Which draft would you choose?

[32EBoozer]

Right. It doesn't matter at all that first round edge rushers who flunk the athletic benchmarks bust three times as often as the ones who pass. People who take the sucker end of bets all think they're smart enough to lay that spot. Guess what.

If you're looking for benchmarks, root for Dion Jordan and Mingo... 1 trick ponies.

 

Fowler will be a great pro!

 

I'm beginning to see what Paradis was talking about with you.

[bealeb319]

If you're looking for benchmarks, root for Dion Jordan and Mingo... 1 trick ponies.

 

Fowler will be a great pro!

 

I'm beginning to see what Paradis was talking about with you.

 

I still have faith that Mingo is going to turn out pretty good.

[Beerfish]

Thought about listing the 5 picks leading up to ours, but it doesn't matter. This is an exercise to see what matters most to you;

 

OPTION #1:

1 - Fowler (OLB/DE)

2 - DJ Humphries (OT)

3 - T. Lockett (WR)

4 - D. Cobb (RB)

7 - T. Plummer (ILB)  & T. Smith (CB)

OPTION #2:

1 - Cooper (WR)

2 - E. Harold (OLB)

3 - B. Petty (QB)

4 - T. Jones (ILB)

7 - T. Williams (NT) & T. Rawls (RB)

OPTION #3:

1 - M. Mariota (QB)

2 - Du. Johnson (RB)

3 - P. Lawson (ILB)

4 - Z. Smith (OLB)

7 - C. Worth (WR) & T. Williams (NT)

OPTION #4

1 - S. Ray (DE/OLB)

2 - DGB (WR)

3 - Da. Johnson (RB)

4 - B. Bridge (QB). 

7 - B. McClain (CB) & J. Brown (OT)

Tough decisions, I voted 2 but each of the drafts has pluses and minuses imo.

 

Option 1:

 

I love locket in the 3rd and Cobb in the 4th.  Don't mind Humphries in the 2nd, still not 100% sure on Fowler as far as best olb goes.

 

Option 2:

 

I love the 1st two picks, Cooper and Harold, like the Jones pick in the 4th, can do without Petty in the 3rd but could live with it.

 

Option 3:

 

I assume that the 3rd rounder is supposed to be Paul Dawson, not Lawson?  I like Dawson and Zadarius Smith, don't like Duke Johnson in the 2nd at all.  Just don't think Mariota is 'the guy'.

 

Option 4:

 

I would be okay with Ray at one, I have a bad feeling about DGB, I really do think he is the 2nd coming of Josh Gordon, a massive talent that will drive you crazy with off field stuff.  Don't' like David Johnson in the 3rd, will be better RB's there in my opinion.  Bridge?  Not in the 4th.

[Miss Lonelyhearts]

If you're looking for benchmarks, root for Dion Jordan and Mingo... 1 trick ponies.

Fowler will be a great pro!

I'm beginning to see what Paradis was talking about with you.

Jordan and Mingo are, like Gholston, guys whose relevant measurements don't match up with the adjectives used to describe their combine performances. Two more reasons not to try to buck the numbers.

[Matt39]

Jordan and Mingo are, like Gholston, guys whose relevant measurements don't match up with the adjectives used to describe their combine performances. Two more reasons not to try to buck the numbers.

And seemingly teams fall for it every year. Hopefully Maccagnan knows how important the broad, vert and 3 cone are for pass rushers.

[Miss Lonelyhearts]

And seemingly teams fall for it every year. Hopefully Maccagnan knows how important the broad, vert and 3 cone are for pass rushers.

Texans and Cardinals both have solid recent history there. Kareem Martin and Acho, Clowney, Watt, Barwin, Mario.

[BroadwayJets]

I would love #1 but Lockett ruins it for me. I wouldn't choose any of these mainly because of the mid-round picks. 

[Matt39]

Texans and Cardinals both have solid recent history there. Kareem Martin and Acho, Clowney, Watt, Barwin, Mario.

Well that's relieving.

[derp]

 I'm sorry, but these guys are the embodiment of production. You don't want them for the Jets?? That's cool, but don't take away from what these young men accomplished!

 

I'd take any of these guys, but at #6 I prefer Fowler (as does Mayock ) as the top edge rusher.

 

Not what I said at all, no need to put words in my mouth. But from a pass rushing standpoint 8.5, 7.5, and 7 sacks do not represent outstanding production. It's okay. You can put the bar wherever you want to put it for what you consider "productive" - I'd say double digits for a college guy would represent a productive pass rusher in the context of a potential high draft pick. Calling those three the embodiment of production is a major stretch in my opinion.

