PSL default and stub hub

[Section 333]

I don't want this topic to turn into a PSL verse nine PSL pissing match. ( this means u SAR)

 

but I thought I'd start this topic for people who want to know. I know there's been lots of topics about PSL's and lots of discussions but I didn't actually see one about the default process. 

I have four PSL's in the mezzanine. When I bring friends to games they pay me face. Anybody with Internet can clearly see that the seats can be had for $80 when I pay 125. 

If That isn't bad enough now I have my PSL invoice sitting on my dresser in the amount of $3200. Not so much the amount that bugs me. It's the fact that once I pay off $16,000 for my for PSL's the market value of those said PSL's are only about $1000 each. 

I enjoy sitting in the same section for every game. But not for $8000 a year. 

I decided to explore the default process so I called Jets yesterday. They will refund any remaining tickets after November 1 because that's what I will go to default. So five games left I will get back 2500 and I'm out of the PSL. Obviously they do keep my deposit any money I've paid towards the PSL. To me that's worth it not to have to pay another $3200. 

I will continue to go to six or seven games year. Maybe I'll be priced out in the New England game and maybe I'll be priced out of opening day ( although wouldn't have happened for the Browns game this year) besides a premium game like the Saints or like Denver or the patriots every other game can be had well below face. 

I did ask while I had her on the phone about availability and 300s. I refuse to sit as high up as I used to to me it's not even worth going anymore. The lady told me anything lower than row 15 is all sold out in the 300s. 

It's amazing that the Jets made sh*t seats worth something because people don't want to pay the PSL. Woody is  smarter than I thought.

 

[Maxman]

This is interesting. So they will just let you default and will refund ticket money for this year? Are they going to pursue the PSL money since you signed for it?

I always wondered, if they can still sell the PSLs maybe they will take the default with a smile and double dip by selling it again.

Interesting.

[Maxman]

I know my section you can get pretty much at or slightly above face for most games. Except maybe two per year. If you site those games out you can save a lot of money.

[jgb]

I'd be stunned if they sue fans or send them to collections for defaulting. You can be legally right but business wrong, this would be an example of that.

[Section 333]

This is interesting. So they will just let you default and will refund ticket money for this year? Are they going to pursue the PSL money since you signed for it?

I always wondered, if they can still sell the PSLs maybe they will take the default with a smile and double dip by selling it again.

Interesting.

yes they refund any remaining ticket money. Must be a common practice, the rep was awfully good at explaining the process.

u hit the nail on the head with the double dip. They will pocket my 2k deposit and possibly sell it all over again next year. Was a decent seat so I'm guessing they will. 

[Section 333]

I didn't answer part 2 of ur question. No they don't Persue anything as far as owed PSL balance. 

Like most of us that bought them I never actually read the full contract. I suppose they could come after me. But if you think about it ,yes I signed a contract but I got nothing for it I paid full price for all the tickets I bought and they're keeping my $2000 deposit. 

Who's the big winner in the casino tonight?woody is the big winner that's who, Woodys the big winner , woody wins!!

 

 

 

[Section 333]

Forgot to mention  she told me they won't come after me. 

[Jetsfanri]

That is very interesting.  I bought 2 PSL seats in the Lexus Club when the stadium opened, and even when the team was performing well, the seats were virtually unsalable on the open market...clearly the Jets dumped tickets to brokers to allow them to sell below cost.  This was exactly opposite of what they told me in the sales process.

So last November, I told them I will not be paying my PSL invoice go forward.  They didn't offer any kind of "walk away" like you seem to have been offered.  I told them I wanted to move to a less expensive seat in the lower bowl, because those seats may have some resale value.  Ultimately, they agreed, but only if the PSL was of similar value.

Despite being a huge fan and a season ticket holder, unless they are playing one of the big travelling teams or the Patriots, there is little demand for Jets tickets beyond 60,000 seats.  As I've mentioned in other threads, I think ultimately the Jets will lower the capacity of the stadium by closing the upper end zones with a trap.  This would lower the capacity and probably drive up resale value, making season tickets more desirable.  I know that sounds counter-intuitive, but many other teams have done it (Dolphins, Redskins, Raiders, Jacksonville).

