Rex Ryan reaffirms that he's a Heckuvafootballcoachdefensively and doesn't care what anyone says

[JustInFudge]

I think it's pretty important what Rex says, actually, and this interview is a mess, even for June. He sounds like he's eulogizing himself, while at the same time pointing to shadowy figures that were "driving" a different "message," while others were depleting the offensive roster behind his back. That he explicitly states that he can brag about his defensive stats points to what you said, and what I've been saying since it was confirmed that he was coming back, that he's going to circle the wagons around his defense, hope to preserve some statistical relevance that'll look nice on the résumé, and he'll throw that around next January when he's fired. Obviously, Rex didn't create this situation on his own, but he hasn't helped himself at all, and it doesn't appear as if Idzik is going to mortgage a single future dollar to help Rex, either. I don't blame Rex for planting some CYA seeds already, but it's still a sh*tty situation to be in as fans. This is a purgatorial season wherein we're not really moving forward. Rather, we're all just waiting to see if the coach can save himself while not screwing up the latest QB of the future.

 

Or maybe he looks at the offense and see's the only shot he has at winning, is by playing great defense.

[T0mShane]

Or here's a novel idea...maybe he's coaching to his strengths? His strength is defense, thats what got him in the running for HC'ing gigs. And guess what, he's damn good at it, like best in the biz good at it and he wants to be more involved and roll his sleeves up and start teaching more technique. That's great news for the Jets defense. With all the young talent on that side of the ball...its pretty exciting to see what he can do with these kids.

This all goes back to this stupid myth that JN is all hung up on that in order to be a great HC, you have to know and be great on both sides of the ball. Its the stupidest thing I've ever heard. No coach does this, no coach fits that criteria. I laugh at it.

Think Sean Payton is sitting in on brother Rob's meetings? Whats Mike Tomlin telling Dick LeBeau? Mike McCarthy and Gary Kubiak teaching Dom Capers and Wade Phillips the 3-4 these days? We could go on and on. Of all the stupidity thats argued on this board. This is the most frustrating of them all. There isnt a single coach in the NFL that is a guru on both sides of the ball. They all came from one side of the other, and thats what they stick to because they know it best. Period.

Sean Payton, Mike McCarthy, and Gary Kubiak are all responsible for their defenses, just like Mike Tomlin, Pete Carroll, and Bill Belichik are all responsible for their offenses. Only in Jets World does anyone think that the Head Coach bears zero responsibility for two thirds of the football team. You need to realize that every time you say or hear what a great defensive mind Rex is, it's a condemnation of his ability as a head coach. Do you ever hear anyone say what a great offensive coach Jim Harbaugh is? Does anyone ever say that Bill Belichick is a great defensive coach anymore? Does anyone feel the need to specify what side of the ball John Harbaugh specializes in? How about Mike Smith or Tom Coughlin? The answer is no. Because they're HEAD coaches. It's irrelevant to their resumes how awesome one side of the ball is if the other side is pathetic.

[T0mShane]

Or maybe he looks at the offense and see's the only shot he has at winning, is by playing great defense.

You'd think he'd have figured out by now that winning requires a lil bit more than defense.

[JustInFudge]

Sean Payton, Mike McCarthy, and Gary Kubiak are all responsible for their defenses, just like Mike Tomlin, Pete Carroll, and Bill Belichik are all responsible for their offenses. Only in Jets World does anyone think that the Head Coach bears zero responsibility for two thirds of the football team. You need to realize that every time you say or hear what a great defensive mind Rex is, it's a condemnation of his ability as a head coach. Do you ever hear anyone say what a great offensive coach Jim Harbaugh is? Does anyone ever say that Bill Belichick is a great defensive coach anymore? Does anyone feel the need to specify what side of the ball John Harbaugh specializes in? How about Mike Smith or Tom Coughlin? The answer is no. Because they're HEAD coaches. It's irrelevant to their resumes how awesome one side of the ball is if the other side is pathetic.

 

I never said Rex wasnt responsible for offense.

[JustInFudge]

You'd think he'd have figured out by now that winning requires a lil bit more than defense.

 

Pretty sure he has.

[slats]

Or here's a novel idea...maybe he's coaching to his strengths?  His strength is defense, thats what got him in the running for HC'ing gigs.  And guess what, he's damn good at it, like best in the biz good at it and he wants to be more involved and roll his sleeves up and start teaching more technique.  That's great news for the Jets defense.  With all the young talent on that side of the ball...its pretty exciting to see what he can do with these kids. 

 

This all goes back to this stupid myth that JN is all hung up on that in order to be a great HC, you have to know and be great on both sides of the ball.  Its the stupidest thing I've ever heard.  No coach does this, no coach fits that criteria.  I laugh at it.  

 

Think Sean Payton is sitting in on brother Rob's meetings?  Whats Mike Tomlin telling Dick LeBeau?  Mike McCarthy and Gary Kubiak teaching Dom Capers and Wade Phillips the 3-4 these days?  We could go on and on.  Of all the stupidity thats argued on this board.  This is the most frustrating of them all.  There isnt a single coach in the NFL that is a guru on both sides of the ball.  They all came from one side of the other, and thats what they stick to because they know it best.  Period. 

I essentially agree with all of this. I'd like to see Rex grow as a coach, though. Guys like Parcells and Belichick are defensive coaches who doubled as QB coaches when they were needed there.

