The Offensive Line

[Jetsfan80]

The O-line had a rough year overall if you look at advanced stats.  According to FootballOutsiders, we were 21st in adjusted line yards on the ground and 27th in adjusted sack rate:  http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/ol

 

We were 5th in the NFL in carries, so it's important to look at where we had our success, or lack thereof, in the ground game.  The numbers bear out as follows:

 

LEFT END/Ferguson (8 % of carries):  4.81 ALY, 3rd in the NFL

 

LEFT TACKLE/Ferguson & Winters (12 %):  3.59, 23rd

 

MIDDLE/Winters, Mangold & Colon (54 %):  4.00, 15th

 

RIGHT TACKLE/Colon & Howard (20 %):  3.16, 28th

 

RIGHT END/Howard (6 %):  3.26, 24th

 

 

The numbers appear to suggest that Colon and Howard, both UFA's, could be far more replaceable than we originally thought.  

 

Winters came along nicely near the end of the 2013 campaign, but his early struggles are captured by the data.  

 

It may be time to consider what Nick Mangold's future is.  At 29, his play has dropped off steadily the last 2-3 years, whether it be due to injuries or having to cover for inexperienced or incapable interior line teammates (Vlad Ducasse comes to mind).  

 

Mangold is due to carry a $7.2M cap number in 2014 and $10.4M in 2015, far too much for a center who is no longer top 3 at his position.  The Jets could cut him after 2015 and save $7.4M with only $3M in dead money.  It becomes even more advantageous to cut ties after 2016.  Nothing will be done about him this offseason, but it's worth a discussion.

 

 

Free Agents to consider:

 

RG Jon Asamoah, Chiefs, 6-4 / 305 (UFA):  The Chiefs were 5th in the NFL at running up the middle and 6th at running to the right side off tackle.  Asamoah was a huge reason why.  The Chiefs also have to pay LT Brandon Albert, so perhaps Asamoah can be persuaded to leave KC.

 

RT Eric Winston, Cardinals, 6-7 / 302 (UFA):  One of the best in the business, and the numbers make that clear.  The Cardinals were 13th in pass protection as an o-line unit, 8th when running right off tackle and 16th off right end despite having one of the weaker RB units in the NFL.  

 

LG Zane Beadles, Broncos, 6-4 / 305 (UFA):  The Broncos were 12th at running left off tackle and 13th up the middle.  Beadles has the versatility to pay both OT and G and would be a highly valuable addition.

 

RG Jeff Linkenbach, Colts, 6-6 / 325 (UFA):  Linkenbach is part of a top 5 pass-blocking OL that kept Andrew Luck on his feet all season.  They were also 2nd in the NFL at running off right tackle.  

 

LG Chris Williams, Rams, 6-6 / 326 (UFA):  The Rams were 11th at running off left tackle and 17th up the middle. Zac Stacy was almost unstoppable the 2nd half of the season for the Rams running behind the line, and that was with teams stacking the box daring Kellen Clemens to throw.

 

RT Bryon Bell, Panthers, 6-5 / 340 (RFA):  The Panthers were not strong in pass protection, but when running off right tackle they ranked 9th and off right end 13th.  This was significantly better productivity than Howard produced for the Jets.

 

RT Michael Oher, Ravens, 6-4 / 315 (UFA):  The Ravens were pedestrian at pass protection and dead last in run blocking overall.  However when running off right end, the Ravens had some success, finishing 14th.  Perhaps the subject of "Blind Side" would present an upgrade for the Jets at RT.

[Integrity28]

Good post. We aren't winning sh*t until we improve our OL, amongst other things.

[Jetsfan80]

Good post. We aren't winning sh*t until we improve our OL, amongst other things.

 

Yep.  I think we need a brand new right side of the O-line this offseason.  Next offseason we need to look to restructure/give pay cuts to Mangold and Brick.  

 

The most successful teams are spending relatively equally on all 5 spots of the o-line.  We overspent at LT and C and as a result have been bargain basement shopping at the other 3 spots for far too long.  

 

With Rex back it would seem we're still going to be a run-heavy team, so it's more pertinent than ever to find upgrades at the "road grader" spots.  RT in a way is included in that.  We had our most successful offensive season when Damien Woody, a G/T hybrid type, was manning that RT spot.  Woody was 6-3, 330 lbs.  The best equivalent on the list I provided would by Bryon Bell, a 6-5, 340 lbs. monster.

