Bugg Posted September 19, 2012 Share Posted September 19, 2012 Don't agree with all of this. But the broader point; running the ball and stopping the run are becoming less important. The rules beg you to pass. Now that trend could change. Some team could in fact field a huge OL, 2 big ass TEs, a fullback and bruising halfback,blocking WRs, pass just enough to keep the defense off balance. Ground and pound perhaps? Alas that team is not the 2012 New York Jets. Simply being able to run (which the Jets don't do all that well) and stopping the run (which they do well) aren't nearly as important as passing effectively and stopping the opponent's passing attack. Rex Ryan is shaped by what he knows from his dad growing up, and it may not be all that useful in the NFL 2012.It may also have to do with the limitations of the Jets' personnel.. especially at QB But either way we may be in very bad shape agaisnt the better passing teams. Jason Whitlock- http://msn.foxsports...l-truths-091812 Watching the Ravens and the Eagles on Sunday, it dawned on me why no one — except the 49ers — wants to run the football and maintain a balanced offense anymore: Eli Manning. Despite his two Super Bowls and terrific play in the fourth quarter, Eli is not elite. Football coaches know this. They also know the Giants won the Super Bowl with the worst running game in football last season. The belief now among many coaches is the rules are so stacked in favor of the passing game that you can win it all with an average QB and a below-average running game as long as you’re willing to throw the ball 65 percent of the time. John Harbaugh believes Joe Flacco is every bit as good as Eli Manning. Andy Reid thinks Michael Pick is every bit as good as Eli Manning. Harbaugh and Reid might be right. They also believe LeSean McCoy and Ray Rice — arguably, two of the four best backs in football — can’t carry a team to the Super Bowl. Harbaugh gave away a game on Sunday because he refused to run Rice. Harbaugh is cool with that. The Giants proved you don’t have to be all that good in the regular season. Just make the tournament and roll the dice with your pass-happy mediocre QB. That is the Ravens' Super Bowl formula. They want to get lucky the same way the Giants got lucky in their two Super Bowl seasons. Coughlin’s Giants have never been the best team in football. They went 10-6 and 9-7 in their Super Bowl seasons. The turnover-plagued Eagles are the luckiest team in football at the moment. Maybe some Baltimore or Philly receiver will trap a wounded duck on his helmet and propel Reid or Harbaugh to a Super Bowl victory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faba Posted September 19, 2012 Share Posted September 19, 2012 No question the NFL has encouraged scoring and passing in its decisions. You still have to play good defense to win though- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HessStation Posted September 19, 2012 Share Posted September 19, 2012 Well good thing the LT is a better pass protector than run blocker, both TEs are catch first block never, we have a First Round pick QB, a Super Bowl mvp WR and the running back sucks. This team is ready!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Section 333 Posted September 19, 2012 Share Posted September 19, 2012 I wanted to read this, really I did. But I couldnt get past the part where you said Eli wasnt elite. What does Eli have to do, win 2 more SB's? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THE ILK Posted September 19, 2012 Share Posted September 19, 2012 Well good thing the LT is a better pass protector than run blocker, both TEs are catch first block never, we have a First Round pick QB, a Super Bowl mvp WR and the running back sucks. This team is ready!!!! For Tebow mania? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted September 19, 2012 Share Posted September 19, 2012 Our secondary can stop the pass fine. The problem is they have to defend the pass for too long, largely because of an inability of any our 4 LBers to get to the QB (or get to him and bring him down, or get to him quickly) with any regularity. $28M of our 2012 cap space (http://nyjetscap.com/salary.html) David Harris $12M Calvin Pace $9M Bart Scott $7M Deal with it for this year (and Harris for next year, if not the next 2). They're all terribly slow. Luckily that gets offset by having speed-demon Bryan Thomas (when healthy) to complement them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sirlancemehlot Posted September 19, 2012 Share Posted September 19, 2012 Eli Manning is Elite. Two superbowl victories in which his performance was the difference between winning and losing, fourth quarter comebacks, excellent stats, and a 500 yard passing game just last week--he may be the best QB in the league right now. So...Flacco is just as good? Yeah, no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HessStation Posted September 19, 2012 Share Posted September 19, 2012 For Tebow mania? No. To pass our way to the Super Bowl. Just. Get. Rid. Of Rex. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetsjetsjetss Posted September 19, 2012 Share Posted September 19, 2012 i completely disagree I think if you look at the past games played (reggie bush, CJ spiller, Foster/Tate) the game looks to be moving a little bit closer to running the ball instead of just throwing wherever youd like. It is still a pass happy league but ever so slightly we may see the return of the running games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustInFudge Posted September 19, 2012 Share Posted September 19, 2012 Don't agree with all of this. But the broader point; running the ball and stopping the run are becoming less important. The rules beg you to pass. Now that trend could change. Some team could in fact field a huge OL, 2 big ass TEs, a fullback and bruising halfback,blocking WRs, pass just enough to keep the defense off balance. Ground and pound perhaps? Alas that team is not the 2012 New York Jets. Simply being able to run (which the Jets don't do all that well) and stopping the run (which they do well) aren't nearly as important as passing effectively and stopping the opponent's passing attack. Rex Ryan is shaped by what he knows from his dad growing up, and it may not be all that useful in the NFL 2012.It may also have to do with the limitations of the Jets' personnel.. especially at QB But either way we may be in very bad shape agaisnt the better passing teams. Jason Whitlock- http://msn.foxsports...l-truths-091812 Watching the Ravens and the Eagles on Sunday, it dawned on me why no one — except the 49ers — wants to run the football and maintain a balanced offense anymore: Eli Manning. Despite his two Super Bowls and terrific play in the fourth quarter, Eli is not elite. Football coaches know this. They also know the Giants won the Super Bowl with the worst running game in football last season. The belief now among many coaches is the rules are so stacked in favor of the passing game that you can win it all with an average QB and a below-average running game as long as you’re willing to throw the ball 65 percent of the time. John Harbaugh believes Joe Flacco is every bit as good as Eli Manning. Andy Reid thinks Michael Pick is every bit as good as Eli Manning. Harbaugh and Reid might be right. They also believe LeSean McCoy and Ray Rice — arguably, two of the four best backs in football — can’t carry a team to the Super Bowl. Harbaugh gave away a game on Sunday because he refused to run Rice. Harbaugh is cool with that. The Giants proved you don’t have to be all that good in the regular season. Just make the tournament and roll the dice with your pass-happy mediocre QB. That is the Ravens' Super Bowl formula. They want to get lucky the same way the Giants got lucky in their two Super Bowl seasons. Coughlin’s Giants have never been the best team in football. They went 10-6 and 9-7 in their Super Bowl seasons. The turnover-plagued Eagles are the luckiest team in football at the moment. Maybe some Baltimore or Philly receiver will trap a wounded duck on his helmet and propel Reid or Harbaugh to a Super Bowl victory. John Harbaugh's strategy to win the Super Bowl is "hoping to get lucky". Nice. Thats the type of leader I want around my team. "Hey guys, are goal this year is to get lucky and win the SB. Go get'em!" Pretty big POS, this article. And why do you refuse to acknowledge that Rex Ryan has had the best pass defense in the league during his tenure with the NY Jets? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HessStation Posted September 19, 2012 Share Posted September 19, 2012 Our secondary can stop the pass fine. The problem is they have to defend the pass for too long, largely because of an inability of any our 4 LBers to get to the QB (or get to him and bring him down, or get to him quickly) with any regularity. $28M of our 2012 cap space (http://nyjetscap.com/salary.html) David Harris $12M Calvin Pace $9M Bart Scott $7M Deal with it for this year (and Harris for next year, if not the next 2). They're all terribly slow. Luckily that gets offset by having speed-demon Bryan Thomas (when healthy) to complement them. David Harris is so overpaid even as probably the 5th or 6th best ILB in the NFL. Not neglecting Pace and Scott but they're just obvious. Good thing is Jets will be saving a ton In cap by cutting these two next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustInFudge Posted September 19, 2012 Share Posted September 19, 2012 Our secondary can stop the pass fine. The problem is they have to defend the pass for too long, largely because of an inability of any our 4 LBers to get to the QB (or get to him and bring him down, or get to him quickly) with any regularity. $28M of our 2012 cap space (http://nyjetscap.com/salary.html) David Harris $12M Calvin Pace $9M Bart Scott $7M Deal with it for this year (and Harris for next year, if not the next 2). They're all terribly slow. Luckily that gets offset by having speed-demon Bryan Thomas (when healthy) to complement them. While I dont disagree, our core LB'ers are slow as sh*t. I think the Jets know this, hence asking them to lose weight to be faster and picking Davis in the 4th, putting the tender on Maybin, keeping guys like Mauga and McIntyre on the roster, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THE ILK Posted September 19, 2012 Share Posted September 19, 2012 No. To pass our way to the Super Bowl. Just. Get. Rid. Of Rex. Rex is the new Schotty. Does this get Tanny off the hook? