And So It Begins ...

[JoJoTownsell1]

1 hour ago, jetspenguin said:

lol thats it.....Rosen is my guy moving forward.....write it down, double stamp, no erasies. They call his personality prickly but honestly he is a tell it like it is kind of guy and his passes are on point. If he has no medical concerns he is PERFECT for the NY area. 

Rosen rubs teammates the wrong way. I won't mind taking him, but he may end up being a cross between Rivers and Cutler. That would still make him the best Qb we've had since Namath, but there are some red flags especially for a kid who will be playing in NY. With that said,  he is infinitely better than all the QBs in this  years draft class and worlds ahead of guys like Goff/Wentz and our boy Hackenburg. 

  

[JoJoTownsell1]

1 hour ago, BCJet said:

Im sorry, but anyone who watched the Penn State-USC game and came away thinking that Darnold needs to "improve deep ball accuracy" doesnt have eyes.  Are there things he can improve on, sure, but to watch a guy at that level of advancement as far as pocket presence and being able to be accurate on the move, I personally see someone worthy of a legit #1 overall pick discussion.

As for the rest of the articles, the biggest reason guys like Barkley were touted as top picks and fell is because ultimately their arm strength isnt enough to make it in the NFL.  Will barkley be a good backup, probably, but he will never have the physical ability to be an upper echelon NFL QB because he doesnt make defenses defend the whole field.  None of these guys have that problem and give that they are all running somewhat Pro-style offenses (especially josh allen) vs 95% of the snaps being in the shotgun or getting plays off a placard on the sideline, makes their learning curve much shorter at this point in their careers.

Looking at potential, these guys all have the size/arm strength box checked at this point in their development and rosen and darnold have the accuracy.  If they continue to develop, especially allen, I dont see how any of them grade out below trubisky or deshaun watson.

There were people that nitpicked Luck also. There will always be contrarians who are looking for clicks or viewers. Considering there are 5 or 6 QBs who could theoretically go at the top of next years draft it will be very interesting to see how they all  handle the pressure this year. 

[Joe the Breadman]

14 hours ago, Lil Woody said:

Darnold, Rosen, Rudolph or Allen may not end up being anything more than say a Stafford, Cutler, Palmer or Flacco respectively.  And of them 2 probably bust or underachieve.  That's still way better than where this years class is likely to end up.  I like Kizer a lot. I doubt he will find success in this league, especially w the Browns.  The rest of those projects leave a hell of a lot to be desired.  Bypassing this bad looking class for one that at the very least suggests you can probably come away with a functional starting QB for the next 10 years or more is still the best way to go.  But then the "journalists" can't just say things that don't elicit a big response.

To be fair I know nothing about Allen. I am looking forward to watching him this season though.

I would take a Stafford or Flacco today

[CanadaSteve]

2 hours ago, JetFaninMI said:

 You cannot justify a second round pick on Hack. Not with the sample size from his college career. Even if he turns out to be a franchise QB he was not a second round pick coming into that years draft.

Okay....by this philosophy, had Tom Brady been picked in the second round, he would not have been worth it, considering he was valued in the 6-7 round area.

GOT IT!

[thadude]

1 hour ago, Powpow said:

And with the our 2nd round pick the NY Jets select Armani Watts S Texas A&M. Consecutive years of taking safeties in round 1 and 2. We're going with a new defensive scheme!  3 DL, 3 LB, 2 CB, and 4 safeties. Ingenious! It's gonna be great!

Brady is quaking in his boots

[thadude]

12 minutes ago, CanadaSteve said:

Okay....by this philosophy, had Tom Brady been picked in the second round, he would not have been worth it, considering he was valued in the 6-7 round area.

GOT IT!

So Hack = Brady

 

GOT IT

[Tinstar]

12 minutes ago, FTL Jet Fan said:

Thanks for posting KRL. It's articles like this that can be a kick in the nuts when you are hoping to have a shot at a franchise QB in 2018. There is no telling how any of these guys will turn out or if they will even declare to come out. I will obviously reserve judgment until the end of the college season on this group. I know many believe we shouldn't have drafted a QB at all this year. I think we should have taken one in the later rounds, be it Peterman, Webb, Kaya, or even Kelly.

