Michael Vick for MVP

[Smashmouth]

Vick did terrible things and it was a sign of a depraved character.

But he went to jail for it and paid his debt to society. The character issues are still there, but unless he acts on it again I don't know how anyone can say he shouldn't play or be prevented from getting the MVP if he statistically deserves it.

He wasn't going to serve more time than he did. Plus, thank God for the federal prosecutors because the POS Virginia prosecutor planned to let Vick walk without even charging him. If the later happened that would have been a disgrace, but the federal prosecutors made sure justice was done.

SMC I agree with you, I don't think he should be banned from the NFL, or his chance to make a living. I also feel he did his time. That being said, hes still a poor excuse for a human being. I think we all know deep down he only regrets what he did for his own selfish reasons, not because he felt bad about what he did to those dogs which is the reason he went to jail and ruined his career. I firmly believe he would have no problem doing the same things to a person if the opportunity presented itself Like what I mentioned above. If someone walked up on what was going on and threatened to turn him in.

[The Crusher]

What I dont understand is why people feel the f*cking need to compare things such as wife beating and killing dogs. Whats the f*cking point. If someone has the lack of conscience to be so cruel as to drown a freakin puppy do you think for a second they would think twice about putting a bullet in your head or beating their wife ?? It all goes hand in hand.

Yanks9596 Lets say you walked up on Vicks property and saw what was going on and told Mr Vick in the seclusion of his large acreage that you were going turn him in to the athorities, do you think you would have left there alive ? With all he had at stake your a$$ would have never been seen again.

The real issue is people who perform these hidious acts will probably perform them on humans just as easily. Most serial killers have killed Pets as children and thats a documented fact. When you compare shooting game animals to drowning puppies that people take into their responsibility as pets its a very different situation. When you compare it to beating ones wife thats just plain stupid. In my life time people have been much crueler to me than any of my pets would ever think of being.

Ill give you a story to show just how cruel people can be. A guy I worked with owned Pit Bulls, 2 of them to be exact. His dogs were known throughout the neighborhood and very well liked. They were big babies to be honest. One day one of the dogs got out and came upon a mother and her son who actully knew the dog. The dog was actully wagging its tail and licking them, the husband seeing this from the window got his gun ( In full View of onlookers) and walked up to the dog and put 4 bullets into him. IN FRONT of his son and wife. How ya think that kids gonna turn out ? What kind of person does this ? Not only was the person I know totally devistated but the entire neighborhood was. Now if that dog had them pinned or was attacking them I would have had no issue at all with what he did. All he got charged with was discharging a firearm.

The only animal on this planet that kills for sport, for war, for greed, and sometimes for no damn reason at all is the human being, and were supposed to be the Smart ones with higher intelligence?

My pitbull got out while I was away and ran up to a family and thank God they where good people who have seen my dog being walked by myself and my son. They took him home and called me and the only problem we had was his 6 year old daughter screamed and cried when I took him home. My Dad helped place a rescue dog at their home.

Honestly if someone did that to my Tu Pac I would have ******* beat him within an inch of his life. He already ****ed his kids up, what a little more truama?

[Pac]

My pitbull got out while I was away and ran up to a family and thank God they where good people who have seen my dog being walked by myself and my son. They took him home and called me and the only problem we had was his 6 year old daughter screamed and cried when I took him home. My Dad helped place a rescue dog at their home.

Honestly if someone did that to my Tu Pac I would have ******* beat him within an inch of his life. He already ****ed his kids up, what a little more truama?

I'm not a gun guy but if I was and a pit bull ran up to my 6 yr old and I taking a walk I would shoot first and ask questions later. period.

That dog has killed or mamed too many kids... they just have. and usually the owners talk about how the dog "never showed agressive tendencies before"...

and I'm not talking about a dog walking up and licking.. I'm saying a dog running up to us.

[SMC]

SMC I agree with you, I don't think he should be banned from the NFL, or his chance to make a living. I also feel he did his time. That being said, hes still a poor excuse for a human being. I think we all know deep down he only regrets what he did for his own selfish reasons, not because he felt bad about what he did to those dogs which is the reason he went to jail and ruined his career. I firmly believe he would have no problem doing the same things to a person if the opportunity presented itself Like what I mentioned above. If someone walked up on what was going on and threatened to turn him in.

