WIZARD OF OZ Mafia Game Thread

[slats]

All this scrutiny I have been under for not "getting it" that Jif's setup summary was meant to be sarcastic, and yet nobody has questioned CTM setting the hook...

And where has he been?

CTM had me concerned for a couple minutes there, too, but four minutes after the second post you're quoting above, he made this post:

Which said to me at the time that he got JiF's joke, and was just screwing around and/or setting you up.

[JustInFudge]

I'd like to point this post out again. It screams scum to me. It is an overreaction that is meant to look nonchalant. When I28 dismissed me he seemed genuinely indifferent. JiF's dismissal, however, seems to me to be one of someone who is sweating bullets because he picked up one vote.

Welcome to JN, you dont know me very well.

[Dan.]

Thanks Steve, I was just about to look for your last vote count.

Those not voting need to vote, or at the very least state their intentions. JVoR and DPR just got off of I28, not sure where AVM unvoted from.

Those of you on one or two person trains might want to think about where you might move as we get closer to the deadline tomorrow.

What is your reaction to I28's half-reveal?

I'm frustrated because I'm very cautious about reveals (for the reasons we've mentioned already), but I know I have to draw the line somewhere and take a better look at the ways people reveal.

Can we all agree that I28 has acted scummishly, and that's why he's the lynch leader?

Having said that, he's far from a sure thing, and it might be worth letting a few other people talk befoe we do him in?

I unvoted him to take the immediate pressure off, but I don't think anyone else should unless we choose a more likely candidate.

Do you have anyone in particular in mind?

[Integrity28]

Now this starts to worry me again - if you are anything other than a roleless townie, you have a role. You've implied you have a role important to the town.

I really don't think you want to play the "intepret what I say however you want to" game, 'cause I'm pretty sure everyone will interpret you lynched.

I'm not asking for info, but don't confuse things more.

I was clarifying a point - and you have made yours.

[JustInFudge]

CTM had me concerned for a couple minutes there, too, but four minutes after the second post you're quoting above, he made this post:

Which said to me at the time that he got JiF's joke, and was just screwing around and/or setting you up.

Yes, but CTM also said right before that one, that my post reeked in response to I28 getting suspicious of me giving it to him a little further by saying "I've got a feeling". Which was actually slight deflection on I28's part. He tried to make it seem as if I didnt know what I was talking about, when that was just flavor trying to make my post more silly.

[Pac]

Now this starts to worry me again - if you are anything other than a roleless townie, you have a role. You've implied you have a role important to the town.

I really don't think you want to play the "intepret what I say however you want to" game, 'cause I'm pretty sure everyone will interpret you lynched.

I'm not asking for info, but don't confuse things more.

Finally I agree with you!

The gutless reveal is one thing but to talk further about it without saying anything is stupid. As it is I think he's pretty much set himself up to be an early NK candidate. In fact if he's alive in a couple game days I'd have to wonder why.

[Jets Voice of Reason]

I wanted to unvote.

Do you feel better about I28? Do you have a better option?

Because if the monkey is scum and this train derailed cause I unvoted I'm going to kick somebody. That and I have no idea who you think is scum atm.

[AVM]

Who the heck would you prefer then?

I'm always a fan of multiple trains, and the only two with multiple votes are Lily and JiF. As for JiF, he's ALWAYS been the #1 person complaining about setups every single game, and from what I can tell the case on him is primarily because of his "setup" post. He's proved the past couple games that he gets sarcastic and crazy when bored, and already admitted to boredom again this D1. In fact, he's mentioned it several times. I don't put it past him to try and pull something crazy off, but quite frankly he seems genuinely bored to me. Most everyone is, and it's led to a lack of good cases and the fighting drama.

I've been big on voting patterns as well, and see Wombats point on him jumping on trains just getting going but let's be honest: are scum going to be that obvious on a d1 such as today? I don't really think so, IMO

That leaves Lily. Her frustrations seem genuine too, but even she has mentioned how devious she can be as scum. However, I don't think I can write her defensiveness off as scummy, or to be honest even as a frustrated, insulted townie. I'm most wishy washy on her, honestly.

If I had to put a vote, I'd reluctantly put it on JiF or Lily of our top 3. I don't buy the case on I28, but at the same time his I have a role but I'm not telling perplexes me. We've got a little bit of time, though I've got less than the rest of you.