But the idiot coaches like Herm, Mangini, Groh, etc., that the Rex haters would have you believe he's the equal of could never hunker down on one side of the ball and perform excellently. This is a major asset that gets brushed over all the time. In my mind, Rex brings value. He's still learning as a head coach. Last year was a major lesson, and this year is going to be another one. I think he'll come out of the experience as a better head coach. Whether that's with the Jets or elsewhere remains to be seen. If Idzik chooses to replace him, I hope it's with someone who's Rex's equal in their own area of expertise.

[T0mShane]

I essentially agree with all of this. I'd like to see Rex grow as a coach, though. Guys like Parcells and Belichick are defensive coaches who doubled as QB coaches when they were needed there.

But the idiot coaches like Herm, Mangini, Groh, etc., that the Rex haters would have you believe he's the equal of could never hunker down on one side of the ball and perform excellently. This is a major asset that gets brushed over all the time. In my mind, Rex brings value. He's still learning as a head coach. Last year was a major lesson, and this year is going to be another one. I think he'll come out of the experience as a better head coach. Whether that's with the Jets or elsewhere remains to be seen. If Idzik chooses to replace him, I hope it's with someone who's Rex's equal in their own area of expertise.

FWIW, I never said that Rex and Mangini were equivalent coaches, just that their legacies as Jets coaches will be the same, as well as Herm's--young coaches who experienced some success, but whom were all in over their heads as administrators and franchise leaders.

[Sperm Edwards]

I'm not sold on Rex, but the guy had Mark Sanchez as his QB for his entire tenure here.  I don't care if he played a major part in drafting or extending him; he's not the GM and - particularly as a "players' coach" - should not be trusted with these types of decisions.  He won't be with Idzik (or so it seems so far).  

 

If Sanchez was not extended, and a better QB was brought in to take that job away from him, I don't know what would have happened.  But to argue it would have been just as bad is ridiculous considering Sanchez is the league's worst veteran starting QB by a mile.

 

Rex's GM skills and GM "help" cannot be trusted and should be ignored by whoever his GM is.  He lets his personal feelings for players interfere with his sense of value to the team.  A team can't be constructed by looking at stats and ratings like a video game.  On the other hand one can't ignore such sub-standard play either and I feel Rex does this to a fault (especially when his GM asks him what he wants for his team & gives him a blank check to fill out for his own ,and potentially-incoming, FAs).  Rex wants to believe players are better players and better fits than they are.  It's his personality.  But that is how a parent encourages children, not how an adult GM handles business.  

 

For now I'm choosing to largely ignore that downside of Rex since the it was irresponsible to give him that responsibility in the first place.  If the Jets traded down & drafted Russell Wilson instead of trading up and drafting Stephen Hill, is Rex any better or worse of a gameday coach? It made Pete Carroll better in everyone's eyes; he went from being a retread boob to a savvy, respected intellectual with an eye for hidden talent.  In reality, Carroll's GM brought in Russell Wilson and the rookie beat out a total incompetent that same GM overpaid mightily for.  All credit went to Carroll.  Meanwhile if he knew so much about QB talent, and had such a hand in the team's acquisitions at the position, then explain away all the team's QB failures since he's been in Seattle, with the lone exception of Wilson.

 

Sucks for Rex, but he's not likely to get good QB play this year either.  Hey, life's not fair.  He should have screamed and yelled to Tannenbaum not to extend Sanchez, and a good way of preventing the extension would have been by benching him (yes, for Mark Brunell) towards the end of the prior season.  He didn't, and his then-undying optimism for Sanchez may have cost himself his only shot at a HC gig as well.  Time will tell.

[8675309]

Or maybe he looks at the offense and see's the only shot he has at winning, is by playing great defense.

Tony Sparano is a Heckuvafootballcoachoffensively

[Integrity28]

Sean Payton, Mike McCarthy, and Gary Kubiak are all responsible for their defenses, just like Mike Tomlin, Pete Carroll, and Bill Belichik are all responsible for their offenses. Only in Jets World does anyone think that the Head Coach bears zero responsibility for two thirds of the football team. You need to realize that every time you say or hear what a great defensive mind Rex is, it's a condemnation of his ability as a head coach. Do you ever hear anyone say what a great offensive coach Jim Harbaugh is? Does anyone ever say that Bill Belichick is a great defensive coach anymore? Does anyone feel the need to specify what side of the ball John Harbaugh specializes in? How about Mike Smith or Tom Coughlin? The answer is no. Because they're HEAD coaches. It's irrelevant to their resumes how awesome one side of the ball is if the other side is pathetic.

 

One third, special teams was all Westy's 

[Integrity28]

FWIW, I never said that Rex and Mangini were equivalent coaches, just that their legacies as Jets coaches will be the same, as well as Herm's--young coaches who experienced some success, but whom were all in over their heads as administrators and franchise leaders.

 

Not entirely true, see Mangini was fired after the team quit on him and Favre started to suck. Rex has had the team quit on him twice now, and Sanchez sucks more each year... and Rex was retained while the rest of the staff was gutted like a pig.

[slats]

Not entirely true, see Mangini was fired after the team quit on him and Favre started to suck. Rex has had the team quit on him twice now, and Sanchez sucks more each year... and Rex was retained while the rest of the staff was gutted like a pig.

The team quit on Mangini the year before Favre arrived. Favre just suspended that quitting for a couple months.

[Integrity28]

The team quit on Mangini the year before Favre arrived. Favre just suspended that quitting for a couple months.

 

Can't argue with that!

