" Eric Decker could join the exodus of Jets veterans " ~ ~ ~

[pointman]

They're not cutting Pryor. But all these cuts are sure going to make our "Major League" like starting roster interesting.

[kelly]

Just now, pointman said:

They're not cutting Pryor. But all these cuts are sure going to make our "Major League" like starting roster interesting.

 

[Villain The Foe]

47 minutes ago, rammagen said:

I admit wide receivers matter and again look at the young receivers we have and then compare them to the receivers on the roster when Geno was throwing...which group would you want. there is better talent there, fitz had a crap yr and played way over his head the yr before but then again no one esp me said fitz made his receivers better...or did I miss something or maybe you read way to deep into what I wrote. I was basically sayin we need a qb that makes his receivers better (a great/very good qb does that)  even questioned if that player is on the roster. No one is saying Josh McCown is a great qb, either so I understand your example but who would you rather have a Big Ben, or a Brady or Josh McCown?

Look at the rceivers they have thrown to sure they had great receivers but they also took decent receivers and made them better and that is what I want a Qb a leader that makes players around him better

I wouldnt say I read too deep into what you said. You basically crapped on Geno and then made a statement that QB's can only make WR's better and not the other way around in an effort to support your crapping on Geno. I just wanted to present to you that not only is that not true, but I wanted to show that having some respectable targets can help out any QB and I gave you two examples of "actual" crappy quarterbacks. 

Not saying that Geno isnt crappy, he certainly hasnt done anything to rave over, but with that said...I'd rather take Quincey Enunwa, Robbie Anderson, Charone Peake, Jalin Marshall and Devin Smith over Santonio HOlmes, Stephen Hill, Clyde Gates, Ryan Spadola Jeremy Kerley and an injury prone Eric Decker. 

[Lupz27]

Love how all of Ryan sh*tzpatricks posse is going bye ?, Don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out.

[Matthew007b]

man there's going to be a huge discount on Jets jersey's.. now all you gotta do is bring back the old 90's uniforms and logo (I wish..) and you're going to have store owners jumping from buildings..

[Integrity28]

6 minutes ago, Lupz27 said:

Love how all of Ryan sh*tzpatricks posse is going bye ?, Don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out.

Part of me wonders if the crew that basically tantrum forced the Jets to re-sign Fitz, is also the contingency of players that threatened to quit on the season if he got benched early on. Essentially holding the team hostage. In which case, I totally understand the locker room issues, and really can't put it all on the HC. There's only so much a coach can do, but when you get that many veteran starters aligned against what you want to do, it's a tough spot.

Oh well, we'll never get the full story.

[hawk]

3 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Cutting Decker saves $7.25m of cap space, not $5.75m.

Salary this year is 7.25 but there is two years on signing bonus that will escalate for 3 million in dead money.  Savings would be 5.25 million.

[Sperm Edwards]

33 minutes ago, hawk said:

Salary this year is 7.25 but there is two years on signing bonus that will escalate for 3 million in dead money.  Savings would be 5.25 million.

No. The savings is $7.25m because they wouldn't be paying him his $7.25m salary.

The $3m you speak of - presently amortized as $1.5m per year this year and next year - is a sunk cost because it was already paid to him back in 2014. If you have all $3m accelerate to this year's cap then that also means there's $1.5m that doesn't hit next year's cap. They don't have to eat the full accelerated $3m amount and still count $1.5m next year anyway. Moving an extra $1.5m sunk cost from 1 year to the next is not an actual savings. 

If they add a new FA at $10m this year and $10m next year (assume both years guaranteed) tell me how much cap space is saved by structuring the cap hits as $8.5m this year and 11.5m next year. Hint: the answer is zero. If they decide to have Decker's last $1.5m hit this year they'll just structure that new FAs contract so it's $8.5m this year and $11.5 next year. If they make him a June 1 cut it's $10m and $10m. Either way, the combination of the two players' hits is $11.5m this year and $11.5m next year.

