What Does it Tell You About Smith and the Jets....

[Smashmouth]

If the guy he was competing against could be out multiple weeks and the Jets still have not named him the starter, officially . Then bring in a lost cause like Brady Quinn.

 

That's right it tells you he sucks. Sucks bad.

 

I can't think of Many NFL QB's if any who have come into the league with such terrible fundamentals (you know like taking a snap and dropping back or throwing off the proper foot, with a horribly slow release)  that turned into anything decent at the position. Matter of fact I can't think of any at all.  

 

I've always been a Jets fan that had hope yes even in the mid 90's when I felt our only big issue was an Idiot for a coach but the last 2 years IMO have been the worst I have ever experienced as a Jets fan because you just knew this team sucked and simply could not compete on the offensive side of the ball. No matter what you feel was the biggest issue Lack of Talent, Lack of a QB, lack of a competent offensive coach, or the lack of a Head Coach who gave a damn about the offense enough to know WTF was going on when asked questions by reporters who seemed to know more than he did. with all these issues being discussed at one time or another it tells you quite simply we have a ton of issues across the board.

 

This team has been a hot Joke in just about every aspect and if you think the Defense is so great you better take another look because it all seems like smoke and mirrors as well. Teams have no reason to test this defense because they know we can't score so why let the defense beat you ? Play it conservative, they will eventually tire out and in the End the Jets vaunted defense will give it up they are not the Ravens of the past 14 years, they are NOT the 49er's of the present and even when we were ranked high and playing the Steelers in the AFCCG we were not the Steelers either. Our Defense was darn good in 09 and 10 but it was still not among those ranks I mentioned in the last sentence. 

 

I'm sure some of you will differ with various points I've made here and that's fine that's why we come to this message board to discuss the Jets but the biggest fall IMO this team has suffered is in the issue of character. Mangini, while a bad x's and O's guy certainly understood the importance of the team concept so when Rex came in and got creative with the defense ha still had a damn good locker room filled with leaders and smart football players now He's got a bunch of wannabes and Idiots. This is not a very smart football team over all nor is it run very smartly by the HC. The players he brought in here his third year destroyed any type of life this team had left in it after 2 AFCCG appearances and pushed aside character guys like Cotchery who gave their heart and soul for this team. It was just bad all the way around and it seems like it has the good chance of getting much much worse before it gets better. 

 

The Jets have been historically bad (as some joked on the Brady Quinn comment) but I have always been proud to be a Jets fan. This is the first year in 40 that I have been watching this team that I have absolutely no enthusiasm and no hope. Yep this even surpasses the Charlie Winner, Lou Holtz and Joe Walton days. I really do hope I'm wrong but I have a feeling I'm not and I also have a feeling this team will not turn things around until a guy like Rex Ryan is given his walking papers. Sure the guy is a talented DC but that's far from all it takes to run an organization and have a big say in the direction of the football team. This league has passed him by before he even knew WTF hit him.

 

[T0mShane]

but what about the weppinz

[Lizard King]

Is it possible that a rookie qb was never supposed to start week 1, and they just got hit with a stroke of bad luck? Paging Shaun Hill, Matt Cassell, need I go on. Let's not blame the staff for overcast weather

[Smashmouth]

Is it possible that a rookie qb was never supposed to start week 1, and they just got hit with a stroke of bad luck? Paging Shaun Hill, Matt Cassell, need I go on. Let's not blame the staff for overcast weather

 

It is very possible I think Sanchez was supposed to be the guy no matter what, just like the last 4 years. But when I see what this kid has and then I see optimistic fans who think he might surprise or have a chance I just think its wishful thinking. The Issues this kid has takes years to fix and most of the time (probably 95% of the time) they never ever get fixed and the QB in question always reverts back because its what they have been doing their entire lives. Its not easy to just turn a switch, just ask Tim Tebow who I'm sure works just as hard if not harder than any player in the league and he still can't get mechanics straight.

