why is idzik pegged as some sort of cheap, depth signing, ultra conservative?

[ylekram]

that's all I hear on any message boards nowadays. comments like " I would like player x in free agency, but it is too much for idzik to spend", or "I would like to trade up for player x in the draft, but idzik wont spend the picks". plus numerous other example proclaiming idzik some kind of cheap, thrify, bargain hunting ultra conservative.

  everything that I have seen idzik do last year was anything but conservative. handcuffed with the team cap problem last year, he spent what he could to fill as many holes as he could. traded away draft picks for players, and even traded the team best player for draft picks. hardly the conservative approach. and hardly a big enough sample size to determine the kind of gm idzik will be.

  I can understand coming to some sort of conclusion of idzik thru what seattle has done, but seattles body of work does not fit this mold either. seattle has traded players for draft picks,traded draft picks for players, signed expensive free agents, & drafted unorthodox players in the draft. that's not all they have done, but they have been risk takers.

  if that is what idzik is about,imo, he can leave new York as fast as he came in. scared money doesn't make money. he has the cap room and the draft picks to make this team a lot better. conservative will never win a championship. smart general managing will. building strickly thru the draft can take a long time to produce results. its something you lean on after your team is solid. also, building strickly thru trades and free agency is not the way to go, either(tanny)if there is a great costly player, either thru free agency or the draft, that you feel will better the team, you pull the trigger. if there are question marks, you don't.  a true gm utilizes all the cards in his deck

[jgb]

you're right that we don't have the book on idzik yet. trading revis doesn't tell us much either--he got what he could for a player that didn't seem to want to be here any longer. in fact, i'm shocked he got what he did from Tampa Bay, which was, according to media reports at the time, the only suitor.

[jack48]

and Revis was not exactly lights out for them, either.  making the trade even more successful

[FloridaJetsFan]

and Revis was not exactly lights out for them, either.  making the trade even more successful

 

Boy, there's an understatement!

[SenorGato]

That's how you know hes good. If he was known for his spending he would never be here-Woody needs that money.

[slats]

you're right that we don't have the book on idzik yet. trading revis doesn't tell us much either--he got what he could for a player that didn't seem to want to be here any longer. in fact, i'm shocked he got what he did from Tampa Bay, which was, according to media reports at the time, the only suitor.

+1

The Revis trade tells us absolutely nothing. More likely than not, he was told he'd be trading Revis when he interviewed for the job.

[BroadwayJoe12]

that's all I hear on any message boards nowadays. comments like " I would like player x in free agency, but it is too much for idzik to spend", or "I would like to trade up for player x in the draft, but idzik wont spend the picks". plus numerous other example proclaiming idzik some kind of cheap, thrify, bargain hunting ultra conservative.

  everything that I have seen idzik do last year was anything but conservative. handcuffed with the team cap problem last year, he spent what he could to fill as many holes as he could. traded away draft picks for players, and even traded the team best player for draft picks. hardly the conservative approach. and hardly a big enough sample size to determine the kind of gm idzik will be.

  I can understand coming to some sort of conclusion of idzik thru what seattle has done, but seattles body of work does not fit this mold either. seattle has traded players for draft picks,traded draft picks for players, signed expensive free agents, & drafted unorthodox players in the draft. that's not all they have done, but they have been risk takers.

  if that is what idzik is about,imo, he can leave new York as fast as he came in. scared money doesn't make money. he has the cap room and the draft picks to make this team a lot better. conservative will never win a championship. smart general managing will. building strickly thru the draft can take a long time to produce results. its something you lean on after your team is solid. also, building strickly thru trades and free agency is not the way to go, either(tanny)if there is a great costly player, either thru free agency or the draft, that you feel will better the team, you pull the trigger. if there are question marks, you don't.  a true gm utilizes all the cards in his deck

 

I don't think people are proclaiming Idzik is going to be strictly a dumpster-diver, but that he won't spend money foolishly just to spend it.  There's a notion that if you are flushed with cap-space, that you should be the highest spender in free agency, when history has shown us those winning in March doesn't translate to winning on the field.  I would imagine most expect Idzik to make moves this FA period, but moves that will better the team for his long-term vision.  e.g. Giving Mo Wilk an early extension does not help the team. Throwing $9+ million at Decker is not a smart investment.

 

If you'd like to make it analogous to financials, you want to get the best return on your investment. Paying big time FAs for what they've done as opposed to what they will do isn't smart, which is why I think Idzik will look to make moves outside of the top couple of FAs at each position. But hey, I could be wrong, he could go wild and sign Decker, Edelman, Orakpa and Byrd. Being a couple years away from being genuine SB contenders, that seems foolish, but who knows.