Zero difference. The savings is whatever new/additional money they decide not to pay him: $7.25m.

[Charlie Brown]

6 hours ago, sirlancemehlot said:

We owe Idzik an apology

This would be definitely true if he had drafted better!!

[Tinstar]

2 minutes ago, Charlie Brown said:

This would be definitely true if he had drafted better!!

It was not his fault . The man was a numbers cruncher and he was darn good at it as was evident by the millions he saved by not signing players to stupid contracts . The people he surrounded himself with who were supposed to assist him with talent evaluating and the terrible HC who was allowed to make choices did him a dis-service .  I still believe that even that didn't get him fired, but that press conference he could not come back from . The entire league realize what he was, and it's a stink he will never be able to wash off .

[JetFaninMI]

Until it happens its just speculation. I don't think they would have made the cuts they've made and keep him though. If they keep him it's probably a sign they are doing it to help out the inexperienced QB they will put on the field be it someone they have on the roster now or if they draft or sign one.

[hawk]

6 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

No. The savings is $7.25m because they wouldn't be paying him his $7.25m salary.

The $3m you speak of - presently amortized as $1.5m per year this year and next year - is a sunk cost because it was already paid to him back in 2014. If you have all $3m accelerate to this year's cap then that also means there's $1.5m that doesn't hit next year's cap. They don't have to eat the full accelerated $3m amount and still count $1.5m next year anyway. Moving an extra $1.5m sunk cost from 1 year to the next is not an actual savings. 

If they add a new FA at $10m this year and $10m next year (assume both years guaranteed) tell me how much cap space is saved by structuring the cap hits as $8.5m this year and 11.5m next year. Hint: the answer is zero. If they decide to have Decker's last $1.5m hit this year they'll just structure that new FAs contract so it's $8.5m this year and $11.5 next year. If they make him a June 1 cut it's $10m and $10m. Either way, the combination of the two players' hits is $11.5m this year and $11.5m next year.

Zero difference. The savings is whatever new/additional money they decide not to pay him: $7.25m.

You're right, new cash money would be 7.25 million.  His current cap hit is 8.75, 7.25 plus 1.5 prorated bonus. Cap savings is 5.75 million.  This year's 1.5 and next year's 1.5 prorated money does accelerate to this year unless they designate him a post June 1 cut, which would be foolish.  

 

[Sperm Edwards]

21 minutes ago, hawk said:

You're right, new cash money would be 7.25 million.  His current cap hit is 8.75, 7.25 plus 1.5 prorated bonus. Cap savings is 5.75 million.  This year's 1.5 and next year's 1.5 prorated money does accelerate to this year unless they designate him a post June 1 cut, which would be foolish.  

 

It's neither wise nor foolish. It would make no difference whatsoever.

If they push it off to next year it means there will be $1.5m more space this year (which I'm presuming you believe they shouldn't need, as it's more useful to them next year). Well, all Maccagnan would have to do is keep it in his pants and not spend every red cent available (plus some of next year's) for a change. Leave that $1.5m unspent this year and that space will then get pushed forward to next year. So then in 2018 they'll have that extra "dead" $1.5m on the cap, but their spending ceiling will be $1.5m higher due to the unused 2017 money pushed to 2018. The amount of cap room available to spend in 2018 would be identical.

Mathematically, it makes no difference. None. They save $7.25m by cutting Decker in 2017.

[rammagen]

8 hours ago, Villain The Foe said:

I wouldnt say I read too deep into what you said. You basically crapped on Geno and then made a statement that QB's can only make WR's better and not the other way around in an effort to support your crapping on Geno. I just wanted to present to you that not only is that not true, but I wanted to show that having some respectable targets can help out any QB and I gave you two examples of "actual" crappy quarterbacks. 