If one of these QB's we passed on turns into a top 10-15 guy (which given SOJ logic it will happen) this board will be very entertaining. Hack and Petty are both learning a new offense hopefully we won't need to worry about a QB next year. That is all the optimism I can muster until at least another year.

I can almost assure you that if Rosen doesn't clean up his act before the end of the season, he won't be a target of this regime . I am not entirely convince myself that Sam Darnold has the arm talent to navigate the weather in the cold and windy North east that make up some of the rough AFC cities the Jets have to make it through to get t o the championship . Allen is a gunslinger who can make any throw in any weather condition to any part of the field which makes him perfect for the Jets . The problem is, he's Christian Hackenberg with a better arm and just a little better film. That kid completes 1 out of every 3 passes he attempts .

The reason I liked Trubisky so much is he has everything that is good in all 3 of those prospects and none of their weaknesses . The biggest issue Trubisky had was the unknown because he only started for 1 yr.  I resolved that issue for myself using the he sat behind a starter,  learned the offense he was going to run and when he got his chance, the results were good enough to elevate him to the top of the QB class .

From this group, my target would be Allen, but over the next season he will have to improve his completion percentage to be considered a top 10 pick in the draft . I'm hoping he doesn't so we can get him mid to late 1st . 

[peebag]

5 minutes ago, Tinstar said:

I can almost assure you that if Rosen doesn't clean up his act before the end of the season, he won't be a target of this regime . I am not entirely convince myself that Sam Darnold has the arm talent to navigate the weather in the cold and windy North east that make up some of the rough AFC cities the Jets have to make it through to get t o the championship . Allen is a gunslinger who can make any throw in any weather condition to any part of the field which makes him perfect for the Jets . The problem is, he's Christian Hackenberg with a better arm and just a little better film. That kid completes 1 out of every 3 passes he attempts .

The reason I liked Trubisky so much is he has everything that is good in all 3 of those prospects and none of their weaknesses . The biggest issue Trubisky had was the unknown because he only started for 1 yr.  I resolved that issue for myself using the he sat behind a starter,  learned the offense he was going to run and when he got his chance, the results were good enough to elevate him to the top of the QB class .

From this group, my target would be Allen, but over the next season he will have to improve his completion percentage to be considered a top 10 pick in the draft . I'm hoping he doesn't so we can get him mid to late 1st . 

I've seen Allen play in person.  No thanks.

[Powpow]

1 hour ago, Fantasy Island said:

That would be a 12 men on the field penalty...

We need the extra man?

[Powpow]

1 hour ago, Fantasy Island said:

That would be a 12 men on the field penalty...

LOL my bad correction.... 3 DL 2LB 2 CB 4 safeties. Mac and Cheese ? just love those safeties. 

[chirorob]

1 hour ago, JoJoTownsell1 said:

Rosen rubs teammates the wrong way. I won't mind taking him, but he may end up being a cross between Rivers and Cutler. That would still make him the best Qb we've had since Namath, but there are some red flags especially for a kid who will be playing in NY. With that said,  he is infinitely better than all the QBs in this  years draft class and worlds ahead of guys like Goff/Wentz and our boy Hackenburg.

It's not like Namath never rubbed his team mates the wrong way.

Aikman pissed people off.  Fouts was a total jerk, Rogers rubs people the wrong way. 

[56mehl56]

19 minutes ago, chirorob said:

It's not like Namath never rubbed his team mates the wrong way.

Aikman pissed people off.  Fouts was a total jerk, Rogers rubs people the wrong way. 

Yeah, but they were/are all good.  Rosen -I'm not convinced

[chirorob]

4 minutes ago, 56mehl56 said:

Yeah, but they were/are all good.  Rosen -I'm not convinced

Well, that's the difference.

I don't know Rosen, at all.  I don't care if a QB rubs people the wrong way if he has talent.   A backup, no, he can't.  A legit starter, it's not a problem at all.  If he has the talent, I don't worry about that and I draft him.  If he doesn't, nope.

[bitonti]

Darnold might very well end up 1 overall but he also might need his throwing motion completely retooled. 

As others have noted Rosen is probably off the table for Woody/Gob Bluth-related reasons.

Allen is exciting as others (Lamar Jackson anyone?) but this tank idea is ludicrous.

