Rapelisberger To Be Suspended 4-6 Games

[neckdemon]

Sounds like a great way to run a legal system.

you can't prosecute someone when you don't have the evidence to get a conviction.

[Blackout]

It would serve him right if he got a lifetime ban actually, but I guess 4-6 games is okay.

0 convictions....

[Thai Jet]

That's it?

It'll cost him almost $3 million.

[visajets]

The Steelers aquired Byron Leftwich I read somewhere. The JETS should offer them KC for a draft pick.

[The Gun Of Bavaria]

you can't prosecute someone when you don't have the evidence to get a conviction.

Thank You!

[Mistalava]

The Steelers aquired Byron Leftwich I read somewhere. The JETS should offer them KC for a draft pick.

Draft pick? I'd consider couple of sandwiches from Primanti Bros in exchange for KC to be an absolute steal.

[dolphann4life]

The Steelers aquired Byron Leftwich I read somewhere. The JETS should offer them KC for a draft pick.

YOu should give Steelers Mark Sanchez and your 1st for Big Ben. Serious.

[The Gun Of Bavaria]

Sounds like a great way to run a legal system.

It's frustrating at times, but it's better than a legal system that can get convictions without enough evidence.

[Aten]

It's frustrating at times, but it's better than a legal system that can get convictions without enough evidence.

Which itself would still be better than a system that can somehow return a result that is neither a conviction nor an acquittal. Six games is too little for rape, too much for nothing, and splitting the difference based on uncertainty is unprincipled idiocy. No wonder it's such a big hit.

[Thai Jet]

The Steelers aquired Byron Leftwich I read somewhere. The JETS should offer them KC for a draft pick.

They no longer have a 12 round draft.

[Thai Jet]

The Steelers need a QB will really shake up the draft come Thursday nite. I wonder if they can trade Ben by then ?

[Matt39]

Goodell painted himself into a corner with the Pacman suspension. He had no choice but to suspend Ben or else he'd look like he was playing favorites or even a racist.

[RutgersJetFan]

I can't believe that nobody else seems to find this completely ****ing retarded. If he's not going to specify a standard he at least has to make some explicit factual finding as to the basis for the suspension. And 'involvement' in one or more 'incident(s)' doesn't count.

Disagree. Sure it does. The Personal and Standard of Conduct Policies, though a bit on the ambiguous side depending on the circumstances, are pretty applicable to the guy's behavior over the past few years. They expressly state that avoiding being found guilty of a crime isn't enough to avoid penalties, and even if he didn't rape the chick according to the facts, there's still about 2-3 parts of the SoC section you can still apply directly to him.

[Aten]

They expressly state that avoiding being found guilty of a crime isn't enough to avoid penalties

That it's defined in the negative is my whole point. They say what isn't sufficient to avoid discipline but not what is sufficient to impose it. The painfully clear implication of course being that the standard of proof varies inversely with the severity of the accusation.

[stoicsentry]

Wowwwwww the Steelers are in serious trouble. No Holmes, Byron Leftwich at QB for four games...

[Lady Jet]

It appears Goodell is not basing the suspension on the rape allegation(s), but on the excessive drinking with minors.

an excerpt from the NFL.com story...

[The Personal Conduct Policy makes clear that I may impose discipline 'even where the conduct does not result in conviction of a crime' as, for example, where the conduct 'imposes inherent danger to the safety and well being of another person'," Goodell wrote. "As the District Attorney concluded, the extensive investigatory record shows that you contributed to the irresponsible consumption of alcohol by purchasing (or facilitating the purchase of) alcoholic beverages for underage college students, at least some of whom were likely already intoxicated. There is no question that the excessive consumption of alcohol that evening put the students and yourself at risk

[visajets]

YOu should give Steelers Mark Sanchez and your 1st for Big Ben. Serious.