 

When I see a player like Geno Smith throwing off his back foot in a situation where there is no defender near him that's a huge issue and add that to his pathetically slow release and you have a major issue. Lets not even talk about taking a snap and dropping back. Yes I know I gave Sanchez the benefit of the doubt because he came into the league with good footwork a strong arm and he moved well in the pocket his issue was different his issues seem to be mental and making boneheaded mistakes those are much easier to fix than ingrained mechanics, much easier. When I saw a few things Sanchez did this offseason and then the interception to a Defensive lineman at the 5 yard line I just about gave up on him ever getting away from the dumb pathetic mistakes it really is a shame because he has the talent .

 

I'm not blaming Idzik and I'm not blaming Rex for Geno, I think they made the right move taking him when they did, I just personally do not think he's going to pan out. Its not about a rookie learning the speed of the NFL its about a rookie with glaring Issues that are rarely if ever fixed and he has a bunch of them. if he didn't have said issues and just had to learn the game and the offense then I would be all for Geno but as I stated its not that simple.

 

This team will have a new coach and a new philosophy next season I guarantee it. I hope we can get a real leader in here who knows how to handle young men and turn them into winners because the last time we had that was Bill Parcells and I fully believe we got screwed out of a possible SB due to a freak Injury to our QB.

[Klecko73isGod]

It is very possible I think Sanchez was supposed to be the guy no matter what, just like the last 4 years. But when I see what this kid has and then I see optimistic fans who think he might surprise or have a chance I just think its wishful thinking. The Issues this kid has takes years to fix and most of the time (probably 95% of the time) they never ever get fixed and the QB in question always reverts back because its what they have been doing their entire lives. Its not easy to just turn a switch, just ask Tim Tebow who I'm sure works just as hard if not harder than any player in the league and he still can't get mechanics straight.

 

When I see a player like Geno Smith throwing off his back foot in a situation where there is no defender near him that's a huge issue and add that to his pathetically slow release and you have a major issue. Lets not even talk about taking a snap and dropping back. Yes I know I gave Sanchez the benefit of the doubt because he came into the league with good footwork a strong arm and he moved well in the pocket his issue was different his issues seem to be mental and making boneheaded mistakes those are much easier to fix than ingrained mechanics, much easier. When I saw a few things Sanchez did this offseason and then the interception to a Defensive lineman at the 5 yard line I just about gave up on him ever getting away from the dumb pathetic mistakes it really is a shame because he has the talent .

 

I'm not blaming Idzik and I'm not blaming Rex for Geno, I think they made the right move taking him when they did, I just personally do not think he's going to pan out. Its not about a rookie learning the speed of the NFL its about a rookie with glaring Issues that are rarely if ever fixed and he has a bunch of them. if he didn't have said issues and just had to learn the game and the offense then I would be all for Geno but as I stated its not that simple.

 

This team will have a new coach and a new philosophy next season I guarantee it. I hope we can get a real leader in here who knows how to handle young men and turn them into winners because the last time we had that was Bill Parcells and I fully believe we got screwed out of a possible SB due to a freak Injury to our QB.

 

 

I have no doubt that if Geno Smith shows even the whiff of competence on Sunday that you will quickly become his biggest cheerleader...

[Smashmouth]

I have no doubt that if Geno Smith shows even the whiff of competence on Sunday that you will quickly become his biggest cheerleader...

 

And I have no doubt you probably didn't read a thing I said in either post in this thread/ Whiffs of Competence happen all the time. What it will take is consistency and mechanics that don't look like a total disaster.

[slats]

All the signing of Brady Quinn tells me is that Sanchez's injury may be worse than they're letting on.

[faba]

Quinns signing to me  is they want an experienced QB to be ready to go in if and when Geno struggles. Mark Sanchez may never play a down for the Jets again

[GKnight83]

I think they thought David Garrard was going to start.  That was a poor plan given he was coming off an injury.  This really has the look of an organization focusing on the bottom line instead of trying to come away with an 8-8 record.  If that is true I cannot blame them.  One more year and the house cleaning can resume.

