Top 5 Qb's

[Vicious89x]

1. Chad Pennington

2. Big Ben

3. Tom Brady

4. Miley Cyrus

5. Peyton Manning

You forgot Brad Smith.

[nyjunc]

Huh???

You honestly think Big Ben is a better Qb than Peyton Manning. And you believe that so much that you would even go to the length of saying there is HUGE drop off between Peyton and Big Ben.

I'm sorry, but that is crazy talk.

YES. I want my QB to play big when it matters, Peyton does NOT do that. I don't care about fantasy #s which is why I am not high on Manning and Brees despite their great, inflated #s from playing most of their games in domes.

When Peyton starts playing in postseason like he does in the reg season he'll move up and maybe even past Brady but he's getting older and that likely isn't going to happen.

[JustInFudge]

YES. I want my QB to play big when it matters, Peyton does NOT do that. I don't care about fantasy #s which is why I am not high on Manning and Brees despite their great, inflated #s from playing most of their games in domes.

When Peyton starts playing in postseason like he does in the reg season he'll move up and maybe even past Brady but he's getting older and that likely isn't going to happen.

I see your point, but Manning has a ring. Its not like he has never come through for the Colts. I personally just dont think he has had the same teams that the Steelers and Patcheatriots have had so I dont put it all on him.

Manning is the better QB IMO. Let me ask you this. If Manning wins another SB, do you think that he is the better or because of his struggles in the playoffs to date, you are just bitter toward him and he can never get out of the the choking stigma you have placed on him?

[Klecko73isGod]

YES. I want my QB to play big when it matters, Peyton does NOT do that. I don't care about fantasy #s which is why I am not high on Manning and Brees despite their great, inflated #s from playing most of their games in domes.

When Peyton starts playing in postseason like he does in the reg season he'll move up and maybe even past Brady but he's getting older and that likely isn't going to happen.

Did you watch the 2006 postseason?

[Ghost]

At this point in his career, I think Big Ben is a better QB than Peyton Manning.

[Klecko73isGod]

At this point in his career, I think Big Ben is a better QB than Peyton Manning.

No, he's not.

He's on a better team, but he's not a better QB than Peyton Manning.

[nyjunc]

Did you watch the 2006 postseason?

Yes I did. Peyton had a good 2nd half against NE(they don't need much of a comeback if he wasn't so awful int he 1st half including throwing an INT for a TD) and didn't do much else.

I see your point, but Manning has a ring. Its not like he has never come through for the Colts. I personally just dont think he has had the same teams that the Steelers and Patcheatriots have had so I dont put it all on him.

Manning is the better QB IMO. Let me ask you this. If Manning wins another SB, do you think that he is the better or because of his struggles in the playoffs to date, you are just bitter toward him and he can never get out of the the choking stigma you have placed on him?

He threw 3 TDs and 7 INts in the '06 SB run, it was a complete joke he got the SB MVP when he did nothing in that game.

I always reserve the right to change my mind. peyton still has time to do that. He doesn't even have to win SBs to change me, just show up in big games. Sometimes as a QB you can only do so much and when you ose it's not your fault. Let him lose a game the eay Brady did 2 years ago after scoring a TD late to put his team up, let him put up more than the less than 14PPG he has put up in his 8 playoff losses. Simple things like that but he has been a major reason Indy hasn't won more. He has had a team capable of winning multiple SBs and only has the one trip.

[nyjunc]

No, he's not.

He's on a better team, but he's not a better QB than Peyton Manning.

He's better when it matters. I'd feel MUCH more comfortable heading into a big game w/ Ben as my QB rather than Peyton.

[Klecko73isGod]

He's better when it matters. I'd feel MUCH more comfortable heading into a big game w/ Ben as my QB rather than Peyton.

Not in a million years.

Put Peyton on the Steelers and they are unbeatable. Put Ben on the Colts and they are a .500 team at best.

