Fitz vs Eli

[FlaJetsFan]

•  

Stats do not always tell the whole story.  That said, here is a (loose) comparison between Eli Manning's contract/stats from last year, vs R. Fitzpatrick career averages while at Buffalo (last season's stats are a statistical anomaly for this player, so I'm leaving these out, although they would still not equal the numbers put up by Manning last year.)

These two quarterback are roughly the same age, and play in the same market.
Eli Manning has taken the Giants to the Super Bowl twice, winning both times.
Fitzpatrick has never guided any team to the NFL playoffs during an equally long career.

E. Manning 
annual compensation (approx, based on $65MM 4-year guarantee)
$16,250,000  
per game compensation
$1,015,625

'15-'16 TDs (season):  35
Passing yards: 4,432
cost per TD:  $29,018
cost per yard:  $229

R. Fitzpatrick: 4-year Buffalo averages
TD per season:  20
Passing yds: 2,914
Assuming he wants around $16MM per year
this means he would make 1MM per game, on a par with E. Manning

This breaks out to

Cost per TD: 50K (40 per cent more than E. Manning)
Cost per yard: $343 (66 per cent more than E. Manning, who has taken his team to the playoffs 5 times vs 0 for Fitzpatrick)

Conclusion:  Fitzpatrick, a journeyman second rate QB, has made compensation demands that are unsubstantiated by his NFL track record.   Nobody in the NFL has shown any inclination to believe he is worth this sort of money.  Despite his unimpressive career stats, Fitzpatrick has already earned tens of millions of dollars during a second or third tier NFL career. Rather than jump on the possibility that he may (temporarily) have something special going on with Marshall and Decker, and possibly validate his career by actually getting a team to the playoffs, Fitzpatrick has instead chosen to make the sorts of demands that have likely ended his days as a starting NFL QB.  The Jets should publicly cut bait now, and stop talking about wanting him back.  Geno and the two young guns should fight it out this preseason; the end result is likely to equate to whatever Fitz would statistically achieve, and we may need as fans to accept our team taking a small step back in order to make several huge ones forward. Unless Fitz has already chosen to retire absent a king's ransom, and is merely playing chicken with Mac for the heck of it, the Jets have no reason to bid against themselves with this aging, mediocre player.  Instead, they would be wise complete the process of entirely ridding this team of all its bloated contracts by '17, and fully transition to a Jets roster that is free of greedy, disruptive prima donnas that are unlikely to help the team long term.

[jetrider]

That's exactly what it is. Other team leaders like Brees volunteer pay cuts to help the team.

This playoff virgin prima donna douche plays hardball and holds the Jets ransom over one .500+ season in 11 sucky years.

I hope Hackenberg shows enough soon enough for Maccagnan to cut ties with Fitz before July. 

Fitz would rather not play than lower his price. The way I see it, the player that wants to play the least shouldn't be paid the most. 

 

 

[joewilly12]

Eli Manning has 2 Super Bowl rings Ryan Fitzpatrick has 0 

Enough said

[southparkcpa]

5 minutes ago, jetrider said:

That's exactly what it is. Other team leaders like Brees volunteer pay cuts to help the team.

This playoff virgin prima donna douche plays hardball and holds the Jets ransom over one .500+ season in 11 sucky years.

I hope Hackenberg shows enough soon enough for Maccagnan to cut ties with Fitz before July. 

Fitz would rather not play than lower his price. The way I see it, the player that wants to play the least shouldn't be paid the most. 

 

 

Im in agreement.  Liked FITZ but he shlt the bed in 3 games where the opponent was not a 500 team  and THAT win would have had us playoff bound.

He is a losing QB  , numbers dont lie.

[prime21]

I think we need to up the offer for Fitz.  Definitely not what he is demanding but something that gets him in the building.  I do not believe we will win a Super Bowl this year because Fitz is the QB but he does bring some excitement and the possibility of making the playoffs.  Make the playoffs and anything can happen.   The big reason I want Fitz back is so that Hackenburg can sit and hopefully get help from him. Although Fitz doesn't appear to be a team guy right now, everything we know about him says that he is a great teammate and I would expect him to be a great mentor to Hackenberg.

The NFL is a bushiness so Fitz knows what the writing on the wall is.  He wants two years but the Jets may now only need a 1 year from him so even more so does he want to get paid.  