[Lil Bit Special]

why is idzik pegged as some sort of cheap, depth signing, ultra conservative?

 

 

because our posters are morons.  That isnt obvious to you?  

[brian101193]

that's all I hear on any message boards nowadays. comments like " I would like player x in free agency, but it is too much for idzik to spend", or "I would like to trade up for player x in the draft, but idzik wont spend the picks". plus numerous other example proclaiming idzik some kind of cheap, thrify, bargain hunting ultra conservative.

  everything that I have seen idzik do last year was anything but conservative. handcuffed with the team cap problem last year, he spent what he could to fill as many holes as he could. traded away draft picks for players, and even traded the team best player for draft picks. hardly the conservative approach. and hardly a big enough sample size to determine the kind of gm idzik will be.

  I can understand coming to some sort of conclusion of idzik thru what seattle has done, but seattles body of work does not fit this mold either. seattle has traded players for draft picks,traded draft picks for players, signed expensive free agents, & drafted unorthodox players in the draft. that's not all they have done, but they have been risk takers.

  if that is what idzik is about,imo, he can leave new York as fast as he came in. scared money doesn't make money. he has the cap room and the draft picks to make this team a lot better. conservative will never win a championship. smart general managing will. building strickly thru the draft can take a long time to produce results. its something you lean on after your team is solid. also, building strickly thru trades and free agency is not the way to go, either(tanny)if there is a great costly player, either thru free agency or the draft, that you feel will better the team, you pull the trigger. if there are question marks, you don't.  a true gm utilizes all the cards in his deck

 

I hear this a lot too but I dont feel like it is because he is cheap, i think he just has a lot of holes to fill. Remember when Atlanta traded their entire draft to get Julio Jones? He was supposed to be the final piece to a championship, when the Jets are in that position he can make that type of trade but not when we are still rebuilding.

[LAD_Brooklyn]

and Revis was not exactly lights out for them, either.  making the trade even more successful

Revis was actually great this season.

[Lizard King]

When he cuts your slated starter for next season, Sanchez, what then? 

[rillo]

Good, so I shouldn't see him paying 9mil a year for Decker. 

[Larz]

his first off season he intentionally signed players who had been waived the season before to get comp picks

 

some people saw what he was doing, others didn't

 

the jets went 8-8 in the purge year with hold the fort sacrificial lambs

 

not too shabby

[ylekram]

I hear this a lot too but I dont feel like it is because he is cheap, i think he just has a lot of holes to fill. Remember when Atlanta traded their entire draft to get Julio Jones? He was supposed to be the final piece to a championship, when the Jets are in that position he can make that type of trade but not when we are still rebuilding.

just to be clear, I am neither for nor against trading up in this draft or signing all the top tier free agents. I was just bringing up the fact that he seems to have developed a reputation somehow that isn't warranted. also, people seem to believe that doing so is a sure fire way to develop a losing team. nothing could be further from the truth if the gm does his job wisely. every situation warrants its own resolution. top performing players warrant top pay. nothing wrong with signing a player of need to big money as long as the player performs and his contract doesn't detract from other positions of need

[SenorGato]

his first off season he intentionally signed players who had been waived the season before to get comp picks

 

some people saw what he was doing, others didn't

 

the jets went 8-8 in the purge year with hold the fort sacrificial lambs

 

not too shabby

 

Another thing was that these guys had some upside to them. Mid-20's young veteran FAs for the most part except OG - a position that probably has a later prime than most others.

 

I liked what he did, and like you suggest - it worked. Jets got positive seasons from all but Goodson for low, low prices. 

 

Greg Hardy 2014! 

[JohnnyLV]

Another thing was that these guys had some upside to them. Mid-20's young veteran FAs for the most part except OG - a position that probably has a later prime than most others.

 

I liked what he did, and like you suggest - it worked. Jets got positive seasons from all but Goodson for low, low prices. 

 

Greg Hardy 2014! 

 

And Goodson looked explosive until he got injured. I think a lot of people want us to sign the Orakpos and Deckers and the lottery type free agents and I just don't see that from Idzik. I don't see him trading away the draft for Watkins when he can likely select Benjamin at 18. I truly believe Tannenbaum wanted headlines. I think Idzik will be measured and cautious and judicious with money. Not cheap

[bitonti]

quick answer cause he's the anti- Tanny

 

heres a question why would you believe he's anything else? what has he done to show he;'s gonna be spendy? 