 

Fowler and Harold have less career sacks in three seasons than than Kikaha had in a season. Not that sacks are the be all end all, but again I don't think those guys were anything special from a pass rushing production standpoint in college. 

 

And you completely missed the point of that statement, which is that Fowler and to a lesser extent Dupree get play at 6 whereas Harold is a potential option at #37. I get that they're all different players and that there's more to getting drafted than production and physical profile - but the gap between them seems wider than it should be. Maybe there's off-field stuff I'm not aware of with Harold or something.

[Paradis]

Tough decisions, I voted 2 but each of the drafts has pluses and minuses imo.

 

Option 1:

 

I love locket in the 3rd and Cobb in the 4th.  Don't mind Humphries in the 2nd, still not 100% sure on Fowler as far as best olb goes.

 

Option 2:

 

I love the 1st two picks, Cooper and Harold, like the Jones pick in the 4th, can do without Petty in the 3rd but could live with it.

 

Option 3:

 

I assume that the 3rd rounder is supposed to be Paul Dawson, not Lawson?  I like Dawson and Zadarius Smith, don't like Duke Johnson in the 2nd at all.  Just don't think Mariota is 'the guy'.

 

Option 4:

 

I would be okay with Ray at one, I have a bad feeling about DGB, I really do think he is the 2nd coming of Josh Gordon, a massive talent that will drive you crazy with off field stuff.  Don't' like David Johnson in the 3rd, will be better RB's there in my opinion.  Bridge?  Not in the 4th.

 

Thanks for the feeback, most here are just consumed with arguing about Fowler....

 

 

I personally would take the ceiling draft (option#4) but the responsible GM in me would look hard at #1, tho I'm not sold on spending my 1st on a "good football guy"... (Petty also irks me with #2)

 

I can't believe how many people voted for option #3... Mariota & Duke johnson? puke.

[Paradis]

I went Option #1

 

You get a starting OLB who's big enough to set the edge

 

A future replacement for D'Brick ... as a matter of fact that is who he gets compared to.

 

An absolute speed demon to take the top off a defense(DJax type player)

 

Cobb will be an adequate back. Punishing 1 cut runner who lacks breakaway speed. This would be the pick I would change to make this a great draft.

 

I think you're really underselling Cobb... 2-3 years from now, i think he stands a good chance at being the most productive back in this draft class outside of the obvious 2. 

[prime21]

I went Option #1

 

You get a starting OLB who's big enough to set the edge

 

A future replacement for D'Brick ... as a matter of fact that is who he gets compared to.

 

An absolute speed demon to take the top off a defense(DJax type player)

 

Cobb will be an adequate back. Punishing 1 cut runner who lacks breakaway speed. This would be the pick I would change to make this a great draft.

 

#1 for me for the same reasons.

[Obrien2Toon]

Love the 2,3 rounds for option 3

I'll go 3-1-4-2. They're all good.

Petty kills the 2nd one, and don't really like Ray. I don't think that great first step is going to overcome his size and speed shortcomings. Just has the look of an average player

[dbatesman]

Which option has the guys with the highest motor? Asking for a friend.

[CTM]

I didn't even bother looking past the first-rounders, and 2 is still the only sane option.

 

^^

[32EBoozer]

 

 

Jordan and Mingo are, like Gholston, guys whose relevant measurements don't match up with the adjectives used to describe their combine performances. Two more reasons not to try to buck the numbers.

2003 – OLB Terrell Suggs

Suggs’ 40-yard dash at the combine gave some talent evaluators pause. He ran it in the dragging 4.8-second range. He had an average vertical jump (33 inches) and just 19 bench press reps of 225 pounds. The average is around 25 for defensive linemen. Suggs slid a little bit in the draft and was scooped up by the Ravens at pick No. 10. His speed hasn’t proven to be a problem.

 

Fowler reminds me of a faster, more dynamic Suggs

[peebag]

Geno Smith, Ryan Fitzpatrick and Matt Simms.

 

 

Option 3 please!

[Shadetree]

2003 – OLB Terrell Suggs

Suggs’ 40-yard dash at the combine gave some talent evaluators pause. He ran it in the dragging 4.8-second range. He had an average vertical jump (33 inches) and just 19 bench press reps of 225 pounds. The average is around 25 for defensive linemen. Suggs slid a little bit in the draft and was scooped up by the Ravens at pick No. 10. His speed hasn’t proven to be a problem.