[Jetfan13]

If this list is for the upcoming season, Brady shouldn't be #1 because no-one knows how he will reatc to that first dive at his knees...If you are talking career to date, yea, ok, what the hell

[nyjunc]

Not in a million years.

Put Peyton on the Steelers and they are unbeatable. Put Ben on the Colts and they are a .500 team at best.

He had a better team around him than ben had in 2005 and was given multiple gifts(overturn of Polamalu INT, Bettis fumble returend to midfield) AT HOME and still couldn't beat Pitt in '05. Put Peyton on Pitt and they are probably still seraching for their 1st SB win since the 70s.

[Klecko73isGod]

He had a better team around him than ben had in 2005 and was given multiple gifts(overturn of Polamalu INT, Bettis fumble returend to midfield) AT HOME and still couldn't beat Pitt in '05. Put Peyton on Pitt and they are probably still seraching for their 1st SB win since the 70s.

You're nuts.

[Jets Babe]

1. Drew Brees - I don't care what anyone says, this man is a beast. Look at what he had to work with last year and look what he did. Best QB in the league right now.

2. Tom Brady - Clutch player, but I have never seen a QB bounce back from an injury like his. I'll rank him higher because of what he has done in the years past, but right now...I'm not so sure about Brady.

3. Ben Roethlisberger - Always comes through in the clutch, great skill set, young, great player. 2 rings already.

4. Matt Ryan - Yes, I am ranking him this high. This kid is the next great QB, wait and see.

5. Peyton Manning - I like him, great size, strength, skill set. Blah, blah, blah. Best regular season QB. But when he "led the Colts to a Super Bowl victory", he had 3 TDs to 7 INTs in the playoffs. It wasn't him that led them to victory, it was everyone else.

Honorable mention...

Donovan McNabb - If he wins a ring he's in the top 5, he's just a big-time choke.

[Klecko73isGod]

Its amazing to me reading this thread how many people don't have a clue what they are watching when they watch football.

[JustInFudge]

Yes I did. Peyton had a good 2nd half against NE(they don't need much of a comeback if he wasn't so awful int he 1st half including throwing an INT for a TD) and didn't do much else.

He threw 3 TDs and 7 INts in the '06 SB run, it was a complete joke he got the SB MVP when he did nothing in that game.

I always reserve the right to change my mind. peyton still has time to do that. He doesn't even have to win SBs to change me, just show up in big games. Sometimes as a QB you can only do so much and when you ose it's not your fault. Let him lose a game the eay Brady did 2 years ago after scoring a TD late to put his team up, let him put up more than the less than 14PPG he has put up in his 8 playoff losses. Simple things like that but he has been a major reason Indy hasn't won more. He has had a team capable of winning multiple SBs and only has the one trip.

Your opinion is your opinion. I dont agree, but hey, thats the way things go.

I personally think Peyton would dominate on the Steelers. Especially considering its 1 less dominate defense he would have to face in the playoffs.

[JohnnyHector]

ditto for your lack of a sense of humor

Including Vick indicated that you were kidding, but just by bringing up Pennington's name, I expected a series of cringe-inducing posts agreeing with you.

[nyjunc]

You're nuts.

Have you watched the guy play football in January? If I'm trying to win a fantasy league title I'm taking Peyton #1 but if I want to win SBs he's a couple of notches below.

Your opinion is your opinion. I dont agree, but hey, thats the way things go.

I personally think Peyton would dominate on the Steelers. Especially considering its 1 less dominate defense he would have to face in the playoffs.

He has had D's good enough to win but averaging less than 14 PPG in 8 playoff losses doesn't cut it.

The difference in PPG allowed isn't much btw Pitt's D and Indy's D. In Indy's '06 run his D gave up 51 points in 4 playoff games, in Pitt's '05 run they gave up 62 in 4 playoff games while in '08 Pitt's D gave up 59 in 3 games.

Everyone loves to make excuse after excuse for peyton but the bottom line is he hasn't performed in January.

[ZachEY]

Your opinion is your opinion. I dont agree, but hey, thats the way things go.

