Let’s Talk About Matt Forte

[JetNation]

So far Matt Forte has shown us the Jets made the right move picking him up. Will his outstanding performance last all season? What do you think?

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[whodeawhodat]

My thoughts are, he is who we thought he would be.  My concern is, can he do this all season long and what happens if we break our shiny new toy.  What are the implications if he gets cut next year?  It is terrible to think about but if we run him into the ground, what if there is nothing left for next year?

[HoustonJet]

I'm concerned about him getting overused early, injuries etc (see Ivory 2015). Give Powell more carries, he's faster/quicker and a good change of pace.

[Beerfish]

He has run better than I thought, his passing abilities I was ready for but he's done really well as a pure RB.  We do need to lighten the load on him a bit though imo.  Powell needs a few more touches.

[Sperm Edwards]

Would have been nice to have him years ago as well. This is the down side of trading away a good pick on a 1-dimensional RB like Thomas Jones (and giving him a big bunch of money on top of that). There's no serious look at a RB in the following year's draft, and instead of drafting Forte in round 2 where he would have been sitting right there for us, we used our 2nd (plus our 4th) to trade up for Keller: a TE who couldn't/wouldn't block at all, for a conservative, run-first offense. That we traded away 2 picks to move up in round 3 (3 picks total) on Shonn Greene a year later just makes it that much harder to look back upon.

I remember hearing a pre-draft interview with Forte that April. He seemed like just such a great kid. That he turned into such a super player makes it that much worse. Too bad we tried breaking in a pair of rookie QBs (for all each one's own faults) with non-receiving RBs - Jones, Greene, Ivory - starting. They probably would have been failures anyway, but it couldn't have hurt. It certainly would have been nice to have a true dual-threat RB out there in our championship games, or in any matchup where the running game just keeps getting stuffed.

[JustInFudge]

1 hour ago, HoustonJet said:

I'm concerned about him getting overused early, injuries etc (see Ivory 2015). Give Powell more carries, he's faster/quicker and a good change of pace.

This.  30+ touches a game is too much and not necessary.  Powell is very capable of doing everything Forte has done so far.

 

[Jetsfan80]

After Khiry Robinson went down, our depth at RB became a serious concern.  Need to decrease Forte's touches from 30 touches per game down to about 20-22.

[Tinstar]

1 minute ago, JiF said:

This.  30+ touches a game is too much and not necessary.  Powell is very capable of doing everything Forte has done so far.

 

Agreed, so you wear the tires off Forte in the 1st half of the season, then do the same to Powell in the 2nd half and maybe have Forte ready again for the playoff run .

[Ex-Rex]

1 hour ago, whodeawhodat said:

My thoughts are, he is who we thought he would be.  My concern is, can he do this all season long and what happens if we break our shiny new toy.  What are the implications if he gets cut next year?  It is terrible to think about but if we run him into the ground, what if there is nothing left for next year?

First of all you can't worry about two weeks from now let alone next year. If he needs a blow I am sure he tells his coach and they get Bilal in there. I am concerned about the Jets depth at RB. But they have experience handling older RB's with Curtis Martin, Thomas Jones, LT etc.. And they worked out all right. I am sure Forte will as well.

[Ex-Rex]

8 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Would have been nice to have him years ago as well. This is the down side of trading away a good pick on a 1-dimensional RB like Thomas Jones (and giving him a big bunch of money on top of that). There's no serious look at a RB in the following year's draft, and instead of drafting Forte in round 2 where he would have been sitting right there for us, we used our 2nd (plus our 4th) to trade up for Keller: a non-blocking TE for a conservative, run-first offense. That we traded away 2 picks to move up in round 3 (3 picks total) on Shonn Greene a year later just makes it that much harder to look back upon.

I remember hearing a pre-draft interview with Forte that April. He seemed like just such a great kid. That he turned into such a super player makes it that much worse. Too bad we tried breaking in a pair of rookie QBs (for all each one's own faults) with non-receiving RBs - Jones, Greene, Ivory - starting. They probably would have been failures anyway, but it couldn't have hurt. It certainly would have been nice to have a true dual-threat RB out there in our championship games, or in any matchup where the running game just keeps getting stuffed.

Jets lead the league in woulda, coulda shoulda where the draft is concerned. What about Joe Flacco and Russell Wilson, a pair of SB winning QB's that were there for the taking when the Jets drafted. I go crazy thinking about stuff like that all the way back to Marino, who I think if the Jets had drafted would have won multiple SB's. With Walker and Toon and Shuler as well as Freeman McNeil and Johnny Hector and Brad Baxter the offense would have been unstoppable and not to mention the defense. 