Actually the Dolphins should consider acquiring him. It would solve 2 major issues in Miami. 1 they would have a legitimate QB and 2 he could service all the fans like yourself wives,gfs,moms,sisters,aunts etc. Cause we all know Dolphins fans cant get it up----

[RutgersJetFan]

They say what isn't sufficient to avoid discipline but not what is sufficient to impose it.

I don't know if I completely agree with this. Though it's certainly not the most specific code, I think it's a general outline (as I said, mired in some ambiguity, but I don't think it's as unclear as you're insinuating, there's some ethical and moral principles detailed in it that are clear), and it's pretty obvious that it was constructed that way purposefully. I don't have a problem with it. I don't think it should be the NFL's responsibility to construct a separate legal code in order to try and maintain a higher standard of conduct for its players and employees, and I also think it's their right to hold them accountable for actions that toe the line. If I was in Goodell's position I'd probably do the same thing.

[rick34125]

The Steelers need a QB will really shake up the draft come Thursday nite. I wonder if they can trade Ben by then ?

From what i've read it will be hard to trade Ben since he needs to be psychologically evaluated and whatnot, and that won't get done before the draft.

it's taking a big risk to trade a high 1st rounder and then find out the guy is damaged goods, not to mention all the bad PR, the missed games, etc.

another thing: usually when a team takes a chance on a risky player it's in a win now mode, but which top 10 team in the draft is in that mode? and even if there was such a team, how could Ben help when he's suspended the first 6 games?

[Aten]

I don't think it should be the NFL's responsibility to construct a separate legal code in order to try and maintain a higher standard of conduct

Why on earth not? That's what a standard is. If it's undefined, it doesn't exist. They're eschewing a bright line in favor of a smell test because people don't care whether the process is arbitrary if they like the result.

[RutgersJetFan]

Why on earth not? That's what a standard is. If it's undefined, it doesn't exist.

Again, disagree. You can establish a penumbra so long as it's not too far-reaching (it isn't), and somewhat defined (it is).

And I hope this goes without saying, but just to be clear I don't think the above statement applies to Law, however I do think it applies to Ethics.

They're eschewing a bright line in favor of a smell test because people don't care whether the process is arbitrary if they like the result.

Of course they are, but they're well within their right to.

[kelticwizard]

Rapistberger got 6 games. Then the commish will evaluate him after the 6 games. It isnt conditional. ESPN just reported it.

Game 6 is Oct 17. This evaluation at the end of the sentence indicates that the NFL does not even have condfidence that Roethlisberger can refrain from similar incidents between now and then.

That's bad.

[dbatesman]

you can't prosecute someone when you don't have the evidence to get a conviction.

No ****. Thank God we're guarded by a lone ginger who requires nothing beyond hearsay and circumstance to maintain the thin line between civilization and chaos.

[NJ]

I'm so very thankful we're not still sitting here with douche nozzle Chaddy Boy going through the angel/devil on the shoulder routine trying to rationalize that it would be a good move trading the ranch for Benny da Bop so we could have a QB. Thank you God.

[Bugg]

Why on earth not? That's what a standard is. If it's undefined, it doesn't exist. They're eschewing a bright line in favor of a smell test because people don't care whether the process is arbitrary if they like the result.

Problem is as you state there is no objective standard of behavior. And while Rothlisberger is a dope and a cad he has no been charged with any crime. Once you go down this road, allowing media hysteria to make arbitrary decisions about what is a suspendable trangression, it can go anywhere. Why the NFLPA is not screaming is shocking. But they're run by a dope who thinks a strike might be a great idea about salaries when most of his membership has a career of less than 4 years but practically no medical long term coverage despite serious health problems resulting from playing in the NFL.

The "personal conduct policy" is pretty much what ever the Commissioner says. Would you like to work someplace that worries about what or who you're doing on Saturday nights?

So now every time Mike Lupica and Tony Kronheiser think something not criminally charged is "bad" a player will be suspended.Wow.

[kelticwizard]

But aren't most "morals clauses" traditionally loosely defined?

