Stonehands Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 This is an excerpted from this Twitter feed today about Bortles from his pro day: Was just ripping with @LanceZierlein re: QB Bortles. Next few tweets are copied/pasted from what I was writing... Improved base/balance. Looks like he's finding mechanically sound delivery that works for him. Anyone that knows QB pos and studied his tape knows that he is just a minor tweak to lower body mechanic away from putting it all together. He has identified issues that we all see on tape (weak base, failing to transfer weight, opening wide to left, falling off throws) Which is step 1. Step 2 is fixing the problem - and making sure it's natural (so it can be sustainable). Based on what I saw yesterday, he's well on his way towards fixing. And it is coming very naturally to him. As result, he's generating more power from lower body to improve ball velocity. And in long run will have more consistent accuracy. Now- I understand it's just a pro day, so I'm keeping everything in perspective. He's not Andrew Luck- not by a long shot. He is never going to have elite arm strength and... he's always going to have to work hard on mechanics to keep ball placement at a high enough level.But he has above avg arm and accuracy. He has outstanding pocket presence. He has a strong mental makeup, and he has "it" factor. Long-short: I think he grades out (for me) just slightly behind Tannehill - but remember I was a bit higher on Tannehill than most (mid-1st rd grade) I think Bortles is worth top 10 pick but would have hard time taking him over the elite guys: Clowney, Robinson, Mack, Watkins Sorry for novel. The end! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klecko73isGod Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 Todd McShay on Jamarcus Russell: "Best pro-day workout I've ever seen." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HessStation Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 Todd McShay on Jamarcus Russell: "Best pro-day workout I've ever seen." Every scout that was at Russell's pro day...."Best pro-day I've ever seen." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyCarl40 Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 Todd McShay on Jamarcus Russell: "Best pro-day workout I've ever seen." Pro Days and the Combine might be the worst thing to happen to the draft. Draft for Sunday based on what you see on Saturdays, period. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Integrity28 Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 Todd McShay: "lots of words, lots of words, lots of words, rationalizing why I suddenly agree with everyone else's point of view" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyCarl40 Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 Todd McShay: "lots of words, lots of words, lots of words, rationalizing why I suddenly agree with everyone else's point of view" Still like him better than Mel Kiper Clueless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbatesman Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 Pro Days and the Combine might be the worst thing to happen to the draft. Draft for Sunday based on what you see on Saturdays, period. Pro days, yes. Combine, absolutely not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyCarl40 Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 Pro days, yes. Combine, absolutely not. Wasn't the combine one of the biggest reasons they drafted Gholston? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HessStation Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 Pro Days and the Combine might be the worst thing to happen to the draft. Draft for Sunday based on what you see on Saturdays, period. I think it's ridiculous how fans want to rip on anything that isn't 100% fool proof. sh*t happens. It's a big process, it all counts, it's all important. It's a huge weighted scale with many different variable to consider. It's why it's fun. It's not a exact science. To say nothing else matters except game tape is as short sighted as completely dismissing a combine or pro day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klecko73isGod Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 Still like him better than Mel Kiper Clueless. The problem with Todd McShay is that he is a guy who actually aspired to be Mel Kiper. Think about that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RSJ Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 I would love Bortles to fall to the Jets. Probably won't happen - but could. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbatesman Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 Wasn't the combine one of the biggest reasons they drafted Gholston? If it was, they were looking at the wrong numbers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beaver Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 I would love Bortles to fall to the Jets. Probably won't happen - but could. Yes....biggest thing for me is he ledUCF to a 12-1 record, BCS bowl win, and almost went undefeated (barely losing to south carolina 28-25) without a stellar supporting cast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nycdan Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 I would love Bortles to fall to the Jets. Probably won't happen - but could. I'd be totally supportive of that pick if it happened. Not holding my breath. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T0mShane Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 I would love Bortles to fall to the Jets. Probably won't happen - but could. If he gets past the Titans at 11, it's a free fall to 18. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nycdan Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 If it was, they were looking at the wrong numbers. Gholston's combine numbers were very impressive. Unfortunately he was Mike Mamula without the NFL sacks (Mamula actually had a few decent years). