What do you think the Jets record could be if....

[Villain The Foe]

Geno is the starter and we move on with Hackenberg/Petty as our back ups. Or with Fitzpatrick resigned but we had to either cut guys like Giaccomini/Folk while restructuring other contracts/or just dropping Wilkerson's tag?

Lets keep in mind that the he Jets are built as a "win now" football team (#1 WR duo, Forte, Top 3-Top 5 D, revamped linebackers etc.) and can provide complimentary targets for both QB's. Guys like Smith/Peake/Anderson can contribute in a Jets offense with Geno at QB, the reliable hands of Forte/Powell can be a consistent 3rd target out of the backfield with Fitzpatrick at QB. 

Both QB's have their own pros/cons and Chan Gailey will have to approach the offense different given the different skillsets. 

 

Here's the schedule for reference. 

week 1  Bengals

week 2 @ Bills 

week 3 @ chiefs  

week 4 seahawks

week 5 @ Steelers 

week 6 @ cardinals 

week 7 Ravens

week 8 @ Browns

week 9 @ Dolphins

week 10 Rams

week 11 Bye

week 12 Patriots

week 13 Colts

week 14 @ 49ers

week 15 Dolphins

week 16 @ Patriots

week 17 Bills

 

 

[j4jets]

With Fitz coming on, we would have to release Mo. I still feel Gwno gets us 10-11 wins while Fitz gets us 9-10 simply because Fitz chokes towards the end of the season while Geno has played really well in December. Also, Fitz sucks more than Geno with nothing to improve while Geno hasn't even reached his peak yet. Geno any day of the week and twice on Sundays. Fitz is a good backup that'll keep Geno at bay. 

[Jet9]

If I were a betting man I'd say Fitz gets us 1/2 - 1  more wins. That said, Geno gets us 8-9 wins this year.

[Smashmouth]

This Geno sh*t just gets funnier and funnier by the day. If Geno takes this football team with his horrible pocket presence and his total lack of awareness we will be lucky to win 6-7 games.

Fitz will be the QB on opening day and he will improve upon last years numbers based on the fact he will now have a competent backfield and a competent TE and LT. That and the team getting faster on Defense and hopefully Special teams will make the difference. With Fitz we win 10 +

[CrazyCarl40]

2 hours ago, j4jets said:

With Fitz coming on, we would have to release Mo. I still feel Gwno gets us 10-11 wins while Fitz gets us 9-10 simply because Fitz chokes towards the end of the season while Geno has played really well in December. Also, Fitz sucks more than Geno with nothing to improve while Geno hasn't even reached his peak yet. Geno any day of the week and twice on Sundays. Fitz is a good backup that'll keep Geno at bay. 

Dear god please don't ever procreate. 

[Long Island Leprechaun]

That's one very tough schedule under any circumstances. None of the QB's we have under consideration, including Fitz, is going to add much value to the equation, unfortunately. No QB on our roster including Fitz is going to win games on his back. That's an edge we don't have.

[Colgateman]

2 hours ago, Smashmouth said:

This Geno sh*t just gets funnier and funnier by the day. If Geno takes this football team with his horrible pocket presence and his total lack of awareness we will be lucky to win 6-7 games.

Fitz will be the QB on opening day and he will improve upon last years numbers based on the fact he will now have a competent backfield and a competent TE and LT. That and the team getting faster on Defense and hopefully Special teams will make the difference. With Fitz we win 10 +

I love it how you ran out of the other thread a few days ago after I gave you the facts.

now you came back in shame avoiding that thread because you were wrongs so you decided to come to another thread to spew bullsh*t. 

[PatsFanTX]

With Fitz coming on, we would have to release Mo. I still feel Gwno gets us 10-11 wins while Fitz gets us 9-10 simply because Fitz chokes towards the end of the season while Geno has played really well in December. Also, Fitz sucks more than Geno with nothing to improve while Geno hasn't even reached his peak yet. Geno any day of the week and twice on Sundays. Fitz is a good backup that'll keep Geno at bay. 

10-11 wins????

Did you look at the schedule?

Jets are looking at 5-7 wins regardless who is under center.

[Ken Schroy]

2 hours ago, CrazyCarl40 said:

Dear god please don't ever procreate. 