Not saying that Geno isnt crappy, he certainly hasnt done anything to rave over, but with that said...I'd rather take Quincey Enunwa, Robbie Anderson, Charone Peake, Jalin Marshall and Devin Smith over Santonio HOlmes, Stephen Hill, Clyde Gates, Ryan Spadola Jeremy Kerley and an injury prone Eric Decker. 

again sorry you misread I am saying I would rather have a qb that makes receivers better for this team,  yes I crapped on geno because he regressed and never improved core areas of his game like not forcing the ball and reading defenses and making decisions, i also said fits had a great yr but he was nothing more then a stop gap and he did not make his receivers better either, I gave examples of two actual crappy qbs that were on the Jets...then I gave examples of what I would want the front office to find

read what I said in context below...you gave McCown as an example and I returned back with what would you rather have another McCnown or Geno/fitz or try to get the next brady or Big ben? Your hooked up on the receivers. I want to find a qb that will make the players around him better. lets see if that qb is on the roster first if not then the front office has a pretty hard task to do that is to find that player while building a winner through the draft. Which is the one way you find those types of qbs.

My point to JW was the receivers we are cutting do not leave us depleted of talent even in your reply you agree you would rather have this group over the group Geno threw too.

I admit wide receivers matter and again look at the young receivers we have and then compare them to the receivers on the roster when Geno was throwing...which group would you want. there is better talent there, fitz had a crap yr and played way over his head the yr before but then again no one esp me said fitz made his receivers better...or did I miss something or maybe you read way to deep into what I wrote. I was basically sayin we need a qb that makes his receivers better (a great/very good qb does that)  even questioned if that player is on the roster. No one is saying Josh McCown is a great qb, either so I understand your example but who would you rather have a Big Ben, or a Brady or Josh McCown?

[Villain The Foe]

3 hours ago, rammagen said:

again sorry you misread I am saying I would rather have a qb that makes receivers better for this team,  yes I crapped on geno because he regressed and never improved core areas of his game like not forcing the ball and reading defenses and making decisions, i also said fits had a great yr but he was nothing more then a stop gap and he did not make his receivers better either, I gave examples of two actual crappy qbs that were on the Jets...then I gave examples of what I would want the front office to find

read what I said in context below...you gave McCown as an example and I returned back with what would you rather have another McCnown or Geno/fitz or try to get the next brady or Big ben? Your hooked up on the receivers. I want to find a qb that will make the players around him better. lets see if that qb is on the roster first if not then the front office has a pretty hard task to do that is to find that player while building a winner through the draft. Which is the one way you find those types of qbs.

My point to JW was the receivers we are cutting do not leave us depleted of talent even in your reply you agree you would rather have this group over the group Geno threw too.

I admit wide receivers matter and again look at the young receivers we have and then compare them to the receivers on the roster when Geno was throwing...which group would you want. there is better talent there, fitz had a crap yr and played way over his head the yr before but then again no one esp me said fitz made his receivers better...or did I miss something or maybe you read way to deep into what I wrote. I was basically sayin we need a qb that makes his receivers better (a great/very good qb does that)  even questioned if that player is on the roster. No one is saying Josh McCown is a great qb, either so I understand your example but who would you rather have a Big Ben, or a Brady or Josh McCown?

Underlining paragraphs and saying that I misread something doesnt make it true. I never said that you said that Fitz made the WR's better, I said that Fitz (and McCown) both benefited from having probowl quality WR's...something that you said in a general sense doesnt happen given that QB's can only make WR's better and not the other way around. 

2ndly, Saying that Geno regressed seems suspect given that Geno has only played 2 full seasons in his career which was his first 2 season. Ironically in Geno's second season he improved his completion percentage from 56% to 60%, his TD amount by one from 12 to 13 though playing in 2 less games his 2nd year...and he cut his INT's almost in half from throwing 21 his rookie season to 13 his second. His total quarterback rating went from a 46 to a 50 and his QBR went from a 67 to a 78. 

And whats further ironic is that Geno's 2nd season was during the purging of the team by John Idzik. 