[Bugg]

Sean Payton, Mike McCarthy, and Gary Kubiak are all responsible for their defenses, just like Mike Tomlin, Pete Carroll, and Bill Belichik are all responsible for their offenses. Only in Jets World does anyone think that the Head Coach bears zero responsibility for two thirds of the football team. You need to realize that every time you say or hear what a great defensive mind Rex is, it's a condemnation of his ability as a head coach. Do you ever hear anyone say what a great offensive coach Jim Harbaugh is? Does anyone ever say that Bill Belichick is a great defensive coach anymore? Does anyone feel the need to specify what side of the ball John Harbaugh specializes in? How about Mike Smith or Tom Coughlin? The answer is no. Because they're HEAD coaches. It's irrelevant to their resumes how awesome one side of the ball is if the other side is pathetic.

Isn't either side of the ball really a negative photo of the other? How myopic is Wrecks that he cannot grasp the things his defense is tasked with stopping. At a minimum he should understand what works and what doesn't. More proof he's beigng kept around only because the team is gonna suck and he is at least more cost effective coaching  than paying him to do nothing and paying a real coach.

[SenorGato]

Link?

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/qb2012

 

37th ranked QB, 13th most wins. 

 

I know I know...13th sux and no Super Bowl sux and everything sucks etc...

[T0mShane]

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/qb2012

37th ranked QB, 13th most wins...

#MATH

[JoeKlecko]

I'm not sold on Rex, but the guy had Mark Sanchez as his QB for his entire tenure here.  I don't care if he played a major part in drafting or extending him; he's not the GM and - particularly as a "players' coach" - should not be trusted with these types of decisions.  He won't be with Idzik (or so it seems so far).  

 

If Sanchez was not extended, and a better QB was brought in to take that job away from him, I don't know what would have happened.  But to argue it would have been just as bad is ridiculous considering Sanchez is the league's worst veteran starting QB by a mile.

 

Rex's GM skills and GM "help" cannot be trusted and should be ignored by whoever his GM is.  He lets his personal feelings for players interfere with his sense of value to the team.  A team can't be constructed by looking at stats and ratings like a video game.  On the other hand one can't ignore such sub-standard play either and I feel Rex does this to a fault (especially when his GM asks him what he wants for his team & gives him a blank check to fill out for his own ,and potentially-incoming, FAs).  Rex wants to believe players are better players and better fits than they are.  It's his personality.  But that is how a parent encourages children, not how an adult GM handles business.  

 

For now I'm choosing to largely ignore that downside of Rex since the it was irresponsible to give him that responsibility in the first place.  If the Jets traded down & drafted Russell Wilson instead of trading up and drafting Stephen Hill, is Rex any better or worse of a gameday coach? It made Pete Carroll better in everyone's eyes; he went from being a retread boob to a savvy, respected intellectual with an eye for hidden talent.  In reality, Carroll's GM brought in Russell Wilson and the rookie beat out a total incompetent that same GM overpaid mightily for.  All credit went to Carroll.  Meanwhile if he knew so much about QB talent, and had such a hand in the team's acquisitions at the position, then explain away all the team's QB failures since he's been in Seattle, with the lone exception of Wilson.

 

Sucks for Rex, but he's not likely to get good QB play this year either.  Hey, life's not fair.  He should have screamed and yelled to Tannenbaum not to extend Sanchez, and a good way of preventing the extension would have been by benching him (yes, for Mark Brunell) towards the end of the prior season.  He didn't, and his then-undying optimism for Sanchez may have cost himself his only shot at a HC gig as well.  Time will tell.

 

While I agree that Rex should never have been entrusted with making personnel decisions, the bottom line is that he did.  He wanted Sanchez and he has been doggedly loyal to him, so since that is a big part of the team's successes and failures during Rex's tenure, you just can't separate that out from the rest of Rex.  It's a part of his decision making, judgment, and actions as a HC.

 

You're right, he does let his personal feelings interfere with his decisions regarding the roster, and not just his GM-type decisions or opinions, but in his decisions regarding who starts and who plays.  This attitude affects every level of his decision making as a HC, not as GM. The GM acquires the players, then it's on the HC to decide who starts and who doesn't, who is working hard in practice and playing well and who isn't.  Accountability issues, performance issues are all on Rex in his HC role, not his supposed GM role, and it's been to the definite detriment of the team.

 

You just can't cherry pick facts or aspects of his performance.  You have to look at it in total.  It doesn't matter that he was supposedly given responsibilities that he shouldn't have been. The facts seem to be that he was given those responsibilities, so that has to be included in any true and accurate assessment of his performance as the HC.  After all, he didn't have to stick his nose into player assessment.  As Clint Eastwood said in Magnum Force, "A man's got to know his limitations."  Rex knew or should have known what he knew and what he didn't and where his strengths were and where they weren't.  He had never been a HC and there was enough in that job itself that he had to learn how to handle, without trying to help Tanny do his too.  Woody has loved Rex.  Rex could have gone to Woody and said that "Tanny doesn't know what he's doing with the draft and personnel.  I have my hands full running the team and have no experience with personnel myself.  We need to get someone in here who can do a better job with personnel so I can focus on coaching."

 

With regard to Pete Carroll, it wasn't Wilson who changed the perspective on Carroll, at least not for me.  It was Carroll, his changed approach and attitudes, the way he has handled the team and had them performing.  There was a great article this past season where Carroll states that it took his getting fired by both the Jets and Pats to wake him up, to help him learn and grow as a HC.  He said he spent months soul searching and talking to coaches he respected.  He changed his coaching philosophy and approach to the players 180 degrees.  He stopped wanting to be a buddy or friend with the players and started being a leader and boss.  He wouldn't have had the success he had at USC if he hadn't changed his approach as a HC.  I believe that success has translated into the NFL because Carroll is a different HC than he was in his earlier stints, and he was doing that before Russell Wilson was drafted.  Their record may have been only 7-9 in both 2010 and 2011, but Carroll began changing the culture, changed the CS, started acquiring better players, and the team started playing better football.