[dbatesman]

Sweet merciful crap.

[flgreen]

I think they thought David Garrard was going to start.  That was a poor plan given he was coming off an injury.  This really has the look of an organization focusing on the bottom line instead of trying to come away with an 8-8 record.  If that is true I cannot blame them.  One more year and the house cleaning can resume.

 

I agree on the Garrard part.  That was Idzik's plan.  A bad one, but the plan.

 

I disagree on the  bolded part.  .  Why should the fans go and spend a ton of money on Sunday to watch a team that the front office isn't trying to win games.  if they feel they could go 8-8, it's certainly not inconceivable to get a roll and win 1 or 2 more games, and make the playoffs. 

 

if I still lived up there, I wouldn't bother to go to any games.  An empty stadium isn't going to make Woody happy

[Joe Jets fan]

I stopped reading at slow release, have u actually seem Smith throw a pass?  He has one of the quickest releases I have seen in years.  He has lots of problems, foot work, staring down tartgets.  You lost all arguments after slow release.

[kay_gee]

OP: tl;dr

[Big Blocker]

about Geno Smith...

 

I can understand the concerns about his fundamentals, and how those concerns might well translate into him being a likely bust.  But let's not forget Marty is better than average at developing Qb's.  I know Mike Vick has issues, including being fragile.  But moving to Philly was like an instant upgrade in his performance.  Many credited Andy Reid at the time, but I do think it was probably more about Marty.  So, let's give Marty a chance to work with Geno, and see what happens.

 

If Geno shows no improvement as the year goes on, it will suck to have to go back into the draft to get a new Qb, but at least the picture will be clear by then.  Right now, I understand the other part, about a lack of confidence, really a feeling that the Jets right now do not inspire any real confidence.  But I do think it's premature to give up on Smith.

[Matt39]

I stopped reading at slow release, have u actually seem Smith throw a pass?  He has one of the quickest releases I have seen in years.  He has lots of problems, foot work, staring down tartgets.  You lost all arguments after slow release.

 

Nah, its slow. He brings the ball down then brings it back up...its slow as sh*t imo.

[Big Blocker]

I agree on the Garrard part.  That was Idzik's plan.  A bad one, but the plan.

 

I disagree on the  bolded part.  .  Why should the fans go and spend a ton of money on Sunday to watch a team that the front office isn't trying to win games.  if they feel they could go 8-8, it's certainly not inconceivable to get a roll and win 1 or 2 more games, and make the playoffs. 

 

if I still lived up there, I wouldn't bother to go to any games.  An empty stadium isn't going to make Woody happy

 

Frankly I thought the Garrard move was a bad one even at the time it was announced.  Talk about fragile!  Based on his history of injuries, he had virtually no shot to last even for a decent stretch of games in the regular season.  But perhaps it will work out for the best, if in fact Smith does not stick as the starter, because Quin could be a hold the fort guy.  Could be...  I did read somewhere that Idzik got word despite Quin being cut that he looked good in Seattle's camp.  In other words he looks like a more dependable vet than Garrard would have been with his injuries. 

[JohnnyLV]

All this is about is Rex thinking it gives the Jets an advantage if the opposing team needs to prepare for 2 QBs. Thats it.

[JoeKlecko]

Smash,

 

I hear ya, guy.  I think that anyone who has been a Jets fan for more than  20 years (perhaps shorter) has been where you are now.  I was that way during the Kotite era, and pretty much ALL the way thru the Herm era, and much of the Mangini era, and have totally been there for the last 2 years of the Rex era.

 

Now is different for me.  For the first time in years, I have real hope.  Of course, it could all be a mirage and I could have my heart ripped from my chest, thrown in the dirt, and jumped upon again, but I do have hope.

 

Following is why I have hope.