 

[shuler82]

That is very interesting.  I bought 2 PSL seats in the Lexus Club when the stadium opened, and even when the team was performing well, the seats were virtually unsalable on the open market...clearly the Jets dumped tickets to brokers to allow them to sell below cost.  This was exactly opposite of what they told me in the sales process.

So last November, I told them I will not be paying my PSL invoice go forward.  They didn't offer any kind of "walk away" like you seem to have been offered.  I told them I wanted to move to a less expensive seat in the lower bowl, because those seats may have some resale value.  Ultimately, they agreed, but only if the PSL was of similar value.

Despite being a huge fan and a season ticket holder, unless they are playing one of the big travelling teams or the Patriots, there is little demand for Jets tickets beyond 60,000 seats.  As I've mentioned in other threads, I think ultimately the Jets will lower the capacity of the stadium by closing the upper end zones with a trap.  This would lower the capacity and probably drive up resale value, making season tickets more desirable.  I know that sounds counter-intuitive, but many other teams have done it (Dolphins, Redskins, Raiders, Jacksonville).

 

not at the current pricing. I waited 8 years on the waiting list in the late 90s/early 2000s when upper deck tix were $25 a pop and lowers were $50

[Dcat]

This is interesting. So they will just let you default and will refund ticket money for this year? Are they going to pursue the PSL money since you signed for it?

I always wondered, if they can still sell the PSLs maybe they will take the default with a smile and double dip by selling it again.

Interesting.

Bingo. That is exactly what they do.  

[Maxman]

My PSL is $2500, lower level end zone. I waited for the 50% sale on the 5k end zone PSLs. So glad I waited.

[jgb]

My PSL is $2500, lower level end zone. I waited for the 50% sale on the 5k end zone PSLs. So glad I waited.

imho it's worth it. looking at entertainment as an investment is not logical. that's like expecting a monetary return on my $2000 TV and $300 cable bill. do you enjoy it? if so, it's worth it.

[Section 333]

2k for a tv for 10 years vs 5 years of psl  pmts and my seats is 39k . Hardly a fair comparison. If it was me and some friends and all I had was 1 psl and 1 seat I'd probably do it. But to pay for 4 seats I've decided not worth it. 

[Section 333]

My PSL is $2500, lower level end zone. I waited for the 50% sale on the 5k end zone PSLs. So glad I waited.

how did u get it for half? I thought mezzanine a and lower endzone were all 4K.

[joewilly12]

Woody Johnson and the Jets organization thanks for your PSL donation. 

[JETSfaninNE]

So happy my brother and I decided to drop season tickets the year before the PSLs went in place.  Sounds like such a mess honestly and after being at the game 2 weeks ago made me realize again, I prefer watching the game at home anyway.  I loved the tailgate and seeing a bunch of people I haven't seen in a long time but I also like watching all of the football games and dealing with 3 hr rides home after the game and getting home just in time for the Sunday late games just isn't for me anymore.

The reason people aren't going to games and the tickets are cheap is pretty much because the NFL made Football too good on TV.  Its the ultimate TV sport now.

[ECURB]

I have had a few moments of regret when the team is doing badly (I am at $30k total in PSLs...)

In the end though I am very happy with my seats and very happy I was able to buy my way into them. Is there ups and downs? Sure but I went into this expecting that.

The flaw in the process is I think some people let themselves be over sold.

[Flushing Roots]

I have had a few moments of regret when the team is doing badly (I am at $30k total in PSLs...)

In the end though I am very happy with my seats and very happy I was able to buy my way into them. Is there ups and downs? Sure but I went into this expecting that.

The flaw in the process is I think some people let themselves be over sold.

Giant fans have profited from better value with their seats/PSLs.

I am in 340 Row 8.  The PSLs for those same seats for the Giants on the secondary market are going for over $3K.

The cost on those in 2009 were $1000 each.

If the Jets were relevant the last 4 years the value of our seats and PSLs would be much higher. 

 

 

[jgb]

2k for a tv for 10 years vs 5 years of psl  pmts and my seats is 39k . Hardly a fair comparison. If it was me and some friends and all I had was 1 psl and 1 seat I'd probably do it. But to pay for 4 seats I've decided not worth it. 

a man walks up to a pair of newlyweds and offers $5,000 to sleep with the bride for one night. the groom is very upset and tells the man "I would never let another man touch my wife for $5,000!" the man takes out his checkbook and responds, "so we're just negotiating over price."

