doesn't Ham have a patent on the term "Super Unit"?

[#27TheDominator]

I'm not even sure with another top corner the Jets secondary would be a "super unit". Secondary might be the last unit I'd want "super". See the '07 Broncos. I think Scottie is onto something though. Basically, you are only as strong as your weakest link. Especially on D. If you have an excellent secondary you can put more men in the box and blitz way more. IF you have one bad corner he will get cut to ribbons. If you have one bad lineman the O will simply run right over his spot. I'd be in favor of making a run at a top corner. I thought the '06 Dyson was very good and we'd be set at cb. Not sure if it's age, injuries or what made him get into the doghouse, but Dyson was almost useless this year.

[Scott Dierking]

It's much better when the super group is one or preferably both of your lines.

Well, yes, I realize that.

But I chose to focus on an area the Jets could do NOW, not down the road

[DonCorleone]

I don't know what you were watching at the end of the year, but I watched a Jets defense that when it actually "schemed, yes "schemed" an opponent's offense, they played very well.

I believe that adding a stud CB, can allow even more of that scheming. ie. covering up inadequancies.

It is a lot easier to do that wjhen you are dealing with one position of strength.

When you play the better teams in the NFL, no "stud CB" can help you if the opposing QB has 4-5 seconds to throw the ball.

[Scott Dierking]

When you play the better teams in the NFL, no "stud CB" can help you if the opposing QB has 4-5 seconds to throw the ball.

When you are able to cover man, it allows you many differnt ways to utilize your other personnel.

[DonCorleone]

When you are able to cover man, it allows you many differnt ways to utilize your other personnel.

.

I do not disagree with you... and I will also agree that the DL played better after the bye.

But IMO Better was not good enough. And unless you create some real push from the line, a good qb will find the open receiver or a team with a good running game will run it in the middle when they can't throw. I think that the secret to a "super unit" may just be great balance.

[Barton]

Considering nobody ever touches brady (pass rush), building a "superunit secondary" might be the best way to defend the Patriots offense. Kenny Phillips anyone?

[Irish Jet]

(and let's try to keep this clean)

I believe that one way a football team can really build an identity, as well allow the team to evolve in creative ways is to build a "super unit". One aspect of your team that becomes dominant, forces other teams to game plan for it, and covers deficiencies in the other parts of your team.

I believe that the closest thing that the Jets have to becoming a "super unit" is their defensive secondary.

In Revis you have a player who has pedigree, athleticism and earned the trust to cover man-to-man the other team's best receiver. As with any rookie DB, the results were mixed at times, but you could see what he can eventually agree. Unless he does a complete Eric McMillan, you have a corner who will give excellent play for a decade, if the Jets manage him well.

In Kerry Rhodes, the Jets have an intelligent, rugged playmaker who carries all the characteristics of a ballhawking, game changing Free Safety.

The integral missing piece of assembling a hopeful "super unit" is that second cornerback. The Jets were woeful at that position and were constantly rotating players over to the other side and mixing coverages to disguise this weakness.

If I am the Jets, I target another shutdown corner and hope that I can create a "superunit". I am not advocating that this be a high draft choice, or a price FA signing, but I target a shutdown CB to pair with Rhodes and Revis and hope that I can create someting special.

If you are able to do that, you can target a different type of Linebacker. You can be more physical (bye Vilma). You can stunt your line more. You can make up more for shortcomings at DE pass rush and allow secondary sacks and scheme your front 7 more. You can box 8.

I like your think but these 'super units' can only be effective if the rest of the team is at least holding. What's the point in building up a great sercondary if teams are going to run all over us??? What is the point if the QB has all day to throw???

I too would love to see us have an elite secondary but even so, without a pass rush and a run D, it will only accomplish so much I'm afraid. Also, would Elam be in this 'super unit'???

[serphnx]

Considering nobody ever touches brady (pass rush), building a "superunit secondary" might be the best way to defend the Patriots offense. Kenny Phillips anyone?

