Mafia Game 3 - Not All in the Family..

[Dan.]

Nice job. I was not fully convinced on him, I admit, but it's a relief to be one scum down.

Part of me still worries that this was too easy, but I suppose it doesn't make a lot of sense for scum to take out one of their own on the first lynch. (Has that ever happened before?) It seems risky for EY to lead the attack, and it seems stupid for scum to all board the train together, unless they're all brilliant and are plotting something intricate. Ha, maybe I just can't accept when good things come so easily.

I'm still suspicious of SMC right now. Even if, as people have mentioned, he's a smart player who wouldn't act so blatantly scummy, it's apparent that something out of the ordinary is going on with him. EY, since your instincts have proven accurate so far, what are your thoughts? What happened to "we'll lynch SMC next"? Are you getting a guilty vibe from anyone else at the moment?

[slats]

Lets not forget. It's possible some scum hid out on Irish. But no reason to shoot bullets in the dark. We should start with the obvious and get more creative as we go along.

Again, Dr/Lawyer... No screwing around tonight. I need your help.

Gotta say that I'm prepared to do some following next day phase, but what about Bleedin'? SMC made the point about Crusher that he sorta implored him to cast the kill vote on IJ, but that he was too loyal to do so. But that it would've been a good scum move to hang his partner at that point.

You seemed to be calling BG out with your showmanship comment. What's your take there?

[ZachEY]

I'm still suspicious of SMC right now. Even if, as people have mentioned, he's a smart player who wouldn't act so blatantly scummy, it's apparent that something out of the ordinary is going on with him. EY, since your instincts have proven accurate so far, what are your thoughts? What happened to "we'll lynch SMC next"? Are you getting a guilty vibe from anyone else at the moment?

It's tough. His *restriction* is not the best thing in the world for the town, but I think he's on the side of the good.

Like I said above, we've got a huge advantage right now. There will be a time to get creative, but I think we can be systematic for now. I have no doubt there is AT LEAST 1 more scum voting SMC now (regardless of his alignment/role). Unfortunately that puts you under some suspicion... but, with the way things turned out you can't really argue with that, right?

[Sharrow]

Wow, this couldn't have turned out any better. Day 1 has been so long, there has to be some information in all of those pages somewhere that could lead us to his partners. I think the first people we should definitely look to is anyone who has either defended IJ or tried to deflect or draw attention away from him. Particularly anyone who defended him early or tried to deflect from him late. I gotta give EY props for looking out when most everyone else was just jumping wagons.

[Dan.]

It's tough. His *restriction* is not the best thing in the world for the town, but I think he's on the side of the good.

Like I said above, we've got a huge advantage right now. There will be a time to get creative, but I think we can be systematic for now. I have no doubt there is AT LEAST 1 more scum voting SMC now (regardless of his alignment/role). Unfortunately that puts you under some suspicion... but, with the way things turned out you can't really argue with that, right?

Naturally, I'm suspicious of everyone and would expect them to be suspicious of me, too. After all, I did question your reactions towards SMC and didn't vote for Irish, so yeah.

In my defense, I did, and still do, have a weird feeling about SMC. And I thought it was strange you abruptly stopped questioning him and went gung-ho for Irish, with everyone following suit without much argument. Although that somewhat makes sense now, if everyone had a very clear sense of his guilt, which I unfortunately managed to miss out on.

No matter what, I do think it's a good idea to check out some players that haven't been examined much. No one has voted for Crusher or Shutout at all, I was the single vote against Norway early on, and I think at one point JiF voted Doggin half-jokingly.

[Sharrow]

Awesome to see some action this late too, finally.

[Dan.]

Awesome to see some action this late too, finally.

Haha I know. Too bad I have to force myself to go to bed ...

[Dan.]

I agree. I'd highlight Crusher as well.

I essentially begged him to drop the hammer on Irish. I said that if Irish came up rat then the family wins. Crusher refused to switch his vote off from me.

Crusher is an inexperienced-experienced player. The devious move would have been to whack is rat buddy, but Crusher is too loyal by nature and couldn't do it. So he let someone else drop the hammer.

Note Crusher's "sigh" response to the hammer vote.

I'm still wondering what you meant by that. How could you guarantee that? As Bleedin' has already asked, what is your theory?

I'm also just confused by Crusher's "sigh" ... why would he say that if he's scum, knowing that Irish was moments away from being outed as scum? Wouldn't he say nothing at all, or fake rejoice?

[Sharrow]

Haha I know. Too bad I have to force myself to go to bed ...

Well, I'll take what I can get. At least now I can go back and try to get some new thoughts in for everyone when they get started tomorrow instead of it being the other way around.

[Irish Jet]

I hate EY

[Sharrow]

Well, I'll take what I can get. At least now I can go back and try to get some new thoughts in for everyone when they get started tomorrow instead of it being the other way around.