I personally think Peyton would dominate on the Steelers. Especially considering its 1 less dominate defense he would have to face in the playoffs.

My feelings exactly.

Honestly, take Peyton and put him on the Pats, and Brady on the Colts, and I'm not even sure you have that rivalry.

[JohnnyHector]

Everyone loves to make excuse after excuse for peyton but the bottom line is he hasn't performed in January.

EDIT: My bad, that game took place in February.

[StillerPaul]

He's better when it matters. I'd feel MUCH more comfortable heading into a big game w/ Ben as my QB rather than Peyton.

Same here. Being a diehard Steelers fan, i can honestly say that if the Steelers are down 7 or less with a couple minutes to go i'm completely comfortable with the ball in Ben's hands. It's just a feeling you get, as a fan base, that's almost indescribable. You just KNOW you're going to have a good shot at winning the game. And even if ya don't, ya know he gave his all.

I still rated Peyton higher for pure passing stats though.

One of the great debates we Steelers fans have is what would Ben do in Brady or Peyton's scheme with their O-lines vs how either would fare in our scheme with our O-line. It really makes for great debate IMO.

[villain_the_foe]

Villain's Picks

1. Peyton Manning (C'mon, its Peyton)

2. Kurt Warner (I dont think Arizona is a fluke. Kurt has possibly the two best WR's in the game today, a pretty good O-line and they just picked up one of the better RB's in the draft this year. Not to mention that Kurt has always been successful with talent around him).

3. Drew Brees (Kurt barely edges out Drew. If you were to put Drew in NE or Indy he would probably be looked at as the best QB in the league right now. He possesses in my opinion the best catchable ball in the NFL. He throws to the receivers eyes. You cant miss the ball. He makes mediocre players even better)

4. Ben Rothlisberger (Plain and simple: I Believe. He may not have had the hype i.e. Eli, but he has certainly shown that he's a force in this league with the right ingredients. )

5. Tom Brady (He barely made this list. However, if he has half his skills back, with the pats roster he'll still be a factor in the AFC East and the playoffs. )

Honorable Mentions:

Matt Ryan- I think this kid is for real. His first NFL pass was a TD. Not to mention he has the best TE in the history of the NFL on his team now. He cant help but to get better.

Chad Pennington- Chad was actually in the running for MVP last year and in some ways should have won it. Overall, I think Chad is in a good place with Bill Parcells. Parcells takes you to your zenith, so in that case he is certainly an honorable mention because he could easily knock off a person on my list if he plays to that potential.

Over Hype QB's

Matt Cassell- I dont believe him...period. I could have played QB for NE last year and won 11 games as long as my coach got me the tapes before gameday. His situation in KC IMO is pretty bleek, especially with no mor Gonzalez.

Phillip Rivers- I cant front, I like Rivers, I just think that the way Drew Brees is playing makes the move to Rivers look like a bad one. I think San Diego believed the hype instead of sticking with Brees.

[Aqua4ever04]

I really can't believe the love Ben Roethlisberger gets here; he was an average quarterback last year and rode the accomplishments of a historically great defense. He's not even in my top 10.

Here's mine:

1.) Peyton Manning - A pioneer of the position taking the reigns as both passer and on-field offensive coordinator. Hits his receivers in stride, knows how to avert pressure, reset and deliver a strike, and the most cerebral player in all of football. He will be the best of all time when he's done.

2.) Drew Brees - He does make some costly mistakes at times, but I think this is in an effort to compensate for an inconsistent running game. Great at timing the rhythm of his drop and stepping into his throw and driving into his receiver. Understands how to look off defensive backs as well as any one not named Peyton.

3.) Tom Brady - He would be #2, but I'm going to hold off because of the knee injury. He doesn't get sacked, makes all the short, intermediate and long throws and is a gym rat that always knows where the coverage will dictate the route tree. But, like Manning, he succumbs to pressure just as bad as any.

4.) Phillip Rivers - He was the highest rated passer last year and excells in accuracy. Not a monster arm, but spreads the ball just as well as any one. Great thrower on the move and extends plays in and outside of the pocket with the best of them.