 

I think the team's hopes begin and end with the owner.  From about the time the Joe Walton era was ending, I had zero hopes that Leon Hess would ever make a good decision for the team.  He surprised me with Parcells.  I despised Parcells, but knew what he could do for the team.  I appreciated what he did do, but then as always showed his true colors and abandoned the team.

 

I have believed Woody to be the second coming of Leon Hess pretty much since Parcells left and he made Tranny the GM.  Still, I had some hope during Tanny's first year or two.  Then his modus operandi and patterns clearly emerged, and the team never had the talent to really succeed.  They overachieved in 2009 and 2010 due to three things: 1. The bump a team always gets for a year or two when changing from an oppressive disciplinarian HC to a player's HC; 2. Rex's creative ability with schemes; 3. The veteran leadership the team had in some of Tranny's few good FA moves.  Then Tranny and Rex proceeded to destroy the positives they had with thinking the team was better than it was, cutting and trading away those veteran leaders, bringing in low character players, and overpaying mediocre players like Sanchez and Tone.

 

At the end of last season, I was done as a Jets fan.  After 50 years of rooting for this God-forsaken team, I was done.  I wasn't gonna root against them, but sure wasn't gonna waste my time rooting for them, keeping up with news on the team, or posting on Jets boards.  

 

Then during the offseason, I heard that Woody had hired a search firm to find the new GM. That was a departure from his norm.  That piqued my curiosity a little.  I read to see who possible GM candidates were, and identified several whom I wanted the Jets to hire.  When a couple of those immediately withdrew their name from consideration or were interviewed then were hired elsewhere, my hopes took a bit of a downturn.  I had never heard of Idzik and wasn't in favor of his hiring.  When I read a bit about his background, it was encouraging.

 

Not all of his moves have worked out this offseason (but which GM do they always work out for?), but he showed me enough that he is a no-nonsense football man and is intent on rebuilding this team in the right way.  He started clearing the cap and the team of dead wood.  I have no doubts that had he been able, both Sanchez and Tone would no longer be on the team now.  He wasn't, but I have every reason to believe that they and the rest of the dead wood will be gone next season.  The talent level is already much better than it was the last two years.  Next year there is a ton of cap space, the Jets not only have all their draft picks, but should have a number of comp picks (which is an exceedingly rare circumstance for the Jets), and their luck seems to be changing.  Idzik didn't panic in the draft.  He didn't waste picks trading up for players he fell in love with.  He took an intelligent approach to the draft going BAP and trying to shore up the OL.  He liked Geno, but was patient and got him at great value.

 

Yes, Geno needs a lot of work on his fundamentals and while he doesn't have prototypical size nor the ability to run the ball that I wish he had, the guy has a ton of talent.  You don't put up the numbers he did at a division 1 program playing teams like Oklahoma, OK State, Kansas St., etc. with a lousy OL, no rushing attack to speak of, no defense, and having to carry the team on your own, while often calling the plays on your own, without having a ton of potential at QB.  He's a hard worker and has the arm strength and accuracy to succeed.  He may not ever, or it may take him a year or two.  So what?  Haven't we basically waited 40 years for another QB anyway?  What's another year or two if you know you at least finally have a prospect with real potential as opposed to all the bums they've had over the years.  Even if he busts, it won't really hurt the team that much.  They got him for great value and he doesn't have a huge cap hit.  They can give him a year or two and if doesn't develop, cut bait and move on.  I may not agree with every move he makes, but I do have hope and at least at this point, firmly believe that overall Idzik will do a very good job rebuilding the talent on this team, and will make good coaching hires if given the opportunity.  Of course he could turn out to disappoint and be only marginally better than Tranny.  If that happens, I'll see where I am at that point.  Until then, I'm going to try to focus on the positives.  The team has some great young talent and players.  I think they finally have a quality OC.  I expect Rex and the circus to be gone after this season, and a whole new "chapter" in the history of the franchise to begin being written this season.

 

Hang in there, my friend.

[Integrity28]

LOL, good grief smashmouth... good grief.

[Bleedin Green]

LOL, good grief smashmouth... good grief.