Well, the site went down on me not once, but twice. I had this big post ready and I lost it. But it turned out to be a blessing because I realized that it's a much much better idea to wait until after the night is over to try and smoke out the next target anyway. So I guess I'll see you guys tomorrow.

[JMJ]

Doggin and Norway IMO.

Precisely who I'm thinking.

Norway jumped on my bandwagon right after IJ did (2 1/2 days ago) and left his vote there for a long time before finally switching it to SMC. Even after switching it to SMC though he continuously referred to me a scum. When I asked him why his reply was, "Mainly because of your IJ vote." But he was calling me scum long before that and the wagon for IJ was well established before I jumped on. He had 5 or 6 votes already before my vote for him. Why would he be surprised I voted for him also? Looks like I was just a player who had some heat on me early (from him and IJ) who people began deviating their suspicion away from so he kept trying to bring the heat back to me by continuously repeating he felt "strongly" that I was scum.

Then when I posted this:

Realize I screwed up my earlier post:

If you read above, you say you felt strongly that I was scum due "mostly" to my Irish vote. You selected me as the person to lynch almost 48 hours ago. I selected IJ about 3 hours ago.

Something doesn't seem right there...

He posted this:

Amd why are you getting so concerned again, what do you have, 2 votes? While IJ has 9. Not much to worry about, is there? But you need to ask me wtice in 17 minutes?

Serious FOS - JMJ

It looks like he was certainly working to try and deflect heat from IJ and on to me multiple times.

As for Doggin:

In response to EY (calling EY suspicious)

Because my number 1 is so far ahead of my number 2 in terms of how suspicious I am of them that I'm not budging for today. I haven't yet seen any answer from SMC to my questions, and your lifeline of the village idiot role (which makes no sense in this game) is making me more suspicious of you than happier with SMC. And given that you're the guy cheerleading the IJ lynch . . . well, lets just say I'm not itching to vote IJ.

I can go back and post a few other things but they'll all lead back to the same thing. Doggin is a good player and a veteran. He knows his words, feelings, and actions can sway lesser players because of his veteranship to these games. When SMC and IJ were neck and neck at about 6 votes each he continuously went after SMC trying to make him look more suspicious than IJ. He even went as far as trying to call suspicion on to EY who was leading the charge against IJ.

It would not surprise me AT ALL if Doggin was scum along with IJ and Norway.

[Jets Voice of Reason]

True.

BTW, anyone else find the subtle deflection of attention from our still absent Sharrow a bit timely? Just something to keep in mind If Sharrow pops up guilty (on finder or lynch).

Not for nothing, but I found this post quite ironic. It was posted right after Irish Jet started to get some heat on him... Now that we know what we do about IJ, seems like a brilliant deflection move in itself considering the wagon on him was light at the time. And I think it's safe to say Doggin is one of the players that are capable of subtle moves like this.

[Norway'sWaddlingMarmaloof]

Precisely who I'm thinking.

Norway jumped on my bandwagon right after IJ did (2 1/2 days ago) and left his vote there for a long time before finally switching it to SMC. Even after switching it to SMC though he continuously referred to me a scum. When I asked him why his reply was, "Mainly because of your IJ vote." But he was calling me scum long before that and the wagon for IJ was well established before I jumped on. He had 5 or 6 votes already before my vote for him. Why would he be surprised I voted for him also? Looks like I was just a player who had some heat on me early (from him and IJ) who people began deviating their suspicion away from so he kept trying to bring the heat back to me by continuously repeating he felt "strongly" that I was scum.

Then when I posted this:

He posted this:

It looks like he was certainly working to try and deflect heat from IJ and on to me multiple times.

As for Doggin:

In response to EY (calling EY suspicious)

I can go back and post a few other things but they'll all lead back to the same thing. Doggin is a good player and a veteran. He knows his words, feelings, and actions can sway lesser players because of his veteranship to these games. When SMC and IJ were neck and neck at about 6 votes each he continuously went after SMC trying to make him look more suspicious than IJ. He even went as far as trying to call suspicion on to EY who was leading the charge against IJ.

It would not surprise me AT ALL if Doggin was scum along with IJ and Norway.

Simply put, I was just way off on Irish. I thought the train was suspiciously rapid and that surely he wouldn't demand ansswers from EY twice in 5 minutes. Again, I was waaaaaay off and am damn happy I was.

As for you, I was suspicious from the beginning and had alreadytold you why a few times. The more recent thing I found scummy was you jumping on the IJ wagon and placing a fairly late (7th) vote on him.

irish's guilt changes everything for me, I'll need to go back and re-read everything.

Congrats EY, you really nailed it. Freakish almost that you were so certain, so early, with what looked to some (including me) like fairly innocous post by IJ.