NFL teams can't tank for a QB when the average career length of your labor is 3 years. 

[JoJoTownsell1]

24 minutes ago, chirorob said:

It's not like Namath never rubbed his team mates the wrong way.

Aikman pissed people off.  Fouts was a total jerk, Rogers rubs people the wrong way. 

A bad attitude is always OK if you are an elite QB. THe question is whether those guys had issues with their teammates in college. Plus it 2017, when small mistakes become huge media distractions. 

I am not anti-rosen, but he needs to show leadership and better judgment this year to be considered a top 5 pick. He certainly has the talent you want to see from a Qb and is a prototypical pocket passer. There is a lot to like about Rosen. But 2018 won't be like 2017 when any QB with a glimmer of talent can vault to the top of the first round. 

[bitonti]

55 minutes ago, Tinstar said:

 The reason I liked Trubisky so much is he has everything that is good in all 3 of those prospects and none of their weaknesses . The biggest issue Trubisky had was the unknown because he only started for 1 yr.   

1

The fact that Trubisky goes 2 means you can put those thoughts out of your mind forever. Cause the Jets didn't pass on him. Fans of Watson and Mahomes II on the other hand will be watching Jamal Adams' career very closely indeed

[56mehl56]

9 minutes ago, bitonti said:

The fact that Trubisky goes 2 means you can put those thoughts out of your mind forever. Cause the Jets didn't pass on him. Fans of Watson and Mahomes II on the other hand will be watching Jamal Adams' career very closely indeed

Fans of Mahomes and Watson will have no choice to watch Adams as he is the only one who will be starting this year.

[JoJoTownsell1]

1 minute ago, bitonti said:

Darnold might very well end up 1 overall but he also might need his throwing motion completely retooled. 

As others have noted Rosen is probably off the table for Woody/Gob Bluth-related reasons.

Allen is exciting as others (Lamar Jackson anyone?) but this tank idea is ludicrous.

NFL teams can't tank for a QB when the average career length of your labor is 3 years. 

Obviously you can't ask your coaching staff to TRY to lose games. That never happens. But the Jets have built a very young team with a questionable vet QB and even more questionable young QBs. Forget the secondary and lack of pass rush. There is a good chance this team will be bad no matter how hard the staff tries. I hope I am wrong and we win 13 games, but it will take a slew of players to have career years or breakout years for this team to be competitive. We will likely be underdogs in just about every game. 

While the window for some players is 3 years the benefit of having a franchise QB for 15 years far outweighs the loss of a year for a few good young players when this team isn't winning anything anyway. Again, if the options were 10-6 or 2-14, I'd take 10-6 (even if we got unlucky and missed the playoffs) but the reality is the options are 7-9 or 2-14. In that case, the year is wasted for these guys anyway, might as well be wasted in an attempt to land a franchise QB. 

[bitonti]

23 minutes ago, 56mehl56 said:

Fans of Mahomes and Watson will have no choice to watch Adams as he is the only one who will be starting this year.

they could go golfing instead. 

[UntouchableCrew]

Darnold is a stud. I stand by it and I want him.

[bitonti]

17 minutes ago, JoJoTownsell1 said:

While the window for some players is 3 years the benefit of having a franchise QB for 15 years far outweighs the loss of a year  

 

It's not their window it's the average career length for all players in the NFL. There's too much churn in this league for a long term rebuilding project to work. Example: The Cleveland Browns are still awful. Getting high draft picks doesn't mean squat. And I love draft picks as much as the next man. But there's no Lebron in next year's draft and there's not even a Luck. 

Side note the so called best player went to USC a place where all their QBs basically bust including Mark Sanchez. 

[JoJoTownsell1]

11 minutes ago, bitonti said:

It's not their window it's the average career length for all players in the NFL. There's too much churn in this league for a long term rebuilding project to work. Example: The Cleveland Browns are still awful. Getting high draft picks doesn't mean squat. And I love draft picks as much as the next man. But there's no Lebron in next year's draft and there's not even a Luck. 

Side note the so called best player went to USC a place where all their QBs basically bust including Mark Sanchez. 

That is just about the worst way to analyze a QB. If Luck had decided to go to USC, you wouldn't have drafted him because of Matt Barkley and Leinart? Not to mention, Carson Palmer went to USC and has been a very good QB.