 

there are some teams for example Green Bay who (almost) NEVER sign free agents. certainly not ones higher than vet min

 

we only have one offseason but Idzik seems to be of that ilk. 

[Il Mostro]

I am looking forward to Idzik's first full chapter with the Jets.  I have high hopes.  In advance, T0m, STFU.

[jack48]

Revis was actually great this season.

what was he, a 12 million dollar Cover-2 corner?  Come on.

[slats]

just to be clear, I am neither for nor against trading up in this draft or signing all the top tier free agents. I was just bringing up the fact that he seems to have developed a reputation somehow that isn't warranted. also, people seem to believe that doing so is a sure fire way to develop a losing team. nothing could be further from the truth if the gm does his job wisely. every situation warrants its own resolution. top performing players warrant top pay. nothing wrong with signing a player of need to big money as long as the player performs and his contract doesn't detract from other positions of need

  

Actually, we don't know yet if it's warranted or not. What I think is funny is that he's developed any reputation at all. That people say things all the time here like, "that really isn't an Idzik type move." Lol. We really have no idea what his philosophy is in a year where he has a lot to work with when so far we've only seen him operate on a shoe-string budget with an allegedly lame-duck head coach.

I think a lot of people are extrapolating from his time in Seattle that he'll run a team a lot like that, trading for a starting RB and drafting a starting QB outside of the first round, maybe... ? What they did obviously worked, so I think there's some safety there, but that would suggest a willingness to trade more picks for players, and sign relatively expensive free agents. We'll see. I don't expect him to go after the highest priced free agents - largely because I think that would be a dumb idea. They can beef up most of the weaker areas of the team by signing more modestly priced free agents than a couple very expensive ones. That philosophy in free agency also allows him the freedom to go Bitonti's best available freak route in the draft.

And Goodson looked explosive until he got injured. I think a lot of people want us to sign the Orakpos and Deckers and the lottery type free agents and I just don't see that from Idzik. I don't see him trading away the draft for Watkins when he can likely select Benjamin at 18. I truly believe Tannenbaum wanted headlines. I think Idzik will be measured and cautious and judicious with money. Not cheap

I truly believe Tannenbaum had absolutely no talent whatsoever when it comes to evaluating talent, and therefore went after the consensus top free agents because they were "safe." Ditto for his trading up policy, as he'd rather draft one player he was convinced to really believe in (like a Mark Sanchez or Shonn Greene) largely because he had absolutely no faith in his ability to find diamonds in the rough. He also became so convinced about those players that he had to make a move before someone else did. Getting completely chumped in the Nnamdi deal was classic (and fortunate). The guy just wanted to be successful, and had no clue about how to achieve that.

[Gastineau Lives]

 

heres a question why would you believe he's anything else? what has he done to show he;'s gonna be spendy? 

 

 

Why would you believe he's not? What has he done to show he's not "spendy"? Not go over the salary cap last year?

 

Not saying you're wrong, you may very well turn out to be right, but to think that you have a sufficient read on his proclivities at this point is wishful thinking at this point.

 

And since when is a GM either "spendy" or "cheap"? Is there no middle ground at all?

[bitonti]

Why would you believe he's not? What has he done to show he's not "spendy"?

 

because we've had 1 offseason and he spent nothing. I know people say its not enough evidence or whatever. But it's some evidence. They could have spent moderately believe it or not. They had some room on the cap after all the purges. They could have signed a real QB instead of David Garrard. They could have signed a real safety. But they chose not to spend anything. That's not conclusive but it's evidence. 

[jgb]

“It’s far better to buy a wonderful company at a fair price than a fair company at a wonderful price.” Warren Buffett

[Gastineau Lives]

because we've had 1 offseason and he spent nothing. I know people say its not enough evidence or whatever. But it's some evidence. They could have spent moderately believe it or not. They had some room on the cap after all the purges. They could have signed a real QB instead of David Garrard. They could have signed a real safety. But they chose not to spend anything. That's not conclusive but it's evidence. 

 

Well, I hope that he's going to be loosen his tie a little more this free agency period. He can now. He's got room. Last year there was little margin for error, especially for a first year GM.

 

I don't know who else he could have signed. He was already saddled with one over-priced QB, I don't blame him for not double-dipping. As for safeties, I don't even know who was available and what they eventually signed for, so you may be right.