I agree with your take on Vick's character. The crime he comitted, being the Don King of dog fighting and being part of the mistreatment of these dogs reveals a real depravity. And, yes, likely he's remorseful for getting caught rather than what he did.

But for me I can't truly tell. What if he was really remorseful? He did become a spokesman for PETA. That may be just for show BUT he is doing all the right things.

No matter how deplorable his crime was, the positive aspect of it is that there is a low chance of compulsion and recidivism. Vick isn't a pedophile. Pedophiles can't control their urges and are pretty much guaranteed to not only fantasize about their vile acts but be compelled to do them again.

Vick isn't walking down the street sizing up dogs and wishing to get them in the dog fighting pit or wishing to electrocute the neighbor's dog for barking.

[The Crusher]

I'm not a gun guy but if I was and a pit bull ran up to my 6 yr old and I taking a walk I would shoot first and ask questions later. period.

That dog has killed or mamed too many kids... they just have. and usually the owners talk about how the dog "never showed agressive tendencies before"...

My dog ran up wagging his tail and started acting in a submissive manner as the little girl giggle and rubbed his belly. My Dog has never killed anyone. You might be referring to the breed. I have 5 kids and they all have their limbs. Your just ignorant and know nothing about dogs and I would have beat you into a ******* coma.

With the pitbull breed or any of the bull breeds, the owner makes the dog. People who have never had a dog or are naturally stupid should not have this breed because they can be dangerous. yet, dogs like Chows and some of the smaller breeds are more likely to bight.

My dog shows aggressive tendency towards suirrels and cats, its the hunt instinct. He adores other dogs and people.

[Pac]

My dog ran up wagging his tail and started acting in a submissive manner as the little girl giggle and rubbed his belly. My Dog has never killed anyone. You might be referring to the breed. I have 5 kids and they all have their limbs. Your just ignorant and know nothing about dogs and I would have beat you into a ******* coma.

With the pitbull breed or any of the bull breeds, the owner makes the dog. People who have never had a dog or are naturally stupid should not have this breed because they can be dangerous. yet, dogs like Chows and some of the smaller breeds are more likely to bight.

My dog shows aggressive tendency towards suirrels and cats, its the hunt instinct. He adores other dogs and people.

I OWNED a goddam pitbull for 5 years! Loved the dog, she loved me, never mistreated her, she was always happy. Then one day she got out of her leash and decided to attack the chinese food delivery guy while I was paying him. Whether or not you want to believe it that breed has a genetic predispostion towards violence. That doesn't mean they are ALL dangerous... just that they, more than any other breed, have been known to attack out of nowhere. And I'm not talking about a chow nipping at you I'm talking about a unrelenting, potentially lethal, attack.

and I was sure to say that I would shoot if the dog was RUNNING up to us.. not walking,wagging it's tail, or being submissive. I'd rather be accused of ignorance then to take the chance a fast approaching Pit is just being friendly.

[The Crusher]

I OWNED a goddam pitbull for 5 years! Loved the dog, she loved me, never mistreated her, she was always happy. Then one day she got out of her leash and decided to attack the chinese food delivery guy while I was paying him. Whether or not you want to believe it that breed has a genetic predispostion towards violence. That doesn't mean they are ALL dangerous... just that they, more than any other breed, have been known to attack out of nowhere. And I'm not talking about a chow nipping at you I'm talking about a unrelenting, potentially lethal, attack.

and I was sure to say that I would shoot if the dog was RUNNING up to us.. not walking,wagging it's tail, or being submissive. I'd rather be accused of ignorance then to take the chance a fast approaching Pit is just being friendly.

It does not have a genetic predisposition to violence. They don;t even know what violence is. They are naturally aggressive and have a very strong hunt instinct. People have made them violent.

Female pit bulls seem to be more aggressive to males. Very protective.