LOL. His analysis was impressive eh?

[EM31]

3 minutes ago, PatsFanTX said:

10-11 wins????

Did you look at the schedule?

Jets are looking at 5-7 wins regardless who is under center.

Unfortunately this is probably accurate..And, unfortunately once again this probably informs the GM not to overpay for a "bridge QB" like Fitzpatrick on a team that is not going to win this year anyway.  All of which leads me to my final "unfortunately".   The final one is that having removed all of the other options from the board we are going to get ourselves another year of the worst QB in the NFL.  Yes, statistically and by almost every other measure including these eyes, Geno Smith is the worst that I have ever seen and that includes such luminaries as Bubby Brister,

Unfortunately.

The Jets should use the extra $7M wisely.

[EM31]

Oh and on a another totally unrelated topic which, like this one, also does not merit it's own thread......

Am I the only one who finds Richard Quest not only universally irritating but particularly during these plane crash news cycles when his air times gets increased massively?

 

[New York Mick]

Geno ******* sucks and is nothing more then a 3rd string  journeyman. With his useless ass as the starter 3-5 wins, one of the rookies 3-7 wins, Fitz 6-9 wins. 

If they can't sign a vet then just start one of the rookies and see what they can do. 

[Jetster]

They say the 1st game is just the 1st game on opening day but has there ever been a more important opening game for the Jets? 

Based on that schedule (I agree, you never know, but healthy those teams are TOUGH). We have got to win that 1st game & start strong. An opening win allows them to head to Buffalo feeling good & looking to atone for that horrible loss last year.

i honestly can say I've been a fan of the Jets forever & I've never seen a tougher opening 6 games! They have their work cut out to aim for 3-3. That's why I think winning the home opener is paramount. Dalton lost some binkies in Marvin Jones & Sanu. We have to pull this one out. Bengals @ home (W), @ Buffalo (L) @ Chiefs (L), Seattle (W), @Steelers (L), @Cardinals (W). My explanation is this: Dalton ate our lunch when Idzik stripped the D, Jets get revenge as Rogers takes away AJ Green & Eifert. Jets offense surprises, controls the clock, Bengals not a comeback team. Buffalo could go either way, it's tough to beat a division opponent 5 in a row but I'll give them another loss. Chiefs (very difficult place to win), Seattle (they punt a lot, Minny held them down, I see this as another close fought low scoring game, but Jets win at home by FG, @ Steelers (when have we ever won there? Never),@ Cardinals (I'm positive Jet fans are shaking their heads over this one but I think our front will neutralize the cement shoed Carson Palmer. He's not just getting long in the tooth but he's truly a statue! Jets win the TOP & where out the Cards defense up front.

Of course with that schedule we could also go 0-6. Mind blowing, those 1st 6 games. But if we can get through there at 3-3 the 2016 Jets will be battle ready facing 5 playoff teams in the 1st 6. Confidence would be sky high. Most games in the NFL are close now, Jets need to finish the 4th quarters strong.

[Villain The Foe]

5 hours ago, j4jets said:

With Fitz coming on, we would have to release Mo. I still feel Gwno gets us 10-11 wins while Fitz gets us 9-10 simply because Fitz chokes towards the end of the season while Geno has played really well in December. Also, Fitz sucks more than Geno with nothing to improve while Geno hasn't even reached his peak yet. Geno any day of the week and twice on Sundays. Fitz is a good backup that'll keep Geno at bay. 

 

4 hours ago, Jet9 said:

If I were a betting man I'd say Fitz gets us 1/2 - 1  more wins. That said, Geno gets us 8-9 wins this year.

 

3 hours ago, Smashmouth said:

This Geno sh*t just gets funnier and funnier by the day. If Geno takes this football team with his horrible pocket presence and his total lack of awareness we will be lucky to win 6-7 games.

Fitz will be the QB on opening day and he will improve upon last years numbers based on the fact he will now have a competent backfield and a competent TE and LT. That and the team getting faster on Defense and hopefully Special teams will make the difference. With Fitz we win 10 +

 

2 hours ago, CrazyCarl40 said:

Dear god please don't ever procreate. 