[JetsHex]

Forte is fine as the bellcow. He knows how to avoid and absorb the big hits which make him very durable. Barring any injury he can carry the load easily as he has done all of his career. Lots of gas left in that tank.

[whodeawhodat]

9 minutes ago, Ex-Rex said:

First of all you can't worry about two weeks from now let alone next year. If he needs a blow I am sure he tells his coach and they get Bilal in there. I am concerned about the Jets depth at RB. But they have experience handling older RB's with Curtis Martin, Thomas Jones, LT etc.. And they worked out all right. I am sure Forte will as well.

Who has experience handling CM, TJ and LT?????

I was just asking the question about salary cap, we have some experts on this site.

[ljr]

27 minutes ago, Ex-Rex said:

Jets lead the league in woulda, coulda shoulda where the draft is concerned. What about Joe Flacco and Russell Wilson, a pair of SB winning QB's that were there for the taking when the Jets drafted. I go crazy thinking about stuff like that all the way back to Marino, who I think if the Jets had drafted would have won multiple SB's. With Walker and Toon and Shuler as well as Freeman McNeil and Johnny Hector and Brad Baxter the offense would have been unstoppable and not to mention the defense. 

 

Lol @ including Baxter in there

either that ... Or Marino going to Jow Walton nose picker coach instead of Don Shula & he wouldn't have even lost one or won any 

[Jetsfan80]

Btw am I the only one who read this thread to the tune of Salt-n-Pepa's "Let's Talk About Sex"?

[Integrity28]

They will scale him back. I think what we've seen so far is some desperation to get that first W. 

[Jetdawgg]

34 minutes ago, Ex-Rex said:

Jets lead the league in woulda, coulda shoulda where the draft is concerned. What about Joe Flacco and Russell Wilson, a pair of SB winning QB's that were there for the taking when the Jets drafted. I go crazy thinking about stuff like that all the way back to Marino, who I think if the Jets had drafted would have won multiple SB's. With Walker and Toon and Shuler as well as Freeman McNeil and Johnny Hector and Brad Baxter the offense would have been unstoppable and not to mention the defense. 

And Rob Moore/Terrance Mathis....ugh

[Joe W. Namath]

This is football not a knitting class.  Give him the ball all day long.  

Hes a much better runner then i thought he was.  Patient and great vision.  Takes what the defense gives him.  Hes awesome.

[rillo]

Bring in karlos Williams!!

[Sperm Edwards]

1 hour ago, Ex-Rex said:

Jets lead the league in woulda, coulda shoulda where the draft is concerned. What about Joe Flacco and Russell Wilson, a pair of SB winning QB's that were there for the taking when the Jets drafted. I go crazy thinking about stuff like that all the way back to Marino, who I think if the Jets had drafted would have won multiple SB's. With Walker and Toon and Shuler as well as Freeman McNeil and Johnny Hector and Brad Baxter the offense would have been unstoppable and not to mention the defense. 

Missing out on Russell Wilson was mostly due to foolishly doubling down on a reinvestment in Sanchez. It's a valid gripe, especially since our head scout was (allegedly) so smitten with him that his desire for us to draft Wilson is now the stuff of legends.

Missing out on Joe Flacco was due to our pick being too high, so I can't fault them (even with the result being the disastrous Gholston pick). Even the Ravens weren't touching Flacco with their original pick, and they picked a couple of slots after we did. No one on the planet would have taken Flacco with the 6th pick in the country so it's not the same thing.

Passing up on a player right at the point where his draft value made sense -- that's a pick (or really, non-pick) to regret. O'Brien over Marino. Hill over Jeffery. B.Thomas over Ed Reed. Trading up for DSlob instead of what might have been. Not committing to taking Peyton Manning when we had the #1 pick. These are valid regrets. So is trading for Thomas Jones in 2007 so we pass up on Forte in 2008 (trading our 2nd & 4th to move up for Keller), and then using our 3rd, 4th, and 7th on Greene in 2009. Incidentally, the stage was set for the Thomas Jones trade in the first place because in 2006 we traded our 2007 4th rounder to SF for Kevan Barlow.

Bad acquisitions and bad picks don't exist in a vacuum. These investments influence what the team does in its upcoming future drafts and FA periods.

Anyway my point still stands. Would have been nice to have drafted him in '08.

[nyjunc]

2 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Missing out on Russell Wilson was mostly due to foolishly doubling down on a reinvestment in Sanchez. It's a valid gripe, especially since our head scout was (allegedly) so smitten with him that his desire for us to draft Wilson is now the stuff of legends.

Missing out on Joe Flacco was due to our pick being too high, so I can't fault them (even with the result being the disastrous Gholston pick). Even the Ravens weren't touching Flacco with their original pick, and they picked a couple of slots after we did. No one on the planet would have taken Flacco with the 6th pick in the country so it's not the same thing.