The point is, we spend money on entertainment all the time without expecting a financial return. perhaps the TV is worth it to you but the PSL is not. however it is just a matter of price versus perceived value of enjoyment, not one that refutes my assertion that entertainment is itself the "return" one should expect.

[no psls]

PSLs are for boobs .

[Bugg]

I'd be stunned if they sue fans or send them to collections for defaulting. You can be legally right but business wrong, this would be an example of that.

Exactly our experience. No sports franchise is going to sue their own fans. It would be a PR disaster. 

[rex-n-effect]

Exactly our experience. No sports franchise is going to sue their own fans. It would be a PR disaster. 

Additionally it would be financially disadvantageous. Most of the people who may default lack the nonexempt assets to lose to a judgment so not only would the team not recover on the PSL but it would also waste a pile of money on litigation fees. The people likely to have the nonexempt assets to grab are likely to have already paid off the PSLs or have no interest in defaulting.

[rex-n-effect]

Giant fans have profited from better value with their seats/PSLs.

I am in 340 Row 8.  The PSLs for those same seats for the Giants on the secondary market are going for over $3K.

The cost on those in 2009 were $1000 each.

If the Jets were relevant the last 4 years the value of our seats and PSLs would be much higher. 

It does make one wonder how much of the push to get Farve and the subsequent 09-10 exhaustion of the cap was designed to drive up the perceived value of PSLs.

And if one thinks that was partially Tannenbaum's job during that time period then is it any surprise the Dolphins are selling PSLs to a $350MM stadium upgrade announced earlier this year?

[Hofstra Jets]

I bought a PSL when the stadium opened in Mezz A.. I bought 1 ticket, and my friends followed suit in the same section and rows as me. We had a great time in our seats, but the seats just became way to expensive. I can understand 125 a game, but having to pay that in the lean years is really draining. In years past when the team stunk, paying 75 bucks, or less was OK. Now wit the dominance of StubHub and the secondary market in general, it will always be a buyers market. Sellers are really behind the 8 ball when it comes to high priced tickets now. 

This season I dropped my seats before the season started. All games could have been had for well under face value. Browns game, Mezz A was about 30 bucks 24 hours to kickoff. Even the Eagles game which had a high demand, that demand was for the cheapest seats in the UD. A Mezz A seat could have been had for 115 in a very similar section. 10 bucks less than face, for a game that was as popular as it gets for a Jets game of recent memory. That being said, I saved 300 dollars in the preseason alone. 

I had paid off the PSL in the very beginning of the stadium, and did not want to incur financing fees, but my friends were not as lucky. The interest rates on these things are astronomical. I am sure the Jets will not go after anyone, but who knows what will be the case down the road. 

I do not regret buying a PSL. We made great friends around our seats, and ones that I hope to keep with me for a long time. I will say this though, the moment the Jets became a nuisance expense (125 a game, for a 4-12 team), I dropped the tickets. I do not regret that at all. I went to the Eagles game via a message boarder here, and sat in my old seats in Mezz A. Since we all dropped our seats, being in the section without all of my friends was not the same. It kind of sucked. I will be at the Washington game, hoping for better results. 

[Flushing Roots]

It does make one wonder how much of the push to get Farve and the subsequent 09-10 exhaustion of the cap was designed to drive up the perceived value of PSLs.

And if one thinks that was partially Tannenbaum's job during that time period then is it any surprise the Dolphins are selling PSLs to a $350MM stadium upgrade announced earlier this year?

No surprise any team charges a PSL for an stadium upgrade.

It's a bucket of money available that every owner wants to and can tap.

But winning cures all ills, including PSL value.

I am curious if anyone knows which franchise has tanked the most in terms of PSL value.

I believe the value of the Steelers, Cowboys and Giants' PSLs have all improved.

I'd be curious if there is a team out there where the PSLs tanked worse than the Jets.

 

[Jet9]

 

Who's the big winner in the casino tonight?woody is the big winner that's who, Woodys the big winner , woody wins!!

 

 

 

Great movie.

[joebabyny]

My PSL is $2500, lower level end zone. I waited for the 50% sale on the 5k end zone PSLs. So glad I waited.

