Mangold can't stay

[Integrity28]

1 hour ago, Villain The Foe said:

Sure you can, generally. But why are we looking to draft a qb after drafting Hack in the 2nd last season? If he needs further development then fine but use the high draft picks on the Oline, the cap on a free agent qb like Glennon, and mid-to-late round picks on another qb IF Petty is useless. 

Generally I agree with you, but specifically with the jets, the already have 3 QB's on rookie deals and will most likely lose 1 that they never built anything around...and when they did decided to squander it on Fitz. Even with that, that was only with wide receivers but nothing at the Oline outside of carpenter. 

The Oline imo is more important at this point because they have atleast have 1 qb that this franchise has invested in. Drafting a qb high basically throws away our 2nd round pick last year as well as passing on a top lineman.

Your first post was a generalization. This follow-up with the Jets-specific context moves us out of generalizations... and I don't disagree with you at all.

I think casual fans yell for a QB, because that's their role. I don't believe Jets are as intent on looking QB as fans are. Don't worry.

[Jetster]

10 minutes ago, Savage69 said:

Well they resigned Kyle Friend to the PS again I don't know if he'll ever make it in the Pro's but he a really strong dude..

 

http://www.nfl.com/draft/2016/profiles/kyle-friend?id=2556120

With Mangold on IR they had to bring in a backup for Johnson. Dozier hasn't had enough snaps at center & they need him backing up every other position.

[Pac]

2 hours ago, Integrity28 said:

Hold onto this moment forever and ever, and maybe one day... you'll become princess of all the land.

I accept your apology and admission that your position, like your hairdo, is idiotic.

[varjet]

While not intending to imply a dual standard, I don't think it wise to go all youngsters on offense.  It will be harder to develop the QBs, WRs and young OL if the entire unit is trying to learn.

That being said, given the numbers game, Enunwa's development and high contracts, I don't know whether both of Decker and Marshall and needed or affordable.  They each offer positives and negatives, and FWIW, all of the developing WRs would be worse if Marshall was not attracting the opponent's best corner, even if that corner covered him completely.  But Marshall is not helping the QBs develop if he drops the ball (and Decker is not if he is on IR).   So one should stay, I don't know which one, and if they cut both, quite possibly adding another veteran, I would not complain.  It is also fair to note that even great college WRs typically need an adjustment to the NFL-this is not a position that they can draft to get better in 2017, and they won't know if Petty and Hack can play if no one can catch the ball.

The won't know if Petty or Hack can play if they have no time or blockers either.  If Clady and Mangold got paid 1/2 and played 8+ games next year and added stability, that is not necessarily a bad thing.   How many new OL can you add in a given year?  Why was Breno on the team this year?  In any event, if they drafted 2 OL relatively high, signed Whitworth or another hold the fort guy, and then kept and resigned the best of the rest, that is not necessarily bad.  From where the Jets stand today, rebuilding their line is a 2-3 year project, so if Clady and/or Mangold worked out all off season, bringing them back cheap is not a horrible idea.

But other than signing a good young CB so that the defense was not a complete disaster, I would go young on D.   If a player is not in the plans for 2018 and beyond, cut them

[Jetster]

2 to 3 years to build the online? Pats do it ever year (scarnechia is great!) helps having Brady back there, but you can build a starting oline next year.

Sign 1 free agent LT, we're gonna have a ton of money cutting the dead weight. Draft the best LT/RT in this years draft & start him at RT, maybe trade Sheldon to Dallas for Ron Leary, they can't pay that entire line & Fredrick and Smith? their LT just made the pro bowl.

Carpenter- Johnson-Leary is a good start (Free agent LT & a stud top tackle in the 2017 draft and start him at RT. Bam- done.

[August]

I'm down for moving on from veterans like Mangold. It's time to develop some young players for the future. Wesley Johnson has been solid at the position, Brandon Shell looked promising in his first start, Winters has been good, Carpenter is good, we just need to draft a LT in the 2nd round and have guys like Ijalana, Qvale etc compete for spots on the line next year. 

[Matt39]

4 hours ago, southparkcpa said:

THIS. History is a great measuring stick and history tells us FITZ sucks.  yet our weak minded management team is unwilling to do a rebuild so we get stuck with the REAL Fitz.    

