Carlton and Boomer: " Fitz/Jets have an agreement in place

[The Engineer]

44 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Fitz doesn't need excuses.  He performs.  The team went 10-6 last year, not 8-8.  Even if that's his highwater mark, that's higher than Geno's.  Fitz deserves blame in each of the team's 6 losses (even in the Raider game, he should not have gotten himself hurt), that much is true.  But so does Geno for why he has a 12-20 career record.

 

Next time try watching the games instead of looking at the stat lines. And if you actually did watch the games go get your eyes checked out. If I were you I would take that free t-shirt and head on home.

[Jetsfan80]

1 minute ago, The Engineer said:

Next time try watching the games instead of looking at the stat lines. And if you actually did watch the games go get your eyes checked out. If I were you I would take that free t-shirt and head on home.

I did watch the games.  And time and again last year Fitz was leading drives late in games to get us victories.  He had solid chemistry with Marshall and Decker all year long.  Yet many here would still prefer to hand the keys to Geno, who neither passed the eye test nor the numbers test in his 2+ seasons, and a guy who the coaching staff clearly has little interest in putting on the field. 

Jets fans are the worst.

[Mike135]

19 minutes ago, Rangers9 said:

It wasn't Tebow's fault. As terrible as Mark was that season they wouldn't allow him to play probably because they never (even though Rex said they did) come up with an offense he could run.He had a total of about 8 pass attempts that entire year. And they put him in on running plays when the opponents esp on 3rd downs keyed on him because it was obvious he was going to run the ball. It was a joke. And not his fault. 

Everything is Tebow's fault.  Starving children, climate change, financial crisis, wars...  all Tebow.  F that POS.  

Other than that, he's a cool guy.

[Ex-Rex]

If he drafts a QB, Geno gets cut and he gains some Cap relief.
So do Jets fans in general.

[Beerfish]

5 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

I did watch the games.  And time and again last year Fitz was leading drives late in games to get us victories.  He had solid chemistry with Marshall and Decker all year long.  Yet many here would still prefer to hand the keys to Geno, who neither passed the eye test nor the numbers test in his 2+ seasons, and a guy who the coaching staff clearly has little interest in putting on the field. 

Jets fans are the worst.

Dude you have to look pretty and spin the ball nicely when you get great results, you can't just get great results.  The higher authorities on this site have clued us in on that important point.

[Maxman]

5 minutes ago, The Engineer said:

Next time try watching the games instead of looking at the stat lines. And if you actually did watch the games go get your eyes checked out. If I were you I would take that free t-shirt and head on home.

Hey thank you for signing up here. We appreciate that everyone takes the time to post their Jets thoughts here. We also know that everyone isn't going to agree on everything. That is what makes the site great, the back and forth discussion.

That said, you are calling people a fool and nuts if they don't agree with you. You need to find a way to have a conversation without that kind of stuff. We are all adults here we can disagree without getting personal.

[Dcat]

1 hour ago, drdetroit said:

Be the dumbest thing ever to trade Mo now for a 2nd round pick.

 

I prefer Fitz over Geno but Fitz is not that much better.

 

the alternative seems to be to use him for a year at $15.7 million and then let him go a s a FA and get nothing for him, provided they are *still* unable to come to terms on a long term deal (which I still want to happen).

[Villain The Foe]

1 hour ago, BowlesMovement said:

Eli Manning is the definition of needing a lot of talent around him to be good. When he was not chucking it up to Plaxico, with an all world running game and defense, or throwing 10 yard slants to Beckham that he takes to the house, he was very Fitz like. Its funny how you criticize Fitzpatrick for needing a team around him, but have no problem using Eli. And talk about an easy schedule, man, the 15 Giants schedule was putrid.

Eli is "Very Fitz-like". okay buddy.

 

Anyway, I never criticized Fitz for needing a team around him. Every QB that isnt an elite QB needs talent around him, so that would be a ridiculous position to take when criticizing Fitz. My problem with Fitz is that, unlike Eli, he has never risen to the occassion. Both guys have been in the league for atleast a decade, and I can point to numerous games where Eli stepped up and will'd a "must win game" whether in in the regular season or in the playoffs. Im still waiting for this to happen with Fitz. Fitz first true "must win game" was a win and in scenario and he threw 3 picks to end the season. 

