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Mac's first round picks

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1 minute ago, T0mShane said:

Remember when Mangini drafted a CB1, a LT, and a C who were all All-Pros.

Yes, I do remember when Tanny drafted those guys.  Hell of a draft.

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10 minutes ago, AFJF said:

I was referring to Stewart and Hansen being planted on the bench for Kerley along with Simon going to the PS after they went with a more natural NT in Pennel.

Just b/c guys walked in and were handed jobs doesn’t mean Stewart and Hansen can’t play.

What does it mean?  I understand these are young talented guys and it may take some time to reach full potential, but Jeremy Kerley signed and walked in front of them. If they were near ready, they would not have gone out and gotten replacements.  Simon is basically a FA, being beaten out by Mike Pennel and Steve McClendon does not constitute being buried on the depth chart. Simon was a 7th, so it isn't like a burned pick, but that isn't somebody that you get to point to as a hit either. 

I do agree some of these guys should get more run as the season wears on.  That absolves those two WRs, Leggett and McGuire and I guess Dylan Donahue.  OTOH, having David Bass leapfrog you in the rotation so quickly is exactly what I was talking about with the others.  I am interested in Clark and Jones, but either panning out seems very unlikely.  Does anybody know what it is up with Clark? He was on the non-football injury list all along, but he tore his ACL over a year ago.  Is there a timeline?

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Just now, #27TheDominator said:

What does it mean?  I understand these are young talented guys and it may take some time to reach full potential, but Jeremy Kerley signed and walked in front of them. If they were near ready, they would not have gone out and gotten replacements.  Simon is basically a FA, being beaten out by Mike Pennel and Steve McClendon does not constitute being buried on the depth chart. Simon was a 7th, so it isn't like a burned pick, but that isn't somebody that you get to point to as a hit either. 

I do agree some of these guys should get more run as the season wears on.  That absolvesthose two WRs, Leggett and McGuire and I guess Dylan Donahue.  OTOH, having David Bass leapfrog you in the rotation so quickly is exactly what I was talking about with the others.  I am interested in Clark and Jones, but either panning out seems very unlikely.  Does anybody know what it is up with Clark? He was on the non-football injury list all along, but he tore his ACL over a year ago.  Is there a timeline?

It means Bowles likes his vets, which we already know.

I think Bass got the nod because Martin is out, but may be playing himself into the starting role.

I'd love to know what the real deal is with Leggett.  They're being completely silent and not giving a time frame on return while they carry FIVE TEs.

Clark may not play this year and Jones is one of the more intriguing guys on the roster.  Freak athlete who showed gradual improvement during the pre-season.

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1 hour ago, j4jets said:

NOBODY had Hack graded higher than a 4th. We took him in the 2nd. Many boards had Watson n Mahomes as 1st round picks. 

And I agree with he reached for Hack.  Nobody on the this board or any board or expert would say otherwise.

So, you think he is going to reach, and it would have been a HUGE reach, to go with Watson or Mahomes at 6?  You don't get the luxury of seeing how Watson has progressed (and given it is ONLY four games so far).  You get to sit in the seat, picking 6th, and try and make that call.  You just (basically) wasted a 2nd round pick on Hackenberg.  You want to pin your career on either of those QB's with the 6th round pick, and knowing they have zero talent around them?

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13 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

What does it mean?  I understand these are young talented guys and it may take some time to reach full potential, but Jeremy Kerley signed and walked in front of them. If they were near ready, they would not have gone out and gotten replacements.  Simon is basically a FA, being beaten out by Mike Pennel and Steve McClendon does not constitute being buried on the depth chart. Simon was a 7th, so it isn't like a burned pick, but that isn't somebody that you get to point to as a hit either. 

I do agree some of these guys should get more run as the season wears on.  That absolves those two WRs, Leggett and McGuire and I guess Dylan Donahue.  OTOH, having David Bass leapfrog you in the rotation so quickly is exactly what I was talking about with the others.  I am interested in Clark and Jones, but either panning out seems very unlikely.  Does anybody know what it is up with Clark? He was on the non-football injury list all along, but he tore his ACL over a year ago.  Is there a timeline?

It means Bowles is coaching for his job and would rather go with a slightly above average JAG in Kerley than to bet on the rookies doing anything. 

Simon should be getting snaps.  He showed he could play in the little sample he has got.  Let's see what he is, rather than trotting out guys like McClendon and Pennel who are average at best at clogging the middle.

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4 minutes ago, AFJF said:

It means Bowles likes his vets, which we already know.

I think Bass got the nod because Martin is out, but may be playing himself into the starting role.

I'd love to know what the real deal is with Leggett.  They're being completely silent and not giving a time frame on return while they carry FIVE TEs.

Clark may not play this year and Jones is one of the more intriguing guys on the roster.  Freak athlete who showed gradual improvement during the pre-season.

Martin is another one.  These are not the kind of guys that hold draft picks down.  Leggett has supposedly had a knee and hasn't even practiced.  I don't anticipate him seeing the field for weeks.  