[Doggin94it]

Since you asked, Dan, here's my response to Doggin's point and why I claim his vote lacks valid reasoning (note, I didn't say it lacked any reasoning):

1) Bandwagoning. Why is blatent bandwagoning suspicious? Seriously. For scum bandwagoning to be successful it has to be (a) inconspicuous and ( late enough for an effective kill. My bandwagonning doesn't fit into either.

This is pure WIFOM logic (we'll get to that in a minute). "I'm acting so scummy that no scum would ever act like this, because you would know that they were scum"

Aside from which, the best times to Bandwagon are as lynch fuel - spots 3, 6 and 8, IMO.

You know what would have been suspicious? Me bandwagonning, denying it, and then not doing it again.

Or, you know, bandwagoning, again and again. That too.

2) I have no freakin clue what WIFOM stands for

Really? You've played this many games and don't recognize the acronym for Wine In Front Of Me logic? I find that hard to believe; in fact, I think you're lying.

3) Clear stretching on Jets Thing--that's when Doggin claimed JT lied. I failed to realize Doggin was joking. LOL. Silly me. I took Doggin's point too literal.

Yes, silly you.

That's not an answer to my question; indeed, I note that you refuse to actually quote my question, because doing so would require you to answer it.

One more time (without any hope that you'll answer it): How would lying about the quality of the Peter Petrelli role reveal possibly fit into a belief that JT was scum?

[Doggin94it]

Is there anything herring-related in this game? Genuine question. Since this is also the second time SMC has misspelled "herring" as "hering".

Obviously, SMC is a mer-man, able to breathe underwater. This is important, because it means he will survive the first attempted lynching (we'll try to "make him sleep with the fishes", not knowing that he is the "town herring")

[Doggin94it]

2) Neither do I.

Perhaps take some comfort in the fact that if IJ is lynched and turns up innocent, EY, ringleader of the lynch, immediately becomes suspect.

Not really, no. It's day one. If IJ is lynched and turns up innocent, Yellin could just have been wrong.

[Doggin94it]

The time your vote went in was irrelevant to my point. Rather the fact that from a certain point forward almost everyone who was posting was switching their votes over to IJ at the same time. Given this is a group who hasn't been able to agree on much of anything in days, the rapidity of this development gives me a little cause for concern. I'm sure you see it as justified given your stance on the situation and how most are essentially following your lead, but I'm a little hesitant to put IJ into hammer dropping territory after such a quick flurry of votes. As far as I'm concerned, he's now promised answers by 11/12 tomorrow, if I don't like what I hear then I'll gladly get on board, but right now I'm seeing a lot of "yeah, what EY said" going on which makes me wary of whats going on, one possible option being you setup as the fall guy by the mafia who know you're wrong. Or maybe I'm reading too much into things. Even if that is the case, I see no way in which waiting to hear from IJ hurts anything.

Agreed

[Doggin94it]

At this point it only helps bad guys. More confusion, more talking, more BS for them to weave. We have enough information and ideas flowing that the result of the lynch will be setting us up quite nicely. EY knows this clearly, he said he knows what the consequences are.

Unless, of course, he's innocent. Which we can't know until he's lynched. Remember, he may - may - have a power role and be waiting for imminent death to reveal (after learning from last game).

[Doggin94it]

What the hell is that supposed to mean? Or is this just an attempt to push me into casting the vote already? Just curious.

Pretty obviously the latter

[The Crusher]

I agree. I'd highlight Crusher as well.

I essentially begged him to drop the hammer on Irish. I said that if Irish came up rat then the family wins. Crusher refused to switch his vote off from me.

Crusher is an inexperienced-experienced player. The devious move would have been to whack is rat buddy, but Crusher is too loyal by nature and couldn't do it. So he let someone else drop the hammer.

Note Crusher's "sigh" response to the hammer vote.

I sighed because Bleedin green dropped the last vote and made me think of last game You did seem more of a threat than IRish. EY and You taking over the game reminded me of Vic and STM's power moves last game. I didn't wnat to get hooked like Jet Things. So Im going to always put up my dukes.

[Doggin94it]

The first day after Mario took his own life was a hectic day. Accusations flew, several candidates almost slept with the fishes. In the end though it was the kid, Tony Prosciutto, who couldn't take the first accusation that came his way. A wise guy would play it cool, not Tony though. He was hiding something and in turn everybody realized it. Unwilling to procrastinate any further a gun was put to the back of his head and the trigger pulled. The last word's he heard were "Sorry kid"...

Amongst his personal effects was a picture hidden in his wallet..

Must of have been real proud of his graduation from the academy to risk carry it around like that..

Tony Prosciutto - AKA Timothy Brown- Honorable member of the 51st Precinct AKA MAFIA SCUM has been Whacked!