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stonehands Posted March 20, 2014 Author Share Posted March 20, 2014 Yes....biggest thing for me is he ledUCF to a 12-1 record, BCS bowl win, and almost went undefeated (barely losing to south carolina 28-25) without a stellar supporting cast. That's as good a reason as any. It is such a crap shoot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BroadwayJoe12 Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 This right here should be the number one reason you stop taking anything these draftniks say for gospel, and further show just how far removed from real scouts they are. McShay and half the other draftniks didn't even have Bortles on their radar of players to watch at the beginning of the season, yet all of a sudden he's the #1 overall player? Give me a f*cking break. This is why you see the sh*theels start pumping guys like Bortles and Garopallo after all-star games and combines, and all of a sudden the draft community thinks that they're "rising." They aren't rising, they aren't new to the actual scouting community, it's just that they haven't been around real NFL personnel enough to be clued into who the real prospects are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BroadwayJoe12 Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 Wasn't the combine one of the biggest reasons they drafted Gholston? If he didn't have a very productive career in one of the major conferences, the combine wouldn't have gotten him up to a top 10 pick. It wasn't Gholston's measurables or productivity that caused him to be a bust, it was the fact that he didn't care about football. He was just a juiced out physical specimen that happened to be very good at football at the collegiate level, but just didn't care enough to make it in the NFL. If he had the drive like Clay Matthews, this wouldn't be an issue. It's a good reason why one of Idzik's biggest mantras is whether the guys love to play football or not. The hate the combine gets is ridiculous. Calvin Johnson was a beast in college, but if he runs a 4.5 with a 32" vert as opposed to running 4.3 forty, with a 42" vert and 11'7" broad jump, he doesn't go top 5. As has been mentioned by many GMs, scouts and coaches, the combine helps to reaffirm their feelings on a player or it causes them to go back and watch the tape to see why a guy ran .2 seconds faster or slower than expected. To say it's useless is just wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Lonelyhearts Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 Gholston's legendary combine is such a sham. He ran 4.65. Big deal. Coples ran 4.69 and he's 20 pounds heavier and not fast. Also the personality test they administer supposedly pegged Gholston as an off the charts flake and something of a dimwit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbatesman Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 Gholston's combine numbers were very impressive. Unfortunately he was Mike Mamula without the NFL sacks (Mamula actually had a few decent years). Gholston's bench press and 40 time were very impressive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Lonelyhearts Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 Gholston's bench press and 40 time were very impressive. Bench press irrelevant (but you knew that), 40 see above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbatesman Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 Bench press irrelevant (but you knew that), 40 see above. I'm doing my best, ok. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BroadwayJoe12 Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 Gholston's legendary combine is such a sham. He ran 4.65. Big deal. Coples ran 4.69 and he's 20 pounds heavier and not fast. Also the personality test they administer supposedly pegged Gholston as an off the charts flake and something of a dimwit. How is it a sham? He measured in at 6'3 266 lbs and ran a 4.65 (4.58 pro-day), but with a 1.53 10-yard split. At the time, everyone was comparing all potential OLBs to Shawne Merriman and Demarcus Ware, who put up similar numbers. Merriman was 6'5" 270 and ran a 4.64 at his proday and Ware ran 4.56 with only a 1.62 10-yard split at 15 lbs lighter than Gholston. His numbers were on par with the elite OLBs. But as you said, it was his attitude about football that should have dropped him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
77DRAFT Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 Phil Simms knows more about what it takes to be an NFL qb than anyone, and he likes Geno a lot more than Blake or anyone else in the draft, speaks volumes about not only Geno, but about this draft, it's not a qb draft. ztat wise because he's only a soph, Johnny football is the guy, if I didn't have a qb, I'd grab him, at least he's got some magic, and a personality, I think texas has to take him, might as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nycdan Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 Phil Simms knows more about what it takes to be an NFL qb than anyone, and he likes Geno a lot more than Blake or anyone else in the draft, speaks volumes about not only Geno, but about this draft, it's not a qb draft. ztat wise because he's only a soph, Johnny football is the guy, if I didn't have a qb, I'd grab him, at least he's got some magic, and a personality, I think texas has to take him, might as well. And yet Simms is very negative on Manziel. Go figure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#27TheDominator Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 How is it a sham? He measured in at 6'3 266 lbs and ran a 4.65 (4.58 pro-day), but with a 1.53 10-yard split. At the time, everyone was comparing all potential OLBs to Shawne Merriman and Demarcus Ware, who put up similar numbers. Merriman was 6'5" 270 and ran a 4.64 at his proday and Ware ran 4.56 with only a 1.62 10-yard split at 15 lbs lighter than Gholston. His numbers were on par with the elite OLBs. But as you said, it was his attitude about football that should have dropped him. It is a sham because Gholston's combine wasn't so impressive. It just backed up what everybody thought about him athletically. It certainly did not skyrocket him up