 

In the 2010 draft, Carroll added their starting LT (Russell Okung), FS (Earl Thomas), their SS (Kam Chancellor), and WR (Golden Tate).  He also obtained Leon Washington from the Jets.  In his first game as HC, the Seahawks beat the Niners 31-6.  Granted, it was the Mike Singletary Niners, not the Jim Harbaugh Niners.  They made the playoffs as a wildcard and in that game beat the Saints 41-36 (whom they had lost to during the season 34-19).  In the second round they lost to the Bears 35-24, a team they had beaten by 3 points (23-20) earlier in the season.

 

 In 2011 with Tarvaris Jackson and Charlie Whitehurst as his QBs (can you say Sanchez bad?), the Seahawks beat the Giants, the Ravens (has Rex ever beaten them?), and lost to the Niners and Falcons by 2 points. Three starters (RT, SLB and LCB, and a backup LG) were drafted by Carroll in the 2011 draft.  Oh, and I almost forgot, that he traded for Marshawn Lynch who has been huge for them.

 

In the 2012 draft, they added their key pass rusher in Bruce Irvin, their starting MLB in Bobby Wagner, Russell Wilson, their backup RB in Robert Turbin, their backup LDT in Jaye Howard, depth at S in Winston Guy and depth at DE in Greg Scruggs.  In other words, Carroll has pretty much totally remade that roster during his time, and their improved play and status has as much to do with that as it does the addition of Wilson.  

 

In addition, I might add that most of the team's draft picks from 2010-2012 (22 of 28 or 78.57% as far as I can tell) were either still on the roster, PS or on Injured Reserve.  They also were able to trade many of the veteran players that didn't fit into their plans for draft picks (such as Rob Sims, Darryl Tapp, Josh Wilson, Deion Branch and Lawrence Jackson), and have been very active in draft trades swapping picks.  So they know who they wanted and traded down to get them for value rather than reaching, and in some cases traded up. That's pretty impressive.  Overall, Pete Carroll has been a better GM than Tanny could ever dream about.  Factor in the job he's done as HC, and I'd trade Rex for him in a NY minute.

[peebag]

While I agree that Rex should never have been entrusted with making personnel decisions, the bottom line is that he did.  He wanted Sanchez and he has been doggedly loyal to him, so since that is a big part of the team's successes and failures during Rex's tenure, you just can't separate that out from the rest of Rex.  It's a part of his decision making, judgment, and actions as a HC.

 

You're right, he does let his personal feelings interfere with his decisions regarding the roster, and not just his GM-type decisions or opinions, but in his decisions regarding who starts and who plays.  This attitude affects every level of his decision making as a HC, not as GM. The GM acquires the players, then it's on the HC to decide who starts and who doesn't, who is working hard in practice and playing well and who isn't.  Accountability issues, performance issues are all on Rex in his HC role, not his supposed GM role, and it's been to the definite detriment of the team.

 

You just can't cherry pick facts or aspects of his performance.  You have to look at it in total.  It doesn't matter that he was supposedly given responsibilities that he shouldn't have been. The facts seem to be that he was given those responsibilities, so that has to be included in any true and accurate assessment of his performance as the HC.  After all, he didn't have to stick his nose into player assessment.  As Clint Eastwood said in Magnum Force, "A man's got to know his limitations."  Rex knew or should have known what he knew and what he didn't and where his strengths were and where they weren't.  He had never been a HC and there was enough in that job itself that he had to learn how to handle, without trying to help Tanny do his too.  Woody has loved Rex.  Rex could have gone to Woody and said that "Tanny doesn't know what he's doing with the draft and personnel.  I have my hands full running the team and have no experience with personnel myself.  We need to get someone in here who can do a better job with personnel so I can focus on coaching."

 

With regard to Pete Carroll, it wasn't Wilson who changed the perspective on Carroll, at least not for me.  It was Carroll, his changed approach and attitudes, the way he has handled the team and had them performing.  There was a great article this past season where Carroll states that it took his getting fired by both the Jets and Pats to wake him up, to help him learn and grow as a HC.  He said he spent months soul searching and talking to coaches he respected.  He changed his coaching philosophy and approach to the players 180 degrees.  He stopped wanting to be a buddy or friend with the players and started being a leader and boss.  He wouldn't have had the success he had at USC if he hadn't changed his approach as a HC.  I believe that success has translated into the NFL because Carroll is a different HC than he was in his earlier stints, and he was doing that before Russell Wilson was drafted.  Their record may have been only 7-9 in both 2010 and 2011, but Carroll began changing the culture, changed the CS, started acquiring better players, and the team started playing better football.

 

In the 2010 draft, Carroll added their starting LT (Russell Okung), FS (Earl Thomas), their SS (Kam Chancellor), and WR (Golden Tate).  He also obtained Leon Washington from the Jets.  In his first game as HC, the Seahawks beat the Niners 31-6.  Granted, it was the Mike Singletary Niners, not the Jim Harbaugh Niners.  They made the playoffs as a wildcard and in that game beat the Saints 41-36 (whom they had lost to during the season 34-19).  In the second round they lost to the Bears 35-24, a team they had beaten by 3 points (23-20) earlier in the season.