Brady, and other top QBs, can hit their recievers for completions even if they are completely covered. You've been watching too much Chad Pennington led offense. This is why the "super unit" secondary is pretty much worthless. Even Champ Bailey gets beat. You would need two Deion Sanders and a Ronnie Lot and even then I do not think you can expect to win when the rest of the team is garbage.

I think it's more important to get impact OLB if we're insisting on the 3-4. I also think OL needs to improve, and offense in general really, really needs to be looked at. If you've got the skill positions (especially QB) set, it actually doesn't require much change for a decade or so, and you can pretty much plug and play as you need to. The OL if you've got 3 good linemen should usually be okay in case you have to play others (see Indy), but ideally I'd like a good 5 man unit there (I can live with Moore being the worst one on the line, but he can not be arguably third best).

[Scott Dierking]

Brady, and other top QBs, can hit their recievers for completions even if they are completely covered. You've been watching too much Chad Pennington led offense. This is why the "super unit" secondary is pretty much worthless. Even Champ Bailey gets beat. You would need two Deion Sanders and a Ronnie Lot and even then I do not think you can expect to win when the rest of the team is garbage.

I think it's more important to get impact OLB if we're insisting on the 3-4. I also think OL needs to improve, and offense in general really, really needs to be looked at. If you've got the skill positions (especially QB) set, it actually doesn't require much change for a decade or so, and you can pretty much plug and play as you need to. The OL if you've got 3 good linemen should usually be okay in case you have to play others (see Indy), but ideally I'd like a good 5 man unit there (I can live with Moore being the worst one on the line, but he can not be arguably third best).

I don't think anyone is advocating the rest of the team being "garbage"

The premis ist ob build teh "super unit", and then back fill your team with specialty players that compliment that unit.

ie. Bulkier LBs that are not so much coverage guys, LB's that rush specialists, A run stuffing SS.

Thos TYPES of things, but not necesarily those things. A super unit allows your other units to be less needy, and thus flexible and unique.

[Scott Dierking]

Brady, and other top QBs, can hit their recievers for completions even if they are completely covered. You've been watching too much Chad Pennington led offense. This is why the "super unit" secondary is pretty much worthless. Even Champ Bailey gets beat. You would need two Deion Sanders and a Ronnie Lot and even then I do not think you can expect to win when the rest of the team is garbage.

I think it's more important to get impact OLB if we're insisting on the 3-4. I also think OL needs to improve, and offense in general really, really needs to be looked at. If you've got the skill positions (especially QB) set, it actually doesn't require much change for a decade or so, and you can pretty much plug and play as you need to. The OL if you've got 3 good linemen should usually be okay in case you have to play others (see Indy), but ideally I'd like a good 5 man unit there (I can live with Moore being the worst one on the line, but he can not be arguably third best).

And BTW, Quentin Jammer had a big impact in the secondary yesterday, even with a rush in Brady's face. He allowed the defense to rotate away from him. A BIG help.

[ReD LiNe]

Isn't Albert Haynesworth a free agent this year? If so, we could pick him up and get another CB for that 2nd starting spot like an Aaron Ross. Solves our D-Line and CB issues somewhat ...

[LionelRichie]

remember the '06 raiders? their entire defense was basically a "super unit" and the offense found ways to lose games. when they beat pitt it was one of the most impressive wins i have ever seen - they basically scored all their points on d and gave up all of their points on O. they had a totally dominant defense but they still finished with the worst record in football.

if the jets can't run the ball and protect the QB this team will continue to stink.

[Blackout]

remember the '06 raiders? their entire defense was basically a "super unit" and the offense found ways to lose games. when they beat pitt it was one of the most impressive wins i have ever seen - they basically scored all their points on d and gave up all of their points on O. they had a totally dominant defense but they still finished with the worst record in football.

if the jets can't run the ball and protect the QB this team will continue to stink.

they were not a super unit. they were a legit top 10 defense though.

the 2000 ravens = super unit

2002 bucc's = super unit

[Scott Dierking]

remember the '06 raiders? their entire defense was basically a "super unit" and the offense found ways to lose games. when they beat pitt it was one of the most impressive wins i have ever seen - they basically scored all their points on d and gave up all of their points on O. they had a totally dominant defense but they still finished with the worst record in football.

if the jets can't run the ball and protect the QB this team will continue to stink.