[Integrity28]

Idzik acquiring Ivory and adding OL with most if last years moves, albeit on the cheap, tells me he won't necessarily neglect the line. Our draft last year was heavy in the trenches.

[Jetsfan80]

Idzik acquiring Ivory and adding OL with most if last years moves, albeit on the cheap, tells me he won't necessarily neglpect the line. Our draft last year was heavy in the trenches.

 

We know Campbell is a long-term project.  Any reason to think Oboushi will amount to something?

[Integrity28]

We know Campbell is a long-term project. Any reason to think Oboushi will amount to something?

No. But I like that there was a clear emphasis on finding OL /DL depth.

[jgb]

Always thought best place to start a rebuild was on the offensive line. And lets not kid ourselves, despite the 8-8 record this is a full scale rebuild.

[Jetlife33]

Winston is no joke he's legit

[Integrity28]

Winston is no joke he's legit

 

Where does he play along the OL?

[bitonti]

yes let's cut the only pro bowler on offense. hoo-ray. 

[bitonti]

Idzik acquiring Ivory and adding OL with most if last years moves, albeit on the cheap, tells me he won't necessarily neglect the line. Our draft last year was heavy in the trenches.

 

Idzik think he's already addressed the line. Look for William Campbell and Oday Aboushi to be gifted starting positions... Brian Winters style

 

that being said Winters actually played well vs. Miami. He could be a good one with offseason strength training. 

[Matt39]

what year is this Greg Robinson kid Bit

[eboozer]

The O-line had a rough year overall if you look at advanced stats.  According to FootballOutsiders, we were 21st in adjusted line yards on the ground and 27th in adjusted sack rate:  http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/ol

 

We were 5th in the NFL in carries, so it's important to look at where we had our success, or lack thereof, in the ground game.  The numbers bear out as follows:

 

LEFT END/Ferguson (8 % of carries):  4.81 ALY, 3rd in the NFL

 

LEFT TACKLE/Ferguson & Winters (12 %):  3.59, 23rd

 

MIDDLE/Winters, Mangold & Colon (54 %):  4.00, 15th

 

RIGHT TACKLE/Colon & Howard (20 %):  3.16, 28th

 

RIGHT END/Howard (6 %):  3.26, 24th

 

 

The numbers appear to suggest that Colon and Howard, both UFA's, could be far more replaceable than we originally thought.  

 

Winters came along nicely near the end of the 2013 campaign, but his early struggles are captured by the data.  

 

It may be time to consider what Nick Mangold's future is.  At 29, his play has dropped off steadily the last 2-3 years, whether it be due to injuries or having to cover for inexperienced or incapable interior line teammates (Vlad Ducasse comes to mind).  

 

Mangold is due to carry a $7.2M cap number in 2014 and $10.4M in 2015, far too much for a center who is no longer top 3 at his position.  The Jets could cut him after 2015 and save $7.4M with only $3M in dead money.  It becomes even more advantageous to cut ties after 2016.  Nothing will be done about him this offseason, but it's worth a discussion.

 

 

Free Agents to consider:

 

RG Jon Asamoah, Chiefs, 6-4 / 305 (UFA):  The Chiefs were 5th in the NFL at running up the middle and 6th at running to the right side off tackle.  Asamoah was a huge reason why.  The Chiefs also have to pay LT Brandon Albert, so perhaps Asamoah can be persuaded to leave KC.

 

RT Eric Winston, Cardinals, 6-7 / 302 (UFA):  One of the best in the business, and the numbers make that clear.  The Cardinals were 13th in pass protection as an o-line unit, 8th when running right off tackle and 16th off right end despite having one of the weaker RB units in the NFL.  

 

LG Zane Beadles, Broncos, 6-4 / 305 (UFA):  The Broncos were 12th at running left off tackle and 13th up the middle.  Beadles has the versatility to pay both OT and G and would be a highly valuable addition.

 

RG Jeff Linkenbach, Colts, 6-6 / 325 (UFA):  Linkenbach is part of a top 5 pass-blocking OL that kept Andrew Luck on his feet all season.  They were also 2nd in the NFL at running off right tackle.  

 

LG Chris Williams, Rams, 6-6 / 326 (UFA):  The Rams were 11th at running off left tackle and 17th up the middle. Zac Stacy was almost unstoppable the 2nd half of the season for the Rams running behind the line, and that was with teams stacking the box daring Kellen Clemens to throw.