 

All in all though, I think the 2012 Buccaneers are not a good example to follow. It's not even legal anymore is it?

[slats]

because we've had 1 offseason and he spent nothing. I know people say its not enough evidence or whatever. But it's some evidence. They could have spent moderately believe it or not. They had some room on the cap after all the purges. They could have signed a real QB instead of David Garrard. They could have signed a real safety. But they chose not to spend anything. That's not conclusive but it's evidence.

No it's not.

If he did any more spending last year, he would have an irresponsible label right now. They had no room to work, yet he still traded for a RB and signed another. There was also the question of whether or not he'd be retaining the head coach.

I don't know what he's going to do this offseason, but I'm confident it will be worlds apart from what he did last year. The two situations couldn't be much more different.

[ylekram]

quick answer cause he's the anti- Tanny

 

heres a question why would you believe he's anything else? what has he done to show he;'s gonna be spendy? 

 

there are some teams for example Green Bay who (almost) NEVER sign free agents. certainly not ones higher than vet min

 

we only have one offseason but Idzik seems to be of that ilk. 

this doesn't make any sense. you cant use 1 offseason of very limited funds, many holes to fill, player problems, and a coach on the hot seat to determine the ilk of the gm. the moves he made last season with such restrictions actually sways away from the ilk that you have suggested,imo. green bay has always had a solid foundation which allows them to operate the way they do. the jets, at this moment, don't have that foundation. you cant have a crappy team, have plenty of cap room, don't sign free agents, and build thru the draft. that takes time. idzik doesn't have 5 years to build this team into a contender. not in new York. I am certainly not suggesting that he be a carefree spendaholic, but he needs to make smart moves to better this team. there are lots of thrifty, conservative gm's in the nfl that don't have rings and never will.

[Gastineau Lives]

this doesn't make any sense. you cant use 1 offseason of very limited funds, many holes to fill, player problems, and a coach on the hot seat to determine the ilk of the gm. the moves he made last season with such restrictions actually sways away from the ilk that you have suggested,imo. green bay has always had a solid foundation which allows them to operate the way they do. the jets, at this moment, don't have that foundation. you cant have a crappy team, have plenty of cap room, don't sign free agents, and build thru the draft. that takes time. idzik doesn't have 5 years to build this team into a contender. not in new York. I am certainly not suggesting that he be a carefree spendaholic, but he needs to make smart moves to better this team. there are lots of thrifty, conservative gm's in the nfl that don't have rings and never will.

 

Why does everybody say things better than I do?

[bitonti]

this doesn't make any sense. you cant use 1 offseason of very limited funds, many holes to fill, player problems, and a coach on the hot seat to determine the ilk of the gm. the moves he made last season with such restrictions actually sways away from the ilk that you have suggested,imo. green bay has always had a solid foundation which allows them to operate the way they do. the jets, at this moment, don't have that foundation. you cant have a crappy team, have plenty of cap room, don't sign free agents, and build thru the draft. that takes time. idzik doesn't have 5 years to build this team into a contender. not in new York. I am certainly not suggesting that he be a carefree spendaholic, but he needs to make smart moves to better this team. there are lots of thrifty, conservative gm's in the nfl that don't have rings and never will.

 

how about the Slauson situation? instead of signing a solid starter and maintaining continuity he signed Peterman, Colon and drafted 3 mid rounders. And here we are looking for another guard. It's penny wise pound foolish. David Garrard was another example of taking a 100k bonus and flushing it down the toilet. Because he didn't want to spend on a Qb that had played a snap in the last 3 years. 

[Larz]

because we've had 1 offseason and he spent nothing. I know people say its not enough evidence or whatever. But it's some evidence. They could have spent moderately believe it or not. They had some room on the cap after all the purges. They could have signed a real QB instead of David Garrard. They could have signed a real safety. But they chose not to spend anything. That's not conclusive but it's evidence. 

 

 

hahaha

 

troll

[SenorGato]

how about the Slauson situation? 

 

Definitely not a thing, though good for him on his good season. 

[billo83]

Definitely not a thing, though good for him on his good season.

Yeah it's unreasonable to expect every single transaction to be a good one. Slauson was a bad decision but he looked good on the Greene and Keller decisions

My biggest complaint on him thus far is not having a quality QB and fielding JV receivers

[SenorGato]

Yeah it's unreasonable to expect every single transaction to be a good one. Slauson was a bad decision but he looked good on the Greene and Keller decisions

My biggest complaint on him thus far is not having a quality QB and fielding JV receivers

 

Geno has got this. 