[Kleckineau]

Fitz and winner dont fitz in the same sentence.

Buh bye Ryan its Hacks time.

[Tinstar]

Is this a Joke ?

[JoJoTownsell1]

I agree with much of what OP said (cut  bait with Fitz) but the Jets know that eventually Fitz will come crawling back. Fitz is a gamer and no one else will give him what he wants (money or starting job). So he has zero leverage. 

[PatsFanTX]

The Fitz-lovers are not going to like this thread.

[UpstateJetsGuru]

9 minutes ago, joewilly12 said:

Eli Manning has 2 Super Bowl rings Ryan Fitzpatrick has 0 

Enough said

Trent Dilfer has one...Dan Marino zero. Enough said?

[joewilly12]

5 minutes ago, UpstateJetsGuru said:

Trent Dilfer has one...Dan Marino zero. Enough said?

Ok, who's comparing those 2 the thread title is Fitz vs Eli  

Only thing Fitz has over Eli is the Snoopy Bowl trophy for 2015 

[Kleckineau]

2 minutes ago, joewilly12 said:

Ok, who's comparing those 2 the thread title is Fitz vs Eli  

Only thing Fitz has over Eli is the Snoopy Bowl trophy for 2015 

No respect for wonderlic.

[jetrider]

6 minutes ago, prime21 said:

I think we need to up the offer for Fitz.  Definitely not what he is demanding but something that gets him in the building.  I do not believe we will win a Super Bowl this year because Fitz is the QB but he does bring some excitement and the possibility of making the playoffs.  Make the playoffs and anything can happen.   The big reason I want Fitz back is so that Hackenburg can sit and hopefully get help from him. Although Fitz doesn't appear to be a team guy right now, everything we know about him says that he is a great teammate and I would expect him to be a great mentor to Hackenberg.

The NFL is a bushiness so Fitz knows what the writing on the wall is.  He wants two years but the Jets may now only need a 1 year from him so even more so does he want to get paid.  

Fitz won't budge or it would've been done already. His desire to play isn't strong enough for him to consider less than he wants.

 

[Larz]

my eyes shows me eli ripping passes through defenses hitting wr's in stride leading to long plays as well as making bonehead decisions he shouldn't make this far into his career

my eyes show me fitz heaving lobs up and getting bailed out by beasts like marshall and decker, but hitting some decent underneath throws from time to time and running the offense pre-snap like we haven't seen in years

they are both risk takers, and make mistakes to go along with it but this whole "eli's stats suck too" argument is so 2009

the only reason I want fitz back is the jets have no better option and his team mates seem to really love him, and that counts for something but we need to be honest and acknowledge we have never seen more wild passes and pathetic deep balls than we saw last year, fitz just got lucky a lot

 

[Rangers9]

I don't believe that Fitz is asking for 16 mil a year but he might be trying to get an extra year and maybe some money to compensate him for getting underpaid last year. I thought that Fitz outplayed him in '15 but overall Eli's the better Qb. 

[joewilly12]

5 minutes ago, Rangers9 said:

I don't believe that Fitz is asking for 16 mil a year but he might be trying to get an extra year and maybe some money to compensate him for getting underpaid last year. I thought that Fitz outplayed him in '15 but overall Eli's the better Qb. 

How about we give Fitzpatrick one of these for last season. 

[Villain The Foe]

1 hour ago, FlaJetsFan said:

•  

Stats do not always tell the whole story.  That said, here is a (loose) comparison between Eli Manning's contract/stats from last year, vs R. Fitzpatrick career averages while at Buffalo (last season's stats are a statistical anomaly for this player, so I'm leaving these out, although they would still not equal the numbers put up by Manning last year.)

These two quarterback are roughly the same age, and play in the same market.
Eli Manning has taken the Giants to the Super Bowl twice, winning both times.
Fitzpatrick has never guided any team to the NFL playoffs during an equally long career.