Clark not playing this year can't be good.  I would like to see Jones make an impact on specials.  If he doesn't make a push there, I don't think we will see him active. Peake being out may be an opportunity for him.  

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9 minutes ago, j4jets said:

It's been reported pretty widely. 

Meh...it was also widely reported that nobody was offering more than a 3rd or 4th for Sheldon.  

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1 hour ago, UnitedWhofans said:

Someone said it earlier, the biggest true  knock on Maccagnan in his tenure here is Hackenberg. All the other stuff that is mentioned on here us either nitpicking/looking for faults/ mistakes that every GM makes.

It's a big knock for sure, but that's basically it

And Lee

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2 minutes ago, CanadaSteve said:

It means Bowles is coaching for his job and would rather go with a slightly above average JAG in Kerley than to bet on the rookies doing anything. 

Simon should be getting snaps.  He showed he could play in the little sample he has got.  Let's see what he is, rather than trotting out guys like McClendon and Pennel who are average at best at clogging the middle.

Simon is not even on the team. He is on the practice squad.  He is not a rostered player, let alone active.  It may be convenient to blame Bowles for holding down these ascending talents, but remember: Bowles didn't sign Kerley.  Maccagnan did.  Even coaching for his life, Kerley did not know the playbook well enough to be active for the opener.  By week 2 he was playing 75% of the snaps.  Peake, Hansen and Stewart all had more snaps in the opener.  

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19 minutes ago, CanadaSteve said:

And I agree with he reached for Hack.  Nobody on the this board or any board or expert would say otherwise.

So, you think he is going to reach, and it would have been a HUGE reach, to go with Watson or Mahomes at 6?  You don't get the luxury of seeing how Watson has progressed (and given it is ONLY four games so far).  You get to sit in the seat, picking 6th, and try and make that call.  You just (basically) wasted a 2nd round pick on Hackenberg.  You want to pin your career on either of those QB's with the 6th round pick, and knowing they have zero talent around them?

When QB is your number one need, yes, you make the pick. Assuming you assess the player properly. Which Macc didn't. And that's what you get judged on  that, the WL record and the overall progression. Nothing is favoring Mac right now. 

 

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35 minutes ago, CanadaSteve said:

Should have got the chance to be GM.  I liked what he helped build.  He wasn't that bad a coach, either.

Well, just look at all the all-pros he's picked, playoff games he's head coached, and Super Bowls he's won since he left, right?

Pining for that potato, a sure sign our fanbase is nearing maximum depression.

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15 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Well, just look at all the all-pros he's picked, playoff games he's head coached, and Super Bowls he's won since he left, right?

Pining for that potato, a sure sign our fanbase is nearing maximum depression.

He and Tannenbaum drafted well War....No denying it. 

I would have liked to see him stay longer than he did.

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30 minutes ago, j4jets said:

When QB is your number one need, yes, you make the pick. Assuming you assess the player properly. Which Macc didn't. And that's what you get judged on  that, the WL record and the overall progression. Nothing is favoring Mac right now. 

 

And around we go in circles with Mac.

 

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Well I'll say this for Macc......HE SUCKS!!! Leo and Adams FELL. That is the only reason they are Jets. Can you imagine who he would have picked if those guys were taken? Sure he has made some decent late rounders but in those rounds its even more of a crap shoot. Macc's strength is CONTRACTS. That is the only area that he has proven to be good in. Hell you need a 5th or 6th rounder to take a shot on call Macc. Not exactly a ringing endorsement. Gotta be f*ckin kidding me.

 

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12 minutes ago, JetFaninMI said:

Well I'll say this for Macc......HE SUCKS!!! Leo and Adams FELL. That is the only reason they are Jets. Can you imagine who he would have picked if those guys were taken? Sure he has made some decent late rounders but in those rounds its even more of a crap shoot. Macc's strength is CONTRACTS. That is the only area that he has proven to be good in. Hell you need a 5th or 6th rounder to take a shot on call Macc. Not exactly a ringing endorsement. Gotta be f*ckin kidding me.

 

So he gets no credit for picking good players early, and no credit for picking good players late.

Seem legit.

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5 minutes ago, AFJF said:

So he gets no credit for picking good players early, and no credit for picking good players late.

Seem legit.

short memory, considering the jets have taken gholston/coples/gholston/milliner in recent years. 

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Just now, Augustiniak said:

short memory, considering the jets have taken gholston/coples/gholston/milliner in recent years. 

Making obvious decisions has not always been a Jets tendency. Be happy they have a guy who can actually do it

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15 minutes ago, UnitedWhofans said:

No not yet

Here's the interesting thing about Lee. Let's see how the players picked after Lee (next 10?) fair over the next few years. While early it looks like Lee was overdrafted (which means he earns more than he produces) a league wide problem mind you not just exclusive of the NY Jets, if we can find situations for Lee to succeed in going forward, maybe move him to OLB or pass rush specialist on certain downs who the hell knows? At least that way we're getting the MOST out of him that we can, STs too. Gholston, Milliner, Pryor are proven absolute BUSTS that did zero to improve a team overall. You can't say that about Lee yet, yes you can say overpaid, picked too high, but a player that can stay & contributes to an NFL team can't be called a BUST.