And if you think that im wrong, cool. But instead of again comparing Eli Manning, just point me to the games throughout his career where it was an absolute must win situation and Fitz came through. If you can do that I'll say that im wrong...no problem at all. 

 

[Warfish]

56 minutes ago, Villain The Foe said:

Anyway, I never criticized Fitz for needing a team around him. Every QB that isnt an elite QB needs talent around him,

Does Glennon need a team around him?  Is Glennon elite right now?

Quote

My problem with Fitz is that, unlike Eli, he has never risen to the occassion. Both guys have been in the league for atleast a decade, and I can point to numerous games where Eli stepped up and will'd a "must win game" whether in in the regular season or in the playoffs.

A fair criticism.  difference is of course that Eli has always had a better organization, better coaches, and better players to support him that Fitz has had.  Oh, and consistency, which cannot be undervalued in helping Eli be better.

Quote

Im still waiting for this to happen with Fitz. Fitz first true "must win game" was a win and in scenario and he threw 3 picks to end the season. 

In a game where the entire team feel flat, WR's dropped balls, and the Defense (especially Revis) was disappointing, and both starting RB's were basically DOA and useless.

Be assured, if Eli played those Bills, and his D (and top paid player) was deeply disappointing and got burned all day, his WR's dropped balls, and his two best RB's were useless.....he'd probably have thrown 3 INT's too.  

I certainly hope you don't think Glennon would have risen above the entire jets team that day......do you?

Quote

And if you think that im wrong, cool.

I don't think you're wrong.  I think you, like JoeWilly, vastly overstate Fitz responsibility fot the Bills loss, and vastly understate the rest of our teams responsibility for that loss.

Because you, like him, have an agenda, and a more accurate "well, everyone, including Fitz, was bad that day" analysis doesn't sell Jets Green Glennon jerseys, does it?

Quote

 

 

 

[Villain The Foe]

14 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Does Glennon need a team around him?  Is Glennon elite right now?

A fair criticism.  difference is of course that Eli has always had a better organization, better coaches, and better players to support him that Fitz has had.  Oh, and consistency, which cannot be undervalued in helping Eli be better.

In a game where the entire team feel flat, WR's dropped balls, and the Defense (especially Revis) was disappointing, and both starting RB's were basically DOA and useless.

Be assured, if Eli played those Bills, and his D (and top paid player) was deeply disappointing and got burned all day, his WR's dropped balls, and his two best RB's were useless.....he'd probably have thrown 3 INT's too.  

I certainly hope you don't think Glennon would have risen above the entire jets team that day......do you?

I don't think you're wrong.  I think you, like JoeWilly, vastly overstate Fitz responsibility fot the Bills loss, and vastly understate the rest of our teams responsibility for that loss.

Because you, like him, have an agenda, and a more accurate "well, everyone, including Fitz, was bad that day" analysis doesn't sell Jets Green Glennon jerseys, does it?

 

I asked Bowles not to compare Manning, so there you go bringing up Glennon. I stopped reading the moment you included Glennon. This dude has had 60 games were opponents scored 21 or more points over the 6 teams/11 seasons he's played in the league. 

Dude has won less than 10 of those games. Period

He's had 24 of those games the past 4 years and only won 2 of them. That's all I need to know. Everyone else can damage control that if they like. 

[Warfish]

1 hour ago, Villain The Foe said:

I asked Bowles not to compare Manning, so there you go bringing up Glennon.

Given who you are, and what your strongly held opinion is, it seems appropriate.

1 hour ago, Villain The Foe said:

 I stopped reading the moment you included Glennon.

Thats dissapointing.  A complete dodge on a variety of directly on-topic (and not all Glennon related) questions/comments, and you're either unwilling, or incapable, of answering or addressing them?   well, that too speaks loudly I'd say.

1 hour ago, Villain The Foe said:

This dude has had 60 games were opponents scored 21 or more points over the 6 teams/11 seasons he's played in the league. 