Maccagnan went all in. The other 3 QB's on the roster are still worse than Fitz. Petty had looked like sh*t. Geno looked like sh*t and got hurt taki his signature Stupid sack. The idea that his season isn't awful if Fitz isn't brought back is silly.

[varjet]

1 hour ago, Jetster said:

2 to 3 years to build the online? Pats do it ever year (scarnechia is great!) helps having Brady back there, but you can build a starting oline next year.

Sign 1 free agent LT, we're gonna have a ton of money cutting the dead weight. Draft the best LT/RT in this years draft & start him at RT, maybe trade Sheldon to Dallas for Ron Leary, they can't pay that entire line & Fredrick and Smith? their LT just made the pro bowl.

Carpenter- Johnson-Leary is a good start (Free agent LT & a stud top tackle in the 2017 draft and start him at RT. Bam- done.

It took the Cowboys and Raiders several years to build their lines, but I like your plan.  Switching out SR for Leary would be brilliant-I can see Jerry doing that too.

The problem with this approach is that FA LTs are weak, although Whitworth could potentially HTF.  If Ijalana can platoon maybe with him, and Shell/Qvale and draft pick can play RT, we could be in business.

But here is the mystery-if your team needs OTs desperately, and people say that the tackles are not worthy of a high first round pick, and you pick high in the first round, do you forego a DT to take an OT too early, if you can't trade down?  That is what the Redskins did last year.  I am kinda thinking you may have to.

But if they think Kalil or Whitworth can work, sign them.

[CrazyCarl40]

9 minutes ago, August said:

I'm down for moving on from veterans like Mangold. It's time to develop some young players for the future. Wesley Johnson has been solid at the position, Brandon Shell looked promising in his first start, Winters has been good, Carpenter is good, we just need to draft a LT in the 2nd round and have guys like Ijalana, Qvale etc compete for spots on the line next year. 

Wesley Johnson is a jag. Shell is so raw that he had help on almost every play. Winters is gone. Carpenter is our only solid offensive lineman. Ijalana is a free agent and Qvale doesn't know if he's a guard or tackle and wasn't good enough to win the RT job outright and was replaced by Breno when he came back. This line is in shambles and any thoughts of promise or hope for the unit are misguided. Nobody on the line is dominant, not many of them start or play for other teams. Period.

[Warfish]

4 hours ago, Pac said:

How awesome is it that Fitzy's biggest cheerleaders - Mangold, Decker, and Marshall, are all on the chopping block.

a few of us tried to warn you but noooo...  you wanted the conquering hero.  Well how's that taste?

The teams abject failure this year tastes like sh*t.

Apparently it tastes pretty good to you, since you get to be semi-right on the Internet and gloat about it.

Of course, you fail to note that our other option, Geno, failed as well.  And you fail to note our best unit, the Defense, has been amongst the worst in the NFL.

But huy, keep showing us all that being right about Fitzpatrick is more important to your happiness than a winning Jets season.

 

On the topic, Mangold will reneg. his deal, and won't be going anywhere.  He's still the best O-lineman on this team, and the least of our O-line problems.  I like Johnson, but he's not nearly as good as Mangold yet, and clearly needs work on learning and calling protections.

[Jetster]

16 minutes ago, varjet said:

It took the Cowboys and Raiders several years to build their lines, but I like your plan.  Switching out SR for Leary would be brilliant-I can see Jerry doing that too.

The problem with this approach is that FA LTs are weak, although Whitworth could potentially HTF.  If Ijalana can platoon maybe with him, and Shell/Qvale and draft pick can play RT, we could be in business.

But here is the mystery-if your team needs OTs desperately, and people say that the tackles are not worthy of a high first round pick, and you pick high in the first round, do you forego a DT to take an OT too early, if you can't trade down?  That is what the Redskins did last year.  I am kinda thinking you may have to.

But if they think Kalil or Whitworth can work, sign them.

Did you see that Scherff made the Pro Bowl? Was not a bad pick. Leo is better but it wasn't like the difference between Ha Ha Clinton Dix & our scrub Pryor.