E. Manning 
annual compensation (approx, based on $65MM 4-year guarantee)
$16,250,000  
per game compensation
$1,015,625

'15-'16 TDs (season):  35
Passing yards: 4,432
cost per TD:  $29,018
cost per yard:  $229

R. Fitzpatrick: 4-year Buffalo averages
TD per season:  20
Passing yds: 2,914
Assuming he wants around $16MM per year
this means he would make 1MM per game, on a par with E. Manning

This breaks out to

Cost per TD: 50K (40 per cent more than E. Manning)
Cost per yard: $343 (66 per cent more than E. Manning, who has taken his team to the playoffs 5 times vs 0 for Fitzpatrick)

Conclusion:  Fitzpatrick, a journeyman second rate QB, has made compensation demands that are unsubstantiated by his NFL track record.   Nobody in the NFL has shown any inclination to believe he is worth this sort of money.  Despite his unimpressive career stats, Fitzpatrick has already earned tens of millions of dollars during a second or third tier NFL career. Rather than jump on the possibility that he may (temporarily) have something special going on with Marshall and Decker, and possibly validate his career by actually getting a team to the playoffs, Fitzpatrick has instead chosen to make the sorts of demands that have likely ended his days as a starting NFL QB.  The Jets should publicly cut bait now, and stop talking about wanting him back.  Geno and the two young guns should fight it out this preseason; the end result is likely to equate to whatever Fitz would statistically achieve, and we may need as fans to accept our team taking a small step back in order to make several huge ones forward. Unless Fitz has already chosen to retire absent a king's ransom, and is merely playing chicken with Mac for the heck of it, the Jets have no reason to bid against themselves with this aging, mediocre player.  Instead, they would be wise complete the process of entirely ridding this team of all its bloated contracts by '17, and fully transition to a Jets roster that is free of greedy, disruptive prima donnas that are unlikely to help the team long term.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

 

[Villain The Foe]

1 hour ago, jetrider said:

That's exactly what it is. Other team leaders like Brees volunteer pay cuts to help the team.

This playoff virgin prima donna douche plays hardball and holds the Jets ransom over one .500+ season in 11 sucky years.

I hope Hackenberg shows enough soon enough for Maccagnan to cut ties with Fitz before July. 

Fitz would rather not play than lower his price. The way I see it, the player that wants to play the least shouldn't be paid the most. 

 

 

Hack is a long shot my friend. Just say it...You hope Geno shows enough for Macc to completely cut ties with Fitz before July. 

 

Hackenberg is not up for starting role. Macc is going to actually develop him. Once people understand that the quicker they'll realize that this is Geno's/Petty's team. And if Geno cant outperform Petty then all of us will be begging for Fitz to come back. 

[Tinstar]

3 minutes ago, Villain The Foe said:

Hack is a long shot my friend. Just say it...You hope Geno shows enough for Macc to completely cut ties with Fitz before July. 

 

Hackenberg is not up for starting role. Macc is going to actually develop him. Once people understand that the quicker they'll realize that this is Geno's/Petty's team. And if Geno cant outperform Petty then all of us will be begging for Fitz to come back. 

Preach .

[greenwichjetfan]

I'm assuming you chose Eli because he's making the annual amount that Fitz has been reported to be asking for?

In that case, considering that there have also been reports of Fitz asking for $18/yr as well, how does Fitz' season last year compare to Osweiler's in terms of production:cost?

[Tinstar]

2 minutes ago, greenwichjetfan said:

I'm assuming you chose Eli because he's making the annual amount that Fitz has been reported to be asking for?

In that case, considering that there have also been reports of Fitz asking for $18/yr as well, how does Fitz' season last year compare to Osweiler's in terms of production:cost?

Someone wanted a young QB with upside and was willing to pay the price to get him . Nobody wants an old QB  who is looking for his last big pay day and has nothing to offer for the future.

[Augustiniak]

1 hour ago, JoJoTownsell1 said:

I agree with much of what OP said (cut  bait with Fitz) but the Jets know that eventually Fitz will come crawling back. Fitz is a gamer and no one else will give him what he wants (money or starting job). So he has zero leverage. 

he's not in a rush and neither are the jets.  

[EM31]

1 hour ago, jetrider said:

Fitz won't budge or it would've been done already. His desire to play isn't strong enough for him to consider less than he wants.

 

Fitz wont budge until he decides to budge.

[BowlesMovement]

I think Fitz should pay the Jets to take his sucky ass back! I'm thinking if he won't pay the Jets at least Genos salary, f him, he can take a hike!