 

RT Bryon Bell, Panthers, 6-5 / 340 (RFA):  The Panthers were not strong in pass protection, but when running off right tackle they ranked 9th and off right end 13th.  This was significantly better productivity than Howard produced for the Jets.

 

RT Michael Oher, Ravens, 6-4 / 315 (UFA):  The Ravens were pedestrian at pass protection and dead last in run blocking overall.  However when running off right end, the Ravens had some success, finishing 14th.  Perhaps the subject of "Blind Side" would present an upgrade for the Jets at RT.

I'd  take any of those guys, except Oher. Winstons 30 yrs old with some miles, these other guys are in the mid 20's. I'd go for youth.

[BroadwayJoe12]

There's no way they cut Howard, who is more than serviceable as our RT, plus will not be expensive to retain. Those numbers running to the right side are surprising, but Howard did more than enough in pass-pro to warrant keeping his job. You just simply do not replace players unless you already have someone better to replace them with. 

[stoicsentry]

Am I really the only one that didn't have a problem with our offensive line this season? What's the major knock you guys have against them? I thought they were fine. Tied for 9th in the league in YPC with the worst passing game in the league to back them up, and they cut down Geno's sacks by almost 50% in the 2nd half of the season, which is a sign to me that Geno was just holding onto the ball way too long in the 1st half of the season.

[Freemanm]

The only one off the list is Bell. I think he would make excellent competition for Winters, who, by the way, I thought had a decent rookie year. The other guys on that list are either too old (in football years) or would cost way too much.

[pedro55]

I think they need to improve the OL,  but this team can't keep signing or picking guys that suck either.  They have picked OL or signed OL over the years, it's just many haven't worked out.  But if you look at it,  DBrick, Mangold, & Winters might not have had great years, but at this point, 3 out of the 5 positions should pretty much not be worries.   Depth maybe, and add another guy, but going into the draft thinking you need to get a bunch of OL makes no sense.   

 

 They have no Talent on offense.  You get a WR or TE who can get open and catch, and if Geno or any QB can throw,  the OL don't need to hold their blocks for 20 seconds.  That'll improve your OL far more than drafting more guys like Ducasse.

[bitonti]

what year is this Greg Robinson kid Bit

 

Robinson could declare and be in the first round conversation. there are some who like him better than Matthews and Lewan. 

[Jetsfan80]

yes let's cut the only pro bowler on offense. hoo-ray. 

 

Mangold hasn't played at a Pro Bowl level in some time.  Even the top centers in the league shouldn't be paid like Mangold is, so we should at least expect top of the line production out of him.  Also, I'd prefer the restructure/paycut route, not cutting, but if need be we could do so.

[bitonti]

Mangold hasn't played at a Pro Bowl level in some time.  Even the top centers in the league shouldn't be paid like Mangold is, so we should at least expect top of the line production out of him.  Also, I'd prefer the restructure/paycut route, not cutting, but if need be we could do so.

 

this is your opinion. If you look at the PFF rankings or the fact that he's a Pro Bowl alternate same as Mo... well there's a case to be made he's worth it.  In the article you posted or wrote, Mangold is clearly the best part of the OL and by extension the best part of the offense. "not worth it" just like Revis wasn't worth it. at some point the Jets have to pay someone. 

[Jetsfan80]

Am I really the only one that didn't have a problem with our offensive line this season? What's the major knock you guys have against them? I thought they were fine. Tied for 9th in the league in YPC with the worst passing game in the league to back them up, and they cut down Geno's sacks by almost 50% in the 2nd half of the season, which is a sign to me that Geno was just holding onto the ball way too long in the 1st half of the season.

 

The numbers seem to indicate our YPC was not an accurate measure of our o-line's success.  A lot of our great rushing days came against really bad run defenses.  Adjusted Line Yards takes into account context (down and distance of each run, opponent, second level yards, etc).

[Jetsfan80]

this is your opinion. If you look at the PFF rankings or the fact that he's a Pro Bowl alternate same as Mo... well there's a case to be made he's worth it.  In the article you posted or wrote, Mangold is clearly the best part of the OL and by extension the best part of the offense. "not worth it" just like Revis wasn't worth it. at some point the Jets have to pay someone. 

 

Revis wasn't worth it, and both his GM and HC got fired this offseason following a disastrous 4-12 campaign.  Certain positions just shouldn't take up the kind of cap space they're allocated.  Even a great center isn't worth $7-$10M.  Tannenbaum was fired in part because of a lot of bad contracts and it's hard to argue Mangold's isn't one of them.  The question we'll have to address by 2015 is what to do about it.