My dog runs free from his leash all around the yard and people walk in my house constnatly with never an issue. Truth is Pac, if any did get bit I could see a pizza delivery guy being the one. These dogs protect their family and the doorway is a place where you do have to be careful.

I always put my dog in a sit and use my voice to set a passive tone for him. I have never taught him to be aggressive ever, because they come that way, We have always babied the shiit out of him and have had him around people constantly.

My biggest concern with my dog is someone challenging the fence in the yard when he is alone with my kids. If I start to play attack my little ones he will get between us and "huff" at me. Funny thing is my kids can beat the piss out of me and he will join in the fun.

I apologize for snapping at you but I love this dog with all my heart and I just got angry at the thought of someone shooting him because he happens to look like he could be dangerous. My bad bro.

[Pac]

It does not have a genetic predisposition to violence. They don;t even know what violence is. They are naturally aggressive and have a very strong hunt instinct. People have made them violent.

Female pit bulls seem to be more aggressive to males. Very protective.

My dog runs free from his leash all around the yard and people walk in my house constnatly with never an issue. Truth is Pac, if any did get bit I could see a pizza delivery guy being the one. These dogs protect their family and the doorway is a place where you do have to be careful.

I always put my dog in a sit and use my voice to set a passive tone for him. I have never taught him to be aggressive ever, because they come that way, We have always babied the shiit out of him and have had him around people constantly.

My biggest concern with my dog is someone challenging the fence in the yard when he is alone with my kids. If I start to play attack my little ones he will get between us and "huff" at me. Funny thing is my kids can beat the piss out of me and he will join in the fun.

I apologize for snapping at you but I love this dog with all my heart and I just got angry at the thought of someone shooting him because he happens to look like he could be dangerous. My bad bro.

No problem man... I don't mind spirited debate. Besides it's not like that's the first time you threatened to beat me into a coma.

I think given the environment you seemed to have raised your pit in the overwhelming majority of Pits would NOT attack... I just wouldn't take that chance with my son man. That's all.

[JiFtheOracle]

My dog ran up wagging his tail and started acting in a submissive manner as the little girl giggle and rubbed his belly. My Dog has never killed anyone. You might be referring to the breed. I have 5 kids and they all have their limbs. Your just ignorant and know nothing about dogs and I would have beat you into a ******* coma.

With the pitbull breed or any of the bull breeds, the owner makes the dog. People who have never had a dog or are naturally stupid should not have this breed because they can be dangerous. yet, dogs like Chows and some of the smaller breeds are more likely to bight.

My dog shows aggressive tendency towards suirrels and cats, its the hunt instinct. He adores other dogs and people.

My whole family has Pits. Greatest dogs in the world. All sweet as could be an are scared of their own shadow.

My 4 year old nephew and his 7 year old Pit, Kona, are best friends. Kona follows him every where and my nephew does whatever he wants to that dog and the dog loves it. Its ALL about how you raise Pits. The ones in my family are more prone to lick you to death than to even dare take a snap.

[JohnnyHector]

Truth is Pac, if any did get bit I could see a pizza delivery guy being the one. These dogs protect their family and the doorway is a place where you do have to be careful.

Any chance you live near Gato?

[The Crusher]

My whole family has Pits. Greatest dogs in the world. All sweet as could be an are scared of their own shadow.

My 4 year old nephew and his 7 year old Pit, Kona, are best friends. Kona follows him every where and my nephew does whatever he wants to that dog and the dog loves it. Its ALL about how you raise Pits. The ones in my family are more prone to lick you to death than to even dare take a snap.

not my Tu Pac. I rescued him on his 1st birthday. Never fixed him cause I love him and his testicles are impressive. He is actually very passive and mild because he is a huge pit. He's a blue nose and weigh about 84 pounds. He is afraid of nothing. I walk him on lead and other dogs go apesh*t barking at him and he huffs at them, wags his tale, pisses on something and moves on. He rna up ona small dog once, the dog bit him, he raised his leg and tinkled on him. Was funny.