Dude has won less than 10 of those games. Period

He's had 24 of those games the past 4 years and only won 2 of them. That's all I need to know. Everyone else can damage control that if they like. 

Only a drooling simpleton would distill complex multiple-factor reality into simplistic single-factor general wins/loss numbers and loudly proclaim that "good 'nuff".

And you and I both know you're no simpleton.

But the agenda is strong, so I suppose I'm not surprised at your lack of engagement in anything beyond supportive "Get Glennon" talk.

[Joe Jets fan]

OMG, I just realized in 2-3 years posters on here are still going to be pounding the table saying that Geno was a good QB and that we missed out.     

[Mike135]

39 minutes ago, Joe Jets fan said:

OMG, I just realized in 2-3 years posters on here are still going to be pounding the table saying that Geno was a good QB and that we missed out.     

Ha, no reason to wait 2-3 years.  We've already missed out on Geno and probably the playoffs last season.

[JohnnyLV]

3 hours ago, Warfish said:

Does Glennon need a team around him?  Is Glennon elite right now?

A fair criticism.  difference is of course that Eli has always had a better organization, better coaches, and better players to support him that Fitz has had.  Oh, and consistency, which cannot be undervalued in helping Eli be better.

In a game where the entire team feel flat, WR's dropped balls, and the Defense (especially Revis) was disappointing, and both starting RB's were basically DOA and useless.

Be assured, if Eli played those Bills, and his D (and top paid player) was deeply disappointing and got burned all day, his WR's dropped balls, and his two best RB's were useless.....he'd probably have thrown 3 INT's too.  

I certainly hope you don't think Glennon would have risen above the entire jets team that day......do you?

I don't think you're wrong.  I think you, like JoeWilly, vastly overstate Fitz responsibility fot the Bills loss, and vastly understate the rest of our teams responsibility for that loss.

Because you, like him, have an agenda, and a more accurate "well, everyone, including Fitz, was bad that day" analysis doesn't sell Jets Green Glennon jerseys, does it?

 

Always interesting the irrationality of your posts on Fitz. Geno throws a pick- he sucks, Fitz does the same, he's from Harvard..Fitz throws three it is rationalized away by 10 different excuses, Geno does it he is worst QB ever.

Reality both are pretty terrible. Geno has possible upside Fitz has none and zero chance of duplicating that illusion of a season he had last year

 

[UnitedWhofans]

1 minute ago, johnnysd said:

Always interesting the irrationality of your posts on Fitz. Geno throws a pick- he sucks, Fitz does the same, he's from Harvard..Fitz throws three it is rationalized away by 10 different excuses, Geno does it he is worst QB ever.

Reality both are pretty terrible. Geno has possible upside Fitz has none and zero chance of duplicating that illusion of a season he had last year

 

I possibly agree. However it is also about keeping up appearances. I would rather lose with Fitz than with Geno. Believe it or not, it would feel better. It just would feel like SOJ to me to have this QB have this great season and then we let him go

[nyjunc]

17 minutes ago, UnitedWhofans said:

I possibly agree. However it is also about keeping up appearances. I would rather lose with Fitz than with Geno. Believe it or not, it would feel better. It just would feel like SOJ to me to have this QB have this great season and then we let him go

I don't subscribe to "SOJ" but wouldn't breaking records, winning 5 straight, having Pitt lose in week 16 to set up in a win and in game against a dead team then Fitz throwing 3 INts and losing be "SOJ"?  so losing w/ Fitz would feel better- I just don't get it.

[Warfish]

1 hour ago, johnnysd said:

Always interesting the irrationality of your posts on Fitz. Geno throws a pick- he sucks, Fitz does the same, he's from Harvard..Fitz throws three it is rationalized away by 10 different excuses, Geno does it he is worst QB ever.

See, the problem with this is it's reducto ad absurdum generalizations.

I discuss specifics, in this moment the specifics of why the three INT's on Fitz vs. Buffalo was what they were, and why we lost that day.  And at no time have I said Fitz played well, he bears his responsibility for that loss like Revis and everyone else who played poorly or was hurt.