You wouldn't have drafted Peyton Manning because of Heath Shuler and no other Tennessee QB being good before him? 

Conversely, was Jared Goff's chances of success greater simply because Aaron Rodgers also went to Cal? 

 

[jetspenguin]

3 hours ago, JetFaninMI said:

At the time of the draft he was not a second rounder. He was not rated that high and was a reach at that point. This has been said many times and the Jets were lambasted by the so-called draft experts. It was a reach pick for the second round. That is the point.

Many teams needed QB's that off-season but didn't want to pay sh*tz what he was asking. Mac offered him that 2 year deal and he refused. No team was going to give sh*tz 18mil or the Jets would have lost him. Mac then tried to wait the guy out and look how that turned out. Those are the facts DUDE and no spin or knob polishing post will change them.

Where hack was rated wasnt my point and you know it. You said even if he was a franchise guy he wouldnt have been worth the 2nd rd pick. It doesnt matter what the experts (who are wrong quite a bit) think if he turns out to be the franchise guy

and it also doesnt matter what Fitz was worth to another team, he didnt play there, he played HERE. For this god forsaken franchise where this fool was able to break records and put on an offensive show the likes of which we havent seen since the Vinny days. So HERE he was worth 12 mil as you are worth whatever someone will pay you just like at your job. I actually believe what another poster said about Mac not really wanting his ass that bad and good old Woody made the call because that smacks of his normal m.o. 

[Warfish]

50 minutes ago, UntouchableCrew said:

Darnold is a stud and I want him.

Gaaaaay.

[jetspenguin]

1 hour ago, bitonti said:

The fact that Trubisky goes 2 means you can put those thoughts out of your mind forever. Cause the Jets didn't pass on him. Fans of Watson and Mahomes II on the other hand will be watching Jamal Adams' career very closely indeed

the main reason I was skeptical of Trubisky was because he couldnt beat out the guy ahead of him in prior years and that guy isnt even in the pros now

[bitonti]

1 hour ago, JoJoTownsell1 said:

That is just about the worst way to analyze a QB. If Luck had decided to go to USC, you wouldn't have drafted him because of Matt Barkley and Leinart? Not to mention, Carson Palmer went to USC and has been a very good QB.

You wouldn't have drafted Peyton Manning because of Heath Shuler and no other Tennessee QB being good before him? 

Conversely, was Jared Goff's chances of success greater simply because Aaron Rodgers also went to Cal? 

 

 

listing the rare exceptions to the rule doesn't really disprove the rule. Manning had bloodlines and Palmer won the Heisman. If Darnold wins the Heisman we can talk about him being the next Carson Palmer 

 

Maybe USC qb isn't a good fit in the AFC East where there will be at Buffalo, At foxboro and 8 home games in the elements. That's 10 games every year with potentially worse weather than anything Sam Darnold has seen in his career.  Not counting playoffs, which could be at Foxboro, at Denver, at Pittsburgh etc.

[BCJet]

This from walterfootball.com  

An NFC area scout ranks UCLA QB Josh Rosen as the No. 4 draft-eligible quarterback prospect in the nation.

The scout puts Rosen behind Sam Darnold, Josh Allen and Lamar Jackson. "Rosen has huge talent and lacks intangibles," the scout told Walter Football's Charlie Campbell. "He is a prototypical pocket guy. I love his talent, but his own teammates don't like him. Being a prick is one thing, but there aren't many quarterbacks who stick around long-term and are successful that couldn't get along well with their teammates." Right or wrong, Rosen's character has been under attack recently as the NFL turns their attention to the 2018 draft crop. The MMQB's Albert Breer spoke to an AFC executive earlier this month who called Rosen a "mess" off the field.

[Tinstar]

2 hours ago, bitonti said:

The fact that Trubisky goes 2 means you can put those thoughts out of your mind forever. Cause the Jets didn't pass on him. Fans of Watson and Mahomes II on the other hand will be watching Jamal Adams' career very closely indeed

I could have lived with Watson, but I wanted no part of Mahomes  . I could careless what a certain player does on another team with a totally different group of players  because he wasn't drafted by the Jets . The players that allowed Dax Prescott to do what he did last year don't exist on the Jets roster, so him being here would not have allowed him to see the same level of success .