My kids abused the hell out of him. he can be laying on his back and they will jump on his head and he will just flip around and trying to lay all over them. Even when he eats or chews rawhide, you can lay your face on his aor grab it and he will wrassle you for it. He has never growled once while eating. Never.

Great Dog but he was raised like baby. I would have great fear if some idiot raised him to be aggressive. I wrassle him with this towing rope I have and he is brutally powerful. At Bay Crusher's 12th B-Day party he tug a warred against baby Crusher and 3 friends and dragged them like rag dolls. Twas teh awesome. I love my Tu Pac and he loves me.

[The Crusher]

Any chance you live near Gato?

Cats and Squirrels are not ok. Furry and yummy.

[SMC]

Any chance you live near Gato?

[Boozer76]

Vick did terrible things and it was a sign of a depraved character.

But he went to jail for it and paid his debt to society. The character issues are still there, but unless he acts on it again I don't know how anyone can say he shouldn't play or be prevented from getting the MVP if he statistically deserves it.

He wasn't going to serve more time than he did. Plus, thank God for the federal prosecutors because the POS Virginia prosecutor planned to let Vick walk without even charging him. If the later happened that would have been a disgrace, but the federal prosecutors made sure justice was done.

This is not how I remember it at all. Let me preface this by saying I hate the guy and what he did, but VA was gonna go hardcore on him. Vick never actually served any time at all for harming dogs. He served for leading an illegal gambling ring across state lines. VA wanted to tack on their punishment on top of the Federal case, however there was push back because of the cost to extradite Vick while in prison for a lengthy trial, and as I recall there was a perception of trying to pile on to Vick because of his status (and as some might say his color). VA eventually relented. VA had the jurisdiction to actually prosecute him for harming animals.

[RutgersJetFan]

I love him and his testicles are impressive.

Sig-worthy via shameless selective editing.

[nycdan]

"I love him and his testicles are impressive"

Sig-worthy via shameless selective editing.

Drop the last two words and it gets far more entertaining for sig use.

[SMC]

This is not how I remember it at all. Let me preface this by saying I hate the guy and what he did, but VA was gonna go hardcore on him. Vick never actually served any time at all for harming dogs. He served for leading an illegal gambling ring across state lines. VA wanted to tack on their punishment on top of the Federal case, however there was push back because of the cost to extradite Vick while in prison for a lengthy trial, and as I recall there was a perception of trying to pile on to Vick because of his status (and as some might say his color). VA eventually relented. VA had the jurisdiction to actually prosecute him for harming animals.

I remember it differently, Boozer.

The VA DA dragged his feet throughout the process, held a couple of press conferences, and generally said there wasn't enough evidence. PFT killed him for it. The Feds swept in and charged Vick under RICO. So, yes, the Feds didn't charge him with dog fighting or killing. Instead, they used those 2 (along with criminal gambling) as the predicate criminal acts in violation of RICO. It's similar to running a cross-state-lines prostitution ring, or drug smuggling, or arms dealing.

The VA DA looked like a total dope when the Feds stepped in and fast tracked Vick, considering that the VA DA had dragged his feet. The DA later said he wanted to try to charge Vick with dogfighting, but didn't.

And, BTW, its not expensive to extradite someoneone from 1 state to another. States do it routinely. All VA had to do is issue a warrant and if Vick was in Georgia the Georgia police would be required to arrest him.

[Irish Jet]

I don't think Vick is/was inately evil. From what I remember hearing he was brought up around dog fighting at a young age and was anyone really there to tell him how atrocious it was? Did he really have the kind of guidance to get him out of that situation? I'm not sure, but listening to him speak he doesn't strike me as a scumbag who is a danger to society. Just a man who was incredibly ignorant who made a ton of mistakes. It's tough to crucify him for it without knowing the full circumstances as to why he turned out as twisted as he did, my guess is he was a product of a very, very bad environment and it took jail time and national disgust to really make him realise the pure evil he was inflicting on the animals. I genuinely don't think he was even aware how disgusting his actions were, it probably all seemed like a bit of fun to him, something he did as a kid. No different to what fishing/hunting would be like to us.