 

2 hours ago, Long Island Leprechaun said:

That's one very tough schedule under any circumstances. None of the QB's we have under consideration, including Fitz, is going to add much value to the equation, unfortunately. No QB on our roster including Fitz is going to win games on his back. That's an edge we don't have.

 

1 hour ago, Colgateman said:

I love it how you ran out of the other thread a few days ago after I gave you the facts.

now you came back in shame avoiding that thread because you were wrongs so you decided to come to another thread to spew bullsh*t. 

 

38 minutes ago, PatsFanTX said:

10-11 wins????

Did you look at the schedule?

Jets are looking at 5-7 wins regardless who is under center.

 

30 minutes ago, Ken Shroy said:

LOL. His analysis was impressive eh?

 

26 minutes ago, EM31 said:

Unfortunately this is probably accurate..And, unfortunately once again this probably informs the GM not to overpay for a "bridge QB" like Fitzpatrick on a team that is not going to win this year anyway.  All of which leads me to my final "unfortunately".   The final one is that having removed all of the other options from the board we are going to get ourselves another year of the worst QB in the NFL.  Yes, statistically and by almost every other measure including these eyes, Geno Smith is the worst that I have ever seen and that includes such luminaries as Bubby Brister,

Unfortunately.

The Jets should use the extra $7M wisely.

 

18 minutes ago, EM31 said:

Oh and on a another totally unrelated topic which, like this one, also does not merit it's own thread......

Am I the only one who finds Richard Quest not only universally irritating but particularly during these plane crash news cycles when his air times gets increased massively?

 

 

12 minutes ago, New York Mick said:

Geno ******* sucks and is nothing more then a 3rd string  journeyman. With his useless ass as the starter 3-5 wins, one of the rookies 3-7 wins, Fitz 6-9 wins. 

If they can't sign a vet then just start one of the rookies and see what they can do. 

 

6 minutes ago, Jetster said:

They say the 1st game is just the 1st game on opening day but has there ever been a more important opening game for the Jets? 

Based on that schedule (I agree, you never know, but healthy those teams are TOUGH). We have got to win that 1st game & start strong. An opening win allows them to head to Buffalo feeling good & looking to atone for that horrible loss last year.

i honestly can say I've been a fan of the Jets forever & I've never seen a tougher opening 6 games! They have their work cut out to aim for 3-3. That's why I think winning the home opener is paramount. Dalton lost some binkies in Marvin Jones & Sanu. We have to pull this one out. Bengals @ home (W), @ Buffalo (L) @ Chiefs (L), Seattle (W), @Steelers (L), @Cardinals (W). My explanation is this: Dalton ate our lunch when Idzik stripped the D, Jets get revenge as Rogers takes away AJ Green & Eifert. Jets offense surprises, controls the clock, Bengals not a comeback team. Buffalo could go either way, it's tough to beat a division opponent 5 in a row but I'll give them another loss. Chiefs (very difficult place to win), Seattle (they punt a lot, Minny held them down, I see this as another close fought low scoring game, but Jets win at home by FG, @ Steelers (when have we ever won there? Never),@ Cardinals (I'm positive Jet fans are shaking their heads over this one but I think our front will neutralize the cement shoed Carson Palmer. He's not just getting long in the tooth but he's truly a statue! Jets win the TOP & where out the Cards defense up front.

Of course with that schedule we could also go 0-6. Mind blowing, those 1st 6 games. But if we can get through there at 3-3 the 2016 Jets will be battle ready facing 5 playoff teams in the 1st 6. Confidence would be sky high. Most games in the NFL are close now, Jets need to finish the 4th quarters strong.

Thanks for the participation. The reason why I asked the question was to see what the wins differential is in the minds of Jets fans. The wins generally are all over the place. We've heard as little as 3-5 wins to as many as 10-11. 

 

What strikes me as telling however is, the general differential between the two QB's is basically 1 football win, in Fitzpatricks favor. Is resigning Fitzpatrick for what he wants 15 million, or even meeting him half way, 11 million, worth just 1 more win and the possible cutting of Wilkerson, Giaccomini, Folk, and the possible restructuring of guys like Ghilchrist, Skrine etc? 