 

 In 2011 with Tarvaris Jackson and Charlie Whitehurst as his QBs (can you say Sanchez bad?), the Seahawks beat the Giants, the Ravens (has Rex ever beaten them?), and lost to the Niners and Falcons by 2 points. Three starters (RT, SLB and LCB, and a backup LG) were drafted by Carroll in the 2011 draft.  Oh, and I almost forgot, that he traded for Marshawn Lynch who has been huge for them.

 

In the 2012 draft, they added their key pass rusher in Bruce Irvin, their starting MLB in Bobby Wagner, Russell Wilson, their backup RB in Robert Turbin, their backup LDT in Jaye Howard, depth at S in Winston Guy and depth at DE in Greg Scruggs.  In other words, Carroll has pretty much totally remade that roster during his time, and their improved play and status has as much to do with that as it does the addition of Wilson.  

 

In addition, I might add that most of the team's draft picks from 2010-2012 (22 of 28 or 78.57% as far as I can tell) were either still on the roster, PS or on Injured Reserve.  They also were able to trade many of the veteran players that didn't fit into their plans for draft picks (such as Rob Sims, Darryl Tapp, Josh Wilson, Deion Branch and Lawrence Jackson), and have been very active in draft trades swapping picks.  So they know who they wanted and traded down to get them for value rather than reaching, and in some cases traded up. That's pretty impressive.  Overall, Pete Carroll has been a better GM than Tanny could ever dream about.  Factor in the job he's done as HC, and I'd trade Rex for him in a NY minute.

 

I'll wait on my opinion of Pete until the Seahawks go further than the 2nd round in the playoffs...

[Sperm Edwards]

While I agree that Rex should never have been entrusted with making personnel decisions, the bottom line is that he did.  He wanted Sanchez and he has been doggedly loyal to him, so since that is a big part of the team's successes and failures during Rex's tenure, you just can't separate that out from the rest of Rex.  It's a part of his decision making, judgment, and actions as a HC.

 

You're right, he does let his personal feelings interfere with his decisions regarding the roster, and not just his GM-type decisions or opinions, but in his decisions regarding who starts and who plays.  This attitude affects every level of his decision making as a HC, not as GM. The GM acquires the players, then it's on the HC to decide who starts and who doesn't, who is working hard in practice and playing well and who isn't.  Accountability issues, performance issues are all on Rex in his HC role, not his supposed GM role, and it's been to the definite detriment of the team.

 

You just can't cherry pick facts or aspects of his performance.  You have to look at it in total.  It doesn't matter that he was supposedly given responsibilities that he shouldn't have been. The facts seem to be that he was given those responsibilities, so that has to be included in any true and accurate assessment of his performance as the HC.  After all, he didn't have to stick his nose into player assessment.  As Clint Eastwood said in Magnum Force, "A man's got to know his limitations."  Rex knew or should have known what he knew and what he didn't and where his strengths were and where they weren't.  He had never been a HC and there was enough in that job itself that he had to learn how to handle, without trying to help Tanny do his too.  Woody has loved Rex.  Rex could have gone to Woody and said that "Tanny doesn't know what he's doing with the draft and personnel.  I have my hands full running the team and have no experience with personnel myself.  We need to get someone in here who can do a better job with personnel so I can focus on coaching."

 

With regard to Pete Carroll, it wasn't Wilson who changed the perspective on Carroll, at least not for me.  It was Carroll, his changed approach and attitudes, the way he has handled the team and had them performing.  There was a great article this past season where Carroll states that it took his getting fired by both the Jets and Pats to wake him up, to help him learn and grow as a HC.  He said he spent months soul searching and talking to coaches he respected.  He changed his coaching philosophy and approach to the players 180 degrees.  He stopped wanting to be a buddy or friend with the players and started being a leader and boss.  He wouldn't have had the success he had at USC if he hadn't changed his approach as a HC.  I believe that success has translated into the NFL because Carroll is a different HC than he was in his earlier stints, and he was doing that before Russell Wilson was drafted.  Their record may have been only 7-9 in both 2010 and 2011, but Carroll began changing the culture, changed the CS, started acquiring better players, and the team started playing better football.

 

In the 2010 draft, Carroll added their starting LT (Russell Okung), FS (Earl Thomas), their SS (Kam Chancellor), and WR (Golden Tate).  He also obtained Leon Washington from the Jets.  In his first game as HC, the Seahawks beat the Niners 31-6.  Granted, it was the Mike Singletary Niners, not the Jim Harbaugh Niners.  They made the playoffs as a wildcard and in that game beat the Saints 41-36 (whom they had lost to during the season 34-19).  In the second round they lost to the Bears 35-24, a team they had beaten by 3 points (23-20) earlier in the season.

 

 In 2011 with Tarvaris Jackson and Charlie Whitehurst as his QBs (can you say Sanchez bad?), the Seahawks beat the Giants, the Ravens (has Rex ever beaten them?), and lost to the Niners and Falcons by 2 points. Three starters (RT, SLB and LCB, and a backup LG) were drafted by Carroll in the 2011 draft.  Oh, and I almost forgot, that he traded for Marshawn Lynch who has been huge for them.

 

In the 2012 draft, they added their key pass rusher in Bruce Irvin, their starting MLB in Bobby Wagner, Russell Wilson, their backup RB in Robert Turbin, their backup LDT in Jaye Howard, depth at S in Winston Guy and depth at DE in Greg Scruggs.  In other words, Carroll has pretty much totally remade that roster during his time, and their improved play and status has as much to do with that as it does the addition of Wilson.  