It's all relative, not mutually exclusive .

[Thor99]

4 hours ago, Fantasy Island said:

That would be a 12 men on the field penalty...

Guess we're hiring Rex back.

 

[ZachEY]

18 hours ago, KRL said:

The normal practice of picking apart the next crop of QB's  gets under way:

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000809136/article/darnold-rosen-allen-no-surefire-franchise-qbs-in-next-wave

During the run up to the 2017 NFL Draft, I heard several of my colleagues suggest that teams in need of a franchise quarterback should consider bypassing the top prospects in a "weak" quarterback class this year and focus on landing one of the crown jewels from a so-called "loaded" 2018 quarterback class.

While I thought such conversation dismissed the talent and potential of the likes of Mitchell Trubisky, Deshaun Watson, Patrick Mahomes and others at the position, I had heard so much about the next wave at the position that I couldn't wait to take a peek at the group when the draft concluded.

In fact, I was so excited about evaluating the next generation of field generals that I popped in some tape over the weekend to get a feel for this collection of quarterbacks that I had heard so much about throughout the offseason. After spending the weekend looking at the top prospects at the position, I would tell anyone within earshot to pump the brakes on the hype train that's making this collection of quarterbacks out to be game-changers at the position.

Now, that's not a complete dismissal of the long-term potential of the quarterback prospects in the upcoming class, but I believe the same questions and concerns that plagued the 2017 group can be applied to those who could be in the 2018 class. Whether it's concerns about their transition from a spread offense to a pro-style scheme or their overall experience and game-management abilities, the top prospects at the position have just as many warts on their respective games as their predecessors. There isn't a sure-fire franchise quarterback in the group and any suggestion otherwise is based on hype, not evaluation.

For instance, USC's Sam Darnold has been touted as the consensus choice as the top quarterback prospect heading into the fall. Observers have suggested that he has the best combination of size, arm talent, athleticism and intangibles that we've seen at the position in years. While the 6-foot-4, 225-pound playmaker certainly posted impressive production and flashed outstanding potential during his 10-game run last season as the team's starting quarterback, he isn't quite a polished passer who's ready to take the NFL by storm.

Sure, he compiled a strong completion rate (67.2 percent) and touchdown-to-interception ratio (31:9) last season, but he played in a catch-and-fire system similar to the schemes that were run by Trubisky and Davis Webb. The Trojans' offense features a number of quicks, screens, RPOs (run-pass options) and mesh concepts (layered crossing routes) that are staples in most spread or Air Raid systems. Thus, Darnold will need time to transition to the pro game, just like his predecessors.

He will also need to refine his footwork and fundamentals to become a more efficient passer from the pocket and show better deep-ball accuracy when he pushes the ball down the field. With Darnold showing a little recklessness with the ball, it's quite possible that his interception totals will swell during his second season as a starter (see the reports of his interceptions during spring ball).

I see why scouts are excited about Darnold's potential. He's a gritty competitor with big-game moxie and he's capable of shredding opponents as an anticipatory thrower. However, he isn't the finished product that some would have you believe. Thus, we should hold off on crowning him the NFL's next great quarterback.

The same could be said for UCLA's Josh Rosen. The 6-4, 218-pound junior is everything that coaches and scouts covet in a traditional pocket passer. Rosen can make every throw in the book with pinpoint placement and accuracy while also showing a feathery touch.

As a freshman in 2015, he wowed evaluators with his ability move defenders with his eyes before throwing receivers open between the numbers. Rosen played like a savvy veteran at the position and exhibited the qualities (arm talent, accuracy, poise and sound judgement) that most desire at the position. Yet, he enters the 2017 season with concerns about his arm strength/talent following a shoulder injury that prematurely ended his sophomore season (missed the Bruins' final six games, underwent shoulder surgery in November). In addition, scouts have concerns about his prickly personality and leadership skills based on interactions with teammates and coaches during his tenure.

Considering how medical issues and character concerns can affect final draft grades, Rosen also has a lot to prove before earning a franchise quarterback label.

Wyoming's Josh Allen has been touted as the biggest wild card of the group based on his A-plus arm talent, gunslinger mentality and experience directing a pro-style offense that produced a quality QB prospect a few years ago (see Carson Wentz).