 

Is Fitzpatrick that important to the team to where it would be considered a smart move to pay him anywhere between 10-15 million dollars when many of the records I seen dont even get the Jets to the playoffs, nor does it really look better than what people think Geno could do without him? 

 

I wanted to ask that question, but only after I got people to show their hand honestly so we have something to reference. I dont believe that Fitzpatrick is worth that amount of money if I believe he will only gain us 1 more game and its not even a game that will get us to the playoffs, but maybe from a 7-9 to an 8-8 season. Then what's the point? 

I would rather take my chances with Geno while keeping our RT and DE which is a better overall team option and see if Geno could do better than just that 1 game differential that Jets fans believe Fitz has....and not pay 11-15 million for a guy that I believe is only better by 1 football game win. 

[CrazyCarl40]

17 minutes ago, Villain The Foe said:

I would rather take my chances with Geno while keeping our RT and DE which is a better overall team option and see if Geno could do better than just that 1 game differential that Jets fans believe Fitz has....and not pay 11-15 million for a guy that I believe is only better by 1 football game win. 

Breno being cut is something that should happen for the good of the team no matter what. And, again, what happens with Wilk has nothing to do with what happens with Fitz. If anything, bringing Fitz back might be good for Wilk as far as his contract goes.

[LionelRichie]

I don't get why Geno is the de facto starter w/o Fitz.   Geno has been an epic disaster in pretty much every game he's ever played and he hasn't really shown signs of improvement.    All the Gailey / Bowles / Macc talk about Geno's improvement is just that, talk.   They are just trying to squeeze Fitz into taking the offer on the table.  

Personally, I'd like to see what Petty can do.   The kid absolutely lit it up in college, has a big arm, and decent mobility,   He is transitioning from the air raid to a pro offense and should be ready to go this season.   Having Petty and Hackenburg reminds me of the cowboys in the early 90's where they drafted Steve Walsh and Troy Aikman and let the best one win.   

[Villain The Foe]

13 minutes ago, CrazyCarl40 said:

Breno being cut is something that should happen for the good of the team no matter what. And, again, what happens with Wilk has nothing to do with what happens with Fitz. If anything, bringing Fitz back might be good for Wilk as far as his contract goes.

I dont mind cutting Breno, I mind cutting Breno and not having a replacement. Some of us are just gifting Brandon Shell this job. Now, I can admit, it probably wont take much to outperform Breno given what we seen from him last year. At the same time though, a replacement needs to be on the team. 

I wouldnt want to put Geno or Fitz behind a line with a glaring hole at RT. Granted, it already seems like that, but as Jets fans we most definitely know the difference between Breno Giaccomini and Wayne Hunter. lol. Give me Giaccomini every day of the week!

 

If cutting him is the thing to do, then his replacement cant be worse. 

[Lupz27]

I think the better question is how will the 2017 Jets be if we don't waste 10 million on Fitz this year, and possibly more next year?  Why waste that kind of money on a career backup when you can spend it wisely in 2017.

[JetBlue]

50 minutes ago, New York Mick said:

Geno ******* sucks and is nothing more then a 3rd string  journeyman. With his useless ass as the starter 3-5 wins, one of the rookies 3-7 wins, Fitz 6-9 wins. 

If they can't sign a vet then just start one of the rookies and see what they can do. 

Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah...ad infinitum.  How did this sucky qb ever win 8 games as  a rookie at that.  See how stupid you sound? 

[JustInFudge]

Of the available options at QB.  The Jets are a 6-8 win team.  Period. 

 

[JustInFudge]

4 hours ago, Smashmouth said:

This Geno sh*t just gets funnier and funnier by the day. If Geno takes this football team with his horrible pocket presence and his total lack of awareness we will be lucky to win 6-7 games.

 

He won 8 games as a rookie on the worst team ever assembled. 

[Jetsfan80]

4 minutes ago, JetBlue said:

Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah...ad infinitum.  How did this sucky qb ever win 8 games as  a rookie at that.  See how stupid you sound? 

A fair question, actually, given that we were outscored by 97 points that season. 

Other 8-8 teams that season and their point differentials:

Steelers (+ 9)

Cowboys (+ 9)

Dolphins (- 18)

Ravens (- 32)

Bears (- 33)

 

Also, the 7-9 Lions were + 19.