 

I'll leave it here, given that you'll continue to defend poor comments that are indefensible. The bottomline is that McCown and Fitz proved your blanket QB/WR relationship incorrect and Geno's statistical progression while cutting his INT's in half all while in the mist of a player purge dismisses your regression statement as well. 

[BurnleyJet]

14 hours ago, Villain The Foe said:

Thats not true. You know how/why Josh McCown got the starting job in Tampa back in 2014? Because in 2013 he was throwing to Alshon Jeffery, a season in which Jeffery had over 1,400 receiving yards and multiple games where he went over 200 yards receiving. 

 

He left and went to Tampa and looked like the guy we always knew he was. Meanwhile, the season that got him his job just so happened to be Alshon Jeffery's first season as a probowler. 

 

This "A good Qb makes his receivers better not the other way around" isnt as true as you'd like to portray it. 2013 was the first season that McCown had a QB rating of over 74 in a season. He was a 10 year vet heading into 2014 and the Bucs allowed 1 season with a probowl WR to force their hand. As we all know, the rest was history. 

 

sh*t, look at what just happened in 2015 with Ryan Fitzpatrick. 2016 Decker gets hurt and Marshall isnt the same guy and Fitz goes from "Fitzmagic" to throwing 6 INT's in a f'ing game. I mean, fitz goes from having one of the best seasons ever by a Jets QB to having arguably the worst single season in Jets history. Only Elite/true franchise QB's can just make their WR's better. 

 

WR's matter bro, atleast more than you'd like to admit. 

Josh McCown, really, a good QB?

Brady's been throwing to white slow, midgets for years. The guy Wins the Super Bowl every other year.

QB is undoubtedly the most important postion on the team. Having a Star WR is great, but how many Superbowls did Megatron win? 

[Villain The Foe]

9 minutes ago, BurnleyJet said:

Josh McCown, really, a good QB?

Brady's been throwing to white slow, midgets for years. The guy Wins the Super Bowl every other year.

QB is undoubtedly the most important postion on the team. Having a Star WR is great, but how many Superbowls did Megatron win? 

I see what you did here. You began reading...drew a conclusion then immediately began your response. 

 

I NEVER said that Josh McCown was a "good QB". Matter of fact, my statement was showing how a scrub QB like McCown was helped by a probowl WR so much that he was actually handed a starting position in Tampa when he left Chicago. 

Go back and follow the conversation and read what I actually said. I didnt doubt what position was the most important on the team nor did I allude to a Star WR being more important than a star QB. I simply said that pretending as if WR's cant help out a QB is a ridiculous statement to make, and then I proceeded to provide a couple examples (McCown/Fitz) to solidify my point. 

 

 

[rammagen]

18 minutes ago, BurnleyJet said:

Josh McCown, really, a good QB?

Brady's been throwing to white slow, midgets for years. The guy Wins the Super Bowl every other year.

QB is undoubtedly the most important postion on the team. Having a Star WR is great, but how many Superbowls did Megatron win? 

we are saying the same thing but you are not understanding me or I am not explaining it well. I never said McCown was a great b so please re-read the post I said Brady was a great qb

 

45 minutes ago, Villain The Foe said:

Underlining paragraphs and saying that I misread something doesnt make it true. I never said that you said that Fitz made the WR's better, I said that Fitz (and McCown) both benefited from having probowl quality WR's...something that you said in a general sense doesnt happen given that QB's can only make WR's better and not the other way around. 

2ndly, Saying that Geno regressed seems suspect given that Geno has only played 2 full seasons in his career which was his first 2 season. Ironically in Geno's second season he improved his completion percentage from 56% to 60%, his TD amount by one from 12 to 13 though playing in 2 less games his 2nd year...and he cut his INT's almost in half from throwing 21 his rookie season to 13 his second. His total quarterback rating went from a 46 to a 50 and his QBR went from a 67 to a 78. 

And whats further ironic is that Geno's 2nd season was during the purging of the team by John Idzik. 