Originally the psls were $5,000 per seat. During the initial sales process they realized those prices were a little high, so they cut them in half to $2500. I remember getting the phone call letting me know that my psl was getting cut in half, and then they tried some upsells on me. After they sold a lot of that inventory and the new stadium opened, those psls were raised from $2500 to $4000. Not sure, but that psl level might be the only one that saw a price increase since the stadium opened.

I am in 123, kinda at the corner, 2 steps down from the section tunnel entrance, in the corner by the jets bench in the section the Jets come out of, and 2 seats in from the aisle. I am high enough to see what is going on. Overall I am happy with my 4 seats for the $2,500 psl and $125 game ticket. If that PSL number got me down from  the second from the top row of Giants stadium then so be it.

now, the 4 club seats we have on the 40 yard line behind the Jets bench in the chase club in section 215, yeah, that bill is a little painful when the Jets have a 4 win season.

[David Harris]

The whole thing is rotten.  All the loyal fans that wanted to cheer their team on, coupled with all the greed and money grabbing in sports that took advantage of that.  To screw over the very people that you depend on - it's very Fight Club.  How can you not resent the whole league and organization - sure I get it, some are happy, good things came out of the interpersonal experiences, blah.

A lot of us grew up going to games with our pops, I did.  I make a good living and I have a son and I can't even get in the parking lot without feeling like they're pissing on me and telling me it's raining...  $20-$30 to rent some asphalt to park in a swamp after I've already paid several hundred dollars in tix and taken a day to drive there and support the organization.  Cost of a beer, hot dog, etc...all price gouged to take advantage of the mooks.  That's how they think of us, suckers - 60,000 ATM's.

[SAR I]

 

I'd be curious if there is a team out there where the PSLs tanked worse than the Jets.

 

Sorry to spoil your PSL-bashing fun with some hard truth, but someone has to.

There are 82,500 seats in MetLife Stadium.  27,500 are upper deck seats.  That leaves 55,000 PSL seats.  The average PSL holder has 3 seats.  That's 18,333 Jets fans loyal enough to commit to 30 years of season tickets with licenses.

Season Ticket Rights is the most comprehensive and popular PSL resale site.

At present, there are a measly 537 fans with their seats listed.  That's 2.9% of all PSL owners.  In a typical year in Giants Stadium, the churn was similar.  People move out of town.  People retire.  People hit hard financial times.  People die.  OMG.  The PSL's surely "tanked" here in New York.  537 out of 55,000 PSL holders have their seats listed for sale.  Catastrophe.

SAR I

[SAR I]

The whole thing is rotten.  All the loyal fans that wanted to cheer their team on, coupled with all the greed and money grabbing in sports that took advantage of that.  To screw over the very people that you depend on - it's very Fight Club.  How can you not resent the whole league and organization - sure I get it, some are happy, good things came out of the interpersonal experiences, blah.

 

The whole thing is not rotten.  PSL's were terrific for many fans, and the advent of StubHub makes up for everyone else.

Everyone seems to forget fans like me and the thousands of other PSL owners who were waitlisted for 15 years in the old dump and had to go to brokers to get tickets at 2x face value in the NY Post classifieds or take a bus from Port Authority to scalp in the parking lots before games.  Sometimes we'd get out there, find no tickets, get back on the bus, and miss the game entirely.  And the people in the stadium with the good seats, they'd never give them up, never let other fans have a shot, they'd be feeding the scalpers by selling half the games and attending the rest for free.  This went on for years.  Decades.  It was endless.  It was unfair.

The PSL process allowed waitlisters to get into seats by forcing out those who weren't dedicated enough to the team.  And we're happy.  The shoe is on the other foot.  I don't care if we go 16-0 or 0-16.  I have the seats I wanted at a price I wanted to pay, I have a seats to every game, no one can tell me 'no' anymore, no one can tell me to get to the back of the bus anymore.

And as far as affordability goes, please, the Jets themselves lowered some seats to $50 and you can get decent seats online well below face for all games.  Because its 2015 not 1988 and there is the internet and there is StubHub and there is social networking and the days of the privileged few ripping off the desperate are over.  PSL owners, yeah, we eat losses in years when we suck or the weather is bad.  A-la-carte internet fans, they get to buy our seats at a discount.  It's win-win.  This whining is ridiculous already.  You have fantastic access to very affordable seats and it's due to the PSL owners who put them up for sale online.  You should thank us.  And thank the Jets for giving every fan the opportunity to attend a game.