**While I'm remembering, as I stated in the sign up thread I've got a wedding I'm in this weekend, and I leave to head up there tomorrow afternoon. I'm sure I'll be able to get on at the hotel tomorrow night, but I doubt it'll be before the deadline. With that said, I'm going to have to place my vote to lynch regardless by 3 or so tomorrow

[Integrity28]

Do you feel better about I28? Do you have a better option?

Because if the monkey is scum and this train derailed cause I unvoted I'm going to kick somebody. That and I have no idea who you think is scum atm.

I'm not scum. Relax... you are pushing a little too hard, poop might come out.

[AVM]

I never said I have a role. The word role is not in that post... I said you will regret getting rid of me. That is all I said. Interpret it how you want... with 7 votes I will not provide any more detail than that.

I see..

Now this starts to worry me again - if you are anything other than a roleless townie, you have a role. You've implied you have a role important to the town.

I really don't think you want to play the "intepret what I say however you want to" game, 'cause I'm pretty sure everyone will interpret you lynched.

I'm not asking for info, but don't confuse things more.

He may or may not have a role, but I do think that even IF he were roleless townie, he would be posting "you'll regret it if you lynch me." Look at his comments on the Star Wars game (called himself game MVP), the last game (game MVP til Predatards got bored), etc. I think he thinks himself vital to a town win.

Honestly, this kind of post bothers me from anyone, but seeing I28 play the past several games makes me think it's MOST possible he actually is town.

[JustInFudge]

I'm not scum. Relax... you are pushing a little too hard, poop might come out.

Scum or not.

Rep'd.

Monkey Brains.

[slats]

What is your reaction to I28's half-reveal?

I'm frustrated because I'm very cautious about reveals (for the reasons we've mentioned already), but I know I have to draw the line somewhere and take a better look at the ways people reveal.

I don't like it. My gut feeling is that he might be roleless, and that we'll regret lynching him because there's no way the town can win without his genius actively on our side.

I don't know how many roles there are gonna be in this game. How many roles are in the movie? We know the four or five (if you count Toto) scum team, the Wicked Witch is town, and we have to be wary of the Wizard and Good Witch who appear to be unaligned.

All townies know who the Wicked Witch is, and every other "role" that we're aware of should be ripe for a lynching, IMHO.

Someone gets to L2 around here, I expect something better than "trust me."

[SMC]

OFFICIAL VOTE COUNT--DAY 1

Lily (5) -- Vicious, Nae, I28, Pac, Barm

Barm (1) -- Hess

JiF (2) -- Runin, WWWWombat

I28 (7) -- CTM, JiF, slats, BG, Smashmouth, Lily, JVOR

Nae (1) -- DanX

THOSE NOT VOTING: AVM, DPR, Verbal, Sharrow,

With 20 Ozites in the Castle, it takes 11 to lynch.

[Jets Voice of Reason]

I'm not scum. Relax... you are pushing a little too hard, poop might come out.

lol. Nice.

[Integrity28]

What's the deal with Hess this game? Did he say he wouldn't be around?

Or did his scum teammates tell him to reel it in?

[Pac]

What's the deal with Hess this game? Did he say he wouldn't be around?

Or did his scum teammates tell him to reel it in?

He's got some things going on last I knew. I was going to give him awhile before calling him out for inactivity.

[Vicious89x]

Finally I agree with you!

The gutless reveal is one thing but to talk further about it without saying anything is stupid. As it is I think he's pretty much set himself up to be an early NK candidate. In fact if he's alive in a couple game days I'd have to wonder why.

This frightens me. I find myself agreeing with PAC. ARMAGEDDON IS UPON US.

I didn't buy up the case against i28 and have been steadfast on my vote on lily, but the "trust me" thing is not something I buy into, ever.

At this point his "reveal has" painted a big fat bullseye on himself for scum if he's innocent. Nae points out being the doc and revealing is bad. I disagree. It's a confirmed innocent if no counter-claim and they can self protect. One less mislynch. Conversely if he's truly valuable wouldn't he want the protection? Should the doc stick their neck out and protect him on a "trust me"?

Strategically it makes little sense to me.

[AVM]

What's the deal with Hess this game? Did he say he wouldn't be around?

Or did his scum teammates tell him to reel it in?

He's got some things going on last I knew. I was going to give him awhile before calling him out for inactivity.

This. If I remember correctly...he almost didn't play due to RL being busy

[DPR]

Finally I agree with you!