If the enterprise you work for is not only in the public eye, but depends on public attendance for it's very survival, can it be any other way?

[victorjets]

Big Ben pays for wrong-headed decisions

Listening to the naive and dishonest media discussion about the latest sexual assault allegation leveled at Ben Roethlisberger, you'd think Usher (and maybe Rick Pitino) was the only other American who wants to make "love in this club."

No wonder NFL commissioner Roger Goodell had such a difficult time ruling on how long to suspend the Pittsburgh quarterback. On Wednesday, Goodell banned Roethlisberger for six games.

It's a fair suspension. Unfortunately, PacBen's transgressions have never been put in proper perspective for the public.

Tiger Woods life coach Herm Edwards declared that Big Ben's "moral compass" is out of whack. Moralizing, shallow newspaper and Internet columnists blasted the 28-year-old Roethlisberger for fishing in a college bar with the oldest lure in the book (alcohol).

And race-baiting simpletons wanted to keep a racial scorecard on how Goodell and the Steelers handled PacBen as opposed to Pacman Jones and kicked-to-the-curb Steelers receiver Santonio Holmes.

A lifetime ban for Big Ben wouldn't have cleaned up the stench of Donte Stallworth's DUI manslaughter, Michael Vick's Bad Newz Kennel, Plaxico Burress' gun conviction, Rae Carruth's baby-mama murder, Pacman's strip-club wilding ... should I carry on?

Now that we know the penalty, let's discuss PacBen in something resembling proper context. There is no doubt Roethlisberger is an idiot worthy of suspension. What I've yet to hear or read is a fair justification for why he deserved punishment.

When the Georgia police released the details of the notes it took during its investigation of Roethlisberger, the media cherry-picked and repeated the alleged "eyewitness" accounts as though they were as unimpeachable as a video replay.

According to the "witnesses," Roethlisberger's bodyguards dragged the accuser to the bathroom, blocked the entrance into the bathroom and Roethlisberger approached the accuser with his penis exposed.

Once these accounts were introduced as "evidence" into the court of public opinion, broadcasters and pundits had all the ammo they needed to convict Ben as "disgusting" and call for Goodell to take swift and hard action.

It was completely irresponsible. Statements made by drunken sorority girls are not facts. Statements made by sober sorority girls about an evening spent bar-hopping and drinking are not facts.

Late last week I received an e-mail from a former sorority president and current advisor to a sorority. She warned me that the media were being foolish for believing the allegations of drunken 20-somethings. She explained what she'd witnessed firsthand as a student and what she now deals with as an advisor.

Some young women use alcohol as an excuse to be sexually aggressive at fraternity houses and nightclubs and then quickly concoct a story of sexual assault when confronted by their disapproving peers. Most of these allegations never make it to police headquarters. The allegations are too sketchy and the accuser's immediate jury of peers reject them.

"I don't believe a bunch of hammered sorority girls in this situation," the former sorority president wrote. "I've seen too much bad behavior amongst them. It's all about having fun and then making sure you're not held accountable and your reputation is still good."

Big Ben's accuser was allegedly wearing a name tag that read DTF -- "down to f---." She engaged in a lewd and highly flirtatious conversation with Roethlisberger.

It's 2010 not 1910. Women vote, drive cars and knock boots at their own discretion. The popular R&B singer Usher makes songs targeted at women. His 2008 smash hit "Love in this Club" was most popular with women. Getting busy in the bathroom or getting a special "bottle service" at a VIP table are nowhere near as rare as joining the "mile high club."

If you read the police accounts, the accuser's sorority sisters drove this case. If Ben's bodyguards dragged the accuser to the bathroom, you could make the argument that her sorority sisters dragged her to the police.

Her initial story to the police was weak at best and made absolutely no sense at worst.

The case was so flimsy that Big Ben was never even arrested. Once she sobered up, the accuser didn't even cooperate with the police.

Let me repeat: PacBen is a freaking idiot who deserved to be suspended. Off the field, he thinks with the wrong head. In pursuit of a wham-bam, he's twice -- that we know of -- placed himself in a vulnerable position.