[bitonti]

Revis wasn't worth it, and both his GM and HC got fired this offseason following a disastrous 4-12 campaign.  Certain positions just shouldn't take up the kind of cap space they're allocated.  Even a great center isn't worth $7-$10M.  Tannenbaum was fired in part because of a lot of bad contracts and it's hard to argue Mangold's isn't one of them.  The question we'll have to address by 2015 is what to do about it.

 

the problem with your logic is that the Jets can't take the Mangold money and pay Peyton Manning. this isn't a choice. their choice is between Mangold and not Mangold. Freeing up all this money and having no one worthwhile to pay it to, is a step backward for this team. Mangold might be expensive but also awesome. There's no awesome QB just waiting for the Jets to free up cash. They could sign a sh*tty and cheap center, how does that help the Jets win games? 

 

btw Mangold's contract isn't one of the bad ones because Mangold plays well. When's the last time this team won without Nick Mangold?  

[Lizard King]

this is your opinion. If you look at the PFF rankings or the fact that he's a Pro Bowl alternate same as Mo... well there's a case to be made he's worth it. In the article you posted or wrote, Mangold is clearly the best part of the OL and by extension the best part of the offense. "not worth it" just like Revis wasn't worth it. at some point the Jets have to pay someone.

Um yeah. So uh guys, the computer said mangold had a really lousy deviation from the mean for centers over the last 30 years and that's not acceptable guys, so we gotta cut mangold because we don't ever **** with stats man

[Lizard King]

the problem with your logic is that the Jets can't take the Mangold money and pay Peyton Manning. this isn't a choice. their choice is between Mangold and not Mangold. Freeing up all this money and having no one worthwhile to pay it to, is a step backward for this team.Mangold might be expensive but they are also awesome. There's no awesome QB just waiting for the Jets to free up cash. They could sign a sh*tty and cheap center, how does that help the Jets win games?

btw Mangold's contract isn't one of the bad ones because Mangold plays well. When's the last time this team won without Nick Mangold?

Cutting mangold is probably the worst suggestions that anyone i actualy respect on this board has made in a long time.

[sirlancemehlot]

Am I really the only one that didn't have a problem with our offensive line this season? What's the major knock you guys have against them? I thought they were fine. Tied for 9th in the league in YPC with the worst passing game in the league to back them up, and they cut down Geno's sacks by almost 50% in the 2nd half of the season, which is a sign to me that Geno was just holding onto the ball way too long in the 1st half of the season.

The line wasn't terrible.  It was fair.  But looking at what we have at the offensive skill positions, particularly QB, an Oline that's merely fair isn't going to lead to much success.  When we had a dominant line in '09, the offense couldn't help but run over teams despite having a rookie QB.  There were big holes and lots of time to throw.  That's the best formula when dealing with an inexperienced QB and middle-of-the-road talent at WR.  A strong running game gets stronger, and receivers have plenty of time to separate.  Ivory ran through tacklers all season.  He'd benefit most of all I think.

[Greenseed4]

I know it's early in the process, but Draftek: http://www.drafttek.com/default.asp has us taking Taylor Lewan with the 18th pick. 

 

The **** would we do with Taylor Lewan?!

[Gastineau Lives]

Revis wasn't worth it, and both his GM and HC got fired this offseason following a disastrous 4-12 campaign.  Certain positions just shouldn't take up the kind of cap space they're allocated.  Even a great center isn't worth $7-$10M.  Tannenbaum was fired in part because of a lot of bad contracts and it's hard to argue Mangold's isn't one of them.  The question we'll have to address by 2015 is what to do about it.

 

There was a reason that team underperfomed, Revis' contract wasn't one of them. If that is the case, then their new GM and coach have no choice but to jettison him since his money is not guaranteed.

[Gastineau Lives]

I know it's early in the process, but Draftek: http://www.drafttek.com/default.asp has us taking Taylor Lewan with the 18th pick. 

 

The **** would we do with Taylor Lewan?!

 

 

They also have Ebron going in the second (or worse?)

[Greenseed4]

They also have Ebron going in the second (or worse?)

 

I actually think Ebron going in the second round sounds about right.  I don't know the history of it, but it seems that only one TE gets drafted in the first round most years, and I think Amaro is going to take that honor.  

 

I think Ebron is this year's Stephen Hill.  They come from the same school of how to catch a football.  