Passing up on a player right at the point where his draft value made sense -- that's a pick (or really, non-pick) to regret. O'Brien over Marino. Hill over Jeffery. B.Thomas over Ed Reed. Trading up for DSlob instead of what might have been. Not committing to taking Peyton Manning when we had the #1 pick. These are valid regrets. So is trading for Thomas Jones in 2007 so we pass up on Forte in 2008 (trading our 2nd & 4th to move up for Keller), and then using our 3rd, 4th, and 7th on Greene in 2009. Incidentally, the stage was set for the Thomas Jones trade in the first place because in 2006 we traded our 2007 4th rounder to SF for Kevan Barlow.

Bad acquisitions and bad picks don't exist in a vacuum. These investments influence what the team does in its upcoming future drafts and FA periods.

Anyway my point still stands. Would have been nice to have drafted him in '08.

Jet fans hate Bradway, think he was terrible so why do so many believe this story about Russell Wilson?  

[Sperm Edwards]

Just now, nyjunc said:

Jet fans hate Bradway, think he was terrible so why do so many believe this story about Russell Wilson?  

What reason do we have to disbelieve it? He was a scout by trade. He made some good picks and some bad picks as a GM. We made some good and some bad (ranging from great to disastrous) as the lead scout under Tannenbaum as well.

But clearly you don't hate him, from your tone. The better question might be why you refer to Jets fans as people other than yourself, as though you're not part of this group.  

[CrazyCarl40]

5 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

Jet fans hate Bradway, think he was terrible so why do so many believe this story about Russell Wilson?  

Let me tell you something my friend. Hope is a dangerous thing. Hope can drive a man insane.

[nyjunc]

1 minute ago, Sperm Edwards said:

What reason do we have to disbelieve it? He was a scout by trade. He made some good picks and some bad picks as a GM. We made some good and some bad (ranging from great to disastrous) as the lead scout under Tannenbaum as well.

But clearly you don't hate him, from your tone. The better question might be why you refer to Jets fans as people other than yourself, as though you're not part of this group.  

ha, I think differently.  I don't want to fire/cut/trade everyone when we have a bad game.  Bradway wasn't Ozzie Newsome but he did a good job here, I just find it funny he is bashed beyond belief by our fellow Jet fans then something like this comes out and everyone cites Bradway.

[roscoeword]

1 hour ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Would have been nice to have him years ago as well. This is the down side of trading away a good pick on a 1-dimensional RB like Thomas Jones (and giving him a big bunch of money on top of that). There's no serious look at a RB in the following year's draft, and instead of drafting Forte in round 2 where he would have been sitting right there for us, we used our 2nd (plus our 4th) to trade up for Keller: a non-blocking TE for a conservative, run-first offense. That we traded away 2 picks to move up in round 3 (3 picks total) on Shonn Greene a year later just makes it that much harder to look back upon.

I remember hearing a pre-draft interview with Forte that April. He seemed like just such a great kid. That he turned into such a super player makes it that much worse. Too bad we tried breaking in a pair of rookie QBs (for all each one's own faults) with non-receiving RBs - Jones, Greene, Ivory - starting. They probably would have been failures anyway, but it couldn't have hurt. It certainly would have been nice to have a true dual-threat RB out there in our championship games, or in any matchup where the running game just keeps getting stuffed.

I guess instead of drafting him, we signed Tomlinson to be our dual threat running back, when he was past his prime. So now we sign Forte when he is past his.... ouch.

[roscoeword]

1 hour ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Would have been nice to have him years ago as well. This is the down side of trading away a good pick on a 1-dimensional RB like Thomas Jones (and giving him a big bunch of money on top of that). There's no serious look at a RB in the following year's draft, and instead of drafting Forte in round 2 where he would have been sitting right there for us, we used our 2nd (plus our 4th) to trade up for Keller: a non-blocking TE for a conservative, run-first offense. That we traded away 2 picks to move up in round 3 (3 picks total) on Shonn Greene a year later just makes it that much harder to look back upon.

I remember hearing a pre-draft interview with Forte that April. He seemed like just such a great kid. That he turned into such a super player makes it that much worse. Too bad we tried breaking in a pair of rookie QBs (for all each one's own faults) with non-receiving RBs - Jones, Greene, Ivory - starting. They probably would have been failures anyway, but it couldn't have hurt. It certainly would have been nice to have a true dual-threat RB out there in our championship games, or in any matchup where the running game just keeps getting stuffed.

I guess instead of drafting him, we signed Tomlinson to be our dual threat running back, when he was past his prime. So now we sign Forte when he is past his.... ouch.