If we want to discuss Geno Smith INT's, I'm happy to, but I'll discuss them specifically, specific throws in specific games (presuming he ever plays again here).  

Boiling it down to "all Fitz good, all Smith bad" is simply not reflective of reality.  

[ChuckkieB]

Its really a simple equation.  Fitzpatrick is a journeyman stiff who had a really good year in 2015.  Geno Smith is a stiff who has NEVER had a good year.  In fact, he's had two poor years.  Neither choice guarantees any kind of success in 2016.  We still need to find a franchise QB.  

[The Engineer]

7 hours ago, Maxman said:

Hey thank you for signing up here. We appreciate that everyone takes the time to post their Jets thoughts here. We also know that everyone isn't going to agree on everything. That is what makes the site great, the back and forth discussion.

That said, you are calling people a fool and nuts if they don't agree with you. You need to find a way to have a conversation without that kind of stuff. We are all adults here we can disagree without getting personal.

Im glad you chose to call me out in public, rather than private. Fact is half the people on here use way worse talk to each other than simply calling someone nuts! Everybody has a right to their opinion, as well as questioning those opinions. Fact that you choose to call me out and no one else speaks volumes for you, not me. 

[UnitedWhofans]

On 4/5/2016 at 7:35 PM, fltflo said:

Sorry guys but if history teaches us anything, most of you loving the resigning of Fitz, won't be feeling the same way by mid season.

The correct move, if the Jets are moving on from Geno was, upgrading the QB position with younger more long term solution. Signing Fitz as our starter is nothing short of a dead end. With this years schedule and the perfect blueprint Rex laid out, we will be luck to win 8 games.

If that is going to be the case, then better to lose 8 with a QB that is going to improve the following year, rather then one who had his peak last season.

Wrong. Better to lose games and get a high draft pick

[UnitedWhofans]

1 hour ago, nyjunc said:

I don't subscribe to "SOJ" but wouldn't breaking records, winning 5 straight, having Pitt lose in week 16 to set up in a win and in game against a dead team then Fitz throwing 3 INts and losing be "SOJ"?  so losing w/ Fitz would feel better- I just don't get it.

Not when expectations are brought into view.

[Villain The Foe]

4 hours ago, Warfish said:

Given who you are, and what your strongly held opinion is, it seems appropriate.

Thats dissapointing.  A complete dodge on a variety of directly on-topic (and not all Glennon related) questions/comments, and you're either unwilling, or incapable, of answering or addressing them?   well, that too speaks loudly I'd say.

Only a drooling simpleton would distill complex multiple-factor reality into simplistic single-factor general wins/loss numbers and loudly proclaim that "good 'nuff".

And you and I both know you're no simpleton.

But the agenda is strong, so I suppose I'm not surprised at your lack of engagement in anything beyond supportive "Get Glennon" talk.

Only simpleton's throw slurs at people, calling them "simpletons" when they dont get their way. 

Ryan Fitzpatrick is an overglorified back up. FACE IT! My appreciation of another QB, and your usage of that fact wont ever change what Ryan's career has proven to be. 

This made me laugh at you, not with you! lol. And now I will dismiss you....because I can. 

[fltflo]

Wrong. Better to lose games and get a high draft pick

I'm okay with this path as well as long as we are losing with an upside. By that I mean, we are finding out if Geno is really that bad with a solid supporting cast. We are getting Petty game day experience and seeing just what he brings to the table. We are getting Glennon up to speed in our system and developing chemistry with his new teammates.

Paying Fitz, good man that he is, anything more then back up monies to be anything other then a mentor, backup, clipboard holding, emergency last resort, is just wasting another year.

[TuscanyTile2]

I hope they agree to disagree.

[Maxman]

1 hour ago, The Engineer said:

Im glad you chose to call me out in public, rather than private. Fact is half the people on here use way worse talk to each other than simply calling someone nuts! Everybody has a right to their opinion, as well as questioning those opinions. Fact that you choose to call me out and no one else speaks volumes for you, not me. 

Thank you for the feedback. Not sure how I called you out by posting what I did.  Aka I was nice, unlike how you have treated everyone who you disagree with.