5.) Aaron Rodgers - This is my surprise pick for you guys. He throws from all platforms, hits the anticipation routes like a seasoned vet, and does it with prestine accuracy. This is sort of a prediction pick, watch him blossom into the NFL's elite this year.

[Larz]

Including Vick indicated that you were kidding, but just by bringing up Pennington's name, I expected a series of cringe-inducing posts agreeing with you.

all kidding aside where is the love for palmer ?

this thread isn't an "all-time" thread, it's about '09

from what I saw

wouldn't suprise me at all to see palmer light it up

[Joe Cabot]

I really can't believe the love Ben Roethlisberger gets here; he was an average quarterback last year and rode the accomplishments of a historically great defense. He's not even in my top 10.

Here's mine:

1.) Peyton Manning - A pioneer of the position taking the reigns as both passer and on-field offensive coordinator. Hits his receivers in stride, knows how to avert pressure, reset and deliver a strike, and the most cerebral player in all of football. He will be the best of all time when he's done.

2.) Drew Brees - He does make some costly mistakes at times, but I think this is in an effort to compensate for an inconsistent running game. Great at timing the rhythm of his drop and stepping into his throw and driving into his receiver. Understands how to look off defensive backs as well as any one not named Peyton.

3.) Tom Brady - He would be #2, but I'm going to hold off because of the knee injury. He doesn't get sacked, makes all the short, intermediate and long throws and is a gym rat that always knows where the coverage will dictate the route tree. But, like Manning, he succumbs to pressure just as bad as any.

4.) Phillip Rivers - He was the highest rated passer last year and excells in accuracy. Not a monster arm, but spreads the ball just as well as any one. Great thrower on the move and extends plays in and outside of the pocket with the best of them.

5.) Aaron Rodgers - This is my surprise pick for you guys. He throws from all platforms, hits the anticipation routes like a seasoned vet, and does it with prestine accuracy. This is sort of a prediction pick, watch him blossom into the NFL's elite this year.

[CTM]

Pretty bored and tought this would be fun to actually talk Football. Figured we could do a different position each week to keep some Football talking going. This is based off what I think will happen in 09.

1) Peyton Manning

2) Tom Brady

3) Drew Brees

4) Phil Rivers

5) Big Ben

Peyton takes the number 1 spot for me because I dont know what Tom will be like coming back from injury. Most Qb's just dont seem the same after serious knee injuries, Carson Palmer and Daunte Culpepper are 2 recent examples that were playing Top 5 ball and fell off big time. Big Ben wouldnt have been there last year but after a 2nd SB, he is on my list.

Honor Mentions

Kurt Warner

Donovan McNabb

WHat's funny is that Favre on MN has a decent chance of being a top 5 QB this season

[Pyper]

Not in a million years.

Put Peyton on the Steelers and they are unbeatable. Put Ben on the Colts and they are a .500 team at best.

Wow! What the heck is that thought process based on? Did Klecko put his head in the microwave again?

Manning doesn't have the toughness or clutchness required to be a Steeler. That would be a TERRIBLE fit. He'd fit much better on the Chargers.

I guess people really ARE taken in by all the hand gestures at the line of scrimmage?

What I find interesting is how Peyton fans are always making excuses. What is this, "If he was on the Steelers..." or "If he was on the Patriots..." nonsense. He is what he is, or isn't as the case may be. He isn't a big game quarterback. He never has been.

What I find interesting and very revealing is that you can go back and watch each QB in college and get a feel for the essence of each one. I wonder how many Manning backers would change their stance if they did this???

And the best part is that when you're done watching the college games you can still go into the kitchen and put your head in the microwave. Perhaps Klecko can give us instructions on how to turn it on while we're wearing it.

[Aqua4ever04]

Ryan played at a ridiculous level last season for a rookie. It's not necessarily true that he wasn't asked to do much, yeah their offense centred around Turner but when Ryan was asked to step up he responded well every time.