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HessStation Posted September 19, 2012 Share Posted September 19, 2012 Rex is the new Schotty. Does this get Tanny off the hook? For three more years at least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RSJ Posted September 19, 2012 Share Posted September 19, 2012 Running the ball has become less important because of the increase in the amount of teams that run the 3-4. As some defenses shift back to a 4-3 base you will see running games become more effective again. It all goes in cycles. The way to beat a team like the Giants is to run at them. The Pats are not built like that and that is why they match up poorly against them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sirlancemehlot Posted September 19, 2012 Share Posted September 19, 2012 Oversimplification is now the norm. Teams pass more because of the new rules. So running is not important and stopping the run is not important? Teams pass more often than they punt too. I guess punting is not important. The last I checked teams that can run well are more successful in the passing game. Teams that haved a good downfield passing game run better. Teams that are ahead need to run to burn up the clock, teams that are facing high powered offenses need to run more to win the time of possession and limit the opponents' opportunities to score. Jones-Drew, A. Foster, L.Mccoy, Ray Rice, Frank Gore, Demarco Murray, Adrian Peterson, these guys are huge parts of their teams' offenses. There are lots of ways to win a football game. As far as Run Vs. Pass philosophy, neither is correct. You need both. If you rely more heavily on one side, then you'd better be very good at executing those plays, run or pass. Success comes from being good at what you do. If you have an elite QB, passing is what you do. If you have a top 5 running game, running is what you do. And when situations dictate it, you do both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetscode1 Posted September 19, 2012 Share Posted September 19, 2012 While I dont disagree, our core LB'ers are slow as sh*t. I think the Jets know this, hence asking them to lose weight to be faster and picking Davis in the 4th, putting the tender on Maybin, keeping guys like Mauga and McIntyre on the roster, etc. Davis was picked in the 3rd...after many projected him to get selected in the 5th...probably because we didn't have a 4th or 5th so we reached a little...which is not surprising...but for all the talk about his projected contributions...I have yet to see him on the field except during specials... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustInFudge Posted September 19, 2012 Share Posted September 19, 2012 Davis was picked in the 3rd...after many projected him to get selected in the 5th...probably because we didn't have a 4th or 5th so we reached a little...which is not surprising...but for all the talk about his projected contributions...I have yet to see him on the field except during specials... Thats right, 3rd...thought we didnt have one this year. Either way, they picked up speed. Someone who can go sideline to sideline. I'm not worried about the fact he hasnt contributed 2 games into his professional career. I Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleedin Green Posted September 19, 2012 Share Posted September 19, 2012 I wanted to read this, really I did. But I couldnt get past the part where you said Eli wasnt elite. What does Eli have to do, win 2 more SB's? Show up in the first half of a game, ya know... ever? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetscode1 Posted September 19, 2012 Share Posted September 19, 2012 Thats right, 3rd...thought we didnt have one this year. Either way, they picked up speed. Someone who can go sideline to sideline. I'm not worried about the fact he hasnt contributed 2 games into his professional career. I I'm a little worried that he hasn't earned one snap at LB in his first two games...its minor...but like many have commented...our LBs look slow...and the FNG we brought in and talked up during pre-season still hasn't contributed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bugg Posted September 19, 2012 Author Share Posted September 19, 2012 John Harbaugh's strategy to win the Super Bowl is "hoping to get lucky". Nice. Thats the type of leader I want around my team. "Hey guys, are goal this year is to get lucky and win the SB. Go get'em!" Pretty big POS, this article. And why do you refuse to acknowledge that Rex Ryan has had the best pass defense in the league during his tenure with the NY Jets? Has it really been that good a pass defense?As Spermie points out it takes forever for our-well paid various pass rushers to get there, and last Sunday even when they did they proceeded to let Rapelisberger stay erect. Now, this was a tough assignment against a good QB on the road. But we've seen this scenario play out rather often vs. better QBs in the Ryan Era. We have the best cover corner, but when the pass rush doesn't ge there sooner rather than later a superior QB is going to find an open receiver as the coverage breaks down with each passing second the QB stays in there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green DNA Posted September 19, 2012 Share Posted September 19, 2012 Passing league, yet the consensus "best team in the league" is a run first, strong D type of team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt39 Posted September 19, 2012 Share Posted September 19, 2012 Passing league, yet the consensus "best team in the league" is a run first, strong D type of team. As is the second best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustInFudge Posted September 19, 2012 Share Posted September 19, 2012 Has it really been that good a pass defense?As Spermie points out it takes forever for our-well paid various pass rushers to get there, and last Sunday even when they did they proceeded to let Rapelisberger stay erect. Now, this was a tough assignment against a good QB on the road. But we've seen this scenario play out rather often vs. better QBs in the Ryan Era. We have the best cover corner, but when the pass rush doesn't ge there sooner rather than later a superior QB is going to find an open receiver as the coverage breaks down with each passing second the QB stays in there. Yes. It has been outstanding under the Rex Ryan era. The pass rush is what it