But the ugly truth is Ben isn't all that different from a lot of guys and girls who use alcohol as their aphrodisiac of choice. Any woman who has belonged to a prominent sorority has heard the lecture about safety rules to follow when entering a male fraternity house for a mixer/party.

"Don't drink the punch. It might be laced with a roofie."

"Don't go anywhere in the house alone."

The rules are reminders that no matter how nice the guy might sound there's a damn good chance he's looking for one-night-stand sex or trying to set up a train. Some of the women are looking for the exact same thing.

So why did Ben deserve suspension?

As Terry Bradshaw eloquently and appropriately explained, Ben doesn't know who he is and what position he holds. He's a millionaire franchise quarterback, an ambassador for the Steelers and the city of Pittsburgh.

He's not Usher, a rock-star sex symbol. NFL players, particularly high-profile quarterbacks, don't get to make "love in this club." That kind of behavior is way too high risk for someone under Ben's spotlight.

PacBen is no different from Pacman. They run with dumb posses. I don't know Goodell's reasoning for the length of Ben's suspension. But the commissioner should've hammered Ben for his "security" staff. Allegedly, Ben's bodyguards kept the bathroom safe from intruders while Ben attempted to or did make "love in this club."

Think about it. Ben basically hired men to hand him KY Jelly and condoms and stand guard while he had public sex. His instructions should've been this:

"Guys, if I get liquored up tonight and try to bang one of these girls, tackle me, drag me to the car, take me to my hotel, guard the door and make sure no one gets into the room with me while I'm drunk."

The accuser's sorority sisters were smarter and more mature than Ben's "bodyguards."

That should've served as the basis of Goodell's suspension.

We don't have a clue about whether the alleged bathroom sex between two drunken idiots was consensual. And we have even less knowledge about how Ben's "moral compass" compares to Herm's, Ben's peers, Goodell's or the broadcasters/pundits morally hyperventilating because Ben likes pretty young thangs.

What we know is Ben is clueless about how he should conduct himself given his position of responsibility.

E-mail Jason or follow him on Twitter. Media requests for Mr. Whitlock should be directed to Fox Sports PR.

[Irish Jet]

The Steelers aquired Byron Leftwich I read somewhere. The JETS should offer them KC for a draft pick.

Why? Clemens has been raping the Jets for years.

[Aten]

Again, disagree. You can establish a penumbra so long as it's not too far-reaching (it isn't), and somewhat defined (it is).

And I hope this goes without saying, but just to be clear I don't think the above statement applies to Law, however I do think it applies to Ethics.

Of course they are, but they're well within their right to.

Easy there, Harry. Nobody's talking about the law here, and nobody's claiming that the NFL can't employ a higher, vaguer standard of conduct and require a lower burden of proof for violations than due process and substantial justice would require. Unlike Ben's hood rats, there's no doubt that Upshaw bent over voluntarily. The problem is that the result is logically bankrupt. Essentially, Ben got six games based on some degree of possibility/probability/whatever that some rapey stuff went down. Issues with this are obvious. Either it happened or it didn't -- touching after consent is withheld or withdrawn is battery at minimum -- and Goodell doesn't know. Plus, the actual reasoning behind the suspension is so obviously abhorrent that he had to advance grounds (the underage drinking stuff) that are patently pretextual and don't even make sense. If buying 20-year old shots in a bar that has been serving and continues to serve them is the sort of thing that gets you six games we'd be watching the same two teams in the Super Bowl every year because there wouldn't be enough guys for a third.

[Aten]

"Don't drink the punch. It might be laced with a roofie."

"Don't go anywhere in the house alone."

And they tell this stuff to broads that nobody wants to nail in the first place. Imagine if everything you ever tapped had a profit motive.

[ZachEY]

[Aten]

[ZachEY]

[Aten]

[RutgersJetFan]

Lol, well there goes that discussion...