[Jetsfan80]

1 hour ago, Integrity28 said:

They will scale him back. I think what we've seen so far is some desperation to get that first W. 

Perhaps with a dose of Chan wanting to make use of his shiny new toy as much as possible?

[Jetsfan80]

1 hour ago, Joe W. Namath said:

This is football not a knitting class.  Give him the ball all day long. 

And when he's hurt later during our playoff push, with only Bilal, Troymaine Pope, Dominique Williams, and a street free agent as our RB group....what then?

Do what you have to do to win games, sure.  But we can accomplish that mission with a healthy mixture of Powell as well.  Bilal is a more than capable RB2. 

[nyjunc]

I would expect to see Powell get more and more touches as the season progresses.  I just hope Forte doesn't end up like LT..  He was great that first month of 2010 then did nothing the rest of the reg season but Greene picked up the slack a bit and LT was fresh for playoffs and he played well in January.

[Beerfish]

1 hour ago, Joe W. Namath said:

This is football not a knitting class.  Give him the ball all day long.  

Hes a much better runner then i thought he was.  Patient and great vision.  Takes what the defense gives him.  Hes awesome.

Chirs Ivorys lament as he fades and gets hurt and slows down at the end of each year.

[ScarletKnight89]

4 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

What reason do we have to disbelieve it? He was a scout by trade. He made some good picks and some bad picks as a GM. We made some good and some bad (ranging from great to disastrous) as the lead scout under Tannenbaum as well.

But clearly you don't hate him, from your tone. The better question might be why you refer to Jets fans as people other than yourself, as though you're not part of this group.  

Exactly, he made some good picks and bad picks like most scouts do. He was around for quite a few terrible ones though. Trading our first round pick for Doug Jolley and drafting a kicker in the 2^nd round. The Robertson trade up. Mark Sanchez and Vernon Gholston at 6 and 5 in back to back years.

 

The Gholston and Sanchez picks set us back so many years. You can’t strikeout in the top 6 in back to back years. Bradway, Tannenbaum, Rex, Mangini, they are all responsible for that.

[joewilly]

We can talk about what we should have done since 2008  in another thread. I love the way Forte never misses a hole & doesn't take many hits head on. I would have liked to have seen more bilal powell in week 1 4th quarter. I do think we'll see more of him on an as needed basis as the coaches see fit. For now, play Forte as long as needed to win games. his condition won't much matter come week 15 if we're 6-8

[Integrity28]

31 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Perhaps with a dose of Chan wanting to make use of his shiny new toy as much as possible?

Nah, I think that's a silly way to term it. Forte has been one of the best all-purpose RBs in football in the past decade. I think this entire coaching staff, top to bottom, prefers putting the ball in the hands of well-established veterans. You can see the staff taking baby-steps in real time, towards trusting younger guys, when you see Jalin Marshall out on the field as the #4 WR instead of last year... when it was Kenbrell Thompkins. 

They are giving the ball to the guys they trust the most, because they know how important every win is going to be. It's got nothing to do with Chan having a "shiny new toy". He's not a novice coordinator who is going to fixate on a guy/position. Last year they fed Ivory early and often too. This is what the offense they WANT to run looks like. By mid-season last year we'd lost the ability to have that dimension because Ivory was hurting, Powell was missing games, and everyone else sucked. 

I think they'll balance things out, from a distribution stand-point, especially after seeing AD get hurt.

[Joe W. Namath]

Forte is our number 1 back and being used as such.  Powell is our number 2 back and plays when the number 1 needs a blow.  

If forte is feeling good you play him.  What a bunch of wussies around here worrying about players getting hurt.

Forte will let bowles know if he needs to come out a bit more.  Hes a smart guy.  Until then, feed the beast and stop whining.

[SoFlaJets]

5 hours ago, JiF said:

This.  30+ touches a game is too much and not necessary.  Powell is very capable of doing everything Forte has done so far.

 

JiF is right, why is it that they use RB's now like mules and then when they are worn down just send them out to pasture or shoot them. Why aren't they giving Powell at least 10 carries and 3-5 pass attempts a game? Is the plan to use Forte until he breaks down and THEN use Bilal? Running backs used to be treated like thoroughbreds not mules and they paid dividends-for years and years. This era of the passer is ruining this game-plus there are only like two or three passers out there worth anything anymore and 1 of them is suspended :>) <----happy Jimmy

[shevys]

6 hours ago, HoustonJet said:

I'm concerned about him getting overused early, injuries etc (see Ivory 2015). Give Powell more carries, he's faster/quicker and a good change of pace.

Yes, Bowles has been rather Herm-like in his overusing his RB thus far this season. That won't bode well for the end of the year.