[Stark]

With Geno starting we win 3 games maybe 4

 

Fitz I'd say 7 

 

I hate the thought of Geno even being on the roster this season. Just go with a Hack & Petty and get the 3 wins that way.

[JustInFudge]

5 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

A fair question, actually, given that we were outscored by 97 points that season. 

Other 8-8 teams that season and their point differentials:

Steelers (+ 9)

Cowboys (+ 9)

Dolphins (- 18)

Ravens (- 32)

Bears (- 33)

 

Also, the 7-9 Lions were + 19.

So what you're saying is, him winning 8 games as a rookie doesnt count? 

[New York Mick]

9 minutes ago, JetBlue said:

Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah...ad infinitum.  How did this sucky qb ever win 8 games as  a rookie at that.  See how stupid you sound? 

As dumb as you apparently. The running game and D won 8 games. Geno sucks. 

[rex-n-effect]

0-16 with Geno; 16-0 with Fitz. Obviously.

[Stark]

2 minutes ago, JiF said:

So what you're saying is, him winning 8 games as a rookie doesnt count? 

I think Jetsfan80 is saying we have all seen Geno sh*t the bed too many times to have faith in his mental capabilities. I also don't think anyone on this team thinks of him as a leader and you want people to feel like the person playing the most important position on the field is a leader and is respected by his fellow teammates.

 

[Jetsfan80]

15 minutes ago, JiF said:

So what you're saying is, him winning 8 games as a rookie doesnt count? 

What I am saying is it was a statistical anomaly.  We were supposed to win 4-5 games that year.  Just like we went 4-12 with Geno at the helm the following year.  Based on point differential, we were the worst team in the AFC East in 2013, yet people want to pretend we were actually the 2nd best team, and Geno was a reason for that.  We weren't, and he wasn't.

If people are banking on Geno this year (which the Jets clearly would prefer not to, given that they've brought in 3 new QB's in 2 years, investing a 2nd, 4th, and 7th rounder to do so, and would make Fitz the starter again immediately if he comes back), he'll have to improve as a player dramatically.  Chan Gailey won't be able to take 2013-14 Geno and mold a winner out of him. 

[Villain The Foe]

26 minutes ago, Lupz27 said:

I think the better question is how will the 2017 Jets be if we don't waste 10 million on Fitz this year, and possibly more next year?  Why waste that kind of money on a career backup when you can spend it wisely in 2017.

Exactly. Signing Fitz will not just impact 2017, but 2018 as well if we start restructuring/pushing back players contracts. Stuff like that is what got Mike Tannenbaum in trouble. 

 

Geno Smith wasnt a good enough QB to get injured then come back with starting job waiting. Fitzpatrick isnt good enough to give 11-15 million dollars to by sacrificing talent (Wilkerson), cutting guys with no replacement (Breno) or restructuring half the team. 

 

And I personally dont see any player willing to cut their own salary in order to pay Fitzpatrick a salary he wasnt willing to come down on. 

[CrazyCarl40]

8 minutes ago, Villain The Foe said:

Exactly. Signing Fitz will not just impact 2017, but 2018 as well if we start restructuring/pushing back players contracts. Stuff like that is what got Mike Tannenbaum in trouble. 

Geno Smith wasnt a good enough QB to get injured then come back with starting job waiting. Fitzpatrick isnt good enough to give 11-15 million dollars to by sacrificing talent (Wilkerson), cutting guys with no replacement (Breno) or restructuring half the team. 

And I personally dont see any player willing to cut their own salary in order to pay Fitzpatrick a salary he wasnt willing to come down on. 

The Jets will have 25 million dollars in cap space in 2017 already and over 100 million in 2018. Pushing money to those years is not a big deal.

Again, you aren't sacrificing Mo to pay Fitz. That's not even remotely true, but you keep spouting it off as gospel. It's wrong, period. Breno sucks, it doesn't matter who else plays there because they couldn't possibly be worse. Addition by subtraction.

And your last point is wrong too. No one is cutting their salary or losing money in a restructure. That's patently false.

So, basically all of your points are moot. Please stop spreading false notions you wish were true to prove your non-existant point.