I actually think he was one of the top 5 QB's in the games last season in terms of performance - The scary thing is how good he may become. He was the best rookie since Marino and even he didn't play a full season like Ryan.

I hate throwing stats out there as evidence, but when you do, Ryan was a slightly above average quarterback. However, when you watch him play and just use the eye test, he is so damn impressive, you would never believe he was a rookie. His attention to detail is so direct, it's obvious that he spends more time at this team's facility than any body in football. Watch the week 14 game against the Saints and you'll see one of the top 5 quarterback performances in the entire NFL from 2008.

The way he carries out fakes, goes through his cadance, makes his line shifts; it's all so scripted and rehearsed, you know the guy is putting in his time.

HOWEVER!

I don't want to crown him great until I see him do it without an elite running attack. How will he respond when the running game breaks down? At some point in his career, it's going to happen and he'll have to carry the offense.

I just did myself a little research and look at what I stumbled upon.

When Michael Turner didn't run for 100 yards, it was a miserable day for Matt Ryan:

Week 2- Turner, 42 yards; Ryan, 158 yards, 2 INTs, 39%, 4.8 YPA YIKES!

Week 4- Turner, 56 yards; Ryan, 153 yards, 0 INTs, 51%, 3.9 YPA

Week 8- Turner, 58 yards, Ryan, 277 yards, 2 INTs, 52%, 6.2 YPA

Week 11- Turner 81 yards, Ryan, 250 yards, 1 INT, 60%, 7.6 YPA - Not too bad

Week 16- Turner, 70 yards, Ryan, 134 yards, 0 INTs, 54%, 5.6 YPA

Only twice did he have adequate performances when the running game wasn't clicking and neither of those games he took the offensive to a new level statistically. (That New Orleans game was one and you just have to watch the tape to understand how well he played.)

But look at how terrible some of those YPA's are. YPA for a quarterback is one of the most over looked stats in football. If you're not moving the football when you put it up, you're not going to win, plain and simple. So let's see him be consistent when the running game isn't churning it's wheels, then we can call him elite.

[CTM]

I really can't believe the love Ben Roethlisberger gets here; he was an average quarterback last year and rode the accomplishments of a historically great defense. He's not even in my top 10.

Here's mine:

1.) Peyton Manning - A pioneer of the position taking the reigns as both passer and on-field offensive coordinator. Hits his receivers in stride, knows how to avert pressure, reset and deliver a strike, and the most cerebral player in all of football. He will be the best of all time when he's done.

2.) Drew Brees - He does make some costly mistakes at times, but I think this is in an effort to compensate for an inconsistent running game. Great at timing the rhythm of his drop and stepping into his throw and driving into his receiver. Understands how to look off defensive backs as well as any one not named Peyton.

3.) Tom Brady - He would be #2, but I'm going to hold off because of the knee injury. He doesn't get sacked, makes all the short, intermediate and long throws and is a gym rat that always knows where the coverage will dictate the route tree. But, like Manning, he succumbs to pressure just as bad as any.

4.) Phillip Rivers - He was the highest rated passer last year and excells in accuracy. Not a monster arm, but spreads the ball just as well as any one. Great thrower on the move and extends plays in and outside of the pocket with the best of them.

5.) Aaron Rodgers - This is my surprise pick for you guys. He throws from all platforms, hits the anticipation routes like a seasoned vet, and does it with prestine accuracy. This is sort of a prediction pick, watch him blossom into the NFL's elite this year.

He had a helluva first year, i like the pick..

[Aqua4ever04]

1) Tom Brady - Best QB in NFL History will own this spot for the foreseeable future.

2) Big Ben - Really stepped up last season and became one of the game's clutch performers.

3) Peyton Manning - Always dangerous although I'm expecting a mediocre year from the Colts.

4) Kurt Warner - Can he do it again? He has the weapons but somehow I can't help feeling that he's going to slip back to the land of mediocrity.