 

In addition, I might add that most of the team's draft picks from 2010-2012 (22 of 28 or 78.57% as far as I can tell) were either still on the roster, PS or on Injured Reserve.  They also were able to trade many of the veteran players that didn't fit into their plans for draft picks (such as Rob Sims, Darryl Tapp, Josh Wilson, Deion Branch and Lawrence Jackson), and have been very active in draft trades swapping picks.  So they know who they wanted and traded down to get them for value rather than reaching, and in some cases traded up. That's pretty impressive.  Overall, Pete Carroll has been a better GM than Tanny could ever dream about.  Factor in the job he's done as HC, and I'd trade Rex for him in a NY minute.

 

 

I absolutely can separate these aspects to Rex out.  He's not a GM and he was permitted to take on GM-like duties.  To me it is like judging him as an offensive coordinator.  He isn't one and if he flopped as an OC my reaction would be, "Yeah, so what? I mean, what did you think was going to happen by making Ryan an OC? How did you ever think this was going to end well?" So I most certainly DO separate out that aspect because he never should have been doing it in the first place.

 

Pete Carroll may have changed his tune, but it resulted in a 7-9 season without a real QB.  Also without a real QB Rex had this team at 11-5 and in the AFCCG.  Mangini "changed the culture" here also and the team despised him.  I think Carroll still sucks - especially on offense, just like Rex - but he has some players who make him look better than he is (particularly at QB & RB).  

 

I get it that you can't stand Rex.  I can't stand Sanchez and there just isn't any talking to me on the subject.  He f*cking sucks.  He's a f*cking bum.  So I see a lot of that (but with Rex) with you.  We can smell our own.

 

But the reality is you're taking shortcomings of others (like Carroll in this instance) and rationalizing them as being acceptable, when Rex had the same disadvantages and his team(s) accomplished more.  All the lousy personell moves recently made by Seattle are overlooked and Carroll is given credit (by you) for ones that did work out.  It's manifested itself to the point you actually referred to Carroll as the GM, which he absolutely is not.  Though it was pretty publicly his idea to bring in Terrell Owens.

 

Swap 2012 Mark Sanchez for 2012 Russell Wilson and the Seahawks win 7 games for the 3rd time in a row.  Then take away Richard Sherman in week 3 & replace him with Kyle Wilson and you can probably subtract another win.  Then subtract both of his starting WRs (such as they were for the Jets in the first place) and you can pick how many more wins that would cost them.  You see where I'm going with this?  And how many "gift" wins did he get in 2012 (BS Hail Mary pass courtesy of replacement refs, RGIII busting up his knee, etc.)? 

 

Carroll is ridiculously overrated and basically stepped in sh*t with Wilson.  He's got the decided advantage of being a HC who has his QB and Sherman (probably his best overall player) both on dirt-cheap rookie contracts.  Let's see what their roster looks like once those same players are re-signed to 8-figure per year contracts.  Same players but now you've got $25M/year less on the salary cap to use elsewhere.

Rex has a ton of faults, and the first line of my post started with "I'm not sold on Rex," but he has more to offer a team than you're giving him credit for.  Rex's clownisms and all, I would not consider Pete Carroll an upgrade today.  And if he is, it's not substantial.

[bitonti]

Sean Payton, Mike McCarthy, and Gary Kubiak are all responsible for their defenses, just like Mike Tomlin, Pete Carroll, and Bill Belichik are all responsible for their offenses. Only in Jets World does anyone think that the Head Coach bears zero responsibility for two thirds of the football team. You need to realize that every time you say or hear what a great defensive mind Rex is, it's a condemnation of his ability as a head coach. Do you ever hear anyone say what a great offensive coach Jim Harbaugh is? Does anyone ever say that Bill Belichick is a great defensive coach anymore? Does anyone feel the need to specify what side of the ball John Harbaugh specializes in? How about Mike Smith or Tom Coughlin? The answer is no. Because they're HEAD coaches. It's irrelevant to their resumes how awesome one side of the ball is if the other side is pathetic.

 

The head coach doesn't do as much as we think he does. Mike Tomlin is a glorified cheerleader. Bill Belichek is a mind f--ker. Without the horses these guys would be screwed. 

 

Quick question ask your self honestly what is the Jets record last year with Mike Tomlin or Bill Belichek as the head coach. if you believe the 2012 Jets are significantly better, you are forgetting to factor in the players. 

[JustInFudge]

So Pete Carroll who just had his first winning season as an NFL HC playing in a sh*t division (sans 49ers for 2 years) is awesome and Rex Ryan sucks?

 

lmfao - JN.  This place.  Holy sh*t.

[faba]

The job of the manager is to have competent assistants to delegate authority while still oveerseeing the entire team. Rex did that?

[Sperm Edwards]

The job of the manager is to have competent assistants to delegate authority while still oveerseeing the entire team. Rex did that?

 

At DC and ST, yes.  At OC, no.

[Scott Dierking]

At DC and ST, yes.  At OC, no.

Name a unit- Defense, Offense, Special teams, that has progressed over time under Rex Ryan as coach.

[SenorGato]

Name a unit- Defense, Offense, Special teams, that has progressed over time under Rex Ryan as coach.

Is that how the NFL, pro sports in general, works? You get a prime aged unit and it's supposed to make step by step, linear, gradual improvements? 

 

I get that if you like Rex you are delusional and ignoring that he did not turn Mark Sanchez into a franchise carrier, but holy sh*t the thought process on the other side is so childish/lazy/basic/etc. 