It speaks volumes for me though, lol. I like that. Nice touch.

[Maxman]

1 hour ago, The Engineer said:

Im glad you chose to call me out in public, rather than private. Fact is half the people on here use way worse talk to each other than simply calling someone nuts! Everybody has a right to their opinion, as well as questioning those opinions. Fact that you choose to call me out and no one else speaks volumes for you, not me. 

I just read what I wrote again, if you think that was me calling you out then you're nuts.  See what I did there?

[32EBoozer]

2 hours ago, Maxman said:

I just read what I wrote again, if you think that was me calling you out then you're nuts.  See what I did there?

Well...... looks like this thread is coming to an end soon.

It's been fun!

When the students start yelling at the teacher, its time to dismiss the class.

[Warfish]

4 hours ago, Villain The Foe said:

Only simpleton's throw slurs at people, calling them "simpletons" when they dont get their way. 

I didn't call you a simpleton.  Quite the contrary, I said "we both know you're not a simpleton" which, I would say, should be clear cut evidence I don;t think you're a simpleton.

4 hours ago, Villain The Foe said:

Ryan Fitzpatrick is an overglorified back up.

As, right now, is Glennon.

4 hours ago, Villain The Foe said:

My appreciation of another QB, and your usage of that fact wont ever change what Ryan's career has proven to be. 

Which makes it odd that you're avoiding addressing direct points about Glennon, Eli Manning and other Jets players role in our Bills loss.

Ryan overall career was not in question in the post you're taking great pains not to address.

4 hours ago, Villain The Foe said:

This made me laugh at you, not with you! lol. And now I will dismiss you....because I can. 

You certainly can.  As I say, what we choose to answer, or not, speaks loudly for the quality of our opinions my friend.

[Smashmouth]

12 hours ago, Beerfish said:

Dude you have to look pretty and spin the ball nicely when you get great results, you can't just get great results.  The higher authorities on this site have clued us in on that important point.

even Uncle Rico throws a Spiral damn the quotye system

[Smashmouth]

Im not sure WTF happened in my last post but the quote system on this site needs to be put down

[Jet Nut]

6 hours ago, Warfish said:

See, the problem with this is it's reducto ad absurdum generalizations.

I discuss specifics, in this moment the specifics of why the three INT's on Fitz vs. Buffalo was what they were, and why we lost that day.  And at no time have I said Fitz played well, he bears his responsibility for that loss like Revis and everyone else who played poorly or was hurt.

If we want to discuss Geno Smith INT's, I'm happy to, but I'll discuss them specifically, specific throws in specific games (presuming he ever plays again here).  

Boiling it down to "all Fitz good, all Smith bad" is simply not reflective of reality.  

You're a QB.  No matter what's going on around you, you're on the 14 yard line, 1st down, down 2 points.  The number 1 thing is protect the ball.  For all that went wrong that day, for all the people Fitz fans want to blame, he had the ball in his hands, game on the line and a chance to pull the game out.  Don't move the ball an inch and still it's 90+% you take the lead.  

Fitz shlt the bed and we're blaming Revis instead. 

No way.  A good QB does the smart thing.  I don't care if he's not a good QB, you don't make a risky throw at that position on the field, that score, etc.. It was an idiotic play.  Come on you know it was.  

No matter who was at QB.  If we disagree, fine.  

[Warfish]

31 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

You're a QB.  No matter what's going on around you, you're on the 14 yard line, 1st down, down 2 points.  The number 1 thing is protect the ball.  For all that went wrong that day, for all the people Fitz fans want to blame, he had the ball in his hands, game on the line and a chance to pull the game out.  Don't move the ball an inch and still it's 90+% you take the lead.

A game is not won or lost on one possession or by one player.

Fitz played rather poorly.  He also had no real help.  Both things are true, some want to deny some while highlighting others.  I accept both as true.

31 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

 

Fitz shlt the bed and we're blaming Revis instead. 

Giving up 11 catches and 136 yards when you're the highest paid player on the team will do that.

31 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

 If we disagree, fine.  

Fitz played poorly.  I've said it a hundred times.  