5) Everyone else - There's a big dropoff after the Big 3 with a handful of guys capable of brief moments of greatness but none of them seem consistent enough to warrant inclusion on this list. Brees, McNabb, Rivers, and Romo all are capable passers but all must prove they can win the big games and carry their teams deep in the playoffs before I officially give them Top 5 status.

Such a terrible list. First of all, can we just stop calling Brady the best QB of all time? Charles Haley won five Super Bowls, so by this logic, he's the best player ever. IT'S A TEAM GAME!

Big Ben? Really? 15 picks and 17 touchdowns doesn't ring "elite" to me.

Where the hell is Drew Brees? Are you serious?

[Aqua4ever04]

Big Ben. Say what you want about his stats but always remember to look up his stats with the game on the line in the last few minutes as well. Trying not to be too homerish, but this generation's John Elway imo.

And in many of those games, if he doesn't have the best defense in the entire NFL behind him, those games are blowouts and those final drives never warrant any meaning.

The games are 60 minutes, not 4.

[Aqua4ever04]

He had a helluva first year, i like the pick..

I found myself rooting for he and the Packers a lot last year; he's just a likeable guy to me. And in doing this, it was very difficult to watch that football team. No team let victories slip through their fingers more than the '08 Packers did. Rodgers would have a pair of touchdowns, no picks, 275 yards and have the Pack up by 10 in the final moments, and the defense would collapse at the back end of the game.

Rodgers caught some flack for throwing late INTs, but he never should've been thrusted into the situation. Besides, he has 28 touchdowns compared to just 13 picks. Pretty damn impressive.

[Ghost]

1. Drew Brees - I don't care what anyone says, this man is a beast. Look at what he had to work with last year and look what he did. Best QB in the league right now.

2. Tom Brady - Clutch player, but I have never seen a QB bounce back from an injury like his. I'll rank him higher because of what he has done in the years past, but right now...I'm not so sure about Brady.

3. Ben Roethlisberger - Always comes through in the clutch, great skill set, young, great player. 2 rings already.

4. Matt Ryan - Yes, I am ranking him this high. This kid is the next great QB, wait and see.

5. Peyton Manning - I like him, great size, strength, skill set. Blah, blah, blah. Best regular season QB. But when he "led the Colts to a Super Bowl victory", he had 3 TDs to 7 INTs in the playoffs. It wasn't him that led them to victory, it was everyone else.

Honorable mention...

Donovan McNabb - If he wins a ring he's in the top 5, he's just a big-time choke.

I got that.

[Ghost]

No, he's not.

He's on a better team, but he's not a better QB than Peyton Manning.

He shows up in the games that matter. I'm sorry, as of now, I will take Ben over Peyton.

[PFSIKH]

Pretty bored and tought this would be fun to actually talk Football. Figured we could do a different position each week to keep some Football talking going. This is based off what I think will happen in 09.

1) Peyton Manning

2) Tom Brady

3) Drew Brees

4) Phil Rivers

5) Big Ben

Peyton takes the number 1 spot for me because I dont know what Tom will be like coming back from injury. Most Qb's just dont seem the same after serious knee injuries, Carson Palmer and Daunte Culpepper are 2 recent examples that were playing Top 5 ball and fell off big time. Big Ben wouldnt have been there last year but after a 2nd SB, he is on my list.

Honor Mentions

Kurt Warner

Donovan McNabb

So you are putting him number 1 based on what? He is 11 months removed from his knee injury?

[StillerPaul]

And in many of those games, if he doesn't have the best defense in the entire NFL behind him, those games are blowouts and those final drives never warrant any meaning.

The games are 60 minutes, not 4.

Your logic is seriously flawed. On one hand you want to argue how much of a team game it is then on the other you wanna throw stats out to support you.

Obviously you haven't watched Ben as much as alot here have. He does all the things that any of the other top QB's do, has all the tools, goes through progressions, has unbelievable pocket awareness and WINS. Great D's keep you in games. Great QB's WIN games. Something Chad knows very little about... Especially against better D's, yet Ben does this regularly against better D's....