[Warfish]

2 hours ago, FlaJetsFan said:

•  

Stats do not always tell the whole story.  That said, here is a (loose) comparison between Eli Manning's contract/stats from last year, vs R. Fitzpatrick career averages while at Buffalo (last season's stats are a statistical anomaly for this player, so I'm leaving these out, although they would still not equal the numbers put up by Manning last year.)

These two quarterback are roughly the same age, and play in the same market.
Eli Manning has taken the Giants to the Super Bowl twice, winning both times.
Fitzpatrick has never guided any team to the NFL playoffs during an equally long career.

E. Manning 
annual compensation (approx, based on $65MM 4-year guarantee)
$16,250,000  
per game compensation
$1,015,625

'15-'16 TDs (season):  35
Passing yards: 4,432
cost per TD:  $29,018
cost per yard:  $229

R. Fitzpatrick: 4-year Buffalo averages
TD per season:  20
Passing yds: 2,914
Assuming he wants around $16MM per year
this means he would make 1MM per game, on a par with E. Manning

This breaks out to

Cost per TD: 50K (40 per cent more than E. Manning)
Cost per yard: $343 (66 per cent more than E. Manning, who has taken his team to the playoffs 5 times vs 0 for Fitzpatrick)

Conclusion:  Fitzpatrick, a journeyman second rate QB, has made compensation demands that are unsubstantiated by his NFL track record.   Nobody in the NFL has shown any inclination to believe he is worth this sort of money.  Despite his unimpressive career stats, Fitzpatrick has already earned tens of millions of dollars during a second or third tier NFL career. Rather than jump on the possibility that he may (temporarily) have something special going on with Marshall and Decker, and possibly validate his career by actually getting a team to the playoffs, Fitzpatrick has instead chosen to make the sorts of demands that have likely ended his days as a starting NFL QB.  The Jets should publicly cut bait now, and stop talking about wanting him back.  Geno and the two young guns should fight it out this preseason; the end result is likely to equate to whatever Fitz would statistically achieve, and we may need as fans to accept our team taking a small step back in order to make several huge ones forward. Unless Fitz has already chosen to retire absent a king's ransom, and is merely playing chicken with Mac for the heck of it, the Jets have no reason to bid against themselves with this aging, mediocre player.  Instead, they would be wise complete the process of entirely ridding this team of all its bloated contracts by '17, and fully transition to a Jets roster that is free of greedy, disruptive prima donnas that are unlikely to help the team long term.

Why are we using one year, last year for Eli vs. 4 years of stats, 4 years ago, for Fitz?

Your core argument (that Fitz isn't Eli and isn't worth Eli money) was already strong, why Enron the numbers and cast doubt on the integrity of your argument?

If we average Eli the same as you averaged Fitz, his average TD's is 27.  Not 35 (which was 2015 only, and 5 higher than his previous best year ever).  Even if we average Eli's TD's over his whole career, it's 26, far higher than Fitz.  No cooking of the books was needed to make this case.

But since you wanted to use Eli's 2015 only, lets do that for both equally, shall we?

Eli, as you said, threw 35 TD's for 4,432 Yards for 16 million dollars, and won 6 games.  That's $457K per Touchdown, $3,600 per Yard and $2.66 mil per Win.

Fitz in 2015 threw 31 TD's, for 3,905 Yards for 3.25 million, and won 10 games.  That's $104K per Touchdown, $833 per Yard and $325K per Win.

Fitz was a heck of a bargain in 2015, wasn't he?  Perhaps the single most cost effective non-rookie-deal QB in the NFL.

The difference of course, which also didn't require fudged numbers, is that with Eli we can expect similar years to his average going forward.  With Fitz, there can be no such expectation of matching 2015's performance.

If you're looking for someone to argue Fitz is worth 16 millions dollars, he isn't.  

If you're looking for someone to claim Fitz is Eli's equal, he isn't.

Fitz is better than Geno, that is demonstrable, despite the climate-denier-like excuse making for Geno.  

Fitz would be the best QB to lead the Jets in 2016 of the four likely choices, Fitz/Geno/Petty/Hack.  Also, outside the pro-Geno minority, a generally accepted consensus.

But Fitz would have to do so for ~$8 mil or less.  If he doesn't, he almost assuredly will not be back, and most fans would agree he shouldn't be back at such high cost demand.