[SR24]

This game is won in the trenches its as easy as that, it will be hard for us to develop a qb behind a horrendus line. I like the idea of Glennon Petty and Hack but we've got to protect these guys the oline depth in free agency is decent and the draft lacks elite oline talent not sure how we're gonna do it. Its time to sell them off the distractions and get back to the old style Jets offense. Ground and pound the ball. Draft a corner with the first pick then oline 2nd and 3rd round add a lineman via free agency and spend the rest of the cap room on the secondary

[Jetster]

16 minutes ago, CrazyCarl40 said:

Wesley Johnson is a jag. Shell is so raw that he had help on almost every play. Winters is gone. Carpenter is our only solid offensive lineman. Ijalana is a free agent and Qvale doesn't know if he's a guard or tackle and wasn't good enough to win the RT job outright and was replaced by Breno when he came back. This line is in shambles and any thoughts of promise or hope for the unit are misguided. Nobody on the line is dominant, not many of them start or play for other teams. Period.

LOL! This is EXACTLY how Jet fans viewed Jonathon Goodwin! Then he went on to be the Saints center. Jets 2002-2005, Saints 2006-2010 (Pro Bowl 2009, Super Bowl Champion, 2X Madden Most Valuable Protectors award 2009-2012. But CrazyCarl40 has called it already with Wesley Johnson... Jag after 7 starts whole starts in his career. He MAY be a Jag, but none of you have any idea yet. Typical Jet fans, not ALL-PRO in 5 starts? BUST! I bet you I can go back to old threads & find tons of Quincy Enunwa sucks, is a Jag, just cut him, 7th rounder, give me a freaking break already.

[CrazyCarl40]

12 minutes ago, Jetster said:

LOL! This is EXACTLY how Jet fans viewed Jonathon Goodwin! Then he went on to be the Saints center. Jets 2002-2005, Saints 2006-2010 (Pro Bowl 2009, Super Bowl Champion, 2X Madden Most Valuable Protectors award 2009-2012. But CrazyCarl40 has called it already with Wesley Johnson... Jag after 7 starts whole starts in his career. He MAY be a Jag, but none of you have any idea yet. Typical Jet fans, not ALL-PRO in 5 starts? BUST! I bet you I can go back to old threads & find tons of Quincy Enunwa sucks, is a Jag, just cut him, 7th rounder, give me a freaking break already.

Yes. The Steelers usually outright release hall of fame caliber players in the same year they were drafted. If Mangold wasn't hurt, the guy wouldn't even be playing. He's an average player. He's easily replaceable. Not sure why you're comparing him to Goodwin who was replaced by a much better player in Mangold. If the Jets can get a much better center than Johnson, then they should.

Also, Enunwa was drafted in the 6th round and didn't see the field until 2015 when he showed some good things. I'd love to see you dig up some threads about him. Not many people label a 6th round player a bust, even after they get suspended for 4 games.

[Jetster]

5 minutes ago, CrazyCarl40 said:

Yes. The Steelers usually outright release hall of fame caliber players in the same year they were drafted. If Mangold wasn't hurt, the guy wouldn't even be playing. He's an average player. He's easily replaceable. Not sure why you're comparing him to Goodwin who was replaced by a much better player in Mangold. If the Jets can get a much better center than Johnson, then they should.

Also, Enunwa was drafted in the 6th round and didn't see the field until 2015 when he showed some good things. I'd love to see you dig up some threads about him. Not many people label a 6th round player a bust, even after they get suspended for 4 games.

Look, Mangold WAS a good player, he also in 2009 got to play alongside a veritable whos who Pro Bowl caliber Olineman, DBrick, Fanaca, Moore & Woody. Mawae was way more versatile than Mangold & played when you weren't allowed to hold on every freaking play inside. These guys are centers, remember that, Pouncy was out for Miami last week, why didn't we overpower their backup weak azz center & win the game? Because Center is not the end all to the NFL oline anymore. And certainly not with paying a 32 year old center 9 million freaking dollars.

[RutgersJetFan]

Mangold's number should be retired the second that man retires. Brick's probably should too but I have a feeling that'll take some time. I'm a little surprised they haven't honored Mawae in any way either.

[Pac]

59 minutes ago, Warfish said:

The teams abject failure this year tastes like sh*t.

Apparently it tastes pretty good to you, since you get to be semi-right on the Internet and gloat about it.