[JustInFudge]

16 minutes ago, Stark said:

I think Jetsfan80 is saying we have all seen Geno sh*t the bed too many times to have faith in his mental capabilities. I also don't think anyone on this team thinks of him as a leader and you want people to feel like the person playing the most important position on the field is a leader and is respected by his fellow teammates.

 

I watched Ryan Fitzpatrick sh*t the bed for 10 years.

11 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

What I am saying is it was a statistical anomaly.  We were supposed to win 4-5 games that year.  Just like we went 4-12 with Geno at the helm the following year.  Based on point differential, we were the worst team in the AFC East in 2013, yet people want to pretend we were actually the 2nd best team, and Geno was a reason for that.  We weren't, and he wasn't.

If people are banking on Geno this year (which the Jets clearly would prefer not to, given that they've brought in 3 new QB's in 2 years, investing a 2nd, 4th, and 7th rounder to do so, and would make Fitz the starter again immediately if he comes back), he'll have to improve as a player dramatically.  Chan Gailey won't be able to take 2013-14 Geno and mold a winner out of him. 

So you're saying, it didnt count because of statistics and stuff? 

Gotcha.

Well then, Ryan Fitzpatrick's 10 wins didnt count because it was vs. the easiest schedule in the history of mankind.  

[Jetsfan80]

2 minutes ago, JiF said:

I watched Ryan Fitzpatrick sh*t the bed for 10 years.

So you're saying, it didnt count because of statistics and stuff? 

Gotcha.

Well then, Ryan Fitzpatrick's 10 wins didnt count because it was vs. the easiest schedule in the history of mankind.  

So you have no ability to refute the point, and shift the argument towards a QB currently not on the roster.  Got it.

[Long Island Leprechaun]

I hate repeating myself, but as I said earlier -- tough schedule, average to mediocre QB's (unless Petty performs a miracle and becomes Aaron Rodgers) means a grinding season ahead. Doesn't mean we can't win, just that there's no slack whatsoever.

[JustInFudge]

2 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

So you have no ability to refute the point, and shift the argument towards a QB currently not on the roster.  Got it.

What argument?  That 8-8 didnt count because of statistics and stuff?  That argument?

Because I'm pretty sure its 100% fact that Geno was 8-8 as a rookie and they dont take wins away because of statistics and stuff. 

[Villain The Foe]

28 minutes ago, CrazyCarl40 said:

The Jets will have 25 million dollars in cap space in 2017 already and over 100 million in 2018. Pushing money to those years is not a big deal.

Again, you aren't sacrificing Mo to pay Fitz. That's not even remotely true, but you keep spouting it off as gospel. It's wrong, period. Breno sucks, it doesn't matter who else plays there because they couldn't possibly be worse. Addition by subtraction.

And your last point is wrong too. No one is cutting their salary or losing money in a restructure. That's patently false.

So, basically all of your points are moot. Please stop spreading false notions you wish were true to prove your non-existant point.

you're missing the point. Its not about having money next year. Its about maximizing the return on the money you spend which includes smart contracts. Cutting Wilkerson/Breno in order to sign Fitzpatrick is not maximizing you return. You're losing an all-pro DE, putting Fitz behind a line with a glaring hole at RT & an injury prone LT and you're guaranteeing future roster spots for guys that you have must restructure which may not be a good thing if their talents decline. All this for a guy who isnt even a future HOF'er that we're trying to squeeze the last bit of talent out of? Fitz had a good season.....though it took 11 years to do it. You dont this to a team for Ryan Fitzpatrick, you do it for Peyton Manning. 

This is the exact method that Tanny did. The latest example of that was with D'Brick. Luckily Clady is a good but very injury prone LT or we wouldnt have had a replacement. The problem is, what happens if you cut Breno and then Clady gets hurt? 25 million dollars next year wont help the fact that we put ourselves behind the 8 ball to sign a guy and run the risk of having no Tackles, and releasing Wilkerson for nothing. 

And if this happens and the Jets only win 5 or 6 games, the first thing that will be said is "Our LT got hurt and we had a hole at RT", not realizing that releasing Breno, forcing Shell to start and releasing WIlk just to sign a career backup who had 1 good season exacerbated the problem.