The Super Unit premise that I came up with is NOT meant to be the cure to fix all ills on this team. That was never said

It was merely presented to give options as to how the rest of teh team can be built.

By creating a super d-backfield, it give you options as to the type of LBs and Dlineman you sign. It give you options to the packages that you present and scheme.

Of course it does nothing to bolster the offense. I was hoping that didn't need to be stated.

It is not a matter of, "oh, we signed a gread d-back, our offsesason is over". Far from it.

[Boozer76]

Consider drafting Dan Connor and sign Terrell Suggs and suddenly our LB's are the super unit you speak of.

[Sperm Edwards]

Adding another WR - with either size or speed (even better with both) - who can actually catch the ball is the fastest way to make a super-unit on this team.

[drago]

If you were able to have four all-pros in one unit (assuming a 43 defense if you wanted D-line, and a 34 if you wanted linebackers) what do you take? I'd put the secondary very low on the list. The 07 Broncos were already sited, but there are other teams that go the route of secondary first, and they are never elite teams.

I have to go with an offensive line. You can get by with less at all positions on offense, and in many cases defense since you would more than likely win time of possession every game. An after thought of this, and you may think me crazy for it, is that you would be able to trade your running back every other year. People still, and seemingly always will, assume that the running back is the one responsible for the yards he earns.

Trade him, get a position of need.

With this said, I hope we take a RT or LG with our 38th pick. If the OT from Michigan is there at six, i'd consider that too, although i'd rather have a pass rusher or corner.

[Jet Moses]

I'm not sure if a super secondary is the answer to beating the Pats---

The refs will just throw more flags.

[Scott Dierking]

Adding another WR - with either size or speed (even better with both) - who can actually catch the ball is the fastest way to make a super-unit on this team.

In order to have a super unit that consists of WRs, I consider that a QB be a part of that equation.

Small detail, I understand.

[The Troll]

Assomuagha (doubt that's right...I'll learn to spell it if we sign him) would be a perfect fit.

[LionelRichie]

Assomuagha (doubt that's right...I'll learn to spell it if we sign him) would be a perfect fit.

there is just about no way that the raiders will let him get away.

[Sperm Edwards]

In order to have a super unit that consists of WRs, I consider that a QB be a part of that equation.

Small detail, I understand.

Not that I've been enamored with our QB play the past half decade & all of the past decade save '98 & '02 (I have decidedly NOT been), but I would say they go hand-in-hand to an extent.

Brady was a great, great QB before 2007. You'd have to be blind to see zero difference in his increased performance with Moss/Welker/Stallworth.

Did no one notice an increase in Favre's production with the addition of James Jones & the demotion of Bubba Franks for Donald Lee?

Arizona has had a formidable pass offense with mostly mediocre QB play & a mostly bad ground game & OL.

Is Derek Anderson all that? Maybe. Or maybe he had full, healthy seasons out of Edwards/Winslow/Jeruvicius.

You'll get no argument out of me that we need better play from Clemens. But sorry-ass pass protection plus a half season of one WR with Coles' injuries (and an entire corps with an acute case of the dropsies other than Chris Baker), in his first stint as starter, is not really my idea of giving him a lot to work with.

[RSJ]

If we are going to build a "super unit" of sorts, I would rather it be at LB than DB. Once you have an effective LB core and a good DL you can do almost anything you want in the secondary. Anyone can bump a WR and play the flats if you have an effective pass rush and run stopping LB core.

[Scott Dierking]

In all deference, I disagree.

I think being able to bump and still cover is one of the most difficult challenges of any position in the NFL.

What Jammer did on Sunday was a work of art. The two skills are usually indpendent of each other. In these days of the 3 step drop and read, the secondary is an important cog and just relying on a pass rush is not good enough.