Of course, you fail to note that our other option, Geno, failed as well.  And you fail to note our best unit, the Defense, has been amongst the worst in the NFL.

But huy, keep showing us all that being right about Fitzpatrick is more important to your happiness than a winning Jets season.

 

On the topic, Mangold will reneg. his deal, and won't be going anywhere.  He's still the best O-lineman on this team, and the least of our O-line problems.  I like Johnson, but he's not nearly as good as Mangold yet, and clearly needs work on learning and calling protections.

Your weak attempts at Jedi Mind tricks don't work with me, my friend.

I got ridiculed for months for my opinions on Fitz and Geno.  Now that some of us have been proven so overwhelmingly correct, we're entitled to an occasional "I told you so" post.

The rest of your tripe about me preferring being right to a winning season is nothing more than a bunch of gobbledygook.

Good day, sir.

[Savage69]

21 minutes ago, RutgersJetFan said:

Mangold's number should be retired the second that man retires. Brick's probably should too but I have a feeling that'll take some time. I'm a little surprised they haven't honored Mawae in any way either.

If it was up to Jet fans there wouldn't be any numbers left for the team to wear..LOL

[RutgersJetFan]

7 minutes ago, Savage69 said:

If it was up to Jet fans there wouldn't be any numbers left for the team to wear..LOL

They should Lamont Jordan's jersey while they're at it.

[CanadaSteve]

11 minutes ago, Pac said:

Your weak attempts at Jedi Mind tricks don't work with me, my friend.

I got ridiculed for months for my opinions on Fitz and Geno.  Now that some of us have been proven so overwhelmingly correct, we're entitled to an occasional "I told you so" post.

The rest of your tripe about me preferring being right to a winning season is nothing more than a bunch of gobbledygook.

Good day, sir.

Sorry, right about Geno and Fitz in what way?  That they blow donkey turds?

[Larz]

4 hours ago, j4jets said:

No he doesn't. 

Cutting him before breaking in a young  QB is profoundly stupid 

[Warfish]

39 minutes ago, Pac said:

Your weak attempts at Jedi Mind tricks don't work with me, my friend.

I got ridiculed for months for my opinions on Fitz and Geno.  

Everyone on both sides got "ridiculed" for their views on Geno and Fitz.

Newsflash, both sides of the Fan divide were flat out dead wrong, Fitz failed, and Geno failed.  

People making excuses for either at this point simply cannot admit they were wrong.  And I for one have widely and openly admitted I was wrong on Fitz.

No one was "right".  Both guys suck and both guys are gone.

39 minutes ago, Pac said:

Now that some of us have been proven so overwhelmingly correct, we're entitled to an occasional "I told you so" post.

You can do whatever you like.  

39 minutes ago, Pac said:

The rest of your tripe about me preferring being right to a winning season is nothing more than a bunch of gobbledygook.

When it walks and talks like a Duck.......maybe in the middle of patting yourself on the back for being "right", maybe it wouldn't look so odd if you acted like Fitz's failure bothered you more because we lost than it pleased you for being "right".

[Jetsplayer21]

If he wants to play next yr, im sure he would take a pay cut. He isn't Mevis selfish.. We need his leadership on a young patch work line we are going to piece together next yr

[hmhertz]

Dakota Dozier. Dozier was a 2014 draft pick, if you cant get on the field after 3 seasons then you need to find work elsewhere.

 

Dozier played this week and played well replacing an injured Winters.

The interior of the line Winters, Johnson,Carpenter has played  nicely since Mangold left.

Shell was OK considering it was his first start

 

 

[j4jets]

23 minutes ago, Larz said:

NOT cutting him before breaking in a young  QBs collarbone is profoundly stupid 

Fixed it for ya. 

[j4jets]

Mangold is 32 years old. He is not a $9mil Center. $5mil max. Take the paycut, or take a hike. 

[Larz]

41 minutes ago, j4jets said:

Fixed it for ya. 

lets be real.  the jets don't have a franchise QB and are not winning anything in the next 5 years, so all of the hand wringing and plotting and cutting and trading plans is pure mental masturbation

lets show some class and not cut a ring of honor player 

I would not extend him, but it's up to him to retire or play his final year

 

[joewilly12]

Id like to have Mangold back but as far as I'm concerned he can ride the rail out of town with Decker, Marshall and Fitzpatrick they are partly to blame for this disastrous season. 