[Sperm Edwards]

Name a unit- Defense, Offense, Special teams, that has progressed over time under Rex Ryan as coach.

The defense clearly improved.

 

This newly re-moved goal post of requirements for Rex (and only Rex) is just ridiculous.  Meanwhile, probably 20-25 coaches would get fired using this new any/all-unit progressive-improvement requirement of yours, including both of the prior year's SB coaches.

[BaumerJet]

A few thoughts on Rex:

 

• He is a hell of a coach
• We are lucky to have him
• Now that they are actually headed in the right direction talent wise, the results are going to be better
• Playoffs this year.....

Tell us the truth, You got on line a week ago for the "EARWIG" at Minicamp, Just like last year...

 

 

Didn't you?

[dbatesman]

WHY WOULD YOU POST THIS

[JoeKlecko]

I'll wait on my opinion of Pete until the Seahawks go further than the 2nd round in the playoffs...

 

Fair enough.  I'm not saying he's the greatest coach ever or anything like that, just that he's not a clown or doofus, is a better overall HC than Rex, and has done a very respectable and good job so far as the HC of the Seahawks.

[JustInFudge]

Fair enough.  I'm not saying he's the greatest coach ever or anything like that, just that he's not a clown or doofus, is a better overall HC than Rex, and has done a very respectable and good job so far as the HC of the Seahawks.

 

Pete Carroll isnt a clown or a doofus?  Have you seen some the cheerleader moronic sh*t he does?

 

1 winning season because they found a QB who exceeded everyone expectations and this dude is doing a great job so far?  Meanwhile, Rex has had only 1 losing season, with Mark Sanchez and the guy should be fired...and this is Rex's first go round as a HC.  Carroll has been a HC since 97.  lmfao

 

You cant make this sh*t up.  For real.  Do yourself a favor, go look at how Pete Carroll does outside of Seattle (hands down the toughest place to play for an opposing team).  It aint pretty for such an amazing HC.  

[Sperm Edwards]

Tell us the truth, You got on line a week ago for the "EARWIG" at Minicamp, Just like last year...

 

 

Didn't you?

 

 

See the link in my sig.  It's spelled Mornhinweg.

[JoeKlecko]

I absolutely can separate these aspects to Rex out.  He's not a GM and he was permitted to take on GM-like duties.  To me it is like judging him as an offensive coordinator.  He isn't one and if he flopped as an OC my reaction would be, "Yeah, so what? I mean, what did you think was going to happen by making Ryan an OC? How did you ever think this was going to end well?" So I most certainly DO separate out that aspect because he never should have been doing it in the first place.

 

Pete Carroll may have changed his tune, but it resulted in a 7-9 season without a real QB.  Also without a real QB Rex had this team at 11-5 and in the AFCCG.  Mangini "changed the culture" here also and the team despised him.  I think Carroll still sucks - especially on offense, just like Rex - but he has some players who make him look better than he is (particularly at QB & RB).  

 

I get it that you can't stand Rex.  I can't stand Sanchez and there just isn't any talking to me on the subject.  He f*cking sucks.  He's a f*cking bum.  So I see a lot of that (but with Rex) with you.  We can smell our own.

 

But the reality is you're taking shortcomings of others (like Carroll in this instance) and rationalizing them as being acceptable, when Rex had the same disadvantages and his team(s) accomplished more.  All the lousy personell moves recently made by Seattle are overlooked and Carroll is given credit (by you) for ones that did work out.  It's manifested itself to the point you actually referred to Carroll as the GM, which he absolutely is not.  Though it was pretty publicly his idea to bring in Terrell Owens.

 

Swap 2012 Mark Sanchez for 2012 Russell Wilson and the Seahawks win 7 games for the 3rd time in a row.  Then take away Richard Sherman in week 3 & replace him with Kyle Wilson and you can probably subtract another win.  Then subtract both of his starting WRs (such as they were for the Jets in the first place) and you can pick how many more wins that would cost them.  You see where I'm going with this?  And how many "gift" wins did he get in 2012 (BS Hail Mary pass courtesy of replacement refs, RGIII busting up his knee, etc.)? 

 

Carroll is ridiculously overrated and basically stepped in sh*t with Wilson.  He's got the decided advantage of being a HC who has his QB and Sherman (probably his best overall player) both on dirt-cheap rookie contracts.  Let's see what their roster looks like once those same players are re-signed to 8-figure per year contracts.  Same players but now you've got $25M/year less on the salary cap to use elsewhere.

Rex has a ton of faults, and the first line of my post started with "I'm not sold on Rex," but he has more to offer a team than you're giving him credit for.  Rex's clownisms and all, I would not consider Pete Carroll an upgrade today.  And if he is, it's not substantial.

 

Even if you do separate out the GM aspects of the job, you shouldn't lump in things that are HC responsibilities as part of the GM responsibilities and then disregarding them, which if I understand you correctly, you seem to be doing.

 

You can't really compare the first year records of Carroll and Ryan. The Jets had a much better team when Rex took over than the Seahawks did.  From 2003 - 2010, the Seahawk's record went like this: 10-6, 9-7, 13-3, 9-7, 10-6, 4-12, 5-11 and 7-9 (Carroll's first year n 2010).  The two years before Carroll took over, the team bottomed out.  I'm not a Seahawks fan, but it appears that they got old and that the GM had done a poor job with talent acquisition.  Conversely, the Jets record during the same time period: 6-10, 10-6, 4-12, 10-6, 4-12, 9-7, 9-7, 11-5 (Rex's second year).  Looking at the records it's pretty clear that while the Seahawks were a team on the decline, the Jets were a team on the rise.  As we know, the Jets had a great OL, veteran leadership on both sides of the ball, players with high character, and some good talent.  The Seahawks had to totally rebuild their OL, offensive skill players and defense.  Rex did NOT have the same disadvantages of Carroll.  The only advantage that Carroll had over Rex is that he had failed pretty badly as a HC 2x before in the NFL and had time to reflect upon that and make changes, whereas Rex did not.