SAR I

[RutgersJetFan]

Almost made it to two pages. A valiant effort, sir.

[SAR I]

 

It's amazing that the Jets made sh*t seats worth something because people don't want to pay the PSL. Woody is  smarter than I thought.

 

The hard truth is that attending live NFL games is a rich man's privilege, it's not for everyone, it's not 1945, it's not Ebbets Field, it's not $5 for bleacher tickets any more.  This isn't a surprise.  Rangers, Islanders, Devlis, Knicks, Nets, Giants, pick a sport, look at the ticket prices, Jets are a bargain comparatively.

Next, the people who ran to the upper deck aren't simply "people who don't want to pay the PSL", they're the people who squatted in great seats inherited from their grandfather's in Giants Stadium.  Quite a scam they ran.  Sold half the games to scalpers for 2x or 3x face value, attended the rest for free, many actually made money decade after decade.  It was disgusting.

Meanwhile, loyal younger fans were waitlisted.  I joined the waitlist in 1988.  I didn't get the opportunity to purchase seats from the Jets until 2002.  Year after year I scalped seats, usually from brokers, often from shady guys in the parking lot.  There was no internet.  There was no StubHub.

So please don't lecture me and others like me on the subject of "suffering" or getting "ripped off".  Woody Johnson brought order to the season ticket fanbase, put the right fans in the right seats.  The "bad guy" in all of this is the Giants Stadium season ticket holder who sold off his seats to scalpers year after year putting enemy fans in the building or ripping off the very fans he only pretended to be.  And it's those people who ran to the upper deck.  And it's good.  It's about time the shoe is on the other foot.  Let them complain.  It's their turn to suffer.

Very few PSL seats are available on the aftermarket.  And there is a reason.  The people who own them, love them.  And now that the team is on the rebound, we get rewarded for our loyalty.  

SAR I

[SAR I]

Almost made it to two pages. A valiant effort, sir.

Yeah, two pages of non-PSL owners fantasizing about the supposed plight of the PSL owner was more than enough.

Not everyone can afford 30 years of season tickets.  That's too bad.  But they don't have to worry so much about how the rest of us spend our fun money.

SAR I

[Charlie Brown]

So happy my brother and I decided to drop season tickets the year before the PSLs went in place.  Sounds like such a mess honestly and after being at the game 2 weeks ago made me realize again, I prefer watching the game at home anyway.  I loved the tailgate and seeing a bunch of people I haven't seen in a long time but I also like watching all of the football games and dealing with 3 hr rides home after the game and getting home just in time for the Sunday late games just isn't for me anymore.

The reason people aren't going to games and the tickets are cheap is pretty much because the NFL made Football too good on TV.  Its the ultimate TV sport now.

Hence the reason why some of us were pushing for the WSS!!!  The idea was we would have had our own stadium in one of the largest megacities in the western hemisphere and all the while still retaining tailgating....

Then your PSLs would have actually INCREASED in value because the stadium would have been used as part of a larger convention complex.

[SAR I]

Hence the reason why some of us were pushing for the WSS!!!  The idea was we would have had our own stadium in one of the largest megacities in the western hemisphere and all the while still retaining tailgating....

Then your PSLs would have actually INCREASED in value because the stadium would have been used as part of a larger convention complex.

Love ya CB, but good grief.

The PSL's in a solo stadium in Manhattan would have been 50% more expensive than in a shared stadium in New Jersey.  The capacity was also around 15,000 seats less than Giants Stadium meaning there would be 20,000 season ticket holders displaced.  Imagine the discussion forum uproar.  Imagine the ticket prices.  PSL's may have increased in value, but it would have been at the detriment of Jets fans priced out and squeezed out of the stadium.  What a mess.

MetLife is best for everyone.  There's no one who can't find a seat at a price they're willing to pay.  Want to smell the players as they sweat?  $700 gets you there.  Want a carpeted Club with a private entrance?  $400 gets you there.  Want a cheap seat for fun?  $50 gets you there.  Want a 30 year commitment?  PSL's get you there.  Want to go to just a few games a year?  StubHub gets you there.  No one can complain. 

SAR I