 

[Villain The Foe]

6 hours ago, Jetster said:

Why keep any veteran player that's not "on board" per se. Veterans aren't stupid, this team has zero chance next year.

I havent seen anything that indicates that Brandon Marshall isnt "on board". He had a bad year, but its not like he's snapchatting his friend talking about "**** this game" lol. Sheldon is wild for that by the way 

At the end of the day, you want to keep a #1 WR to be a reliable target for your young QB. For you being a fan of a team that has been absolutely deprived of respectable targets for years, it isnt wise to then release/cut/trade a #1 WR. Besides, its not like we absolutely must play him. For example, if another guy steps up and is able to take that spot then you can put Marshall at #2 for example. But Marshall has been nothing but a professional from what I've seen. Everything stated about Marshall in the past (Broncos & Bears), I've seen none of the negative stuff come from him. As far as im concerned he's a good Jet that has gotten along with the other guys at his position and is still the best WR on this team. 

This team has zero chance every year historically, if we think like that then there was no reason to originally trade for him 2 years ago in the first place. 

[Villain The Foe]

6 hours ago, PepPep said:

EVERYONE...

Decker is NOT injury prone. Stop with this nonsense already. A guy gets a season ending injury and he is automatically labeled injury prone. This is asinine. Milliner was injury prone. He had multiple surgeries in college and could barely get on the field in the pros. Decker is a big receiver who knows how to get open, has good hands and can play outside or in the slot. He is critical to the Jets offense and it makes absolutely no sense to cut him. Marshall is still very very good as well. All of this locker room 'bad leader' talk is BS. Stop it already. You don't know how the players or the coaches view Decker as far as the locker room goes. He is FAR from the type of distractions we see in the NFL these days. Just stop with the nonsense. Cutting Marshall only makes sense b/c of the huge cap savings, his age, and teh fact that the Jets have some nice young WRs with potential. Otherwise, he is still the #1 WR on a lot of NFL teams, including the Jets. 'He had some drops and seems to not care'- WHAT???? THAT'S the reasoning for cutting him. STOP IT ALREADY. 

Decker career games played:

2010: 14

2011: 16

2012: 16

2013: 16

2014: 15

2015: 15

2016: 3

Sheesh, just look it up and stop talking out of your ARSES. 

Rant over. I love you all. 

Just because you said that in CAPS doesnt make it true. 

Eric Decker Played the entire 2014 season injured with a hammy injury aggravated in the preseason. He played injured and pulled himself out of multiple games because of the injury and was limited in the majority of those games due to the injury. 2015 he was fine, 2016...well, we all know what happened. 

 

Eric Decker has been injury prone as a Jet. I dont care what happened before 2014, though I will say that he fell to the 3rd round of the 2010 draft because of a Lisfranc injury which required surgery. 

 

Love you too. 

[Randy Rasmussen]

Mangold is 32 years old. He is not a $9mil Center. $5mil max. Take the paycut, or take a hike. 

I've always liked Mangold probably my favorite Jet in the last decade. But if he comes back next year by restructuring his contract there should be a clause that he has to lose a few pounds in it.


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[Integrity28]

5 hours ago, Pac said:

I accept your apology and admission that your position, like your hairdo, is idiotic.

Your comebacks are on par with joewilly12 hot takes.

[j4jets]

56 minutes ago, Larz said:

lets be real.  the jets don't have a franchise QB and are not winning anything in the next 5 years, so all of the hand wringing and plotting and cutting and trading plans is pure mental masturbation

lets show some class and not cut a ring of honor player 

I would not extend him, but it's up to him to retire or play his final year

 

All the more reasons to cut him then. And it takes one good QB to turn the franchise around IMMEDIATELY. 

[joewilly12]

Just now, Integrity28 said:

Your comebacks are on par with joewilly12 hot takes.

Dont hate brother Jets fan if you don't agree ignore wasting too much time trying to show you the way, peace be with you. 

[drdetroit]

Cut Mangold and Clady

Sign AQ Shipley and Andrew Whitworth

 

LT: Whitworth

LG: Carpenter

C: Shipley

RG: Dozier

RT: Shell/Qvale