But ignoring the role played by the other 50+ guys wearing Jets Green and Coaching that day is just....yeah.

[Jet Nut]

1 hour ago, Warfish said:

A game is not won or lost on one possession or by one player.

Fitz played rather poorly.  He also had no real help.  Both things are true, some want to deny some while highlighting others.  I accept both as true.

Giving up 11 catches and 136 yards when you're the highest paid player on the team will do that.

Fitz played poorly.  I've said it a hundred times.  

But ignoring the role played by the other 50+ guys wearing Jets Green and Coaching that day is just....yeah.

Never said both aren't or can't be true.

What I said is the game was on the line, it's outcome on Fitzs hand and he shlt the bed.  Harvard threw a pass that he never should have thrown.  Again, they all played poorly but a QB has to take the lead there.  It's not like they gave up 40 points.

It is interesting that one player can't cost a game but you name Revis, his stats against him and his salary, as if that makes a difference.  

Again, let's agree to disagree.  

 

[jgb]

On 4/5/2016 at 5:59 AM, Il Mostro said:

He better come cheap and short.  I believe we caught lightning in a bottle with Fitz last season and he will disappoint in a big way going forward.

4,000 yards is 4,000 yards. TDs can be fluky I will grant you that but yards are yards. Fitz had the most, or at least top 2 most, productive Jets seasons ever at the position.

On 4/5/2016 at 6:13 AM, Jetlag said:

WHO CALLED IT!!  

 

Everyone on Earth except the most extreme Geno sniffers?

On 4/5/2016 at 7:35 AM, fltflo said:

Sorry guys but if history teaches us anything, most of you loving the resigning of Fitz, won't be feeling the same way by mid season.

The correct move, if the Jets are moving on from Geno was, upgrading the QB position with younger more long term solution. Signing Fitz as our starter is nothing short of a dead end. With this years schedule and the perfect blueprint Rex laid out, we will be luck to win 8 games.

If that is going to be the case, then better to lose 8 with a QB that is going to improve the following year, rather then one who had his peak last season.

What do you think they been trying to do for 45 years?

On 4/6/2016 at 8:10 AM, cant wait said:

With our luck we'd get the first pick in the draft and Watson would decide to stay at Clemson 

It wouldn't be luck. He'd pull a Peyton and stay to avoid being drafted by Jets. For Jets to ever get a stud QB in draft they probably need #1 pick two years in a row to trap a guy.

On 4/6/2016 at 8:44 AM, ChuckkieB said:

If this is true, it gives the Jets the best chance to win games THIS year, which is fine, but Fitz is merely a placeholder, and the bigger question for me is - who is he keeping the seat warm for?  Will that QB be on the roster after this years draft? 

If last 45 years means anything, probably not but you have to keep trying.

On 4/6/2016 at 1:30 PM, long suffering jets fan said:

I was thinking about this the other day.  No way Mac wasn't prepared for this from the beginning of free agency.  He and Fitz had an agreement that Fitz go out and see what his value is and the Jets will match.

Mac isn't going to leave the QB position to chance, or Geno.

Exactly. When two parties disagree on market value you... ask the market! 

[32EBoozer]

5 hours ago, jgb said:

4,000 yards is 4,000 yards. TDs can be fluky I will grant you that but yards are yards. Fitz had the most, or at least top 2 most, productive Jets seasons ever at the position.

Everyone on Earth except the most extreme Geno sniffers?

What do you think they been trying to do for 45 years?

It wouldn't be luck. He'd pull a Peyton and stay to avoid being drafted by Jets. For Jets to ever get a stud QB in draft they probably need #1 pick two years in a row to trap a guy.

If last 45 years means anything, probably not but you have to keep trying.

Exactly. When two parties disagree on market value you... ask the market! 

Great post, and I hope you're right about the last point. That would help keep any anger towards the Jets to a minimum.

"Look Fitzy, we're willing to offer you a 2 yr. $14m contract if you don't find anything better out there.

We'd love to hav you back but that's all we're willing to invest in the position at this time.

If you get a better offer, please allow us the opportunity to match before signing. Good Luck out there"