Night Actions are due by Friday 12 noon est.

Hell yes. A true day 1 scum nailing. I'm not sure whether to be happy or scared (the only time I've ever seen this done, it was part of a perfectly executed scum plan that won them - ok, us - the game).

Finder should investigate Yellin at some point - he looks very innocent right now, which is why we need confirmation

[Doggin94it]

In it's simplest form, look at all those that did not vote for Irish and instead voted for others on the final vote:

JMJ (1) Irish

Jets Things (1) Sharrow,

SMC (4) Dan X, Doggin94it, Shutout, Crusher,

WoodyPaige (1) JT

Sharrow (1) Norway

I believe Norway switched from Sharrow and voted for me at the end so the official, unofficial numbers are:

JMJ (1) Irish

Jets Things (1) Sharrow,

SMC (5) Dan X, Doggin94it, Shutout, Crusher, Norway

WoodyPaige (1) JT

Pay close attention to the 5 who voted for me and refushed to switch. They all believed that me admittedly bandwagonning was somehow more scummy than Irish doing the total John Kerry, attacking JMJ for claiming ignorance and then using the same excuse for himself. When he didn't defend himself for SEVEN HOURS, those 5 still kept their vote on me.

In a game of 18 there are likely 4 to 5 rats. 1 is dead leaving 3 or 4. I'm pretty confident that most of the rats voted for me.

That makes sense only if the Mafia is completely Newb driven. No experienced player would ever let that happen.

[Doggin94it]

I agree. I'd highlight Crusher as well.

I essentially begged him to drop the hammer on Irish. I said that if Irish came up rat then the family wins. Crusher refused to switch his vote off from me.

Crusher is an inexperienced-experienced player. The devious move would have been to whack is rat buddy, but Crusher is too loyal by nature and couldn't do it. So he let someone else drop the hammer.

Note Crusher's "sigh" response to the hammer vote.

Heh. Bleedin can tell you exactly how wrong you are.

In fact, weren't you in that game?

[The Crusher]

Heh. Bleedin can tell you exactly how wrong you are.

In fact, weren't you in that game?

Go figure.

[Bleedin Green]

Heh. Bleedin can tell you exactly how wrong you are.

In fact, weren't you in that game?

Yeah, yeah... just keep rubbing it in why don't ya. Thankfully I've learned a thing or two since then (I think).

[The Crusher]

Yeah, yeah... just keep rubbing it in why don't ya. Thankfully I've learned a thing or two since then (I think).

Like what? I know you learned to be a sneaky mafia member this I know.

[Bleedin Green]

Like what? I know you learned to be a sneaky mafia member this I know.

Well I also learned how to be a sneaky serial killer if you recall.

[The Crusher]

Well I also learned how to be a sneaky serial killer if you recall.

I recall a little, but I don't think I played that game. Was that the first one here? Or one at JI?

[Bleedin Green]

I recall a little, but I don't think I played that game. Was that the first one here? Or one at JI?

First one here. The "TV Land" game doggin ran.

[The Crusher]

Obviously, SMC is a mer-man, able to breathe underwater. This is important, because it means he will survive the first attempted lynching (we'll try to "make him sleep with the fishes", not knowing that he is the "town herring")

A mer-man? No way. Wouldn't that little water bubbling device they need to breathe in land be a dead give away? Or he might just played it off as being flemmy. Wow SMC is more of a threat than I thought.

[The Crusher]

First one here. The "TV Land" game doggin ran.

Yeah that was a confusing one. Doggin actually let me look behind the curtain on that one and it was even more confusing when I knew who was who. He had some power swapping thing going on. I do remember you talking junk after it though.

[Doggin94it]

Lets not forget. It's possible some scum hid out on Irish. But no reason to shoot bullets in the dark. We should start with the obvious and get more creative as we go along.

Again, Dr/Lawyer... No screwing around tonight. I need your help.

This just clicked into an earlier post.

Yellin is legit, and does indeed need doctor protection.

[Doggin94it]

BTW, I want to be clear about something. I will be voting SMC, and only SMC, until:

1) He can explain:

a) How lying about the quality of the Peter Petrelli reveal could indicate that JT was scum; and

Why it took so long (and someone else saying they didn't know what WIFOM meant) for SMC to claim that he didn't have a clue about one of the accusations I was making against him (for what it's worth, being overly blase about accusations is as much a scumtell as being overly defensive; SMC apparently didn't care that I had accused him of something "incomprehensible"); or

2) He's lynched.

The whole "SMC has a role that makes him act dumb" thing is, IMO, completely wrong.

[SMC]

Doggin is trying to deflect things now with his arguments and also agreeing that EY needs protection. Also with his odd theories. I will put this out here ...

Laywer (Doctor), you need to protect me tonight. This is about what's best for the family.