Troll mentioned Asomugah (or whatever). He would be a perfect compliment to Revis and co.

[Jetscode1]

I like the concept...like Pittsburgh always having a good linebacking corps. Build the team with this in mind and sign/develop players around that strength. Not sure DB is the best "super-unit" to have. Is there another team in history that used something similar. Maybe the Oakland team with Haynes and Hayes in 1980s.

The JETS have never really had one area where they just dominated a position. Would love to see the attempt but not sure I could support using #6 on Kenny Phillips or Mike Jenkins.

[RSJ]

In all deference, I disagree.

I think being able to bump and still cover is one of the most difficult challenges of any position in the NFL.

What Jammer did on Sunday was a work of art. The two skills are usually indpendent of each other. In these days of the 3 step drop and read, the secondary is an important cog and just relying on a pass rush is not good enough.

Troll mentioned Asomugah (or whatever). He would be a perfect compliment to Revis and co.

No offense - but you are wrong.

Look at the Pats. Why do you think they can just replace CB's with their 3rd or 4th WR? It's because their front 7 is so dominant. I wasn't really paying attention to what coverage Jammer was in against the Pats. It looked like 2 deep man. It certainly wasn't cover two as I saw LB's covering RB's in the flat, particularly Faulk. Also their Corners were covering the Pats WR's on deep routes rather than releasing them. Again I wasn't paying close attention to the coverage - but it seems they were playing 2 deep man.

[Scott Dierking]

No offense - but you are wrong.

Look at the Pats. Why do you think they can just replace CB's with their 3rd or 4th WR? It's because their front 7 is so dominant. I wasn't really paying attention to what coverage Jammer was in against the Pats. It looked like 2 deep man. It certainly wasn't cover two as I saw LB's covering RB's in the flat, particularly Faulk. Also their Corners were covering the Pats WR's on deep routes rather than releasing them. Again I wasn't paying close attention to the coverage - but it seems they were playing 2 deep man.

RSJ-It is an opinion, so there is no right or wrong.

As far as coverage, SD mixed it up. They played some zone and man. At times, they were in the receivers face, on the line and looking to jam them and disrupt routes.

Other times receivers went in motion, and no one moved with them. They were mixing, of course as any team will throughout a game.

For years, the Patriots pass D and secondary was a mediocre. It was really nothing special. They covered a lot of deficiencies through schemes and coverages. Don't just pass it off as it has always been a great unit.

[RSJ]

RSJ-It is an opinion, so there is no right or wrong.

As far as coverage, SD mixed it up. They played some zone and man. At times, they were in the receivers face, on the line and looking to jam them and disrupt routes.

Other times receivers went in motion, and no one moved with them. They were mixing, of course as any team will throughout a game.

For years, the Patriots pass D and secondary was a mediocre. It was really nothing special. They covered a lot of deficiencies through schemes and coverages. Don't just pass it off as it has always been a great unit.

The Pats play a deep cover two that allows you to hit the underneath stuff and guards against big plays. The key to the whole thing is the great play of their front 7, the scheming and the rotating of players which wears down the OL, and also takes advantage of different OL's weaknesses. Still it has the same effect as a great front 7. They may have been mediocre stats wise - but for the above reasons they always made the big stop at the end of the game or got the big turnover and were able to start nobodies at CB.

Furthermore, there has never been a team to win a Super Bowl with strictly a great DB unit. I love having Reveis and I wouldn't even mind getting Samuel and paying big money for him - but none of that is going to matter if we don't get a great pass rush and stop the run. With todays coverage rules you can't afford to put 9 in the box anyway. It is too much of a risk that you won't get to the QB in time and give up the big play.

I'm sure the Chargers did mix coverages - but it is hard to credit Jammer with making those plays if he was playing two deep man as he knows he has the over the top help and can turn his head to the QB as he did. Jammer played it well and Brady made a mistake - but that is different than playing man coverage with no help which is what you would expect from a lock down corner.