Fowler reminds me of a faster, more dynamic Suggs

Phew...that's what I was hoping to see..I'm back on fowler band wagon...tune in for flip flop tomorrow!! Haha..

With that said...Beasley is really intriguing me. Got any bullets for Beasley, Boozer? I have a flip flop to consider.

Amazing the inexact science the draft is.

[32EBoozer]

This compares Fowler to probably the premier rush OLB in the NFL. Fowler is carrying 20 extra  lbs.

 

I'm pleased with how he stacks up.... fancy metrics aside.

Fowler:

 

40 Yard Dash: 4.60 seconds
20 Yard Dash: 2.69 seconds
10 Yard Dash: 1.59 seconds
Bench Press: 19 reps (225 lb)
Wonderlic: (N/A) (0-50)


Vertical Leap: 32.5 inches
Broad Jump: 112 inches
20 Yd Shuttle: 4.32 seconds
Three Cone: 7.40 seconds
60 Yd Shuttle: (N/A) seconds

Clay Matthews

40 Yard Dash: 4.62 seconds
20 Yard Dash: 2.68 seconds
10 Yard Dash: 1.49 seconds
Bench Press: 23 reps (225 lb)
Wonderlic: 27 (0-50)


Vertical Leap: 35.5 inches
Broad Jump: 121 inches
20 Yd Shuttle: 4.18 seconds
Three Cone: 6.90 seconds
60 Yd Shuttle: (N/A) seconds

[Shadetree]

Dammit, Boozer, keep that on the down low!!!! The jags might see !!! Haha.. Back on the fowler bandwagon...unless, of course, you have something good on Beasley

[HessStation]

Parcell's liked "football players" so do I.

Explosion numbers only matter in the bedroom.   

 

Actually  Parcell's is the guy that coined the phrase about taking the elite athlete. I can't remember what he said, but it was more or less, you take the anomaly...to butcher paraphrase. 

 

...I'm pretty sure.

[HessStation]

This compares Fowler to probably the premier rush OLB in the NFL. Fowler is carrying 20 extra  lbs.

 

I'm pleased with how he stacks up.... fancy metrics aside.

Fowler:

 

40 Yard Dash: 4.60 seconds

20 Yard Dash: 2.69 seconds

10 Yard Dash: 1.59 seconds

Bench Press: 19 reps (225 lb)

Wonderlic: (N/A) (0-50)

Vertical Leap: 32.5 inches

Broad Jump: 112 inches

20 Yd Shuttle: 4.32 seconds

Three Cone: 7.40 seconds

60 Yd Shuttle: (N/A) seconds

Clay Matthews

40 Yard Dash: 4.62 seconds

20 Yard Dash: 2.68 seconds

10 Yard Dash: 1.49 seconds

Bench Press: 23 reps (225 lb)

Wonderlic: 27 (0-50)

Vertical Leap: 35.5 inches

Broad Jump: 121 inches

20 Yd Shuttle: 4.18 seconds

Three Cone: 6.90 seconds

60 Yd Shuttle: (N/A) seconds

 

I LOVE Folwer...but his jumps are scary. (scary bad)

[32EBoozer]

I LOVE Folwer...but his jumps are scary. (scary bad)

Is it scary bad... or are Matthews Scary good?

[32EBoozer]

Actually  Parcell's is the guy that coined the phrase about taking the elite athlete. I can't remember what he said, but it was more or less, you take the anomaly...to butcher paraphrase. 

 

...I'm pretty sure.

The thing I really look for in this business is there are guys who are into football and there are guys who are in the profession for other reasons.

Bill Parcells

 

I'll see what else I can find pertaining to football players

 

 

BILL PARCELLS QUOTES

I like linebackers. I collect 'em. You can't have too many good ones.

Read more at http://www.notable-quotes.com/p/parcells_bill.html#ExYQ147ttGpY5sOk.99

[32EBoozer]

Dammit, Boozer, keep that on the down low!!!! The jags might see !!! Haha.. Back on the fowler bandwagon...unless, of course, you have something good on Beasley

 You're going to love this comparison of players!

Both Mayock and Cosell (my top 2 media football experts) have Fowler as the #1 OLB prospect.

Take it for what it's worth.

 

 http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-shutdown-corner/greg-cosell-s-draft-preview--dante-fowler-should-be-titans--pick-at-no--2-201817261.html

 

Greg Cosell's draft preview: Dante Fowler should be Titans' pick at No. 2

By Greg Cosell April 18, 2015 4:18 PM Shutdown Corner

 

 

Everyone has an opinion on what the Tennessee Titans should do with the second pick. Should they go with a quarterback? Or take USC defensive lineman Leonard Williams?