He was ****ed up in the head, but I don't think he was pure scum.

[CTM]

Vick did terrible things and it was a sign of a depraved character.

But he went to jail for it and paid his debt to society. The character issues are still there, but unless he acts on it again I don't know how anyone can say he shouldn't play or be prevented from getting the MVP if he statistically deserves it.

He wasn't going to serve more time than he did. Plus, thank God for the federal prosecutors because the POS Virginia prosecutor planned to let Vick walk without even charging him. If the later happened that would have been a disgrace, but the federal prosecutors made sure justice was done.

well i never said he should be deprived anything by rule or law.. I agree with you there, which is why i hope he gets injured before he inks the next big deal

[Smashmouth]

I'm not a gun guy but if I was and a pit bull ran up to my 6 yr old and I taking a walk I would shoot first and ask questions later. period.

That dog has killed or mamed too many kids... they just have. and usually the owners talk about how the dog "never showed agressive tendencies before"...

and I'm not talking about a dog walking up and licking.. I'm saying a dog running up to us.

Your missing the point they knew the dog. This was not a stray the whole damn neighborhood knew the dogs,

[Smashmouth]

I agree with your take on Vick's character. The crime he comitted, being the Don King of dog fighting and being part of the mistreatment of these dogs reveals a real depravity. And, yes, likely he's remorseful for getting caught rather than what he did.

But for me I can't truly tell. What if he was really remorseful? He did become a spokesman for PETA. That may be just for show BUT he is doing all the right things.

No matter how deplorable his crime was, the positive aspect of it is that there is a low chance of compulsion and recidivism. Vick isn't a pedophile. Pedophiles can't control their urges and are pretty much guaranteed to not only fantasize about their vile acts but be compelled to do them again.

Vick isn't walking down the street sizing up dogs and wishing to get them in the dog fighting pit or wishing to electrocute the neighbor's dog for barking.

Excellent points.

[Boozer76]

I remember it differently, Boozer.

The VA DA dragged his feet throughout the process, held a couple of press conferences, and generally said there wasn't enough evidence. PFT killed him for it. The Feds swept in and charged Vick under RICO. So, yes, the Feds didn't charge him with dog fighting or killing. Instead, they used those 2 (along with criminal gambling) as the predicate criminal acts in violation of RICO. It's similar to running a cross-state-lines prostitution ring, or drug smuggling, or arms dealing.

The VA DA looked like a total dope when the Feds stepped in and fast tracked Vick, considering that the VA DA had dragged his feet. The DA later said he wanted to try to charge Vick with dogfighting, but didn't.

And, BTW, its not expensive to extradite someoneone from 1 state to another. States do it routinely. All VA had to do is issue a warrant and if Vick was in Georgia the Georgia police would be required to arrest him.

I think we're both right now that I think about. Up to the point Vick was charged by the Feds I do now recall alot of reports on VA dragging their feet. What I recall was when Vick was already being prosecuted by the Feds up to after he was convicted. VA would have had to pay to extradite him for all court appearances since Vick was already incarcerated in another state by the Feds. That cost is understandable prohibitive.

[Blackout]

he's gonna get it

[DMaynard]

I don't think Vick is/was inately evil. From what I remember hearing he was brought up around dog fighting at a young age and was anyone really there to tell him how atrocious it was? Did he really have the kind of guidance to get him out of that situation? I'm not sure, but listening to him speak he doesn't strike me as a scumbag who is a danger to society. Just a man who was incredibly ignorant who made a ton of mistakes. It's tough to crucify him for it without knowing the full circumstances as to why he turned out as twisted as he did, my guess is he was a product of a very, very bad environment and it took jail time and national disgust to really make him realise the pure evil he was inflicting on the animals. I genuinely don't think he was even aware how disgusting his actions were, it probably all seemed like a bit of fun to him, something he did as a kid. No different to what fishing/hunting would be like to us.

He was ****ed up in the head, but I don't think he was pure scum.

Dog fighting, as bad as it is, is one thing. But to routinely kill dogs that lose in vicious and depraved manners? Yes, he is pure scum.