The gutless reveal is one thing but to talk further about it without saying anything is stupid. As it is I think he's pretty much set himself up to be an early NK candidate. In fact if he's alive in a couple game days I'd have to wonder why.

Agreed, and it might be interesting to leave him out as bait.

I'm not real comfortable with Runin. I'm okay with CTM and JiF - I think they're just doing what they do. I don't feel like anyone else has done anything standout yet.

And, I'll say this about Lily - I don't believe that she would use an rl excuse for game behavior. I'll even g further to say that people that try to use rl emergencies, or bad luck to their advantage in a game are generally discovered and looked down on. Most other players will not tolerate that, simply because when something tragic does happen, you want to be able to extend support to that person, and not think that it's a game play. If Lily says that it's the meds, then I think it's the meds.

[RuninOut]

Can we all agree that I28 has acted scummishly, and that's why he's the lynch leader?

Having said that, he's far from a sure thing, and it might be worth letting a few other people talk befoe we do him in?

I unvoted him to take the immediate pressure off, but I don't think anyone else should unless we choose a more likely candidate.

I also agree with Slats in that non-voters, and those with votes on people that have no train could go ahead and let us know that they are in the game.

I love how you are acting like a puppet master. Trying to steer the game behind the curtain so you don't get noticed. Nice

[Sharrow]

Do you feel better about I28? Do you have a better option?

Because if the monkey is scum and this train derailed cause I unvoted I'm going to kick somebody. That and I have no idea who you think is scum atm.

If you're comfortable lynching him, and you're worried about his train derailing and want him lynched, then stay on his train.

Like I said, what he's doing is either a dumb town, weak scum, or a good play. If it comes down to it, I'll vote him again tomorrow night in case it's the first two. I just need to think about it some more.

[RuninOut]

Agreed, and it might be interesting to leave him out as bait.

I'm not real comfortable with Runin. I'm okay with CTM and JiF - I think they're just doing what they do. I don't feel like anyone else has done anything standout yet.

And, I'll say this about Lily - I don't believe that she would use an rl excuse for game behavior. I'll even g further to say that people that try to use rl emergencies, or bad luck to their advantage in a game are generally discovered and looked down on. Most other players will not tolerate that, simply because when something tragic does happen, you want to be able to extend support to that person, and not think that it's a game play. If Lily says that it's the meds, then I think it's the meds.

Why are you uncomfortable with me? Are the lights down low enough? Are you drunk enough?

[Jets Voice of Reason]

If you're comfortable lynching him, and you're worried about his train derailing and want him lynched, then stay on his train.

Like I said, what he's doing is either a dumb town, weak scum, or a good play. If it comes down to it, I'll vote him again tomorrow night in case it's the first two. I just need to think about it some more.

Fair enough. I was mostly interested in hearing the reasoning.

[DPR]

I don't like it. My gut feeling is that he might be roleless, and that we'll regret lynching him because there's no way the town can win without his genius actively on our side.

The problem with that is that no one would ever listen to him again. It's one thing to parade around, make a spectacle of yourself and act like you know everything...those peope are idiots...but in this context, he's either saying he holds obvious value to the town, or he's lying scum.

I can't believe that he means that we would miss seeing him hop up and down every time organ music started to play...that would be too much.

[WWWWombat]

This frightens me. I find myself agreeing with PAC. ARMAGEDDON IS UPON US.

I didn't buy up the case against i28 and have been steadfast on my vote on lily, but the "trust me" thing is not something I buy into, ever.

At this point his "reveal has" painted a big fat bullseye on himself for scum if he's innocent. Nae points out being the doc and revealing is bad. I disagree. It's a confirmed innocent if no counter-claim and they can self protect. One less mislynch. Conversely if he's truly valuable wouldn't he want the protection? Should the doc stick their neck out and protect him on a "trust me"?

Strategically it makes little sense to me.

No counterclaim doesn't confirm a doc claimant. All it shows is that it's not endgame yet. Furthermore, I don't know how much this is like Doggin's avatar game, but hasn't SMC implied dire consequences if the remaining Wicked Witch dies?

[Sharrow]

I don't like it. My gut feeling is that he might be roleless, and that we'll regret lynching him because there's no way the town can win without his genius actively on our side.

I don't know how many roles there are gonna be in this game. How many roles are in the movie? We know the four or five (if you count Toto) scum team, the Wicked Witch is town, and we have to be wary of the Wizard and Good Witch who appear to be unaligned.

All townies know who the Wicked Witch is, and every other "role" that we're aware of should be ripe for a lynching, IMHO.