anybody's board. This wasn't Bryan Thomas leapfrogging up God know's how many rounds. IIRC Gholston held/holds some pass rush/tackle for loss records for Ohio State/Big Ten. After the fact all the web board draft gurus want to hang on to the fact that they read that he takes plays off and football isn't his first love when the guy was a consensus top 6 pick from before the end of his season. FWIW, Derrick Harvey is on the street too. he took over "Leo" duties in 2006. He garnered All-Big Ten Conference second-team honors, as he ranked fourth in the league with 15 stops for losses of 86 yards and was fifth in the Big Ten with 8.5 sacks. He added a quarterback pressure with two pass breakups and an interception. He also finished sixth on the squad with 49 tackles (21 solo). In 2007, Gholston earned All-American recognition and was a finalist for the Ted Hendricks Award, given to the nation's top defensive end. He posted 37 tackles (25 solo) and was a terror in the backfield, ranking eighth in the nation with 15.5 stops behind the line of scrimmage and second nationally with 14 sacks. He also scooped up a fumble and returned it for a 25-yard touchdown. In 34 games at Ohio State, Gholston started 25 times. He registered 87 tackles (47 solo) with 22.5 sacks for minus-184 yards and 30.5 stops for losses of 199 yards. He had two pass deflections and an eight-yard interception return, as he also recovered a fumble that he returned 25 yards for a touchdown http://www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/vernon-gholston?id=756 If only he had "some tape from Saturday to watch" Give me a ******* break. The guy was a bust, it's certainly not cause he ran a fast 40. FWIW, Mamula had 30+ sacks and a bunch of injuries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Villain The Foe Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 Pro Days and the Combine might be the worst thing to happen to the draft. Draft for Sunday based on what you see on Saturdays, period. Yup, but dont let Dom hear you say that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#27TheDominator Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 Yup, but dont let Dom hear you say that. He can say it all he wants. You guys are welcome to your incorrect opinions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BroadwayJoe12 Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 It is a sham because Gholston's combine wasn't so impressive. It just backed up what everybody thought about him athletically. It certainly did not skyrocket him up anybody's board. This wasn't Bryan Thomas leapfrogging up God know's how many rounds. IIRC Gholston held/holds some pass rush/tackle for loss records for Ohio State/Big Ten. After the fact all the web board draft gurus want to hang on to the fact that they read that he takes plays off and football isn't his first love when the guy was a consensus top 6 pick from before the end of his season. FWIW, Derrick Harvey is on the street too. http://www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/vernon-gholston?id=756 If only he had "some tape from Saturday to watch" Give me a ******* break. The guy was a bust, it's certainly not cause he ran a fast 40. FWIW, Mamula had 30+ sacks and a bunch of injuries. It's a sham from the point of view that it was a monster day, which it wasn't. I was more arguing that it wasn't a poor day as it seemed that's where the conversation was heading. He had a great 10-yard split, good 40 yard time and adequate drills compared to Merriman and Ware, who were the icons everyone was compared to. I agree, as I have said about the combine for years now, all it did was solidify their opinions on him, which were based off of their film-viewing. It didn't seem like he really wanted to be in the NFL, but that's not something you can discern from the college game. I watched a lot of his games that year and he was always in the backfield and manhandling the oline. That's something that Tanny and the scouts had to figure out on their own. I still stand by it that he didn't fail because he lacked any physical ability, just that I don't particularly think he cared to be great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CotcheryifyouCan Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 no way he falls to us ( i dont want him anyways) the real question is there is a good chance Bridgewater falls and if he gets passed minny and then tenn i think hes still on the board. Do we take him? ( I still think hes the best qb coming out). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BroadwayJoe12 Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 Yup, but dont let Dom hear you say that. Dude, every GM, offensive and defensive coordinator always state that the combine is important as it either reaffirms what they believe a player to be or makes them go back and look at the games some more. No one is saying it's the end-all be-all, but it is a very valuable evaluation tool. Our own MM had a 5 minute piece on just how important it is. You can disagree all you want, but you're flat out disagreeing with what guys like MM have stated verbatim on record. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Villain The Foe Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 He can say it all he wants. You guys are welcome to your incorrect opinions. I appreciate that sir. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Villain The Foe Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 no way he falls to us ( i dont want him anyways) the real question is there is a good chance Bridgewater falls and if he gets passed minny and then tenn i think hes still on the board. Do we take him? ( I still think hes the best qb coming out). Yes you do. I like Geno, but Bridgewater is worth the 18th pick for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
77DRAFT Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 And yet Simms is very negative on Manziel. Go figure. Texas is between a rock and hard place despite no. 1 pick. Simms probably would't take a qb here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.