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42 minutes ago, Jetster said:

Here's the interesting thing about Lee. Let's see how the players picked after Lee (next 10?) fair over the next few years. While early it looks like Lee was overdrafted (which means he earns more than he produces) a league wide problem mind you not just exclusive of the NY Jets, if we can find situations for Lee to succeed in going forward, maybe move him to OLB or pass rush specialist on certain downs who the hell knows? At least that way we're getting the MOST out of him that we can, STs too. Gholston, Milliner, Pryor are proven absolute BUSTS that did zero to improve a team overall. You can't say that about Lee yet, yes you can say overpaid, picked too high, but a player that can stay & contributes to an NFL team can't be called a BUST.

Lee was not an awful pick.  I think the concept of him being an ILB in the Jets system was a reach.  In a way Adams is the player that Bowles wanted with the Jets' pick.

But that was a bad draft.  I super GM picks Artie Burns there, but the Jets were burdened with Cromartie and Revis.  

Its amazing how bad draft pools make bad GMs, but that being said, Hack was a bad pick in any draft pool.

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2 hours ago, UnitedWhofans said:

Legget has been hurt. I think you should also note injuries as a factor.

Smith succumbed to injuries. 

But mostly what you have there is correct. Hackenberg is the biggest knock on him

Based on what we see today, I think Mac has performed consistent with the NFL average.  He hits on some, misses on others, which is pretty much par for the course.  

But I don't think GM's should be excused for every pick they make that does not work out.  At the current moment, Hack was a very silly 2nd round draft pick.  Jarvis Harrison was not a good pick either, based on available information.  Someone who does not like football should not be drafted-they can prove it as a UDFA.  I think they learned that lesson.  

Devin Smith also was not a great pick, but you can argue he was worth a shot.

As a recent positive note, what they are doing with Adams and Maye is actually pretty brilliant.  Adams is basically playing like an old-style Rover, which only really he (or Polamalu or Dawkins) can do.  Maye has played a very credible centerfield.   I do think, overall, his FA signings have been very positive.

Macc needs to put together a QB and OL.  We have all been through the ups and downs, attempting to be competitive in 2016, etc.  The patient appears to be stable.

 

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I don't need to compare Mac to other GM when I know Shell is starting out of necessity. While him n Jordan jenkins may not be decent, they aren't exactly players that can save Macs job if it came down to it. Burris and Peake? Meh. As for developmental picks beyond "4th-7th", I think we can adjust that to '2nd-7th'.
And don't even get me started on his FA home runs. 
If only the GM job was assessed only on picks made in the top 10.  

I mean your claim was that these players are busts in comparison to where they were drafted. If you take a guy in round 7 and he is seeing the field after three years that is a success if a guy drafted in round 5 would be a starting right tackle on 2 or 3 teams in the NFL that is pretty good. Just because he didn't pick the guys you wanted doesn't mean he sucks or they suck.

Sent from my LGUS991 using JetNation.com mobile app

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2 hours ago, AFJF said:

So he gets no credit for picking good players early, and no credit for picking good players late.

Seem legit.

No. He gets no credit for making no-brainer picks that you or I could have made. As for his late rounders lets see how they perform for more than a NY minute before we call them "legit".

'

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2 minutes ago, JetFaninMI said:

No. He gets no credit for making no-brainer picks that you or I could have made. As for his late rounders lets see how they perform for more than a NY minute before we call them "legit".

'

Right, because nobody was bashing the Leo pick and saying they needed a WR, and he’s gotten nothing but praise for Adams over a Watson/Mahomes, etc...

 

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23 minutes ago, AFJF said:

Right, because nobody was bashing the Leo pick and saying they needed a WR, and he’s gotten nothing but praise for Adams over a Watson/Mahomes, etc...

 

Well the Leo pick for me was a no-brainer and Adams was the safe pick IMO and I wanted Watson. Look in any thread on the subject and I was all in for Watson. Mahomes not so much. The thing is Leo and Adams were picks you or I could have made. People are making Macc out to be this great GM because of his picks. The later round picks especially. My point is its been 4 GAMES into this season and people are vindicating Macc for the draft picks he made in the 2017 draft. Come on. There is still no defense for passing on a QB in the first round last year and no defense for not picking a RB in the second. NONE. Plus he traded his 3rd round pick to the Vikings when he could have had a pretty good OL there as well. Do not give me the bullsh*t that he had Mcguire in his sights all along either or that they were so enamored with Hack that they felt they didn't need to pick a QB. Macc is not a good GM on the talent evaluation side of the coin so far and a few decent games does not vindicate him and the mistakes he has made. They just don't. Talk to me at the end of the season and evaluate him then.

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