 

What, it doesn't make perfect sense to you that the one poster who spent more time defending both Chad and Sanchez than anyone else on these boards has already come to a conclusion about the prospects (or lack thereof) of a second round pick before ever taking a single regular season snap?

 

Apparently 3 quarters of preseason football is more telling than 4+ years of regular season and postseason football.  Who knew?

[#27TheDominator]

Isn't that Jim's annual post?  What the **** are you doing Smash?  Know your role.  ******* usurper.

[Integrity28]

Isn't that Jim's annual post?  What the **** are you doing Smash?  Know your role.  ******* usurper.

 

Not sure who Jim is, but you get points for quoting the Rock and using the word "usurper".

[#27TheDominator]

Not sure who Jim is, but you get points for quoting the Rock and using the word "usurper".

 

Jim is SoFlaJets.  One of the nicest guys here and a great musician, but almost every year he has a post where he claims that this is the straw that broke the camel's back and he just doesn't care anymore.  It's the worst year ever.  I find it hard to believe that guys that have lived through Charlie Winner, Lou Holtz and Rich Kottite can say that with a straight face, but....

[Matt39]

Jim is SoFlaJets. One of the nicest guys here and a great musician, but almost every year he has a post where he claims that this is the straw that broke the camel's back and he just doesn't care anymore. It's the worst year ever. I find it hard to believe that guys that have lived through Charlie Winner, Lou Holtz and Rich Kottite can say that with a straight face, but....

Frank: It's the same old story. Boy finds girl, boy loses girl, girl finds boy, boy forgets girl, boy remembers girl, girls dies in a tragic blimp accident over the Orange Bowl on New Year's Day.

Jane: Goodyear?

Frank: No, the worst.

[Jacked4JetsFB]

I don't understand why the hell they don't just announce Smith as the starter already, unless he is hurt. It seems like even if Sanchez was healthy, Smith was going to start anyway, so just do it already. I don't know if they think they are fooling the Bucs, or what, but it does not make sense to me unless he is hurt. I think even the biggest Smith supporters would agree that the guy is at the very least, very raw, but this is the direction Idzig wants to go, so this is how they are going. I personally would have preferred to see Simms in there, to see what he can do and let Geno watch real games up close, study the film, work on things a bit more, but I get why they are not doing that. But it is curious as to why they would not announce it already.

[bitonti]

I don't understand why the hell they don't just announce Smith as the starter already,  

 

did you not see the Giants game?

[Joe Jets fan]

Nah, its slow. He brings the ball down then brings it back up...its slow as sh*t imo.

 

Well I disagree, I watched very closely in Cortland and compaired it to all three other QB's and it was very quick.  How strong his arm was and his quick release were the two things that stood out to me.

[Jacked4JetsFB]

did you not see the Giants game?

I did, and I am not saying I think he should, or want him to start, what I am saying is it is clear he is going to start. Since he is going to start, I don't understand why not to announce him the starter. Given the current QB situation, it seems only Geno or Simms are the options to start. That said, I would strongly prefer Simms be given the start, as I saw all of the same things the OP saw. I won't draw the same conclusions, that Geno will never be good, because I think it is way too early to say that, but if your mechanics are not sound, you have a real uphill battle. I don't think mechanics is something you can learn on the job, they need to be second nature to start at QB in the NFL IMO.

[Matt39]

Well I disagree, I watched very closely in Cortland and compaired it to all three other QB's and it was very quick.  How strong his arm was and his quick release were the two things that stood out to me.

 

Thought he looked good while I was in Cortland too. The Giants game was a different story. The mechanics were sloppy. Ran like he had two left feet. Everything just looked off.

[Jacked4JetsFB]

Well I disagree, I watched very closely in Cortland and compaired it to all three other QB's and it was very quick.  How strong his arm was and his quick release were the two things that stood out to me.

While I did not see him in person, in live game action, his release was anything but quick. His arm was very strong, and when he planted and threw it he looked pretty accurate. That said, it seemed like every throw you could see the release in slow motion. His mechanics are definitely a mess right now.