Measuring 6-5, 222 pounds, Allen is the big, athletic quarterback that coaches and scouts salivate over during the pre-draft process. As a fastball pitcher with unlimited range and outstanding velocity, he can make tight-window throws without flinching. While some of those throws skew toward the "high-risk, high-reward" nature, the Cowboys' QB1 possesses the arm talent to pull it off in most instances. While that is certainly a positive aspect of his game, particularly in dire situations, Allen's tendency to "throw it up" without regard is also a huge concern. He tallied 15 interceptions during his first season as a starter, including seven picks during the team's final five games (1-4 record), which contributed to their late-season slide. Remember how much we discussed Watson's interception totals and Mahomes' gunslinging ways leading up to the draft this spring?

Allen also struggles with his accuracy and ball placement at times, as evidenced by his 56-percent completion rate, so the Wyoming gunslinger isn't the connect-the-dots passer that some teams prefer at the position. Although he still has time to refine his passing skills and master the management part of the game, Allen is more potential than production at this point.

With the other top prospects in college football (Washington State's Luke Falk, Oklahoma State's Mason Rudolph, Louisville's Lamar Jackson, Idaho's Matt Linehan, Pittsburgh's Max Browne and Auburn's Jarrett Stidham) also having a number of warts on their games, I think the next wave of QBs might not be the collection of crown jewels that I expected based on the hype. Let's see if that opinion changes after they take the field this fall.

Are we really of the mindset that the author didn't arrive at that conclusion as the thesis of his article before he "popped in the tape?"

[FTL Jet Fan]

3 hours ago, chirorob said:

It's not like Namath never rubbed his team mates the wrong way.

Aikman pissed people off.  Fouts was a total jerk, Rogers rubs people the wrong way. 

In NY we need a confident, cocky arrogant bastard to deal with the media,fans etc. He needs to not give a Fu*ck what people think and just go out and play and be a leader of his team. I am not saying we need a total D bag but we can't have any more QB's that get their feelings hurt by the fans and media and let all the noise get into their head. That is what Cimini and Mehta strive on.  If you look at Eli he looks brain dead, but he is able to totally block out all the BS. It's a fine line I guess. 

[JetFaninMI]

9 hours ago, Tinstar said:

So you're saying that a GM noted for taking BPA based on how he stacked his board, chose a Prospect who was not rated a 2nd rounder on his board because nobody worth their sand had that prospect rated that highly .

If I believed for 1 second that Hackenberg wasn't rated a 2nd round pick I would agree with this viewpoint, but since I was willing to use a late 1st round pick to secure his services, then I guess I'm in the opposing camp .   

 

LOL Okay.

[JetFaninMI]

8 hours ago, CanadaSteve said:

Okay....by this philosophy, had Tom Brady been picked in the second round, he would not have been worth it, considering he was valued in the 6-7 round area.

GOT IT!

LOL. Okay to you as well.

[JetFaninMI]

6 hours ago, jetspenguin said:

Where hack was rated wasnt my point and you know it. You said even if he was a franchise guy he wouldnt have been worth the 2nd rd pick. It doesnt matter what the experts (who are wrong quite a bit) think if he turns out to be the franchise guy

and it also doesnt matter what Fitz was worth to another team, he didnt play there, he played HERE. For this god forsaken franchise where this fool was able to break records and put on an offensive show the likes of which we havent seen since the Vinny days. So HERE he was worth 12 mil as you are worth whatever someone will pay you just like at your job. I actually believe what another poster said about Mac not really wanting his ass that bad and good old Woody made the call because that smacks of his normal m.o. 

No I don't know "it". I am telling you what I meant. Hack was a reach in the second round. That is what I am saying. I guess you needed it spelled out for you.

No other team made sh*tz an offer. My point is no other team that badly needed a QB wanted him. It doesn't matter where he played its how he played. The Jets tried to wait him out because he had no other offers. They wound up giving him 12 mil and he sh*t the bed. Get over it. He is gone.

[T0mShane]

5 hours ago, BCJet said:

The scout puts The MMQB's Albert Breer spoke to an AFC executive earlier this month who called Rosen a "mess" off the field.

Meshugganah*