Someone gets to L2 around here, I expect something better than "trust me."

This is what I'm considering. Might as well get it out in the open. SMC said the w.witch and dorothy are searching for the wizard and good witch. At this point, if things stay the way they are with him not revealing, do dorothy and the w.witch have to take a shot at him being the good witch or wizard tonight? Would that be good or bad if he's neither and they both waste a search? If I28 is scum, is he making a play to waste the witches target? If he's town, is he making a similar play? Just a lot of stuff running through my head.

[Vicious89x]

No counterclaim doesn't confirm a doc claimant. All it shows is that it's not endgame yet. Furthermore, I don't know how much this is like Doggin's avatar game, but hasn't SMC implied dire consequences if the remaining Wicked Witch dies?

I see your point. But I still think IMO, that revealing is the right thing to do. I've revealed as doc and cop before, we won one game andnlost the other.

I just reread the OP. Where do you get that idea?

[RuninOut]

From the OP I kind of get the remaining wicked witch is more of a beloved character. Also it is one person the townies know is innocent and helps narrow their field of vision on people to look at for scum. Even though it is just one person it is still one less person to worry about.

[DPR]

Why are you uncomfortable with me? Are the lights down low enough? Are you drunk enough?

You're playing just a mite too carefully for my tastes. And maybe a bit under your ability. It's only D1 though, so no worries. Unless your scum. heh

[RuninOut]

So I have a reputation to live up to. I've got a few things I am working on, but I want to see what happens and what I can get worked out.

[DPR]

This is what I'm considering. Might as well get it out in the open. SMC said the w.witch and dorothy are searching for the wizard and good witch. At this point, if things stay the way they are with him not revealing, do dorothy and the w.witch have to take a shot at him being the good witch or wizard tonight? Would that be good or bad if he's neither and they both waste a search? If I28 is scum, is he making a play to waste the witches target? If he's town, is he making a similar play? Just a lot of stuff running through my head.

I see your point. But I still think IMO, that revealing is the right thing to do. I've revealed as doc and cop before, we won one game andnlost the other.

I just reread the OP. Where do you get that idea?

There could be a lot of things happening, and there are certainly some things happening. That's why I actually don't think it's a good idea for anyone to reveal yet. Revealing just sets endgame into motion, and takes away from the chances that the best strategy will win.

[slats]

The problem with that is that no one would ever listen to him again. It's one thing to parade around, make a spectacle of yourself and act like you know everything...those peope are idiots...but in this context, he's either saying he holds obvious value to the town, or he's lying scum.

I can't believe that he means that we would miss seeing him hop up and down every time organ music started to play...that would be too much.

What do you make of this, then?

I never said I have a role. The word role is not in that post... I said you will regret getting rid of me. That is all I said. Interpret it how you want... with 7 votes I will not provide any more detail than that.

[DPR]

What do you make of this, then?

First and foremost, I think it's crap. That's why I said for him to avoid being confusing.

I think it's fair enough to guess that SMC didn't say "YOUR ROLE IS...", so technically, the word "role" doesn't have to be mentioned.

Then again, it's not out o fht equestion that SMC would inlcude weapons or objects like I did in the last game. You could see a bicycle, and axe, or any number of other objects (lollipop? ewwww...) that technically wouldn't be roles, but would amount to the same thing.

You got any thoughts on it?

[Dan.]

This is what I'm considering. Might as well get it out in the open. SMC said the w.witch and dorothy are searching for the wizard and good witch. At this point, if things stay the way they are with him not revealing, do dorothy and the w.witch have to take a shot at him being the good witch or wizard tonight? Would that be good or bad if he's neither and they both waste a search? If I28 is scum, is he making a play to waste the witches target? If he's town, is he making a similar play? Just a lot of stuff running through my head.

Well since you've said it first ... I strongly agree that certain things hang in a delicate balance this game, especially with certain players' alignments undecided, and we must proceed carefully.

I will unvote Naeann and sleep on this. Be back in the morning before heading to work. Maybe I'll have another less-than-magical, I28-themed dream/nightmare, hehe.

[Barmacral]

You're playing just a mite too carefully for my tastes. And maybe a bit under your ability. It's only D1 though, so no worries. Unless your scum. heh

Good point, he's not giving off a blatantly scummy vibe to me yet, so clearly he's doing something different, which is enough to make me suspicious of him. Poor kid is caught in a Catch 22.