 

I'll leave it here, given that you'll continue to defend poor comments that are indefensible. The bottomline is that McCown and Fitz proved your blanket QB/WR relationship incorrect and Geno's statistical progression while cutting his INT's in half all while in the mist of a player purge dismisses your regression statement as well. 

I am done what ever dude re -read the post is said earlier in the thread in response to you I can understand you point so you are talking in circles

again re-read the below where i said wide receivers matter the thing you keep harping on you are taking out of context. My reply in the original comment was to JW where he said he was thinking we have no talent at the wide receiver position to which I replied that is not true and you agreed to that

[Villain The Foe]

2 minutes ago, rammagen said:

we are saying the same thing but you are not understanding me or I am not explaining it well. I never said McCown was a great b so please re-read the post I said Brady was a great qb

 

I am done what ever dude re -read the post is said earlier in the thread in response to you I can understand you point so you are talking in circles

again re-read the below where i said wide receivers matter the thing you keep harping on you are taking out of context. My reply in the original comment was to JW where he said he was thinking we have no talent at the wide receiver position to which I replied that is not true and you agreed to that

I think I read enough of what you've been saying. 

[Flushing Roots]

18 hours ago, SKILLit said:

If we're going to purge the roster, might as well. Can't stand him and especially his dumb ******* wife

Plus I think his wife may need him at home so he can do the housekeeping.

[kelly]

Rich CiminiESPN Staff Writer 

Jets WR Eric Decker, rumored to be on the chopping block, is safe -- for a few months, anyway. GM Mike Maccagnan, speaking to reporters at the combine, said they won't make a decision on Decker until he has recovered from shoulder and hip surgeries. He said the shoulder still needs a few months to heal. "Our goal is to get him healthy and then kind of evaluate how he comes off the injuries," Maccagnan said. He believes Decker will be ready for Week 1. At this point, he can run straight ahead.

Share

 

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[rammagen]

I don't and I get the feeling you are trolling me for the wrong reasons.. Like I said I am done with the conversation we basically agree but you keep taking my points out of context I keep trying to explain and point them out but you just keep head down and keep posting stuff out of context

[kelly]

Not that the Jets ever really indicated otherwise, but wide receiver Eric Deckerinsisted Tuesday he will be ready for the beginning of training camp, in late July.

Decker, 30, is coming off hip and shoulder surgeries. He played just three games and had nine catches last season, his third with the Jets."I was surprised when people thought I wasn't going to be ready [for camp]," Decker told Newsday at a charity event in Manhattan.The Jets will hold their first organized team activities practice on May 23. It is unclear how much Decker will be able to participate in spring practices, which conclude June 15 with minicamp. 

This is what Jets general manager Mike Maccagnan said about Decker in early March at the NFL Scouting Combine : 

"I think he should be able to compete in most of the OTAs, maybe some non-contact stuff. When we go into training camp, we may restrict him a little bit, just to make sure he's good and ready to go. But he's been making good progress and he should be fine, I think. I anticipate him being ready to start the season, unless there's a setback that we're not aware of."

The final year of Decker's contract is 2018. He has an $8.75 million salary cap figure in 2017 and a $9 million figure in 2018.If the Jets cut Decker after this season, they would create $7.5 million in cap space, with a $1.5 million dead money figure attached. That is entirely possible.But if the Jets cut Decker before this season, and before June 1, they would create $5.75 million in cap space, with $3 million in dead money. 

A third option : If the Jets cut Decker before this season, and after June 1, they would create $7.25 million in 2017 cap space, with $1.5 million in dead money both this year and next year. The Jets are in get-younger, full-on rebuilding mode. At this point in his career, Decker surely isn't part of their long-term future plans, regardless of whether he's around in 2017 or not. 

If Decker does stick around for 2017, he would be the Jets' No. 1 receiver, now that Brandon Marshall is playing for the Giants. 