 

Carroll changed the culture and its to his credit that his players didn't wind up despising him.  Mangini was a control freak and micro-manager, and seemingly not very passionate.  Both Rex and Carroll are more passionate, enthusiastic types.  Carroll has a definite edge here, however, as he doesn't make himself sound incredibly stupid with his press conferences and predictions.

 

I'm not saying that Carroll is a great offensive coach.  I think that both Rex and he are probably about equal there with perhaps Carroll being a little better.

 

Actually, I can't stand Sanchez or Rex.  Well, I have some degree of sympathy for Sanchez, but not for Rex.  The difference?  Sanchez was put in a position to fail, not succeed, by Rex.  He wasn't allowed to develop more slowly, and Rex moronically predicted a SB victory Sanchez' rookie season, thus putting a TON more pressure on him.  Rex compounded the problems with Sanchez by keeping an inept QB Coach and OC around.

 

All what lousy personnel moves by Seattle recently?  I didn't see but a couple of minor moves that didn't pan out.  With regard to Carroll "not" being the GM, I'm afraid that you are wrong.  Consider the following from Wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pete_Carroll  :

 

On the morning of January 9, 2010, Carroll reportedly came to agreement with the Seahawks on a 5-year contract that would appoint him as head coach.^[69] He was officially hired as the Seahawks head coach on January 11.^[44] He was also named executive vice president of football operations, effectively making him the Seahawks' general manager as well. While the Seahawks have a general manager in John Schneider, he serves mainly in an advisory role to Carroll, who has the final say in football matters.

 

I don't understand your point about swapping players.  That makes no sense.  You could say the same about any teams in the NFL and their records would change.  Your points regarding the cap don't make any sense, either.  What the heck does that have to do with the job that Carroll has done putting together that football team?  If Smith pans out anywhere near as good as Wilson, then you could say the same thing about the Jets with Smith and Cro.

 

How is Carroll overrated and by whom?  I haven't heard anyone claiming that he's "great".  I have just been making the point that he isn't the hapless boob that you portray him to be, and has done a better job as HC than Rex.  Rex is undoubtedly a better DC, although Carroll was/is no slouch in that regard.  Rex's abilities as a DC is about his only redeeming quality that I see, and the only reason he hasn't been fired yet. I don't know of any other HC in NFL history that has lost his team two years in a row and admitted it and kept his job.

 

We'll just have to agree to disagree vis-a-vis Carroll and Rex.  I strongly believe that time will prove me right.  Carroll will have the Seahawks a perennial contender and Rex will wind up getting fired sooner than later and may never get another shot at being a HC.

[JoeKlecko]

At DC and ST, yes.  At OC, no.

 

At QB Coach no.  At OL coach no (they regressed).

[Jacked4JetsFB]

Pete Carroll isnt a clown or a doofus?  Have you seen some the cheerleader moronic sh*t he does?

 

1 winning season because they found a QB who exceeded everyone expectations and this dude is doing a great job so far?  Meanwhile, Rex has had only 1 losing season, with Mark Sanchez and the guy should be fired...and this is Rex's first go round as a HC.  Carroll has been a HC since 97.  lmfao

 

You cant make this sh*t up.  For real.  Do yourself a favor, go look at how Pete Carroll does outside of Seattle (hands down the toughest place to play for an opposing team).  It aint pretty for such an amazing HC.  

 

I love Rex, best coach we have ever had. And, I think Carroll is a clown, and very overrated.

 

But to play devils adjectives, would Rex have even been able to take advantage of having Wilson last year anyway? The Seahawks developed an offense for him, I don't think Spranao could have, and, Carroll at least chose Wilson to start when the safe money was on Flynn given his FA money.

 

If there is one thing I don't like about Rex it is his loyalty to sh*tchez, and I question whether he would have even started Wilson over sh*tchez last year anyway. That said, Rex is a million times a better coach than Carroll.

[JoeKlecko]

Pete Carroll isnt a clown or a doofus?  Have you seen some the cheerleader moronic sh*t he does?

 

1 winning season because they found a QB who exceeded everyone expectations and this dude is doing a great job so far?  Meanwhile, Rex has had only 1 losing season, with Mark Sanchez and the guy should be fired...and this is Rex's first go round as a HC.  Carroll has been a HC since 97.  lmfao

 

You cant make this sh*t up.  For real.  Do yourself a favor, go look at how Pete Carroll does outside of Seattle (hands down the toughest place to play for an opposing team).  It aint pretty for such an amazing HC.  

 

You're right that you can't make the sh*t up on this site with guys like gato and you blindly being homers for Rex.  Being a cheerleader and getting excited doesn't make him a clown or doofus except to cynical, negative people.  Putting your foot in your big yap every time you open it and continually making stupid decisions, and acting like a moron is what makes you a clown and a doofus.

 

You obviously skipped the part where Carroll has had to totally rebuild his entre team.  Rex inherited a team with talent, that was basically missing a QB and a stud pass rusher, and better safety play.