is. Rex's scheme is designed to make the QB make quick decisions and make bad throws. The Jets had plenty of free shots at Big Ben, they just couldnt bring him down. They are not only the team in the league that's struggled in that area when facing the Steelers. I'm not saying it wouldnt be nice to have a Suggs type player on the team, but the D really hasnt suffered because of it. Go look at what QB's do vs. the Jets defense. The overwhelming majority is unimpressive. The only QB who's really had success consistently vs. the Jets is Brady. Otherwise, the Jets give opposing QB's fits. Sure, some games a QB has a good one but rarely. Even in games we've lost, Ryan does a great job at making some of the best in the biz look mortal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BroadwayJoe12 Posted September 19, 2012 Share Posted September 19, 2012 Has it really been that good a pass defense?As Spermie points out it takes forever for our-well paid various pass rushers to get there, and last Sunday even when they did they proceeded to let Rapelisberger stay erect. Now, this was a tough assignment against a good QB on the road. But we've seen this scenario play out rather often vs. better QBs in the Ryan Era. We have the best cover corner, but when the pass rush doesn't ge there sooner rather than later a superior QB is going to find an open receiver as the coverage breaks down with each passing second the QB stays in there. The fact that we don't have a legit pass-rush, which forces our secondary to be in coverage longer, makes being the best defense against the pass that much more impressive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetsouth Posted September 19, 2012 Share Posted September 19, 2012 It has changed. The emphasis is on physical ability, and not decision making. That's why there are hundreds of physically capable linemen, and a scant few that can keep up with their assignments.. leading to failure. Just an opinion. As for Eli being elite, he doesn't *act* elite.. he is inconsistent.., so some have the *learned* opinion he isn't elite. The way I see it, he will be considered elite, in the years to come, no matter what.. so meh, he can have the title now. Hope he wears it better than some *elite* QBs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stoicsentry Posted September 19, 2012 Share Posted September 19, 2012 "This is a game where you win by getting a great quarterback and giving him some excellent wide receivers outside the numbers," said everyone, the year Bill Belichick drafted Rob Gronkowski and Aaron Hernandez. The game is what you make it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T0mShane Posted September 19, 2012 Share Posted September 19, 2012 Whitlock is a cartoon character. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbatesman Posted September 19, 2012 Share Posted September 19, 2012 The game's the same. Just got more fierce. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smashmouth Posted September 19, 2012 Share Posted September 19, 2012 Show up in the first half of a game, ya know... ever? Eli was horrific in the first half of that game and the second half he was heaving up prayers all over the freaking field Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetsfan80 Posted September 19, 2012 Share Posted September 19, 2012 Davis was picked in the 3rd...after many projected him to get selected in the 5th...probably because we didn't have a 4th or 5th so we reached a little...which is not surprising...but for all the talk about his projected contributions...I have yet to see him on the field except during specials... I'm more concerned that a bulked up Maybin hasn't contributed. We could really use his speed yet he's proving to be a one-trick pony. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackout Posted September 19, 2012 Share Posted September 19, 2012 I wanted to read this, really I did. But I couldnt get past the part where you said Eli wasnt elite. What does Eli have to do, win 2 more SB's? agreed. Whitlock is unreadable and unlistenable Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bugg Posted September 19, 2012 Author Share Posted September 19, 2012 Eli was horrific in the first half of that game and the second half he was heaving up prayers all over the freaking field He was very much helped by a braindead Bucs' defense blitzing and leaving Hixon and Cruz in sinlg coverage all 2nd half. Perhaps had Schiano been a bit smarter about that he wouldn't have had to deal with the victory formation. . Readily concede Whitlock can be a butthead, acing like he knows more about football than anybody because he played Div.1 at Ball State. But the larger point stands up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smashmouth Posted September 19, 2012 Share Posted September 19, 2012 I'm more concerned that a bulked up Maybin hasn't contributed. We could really use his speed yet he's proving to be a one-trick pony. hes a no trick pony i told you in preseason the guy is a waste of a roster spot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetscode1 Posted September 19, 2012 Share Posted September 19, 2012 "This is a game where you win by getting a great quarterback and giving him some excellent wide receivers outside the numbers," said everyone, the year Bill Belichick drafted Rob Gronkowski and Aaron Hernandez. The game is what you make it. Agreed. It's a passing league for sure but the multiple TE sets makes sense. Forces the base defense to respect the run and have ability to cover. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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