[Bleedin Green]

Mangold definitely isn't going anywhere this offseason, although I agree a restructure definitely needs to be a point of discussion next year.  Brick sure as hell isn't going anywhere either, even if his pass pro was a bit disappointing this season.  Beyond that, while he may not have been fantastic, I would still certainly bring back Howard, as he's still a solid starter and was probably the most consistent of all the Jets OL.  If he's looking for a huge contract then certainly forget it, but if you can get him for a reasonable contract then I say do it.  I think the real priority needs to be at the guard positions, as not only are the Jets players there rather uninspiring, upgrading those positions can also very easily have a positive impact on the players around them.  Colon was fine this season for what he was; he was cheap and managed to make it through the whole season (aside from a couple of drives at the very end).  Pretty much exactly what the Jets were hoping to get out of him.  Winters is obviously young and still developing, but who knows what they'll ultimately get from him.

 

That's why I say the Jets can help their OL situation greatly by getting one proven commodity at OG this offseason to immediately step in as a starter, and then a second cheaper option (draft pick or cheaper FA) to compete at the other spot with Winters, and perhaps Colon as well if they opt to bring him back.  In one felt swoop it upgrades the OL for at least one position, if not two, and improves the depth, while not having to make a lot of moves or (hopefully) spend a significant amount of their available many on one position.

[Lizard King]

Mangold definitely isn't going anywhere this offseason, although I agree a restructure definitely needs to be a point of discussion next year.  Brick sure as hell isn't going anywhere either, even if his pass pro was a bit disappointing this season.  Beyond that, while he may not have been fantastic, I would still certainly bring back Howard, as he's still a solid starter and was probably the most consistent of all the Jets OL.  If he's looking for a huge contract then certainly forget it, but if you can get him for a reasonable contract then I say do it.  I think the real priority needs to be at the guard positions, as not only are the Jets players there rather uninspiring, upgrading those positions can also very easily have a positive impact on the players around them.  Colon was fine this season for what he was; he was cheap and managed to make it through the whole season (aside from a couple of drives at the very end).  Pretty much exactly what the Jets were hoping to get out of him.  Winters is obviously young and still developing, but who knows what they'll ultimately get from him.

 

That's why I say the Jets can help their OL situation greatly by getting one proven commodity at OG this offseason to immediately step in as a starter, and then a second cheaper option (draft pick or cheaper FA) to compete at the other spot with Winters, and perhaps Colon as well if they opt to bring him back.  In one felt swoop it upgrades the OL for at least one position, if not two, and improves the depth, while not having to make a lot of moves or (hopefully) spend a significant amount of their available many on one position.

 

Yes. IMO the big reason that Mangold hasn't had whatever season is being desired is the simple fact that the OL has been completely turned over in the past 4 years, short of Furgeson.

[peebag]

still not sold on Winters - his pass blocking at times this year was horrific.  Also would be curious to see how many times run plays were sent to the right side compared to the left.  It seems to me the Jets ran a majority of the time to Colon and Howard's side.

[slats]

Revis wasn't worth it, and both his GM and HC got fired this offseason following a disastrous 4-12 campaign.  Certain positions just shouldn't take up the kind of cap space they're allocated.  Even a great center isn't worth $7-$10M.  Tannenbaum was fired in part because of a lot of bad contracts and it's hard to argue Mangold's isn't one of them.  The question we'll have to address by 2015 is what to do about it.

I agree, but Mangold is probably safe this year. His cap number drops $2M from 2013, and the cap savings if he's cut is only a little over $1M. The roster bonus for Mangold this year is also relatively small (only $650k), so there's no urgency. The minor savings combined with the fact that the Jets don't have a replacement in waiting means they really have no leverage. In 2015, his cap number increases $3M, and the cap savings if he's cut increases to over $7M. That's when they'll address it.

[Gastineau Lives]

I actually think Ebron going in the second round sounds about right.  I don't know the history of it, but it seems that only one TE gets drafted in the first round most years, and I think Amaro is going to take that honor.  

 

I think Ebron is this year's Stephen Hill.  They come from the same school of how to catch a football.  

 

I won't claim to know much about him all I have to go on is what I read and see and all the reports seem to be very positive.

 

From Bleacher Report:

 

"What Ebron brings to the table is not only a great playmaking ability but also an ability to haul in just about any pass thrown his way. If Smith does retain the quarterback position, he needs someone who can catch just about anything."

 

 

The catches at :25, 1:20 and 1:49 would indicate a pretty good set of hands. And yes, I know it's highlights but still.