[ozzieny]

+1

The Revis trade tells us absolutely nothing. More likely than not, he was told he'd be trading Revis when he interviewed for the job.

Bingo. Drafting Eugene is what does tell you about Idzik. No GM wanted any part of Eugene. Yet Idzik jumpes on this scrub in round 2 when he probably wouldn't have been drafted until round 4. I huge waste of a 2nd round pick that don't grow in trees. Then in round 3 he wastes another pick on Brian winters who was mauled the entire year.  We could have had Eddie Lacy in round  2 and in round 3 players like Mike Glennon (was light years better than Smith and on a worse team),  Keenan Allen, Jordan Reed, Kenny Stills.  Idzik's really only decent contribution to the draft was trading the 4th round pick for Ivory.  Richardson and Miliner were clearly Rex's picks. His influence was all over those first round picks. I don't believe Idzik had anything to do with them.     

[Gastineau Lives]

Bingo. Drafting Eugene is what does tell you about Idzik. No GM wanted any part of Eugene. Yet Idzik jumpes on this scrub in round 2 when he probably wouldn't have been drafted until round 4. I huge waste of a 2nd round pick that don't grow in trees. Then in round 3 he wastes another pick on Brian winters who was mauled the entire year.  We could have had Eddie Lacy in round  2 and in round 3 players like Mike Glennon (was light years better than Smith and on a worse team),  Keenan Allen, Jordan Reed, Kenny Stills.  Idzik's really only decent contribution to the draft was trading the 4th round pick for Ivory.  Richardson and Miliner were clearly Rex's picks. His influence was all over those first round picks. I don't believe Idzik had anything to do with them.     

Wow, so much information here. Let me get this straight:

 

 

Geno Smith's stats in the games Kerley played (includes Saints stats, the game Kerley got hurt)

194/326

59.5% Pass Completion %

12TDs/12INTs

5 Rushes / 27 Yards/Game

22 Points Per Game

7-4 Record

Here are Geno Smith's stats in the non-Kerley games

36/90

40% Pass Completion %

0TDs/9INTs

2 rushes/6 Yards Per Game

7.5 Points Per Game

0-4 Record

 

And Kerley is no Vincent Jackson or even Mike Williams. But Glennon was light years ahead of him and will always be, because Geno has a terminal case of sucking.

 

After trading for a RB with his 4th rounder, you think it would have been a good idea to spend a 2nd rounder on Lacy (who, by the way, had a much worse ypc avg than Ivory)

 

Kenny Stills runs one route. He's awesome.

 

Rex picked the good ones, Idzik picked the bad ones. Got it.

 

Idzik was the only GM to pass on Keenan Allen.

 

What have I missed?

[ozzieny]

Wow, so much information here. Let me get this straight:

 

 

Geno Smith's stats in the games Kerley played (includes Saints stats, the game Kerley got hurt)

194/326

59.5% Pass Completion %

12TDs/12INTs

5 Rushes / 27 Yards/Game

22 Points Per Game

7-4 Record

Here are Geno Smith's stats in the non-Kerley games

36/90

40% Pass Completion %

0TDs/9INTs

2 rushes/6 Yards Per Game

7.5 Points Per Game

0-4 Record

 

And Kerley is no Vincent Jackson or even Mike Williams. But Glennon was light years ahead of him and will always be, because Geno has a terminal case of sucking.

 

After trading for a RB with his 4th rounder, you think it would have been a good idea to spend a 2nd rounder on Lacy (who, by the way, had a much worse ypc avg than Ivory)

 

Kenny Stills runs one route. He's awesome.

 

Rex picked the good ones, Idzik picked the bad ones. Got it.

 

Idzik was the only GM to pass on Keenan Allen.

 

What have I missed?

Kerley is not the end of all. he is a decent slot receiver.  Any good qb works with what he has.  Also the Smith/Kerley stats are totally deceptive.  Kerley came back later in the year and played the last 4 games against 2 terribly inferior teams.  Against Miami and Carolina he did nothing. In fact, he had a mediocre year all around compared to the year he had in 2012. What you also missed is that Lacy was hurt at the beginning of the year. I would take Lacy over Ivory in a heartbeat. He is younger and damn near singlehandedly got the Pack into the playoffs after Rodgers got hurt.  And Kenny Stills ran 1 route huh?  that's ridiculous. And you couldn't trade our 2014 first round pick and throw Eugene in for Keenan Allen.  The Chargers would laugh.