I'd have a different answer if I was making that pick for the Titans. I'd take Florida outside linebacker/defensive end Dante Fowler. I think Fowler is the best defensive prospect in the draft.

When I watch film of college prospects, I like to watch a couple games on a prospect, move onto other players, and a couple weeks later watch a couple more of that prospect. I don't want my first impression to carry through six or seven games in a row on a player. I'm glad I took that approach with Fowler.

Early on, I saw a few flaws. I saw a troubling tendency when he was at defensive end to play too high at the point of attack and get moved by tackles and tight ends. He was engulfed by big tackles. I wondered if he had the size and girth to play defensive end.

The more I watched, the more I liked of Fowler, to the point where I'd take him over any other defensive player in the draft. Fowler has natural athleticism and flexibility, good balance, lateral quickness with explosion, closing burst and speed – all the traits you look for in an NFL pass rusher.

He's still a projection as a pass rusher (remember, all college players are projects) but he is just scratching the surface of what he can become. But he flashed explosive traits with a quick first step and excellent closing speed; Fowler has a chance to be a multi-dimensional pass rusher who can win with quickness, power and speed. He was even deployed at times as a coverage defender, and he had the athleticism and natural movement to do that effectively. He's really a plus athlete with quick feet and fluid athleticism, and a competitive playing personality.

There are still a few questions. I don't think he can transition to an NFL defensive end; he's not big enough to even match up to tight ends in the run game. Can Fowler transition to the NFL as a weak-side linebacker in a 4-3? Can he develop into a run-and-hit linebacker? I think his best transition position will likely be 3-4 outside linebacker. Rushing the quarterback is his best skill and that’s always a priority in the NFL. I see similarities to Green Bay Packers outside linebacker Clay Matthews and Kansas City Chiefs outside linebacker Justin Houston when they were coming out of college.

There are a ton of tools to work with when it comes to Fowler. He has a lot of athletic and explosive traits to work with, He has a chance to be a high level NFL pass rusher – my sense is he will be a better pass rusher in the NFL than he was in college.

Here is a look at some of the other edge defenders in this draft (and there are many good ones):

Shane Ray, Missouri

Ray mostly played defensive end at Missouri, and he has the natural explosion off the ball you look for in a pass rusher. He won a number of times because he was first off the snap. He showed the initial burst to beat the outside shoulder of the offensive tackle and the body flexibility to bend the edge and close with speed. Ray is very strong and powerful for his size; he plays a violent, explosive game with tremendous passion. He is competitive with a bit of nasty edge, the kind of player that doesn’t accept getting beat.

Even though he was 245 pounds he also worked as a "3 technique" tackle in passing situations and was effective in that role too. Against guards he used excellent hand usage and technique and was often too fast for them. Still, his best NFL position is probably 3-4 outside linebacker. If he ends up at 4-3 end, the best comparison for a player his size might be the Indianapolis Colts' Robert Mathis.

 

 

 

Randy Gregory, Nebraska

Gregory can do a little of everything because he's so athletic. His excellent movement flexibility, loose and fluid hips reminds me of a basketball player. He also has point of attack strength to stalemate and set the edge in the run game. Gregory is a high-level athlete who can rush the quarterback or play in coverage.

To me, he's an even better prospect than Jadeveon Clowney, who went with the first pick last year. He's a better athlete with more flexibility and explosive movement traits as an edge player. I think he best projects as a 3-4 outside linebacker in a base defense, but he can align in a three-point stance at defensive end in sub packages and rush the quarterback. Gregory will need to get stronger but has the body type to gain weight without losing his outstanding athletic traits.

 

 

 

Vic Beasley, Clemson

Beasley can't play defensive end in a 4-3. He just doesn't have the size for it and would not hold up. Beasley isn't a point of attack player. He needs space to operate most effectively; the more room he has off the ball the more he can utilize his quickness and speed.

Beasley does have explosive closing speed as a pass rusher, and an outstanding short area acceleration. he also has a nice array of pass-rush moves for a young player. But this point he's a quickness/speed/explosion pass rusher, because he does not have the body frame or strength yet to be a speed-to-power rusher. The question is can Beasley develop into a Von Miller type of player? That comparison may be valid.

 

 

 

Alvin "Bud" Dupree, Kentucky

I really like Dupree. The more I watched him, the more I really liked his traits as a player and a pass rusher.