[Integrity28]

Jim is SoFlaJets.  One of the nicest guys here and a great musician, but almost every year he has a post where he claims that this is the straw that broke the camel's back and he just doesn't care anymore.  It's the worst year ever.  I find it hard to believe that guys that have lived through Charlie Winner, Lou Holtz and Rich Kottite can say that with a straight face, but....

 

Oh, Jimmy - gotcha, he's the one that brought me here. 

[Smashmouth]

What, it doesn't make perfect sense to you that the one poster who spent more time defending both Chad and Sanchez than anyone else on these boards has already come to a conclusion about the prospects (or lack thereof) of a second round pick before ever taking a single regular season snap?

 

Apparently 3 quarters of preseason football is more telling than 4+ years of regular season and postseason football.  Who knew?

 

I base my evaluation of a QB by actually watching him play and when you see such glaring flaws that Geno has that Pennington or Sanchez never had yes it raises concerns. If you think these concerns will miraculously fix themselves then more power to you. Sure Penny had the weak arm after multiple injuries and that's unfortunate and Sanchez just refuses to stop turning over the football but they did not have all the fundamental flaws that Geno has been showing thru college and so far in the pros. I mean for Christ's sake the guy can even put together a solid practice from what we've heard. But that's not the problem we should expect him to struggle because he's a rookie and I'm fine with giving him a chance but those flaws are never easily corrected and that's all I'm pointing out. Not many QB's come into this league and improve upon the problems I see and others have seen in Geno. if he can overcome them great and I hope he does and I hope he lights it up just like I hoped for Penny and Sanchez but I just don't see it happening.

[Smashmouth]

LOL, good grief smashmouth... good grief.

 

good grief what ? If you want to have hope for Geno that's fine I get it.

[Bleedin Green]

I base my evaluation of a QB by actually watching him play and when you see such glaring flaws that Geno has that Pennington or Sanchez never had yes it raises concerns. If you think these concerns will miraculously fix themselves then more power to you. Sure Penny had the weak arm after multiple injuries and that's unfortunate and Sanchez just refuses to stop turning over the football but they did not have all the fundamental flaws that Geno has been showing thru college and so far in the pros. I mean for Christ's sake the guy can even put together a solid practice from what we've heard. But that's not the problem we should expect him to struggle because he's a rookie and I'm fine with giving him a chance but those flaws are never easily corrected and that's all I'm pointing out. Not many QB's come into this league and improve upon the problems I see and others have seen in Geno. if he can overcome them great and I hope he does and I hope he lights it up just like I hoped for Penny and Sanchez but I just don't see it happening.

 

Pennington is obviously a whole different debate, but I think Sanchez pretty clearly had some major issues with his play from his rookie year on that never even slightly changed.  I think all of us (myself included) allowed ourselves to be blinded by a rather surprising start from him in that first game vs the Texans, but the truth is there were some epic disasters from him shortly thereafter.  Just take a look back at that laughably horrendous Bills game.  It was even worse than what we saw out of Geno vs the Giants, and Sanchez had 300+ rushing yards to help him out, yet didn't have people giving him this much crap.

 

I'm not even defending Geno, because while I hope he works out, I've got nothing to make any definitive conclusion based on at this point.  I just find it kind of crazy how I'm not sure I can come up with any other examples of so many people making such an immediate rush to judgment against a player before the start of his first NFL season.

[Integrity28]

good grief what ? If you want to have hope for Geno that's fine I get it.

 

 

Your post is a joke, my saying so has absolutely nothing to do with being hopeful.

 

If you had just said, "I don't think Geno will be good", then I'd say "fair enough". Instead you are concluding his career potential based on the nuances of the front office inaction and a very small pre-season sampling of his play. Not because there's anything factual there, but because if you spin it hard enough it aligns with your opinion. 

 

Just state your opinion man, don't sell a bunch of theoretical bullsh*t.