>     http://www.nj.com/jets/index.ssf/2017/05/jets_eric_decker_insists_he_will_be_ready_for_trai.html#incart_river_index

[thadude]

Dumb

[JohnnyLV]

cut Decker the second he is fully healthy or trade him for a 5th or 6th rounder

[BurnleyJet]

His injuries are not unsubstantial for a WR, hip and shoulder. He seems a little brittle also.

I don't see how they keep him. They just drafted two rookie WR's and have last years UDFA crop, along with Q and Peake. He's a gonner.

[jetrider]

 

 

Quote

 

Eric Decker says he’ll “easily” be ready for camp

Posted by Josh Alper on May 3, 2017, 6:45 AM EDT

Jets wide receiver Eric Decker had hip and shoulder surgeries after being placed on injured reserve last year and there were reports that he might not be ready to go in time for the start of the season as a result.

It looks like that was an overly negative outlook for Decker’s recovery. Decker said Tuesday that he “was surprised” to see those reports and that he’ll “easily” be ready in time for training camp.

“My health is good. I’m back and I’m doing everything right now,” Decker said, via Newsday. “There are no [structural] issues. I’m just getting my strength back. But as far as everything else, I’m a full go.”

In addition to speculation about his health, Decker’s spot on the roster has also come up for discussion. The Jets have rid themselves of many veterans this offseason and Decker’s name has come up as a possible addition to that group. The Jets added two more receivers in the draft, but Decker said he’s only worrying about how hard he works because “everything else takes care of itself.”

 

 

[kelly]

38 minutes ago, johnnysd said:

cut Decker the second he is fully healthy or trade him for a 5th or 6th rounder

if we can get a 5th for him..  grab it &  Runnnnn   

 

 

 

 

cheers ~ ~ 

 

[Il Mostro]

Shoulder and hip surgery int he same off season?  Decker will be more suited to being in a nursing home than on the football field before mid-season. 

[New York Mick]

If I was Decker I'd want to leave. sh*t QB, sh*t Oline, sh*t coaching, zero chance of a super bowl or playoffs. I'd want to go to a team with a #1 receiver and a shot at winning. 

[HessStation]

Decker could potentially help them win a few games this year. Get him the F out~~~~~

[Sperm Edwards]

12 minutes ago, HessStation said:

Decker could potentially help them win a few games this year. Get him the F out~~~~~

Of more importance - if you're Maccagnan - is he'll help get a full picture on Hackenberg.

Given where the team is at right now (and the fact that he's the one who drafted Hackenberg, and where he took him) I'd probably do the exact same thing.

However if he's just going to put Decker out there to help out McCown, then I have no rational answer if (as Woody basically alluded to) they're truly looking beyond this year to seriously contend.

[varjet]

I am sure there is a scientific study on this somewhere, but intuitively it seems like a player really needs the full offseason to train their body for the actual football season.

Players that do not recover and are not in condition by June end up getting hurt again or are not effective.  This is the Devin Smith/Breno problem.

So, notwithstanding the value of having Decker catch passes from the young QBs, if he is still not ready to train and is shoulder is still recovering, I can easily see him not being of much use despite the best of intentions.

In balance, I think the Jets are better off with his cap space then his actually being on the team.

 

[section314]

13 minutes ago, varjet said:

I am sure there is a scientific study on this somewhere, but intuitively it seems like a player really needs the full offseason to train their body for the actual football season.

Players that do not recover and are not in condition by June end up getting hurt again or are not effective.  This is the Devin Smith/Breno problem.

So, notwithstanding the value of having Decker catch passes from the young QBs, if he is still not ready to train and is shoulder is still recovering, I can easily see him not being of much use despite the best of intentions.

In balance, I think the Jets are better off with his cap space then his actually being on the team.

 

Well put. Decker is of no more use to this team.

[Sarge4Tide]

Without Decker, Devin Smith, and Jalin Marshall, a 6 man WR corps would be something like

1. Quincy Enunwa
2. Robbie Anderson
3. Ardarius Stewart
4. Chad Hansen
5. Quinton Patton
6. Charone Peake