Dupree just moves differently than most guys. He's a really good athlete. Athletically a good comparison might be Jamie Collins of the New England Patriots, and I don't take that lightly because I think Collins is an exceptional athlete. Dupree is a little different than most of the players on this list because he wasn't a designated pass rusher for Kentucky. He was utilized often in coverage, even in sub packages. He was asked to fill multiple roles with a lot of different responsibilities in Kentucky's defense. Yet, if you line up Dupree and tell him to rush the quarterback, I sense he could turn into a good NFL pass rusher.

Dupree must play stronger to make an immediate impact in the NFL, as he did not play to his size and explosiveness consistently. And at this point no real moves as a pass rusher. But he showed the natural athletic movement and off-the-ball burst to develop into a quality pass rusher in the NFL, if a team wants to use him in that way.

 

 

 

Eli Harold, Virginia

My initial sense is Harold not quick enough to be an edge pass rusher and not strong enough to be a power rusher. He's not a true bend-the-edge pass rusher. He did not show the flexibility to get low and skim the edge. Also, at this point he is not strong at the point of attack in the run game; he did not show ability to stalemate or defeat blocks.

How does Harold project with coaching, NFL training and experience as an edge pass rusher? That will determine his draft position. What is his upside? I do not believe he should be a first day choice in the NFL draft. He's a significant projection as a pass rusher. At this point I see similarities to Erik Walden of the Colts, a base 3-4 outside linebacker who also plays in the nickel as edge rusher, but isn't a great rusher.

 

[HessStation]

Is it scary bad... or are Matthews Scary good?

 

Matthews were good but not elite. 40 or above vert = scary good. I'm thinking...

[JetsFanInDenver]

First of all i would choose the draft that happens in the middle to third week of April. This wait till May is too long.

 

And that too I would choose a draft that takes place in New York. Because that's where it belongs.

[Matt39]

2003 – OLB Terrell Suggs

Suggs’ 40-yard dash at the combine gave some talent evaluators pause. He ran it in the dragging 4.8-second range. He had an average vertical jump (33 inches) and just 19 bench press reps of 225 pounds. The average is around 25 for defensive linemen. Suggs slid a little bit in the draft and was scooped up by the Ravens at pick No. 10. His speed hasn’t proven to be a problem.

Fowler reminds me of a faster, more dynamic Suggs

HGH?

[ChuckkieB]

Option # 2.  Am I the only one who likes Bryce Petty?

[HessStation]

 

The thing I really look for in this business is there are guys who are into football and there are guys who are in the profession for other reasons.

Bill Parcells

 

I'll see what else I can find pertaining to football players

 

 

BILL PARCELLS QUOTES

I like linebackers. I collect 'em. You can't have too many good ones.

Read more at http://www.notable-quotes.com/p/parcells_bill.html#ExYQ147ttGpY5sOk.99

 

 

I think Parcells was the guy who talked about taking the once in a lifetime freak when there or something too. I don't care enough to waste time looking for it Boozer. Hope you understand. I'm cool with the premise of taking Fowler anyway. But he's an elite football player, not an elite athlete. So there's a little risk there imo, at 6. I'm not sure he'll be a double digit sack guy too, which would piss people off.

[peekskill68]

If Mariota is sitting there at 6 the pressure is going to be intense for Maccags to take him.  A 1st year GM who passes over a potential franchise QB to take an OLB or a guard or even a trade back would have to have a huge set of onions...  He would be "Sapped" or "Marinoed" in Jets history forever if he got that one wrong...

[HessStation]

Also...as much as I'd like to, not sure comparing Fowler to Suggs is fair either....just bc Suggs had pedestrian paper numbers. Suggs also had like 24 sacks in a season and like 45 college career or something stupid like that. 

[Paradis]

It's amazing how many people have talked themselves out of Shane Ray based on nothing more than speculation about his fit... watch the guy's tape. He murders everyone, everywhere. It's Teddy Bridgewater all over again.

 

 

 

(gato stay out of this)

[32EBoozer]

If Mariota is sitting there at 6 the pressure is going to be intense for Maccags to take him.  A 1st year GM who passes over a potential franchise QB to take an OLB or a guard or even a trade back would have to have a huge set of onions...  He would be "Sapped" or "Marinoed" in Jets history forever if he got that one wrong...

Ha!! That's gotta be the worst.... especially when Kiper said on air how he doesn't think the Jets understand how the draft works (or something like that)

[Shadetree]

Boozer ruined everything...fowlers not falling to us.