The counter to that is we will then start Geno Smith.  Again.  Without competition.  Again.  The worst QB in the NFL in his two years as starter.  

Now, some (almost all Jets Fans) think Geno will be vastly better, because of "fair chances" and "talent around him".  

As of now, it looks like we'll find out if that's true or not.

[FlaJetsFan]

53 minutes ago, greenwichjetfan said:

I'm assuming you chose Eli because he's making the annual amount that Fitz has been reported to be asking for?

In that case, considering that there have also been reports of Fitz asking for $18/yr as well, how does Fitz' season last year compare to Osweiler's in terms of production:cost?

I chose Eli in order to have some objective way to assess Fitz's compensation demands based on very general comparables.  They play in the same exact market, play the same position, are roughly the same age, and have been in the NFL roughly the same amount of time.  This way, one is not comparing apples to oranges, in terms of stacking the stats of a 4-year vet against those of a QB who has been in the league since 2005.  

[Jet Nut]

1 minute ago, FlaJetsFan said:

I chose Eli in order to have some objective way to assess Fitz's compensation demands based on very general comparables.  They play in the same exact market, play the same position, are roughly the same age, and have been in the NFL roughly the same amount of time.  This way, one is not comparing apples to oranges, in terms of stacking the stats of a 4-year vet against those of a QB who has been in the league since 2005.  

Eli's won.  Eli has multiple playoff trips and carried his team to 2 Super Bowl wins.

Someone even said Eli wasnt as good as Fitz a year ago.  Other than being on a better team, with better talent and an easier schedule to help him pick up cheap wins, Elis was better than Fitz in every way imaginable last season.

Unless more yardage, a much higher completion percentage, more TDs with fewer INTs means nothing.

They shouldnt ever be paid on the same lever.   Ever

 

[FlaJetsFan]

1 hour ago, greenwichjetfan said:

I'm assuming you chose Eli because he's making the annual amount that Fitz has been reported to be asking for?

In that case, considering that there have also been reports of Fitz asking for $18/yr as well, how does Fitz' season last year compare to Osweiler's in terms of production:cost?

I chose Eli in order to have some objective way to assess Fitz's compensation demands based on very general comparables.  They play in the same exact market, play the same position, are roughly the same age, and have been in the NFL roughly the same amount of time.  This way, one is not comparing apples to oranges, in terms of stacking the stats of a 4-year vet against those of a QB who has been in the league since 2005.  

[drdetroit]

Fitz went to Harvard.  Eli is autistic 

[FlaJetsFan]

sorry for the double reply! 

re " Why are we using one year, last year for Eli vs. 4 years of stats, 4 years ago, for Fitz?

the reason is Chan, in other words, to try to achieve a (very) rough comparable in terms of deriving a credible statistical scenario Fitz under the same coaching system looking forward, while throwing out his outlier last season. but point well taken on not doing same with Eli.

goes without saying that to compare 4 yrs of QB A vs 4 yrs of QB B is rather difficult due to the enormous difference in variables and minuscule sampling size, so it boils down in the end to gut feeling, experience and common sense.

[Villain The Foe]

54 minutes ago, BowlesMovement said:

I think Fitz should pay the Jets to take his sucky ass back! I'm thinking if he won't pay the Jets at least Genos salary, f him, he can take a hike!

Im really beginning to miss the old BowlesMovement. lol

[Villain The Foe]

 

[BowlesMovement]

1 minute ago, Villain The Foe said:

Im really beginning to miss the old BowlesMovement. lol

(Growl voice) There is no old BowlesMovement only Zuul!

[Integrity28]

Unique thread topic.

Site should be totally unreadable by June.

[chirorob]

2 hours ago, jetrider said:

That's exactly what it is. Other team leaders like Brees volunteer pay cuts to help the team.

This playoff virgin prima donna douche plays hardball and holds the Jets ransom over one .500+ season in 11 sucky years.

I hope Hackenberg shows enough soon enough for Maccagnan to cut ties with Fitz before July. 

Fitz would rather not play than lower his price. The way I see it, the player that wants to play the least shouldn't be paid the most.

Brees did not take a pay cut, he demanded top dollar last time his contract was up.

Re doing a deal isn't a pay cut.  It's turning base into bonus, making the $ the same, but pushing the cap hit back.