[T0mShane]

I'm 100% in support of Vick at this point. Forget what he's done on the field, which is surreal, but I've been really impressed with his interviews and obvious maturity since he came back. He's clearly worked with someone on his diction so he could stop sounding like Lil' John after a root canal, and he's been answering every question that's come his way and not hiding behind press releases and contrived PR crap. He's the best player in the NFL right now and he could just sit back and tell the world to kiss his a$$, but he hasn't shied away from the media, nor has he gotten defensive in the face of the 9,000,000,000th dog-fighting question. Kudos to him.

[DMaynard]

I'm 100% in support of Vick at this point. Forget what he's done on the field, which is surreal, but I've been really impressed with his interviews and obvious maturity since he came back. He's clearly worked with someone on his diction so he could stop sounding like Lil' John after a root canal, and he's been answering every question that's come his way and not hiding behind press releases and contrived PR crap. He's the best player in the NFL right now and he could just sit back and tell the world to kiss his a$$, but he hasn't shied away from the media, nor has he gotten defensive in the face of the 9,000,000,000th dog-fighting question. Kudos to him.

I think he has been coached on more than just his diction. Is it just a PR act or has he become a better person? None of us know what is in his heart. I am cynical about people in these situations (i.e. - see politicians). But I hope I am wrong. It looks like he is going to be around for awhile. If it is just an act, he will slip up/screw up eventually. I'd rather marvel at his skills (already proven) and celebrate his rehabilitation (to be determined) than continually be reminded of his past.

[T0mShane]

I think he has been coached on more than just his diction. Is it just a PR act or has he become a better person? None of us know what is in his heart. I am cynical about people in these situations (i.e. - see politicians). But I hope I am wrong. It looks like he is going to be around for awhile. If it is just an act, he will slip up/screw up eventually. I'd rather marvel at his skills (already proven) and celebrate his rehabilitation (to be determined) than continually be reminded of his past.

Awesome post, D. IF he's truly rehabilitated himself, it's a great story. Early signs are good, though. It'd just be nice to see one of these reclamation projects actually work out.

[DMaynard]

Awesome post, D. IF he's truly rehabilitated himself, it's a great story. Early signs are good, though. It'd just be nice to see one of these reclamation projects actually work out.

Thanks. Speaking of his skills, I still can't get over that scramble. No, not the one where he ducked under the guy and ran up the middle. That was great. But the one where he scrambled to his left and ran up the sideline. Aaron Ross (a fairly fast CB) changed his angle of pursuit TWICE, and Vick still blew by him. I haven't seen something like that since a guy by the name of Bob Hayes played.

[Damaged89]

Thanks. Speaking of his skills, I still can't get over that scramble. No, not the one where he ducked under the guy and ran up the middle. That was great. But the one where he scrambled to his left and ran up the sideline. Aaron Ross (a fairly fast CB) changed his angle of pursuit TWICE, and Vick still blew by him. I haven't seen something like that since a guy by the name of Bob Hayes played.

The thing that bums me out is it took prison and bankruptcy to force him to take his job seriously. Imagine if he wasn't a vicious sociopath and had put the time in to be great before he was 30. He's still a freak of nature obviously, but if he could have played the position as well as he does now when he was 25/26 and more athletic.. We'll never know but IMO he would have transcended the Manning/Brady tier of player.

[32GreenIsGod]

I like cats.

[donboyO]

Vick is the better player and QB, give the MVP to Vick

[SoFlaJets]

Brady's a lock

[Thai Jet]

he's gonna get it

Hate to say it but Cindy would get my vote way before Vick.

[Thai Jet]

Dog fighting, as bad as it is, is one thing. But to routinely kill dogs that lose in vicious and depraved manners? Yes, he is pure scum.

Couldn't agree more. I think the "new" Vick is just a PR ploy nothing more. Now he'd like to own a dog again , pleeeeeese.

[New York Mick]

Couldn't agree more. I think the "new" Vick is just a PR ploy nothing more. Now he'd like to own a dog again , pleeeeeese.

Vick owning a dog would be like a pedophile adopting a kid.