AFJF Posted June 5, 2017 Share Posted June 5, 2017 Just now, Bugg said: Bold that which jumps out All true, but the point I was making is that it's not as if the guy was viewed as a 3rd/4th rounder who they took in the first because of his 40 time. He was listed as a first rounder in countless mocks due to his play at OSU. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
varjet Posted June 5, 2017 Share Posted June 5, 2017 10 minutes ago, AFJF said: SOURCES TELL US "Don't get overly excited about Ragland making a lot of plays behind those tackles at Alabama. It won't be that way in the pros. Lee had talent on his defense too, but he's a natural three-down player who can cover and blitz. He's a much better playmaker than Ragland." -- AFC executive Think the AFC Executive was Mac? I agree that we should not MMQB this. Lee was an impact player at a major program who was the Buchanan copycat player that Bowles was looking for. The players picked after him do not appear to be obvious better picks. My concern is that over the past year he has displayed 3 incidents of questionable sanity/judgment. Hopefully there was no evidence of this before he was drafted (my scouting point). He needs an intervention. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
"Don't get overly excited about Ragland making a lot of plays behind those tackles at Alabama. It won't be that way in the pros. Lee had talent on his defense too, but he's a natural three-down player who can cover and blitz. He's a much better playmaker than Ragland." -- AFC executive
AFJF Posted June 5, 2017 Share Posted June 5, 2017 1 minute ago, varjet said: Think the AFC Executive was Mac? I agree that we should not MMQB this. Lee was an impact player at a major program who was the Buchanan copycat player that Bowles was looking for. The players picked after him do not appear to be obvious better picks. My concern is that over the past year he has displayed 3 incidents of questionable sanity/judgment. Hopefully there was no evidence of this before he was drafted (my scouting point). He needs an intervention. Exactly. On the field he has his warts, but it's his mental state that stands out right now as a much bigger concern. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HessStation Posted June 5, 2017 Share Posted June 5, 2017 8 hours ago, AFJF said: Leo's maturity in this situation can't be overstated. If he had reacted differently, or indifferently, the headline/story here could have easily been. 1) Jets players brawl with each other at concert or 2) Jets' Darron Lee assaults woman at concert He has me. All of me. Top 3 all time favorite already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HessStation Posted June 5, 2017 Share Posted June 5, 2017 11 minutes ago, AFJF said: Exactly. On the field he has his warts, but it's his mental state that stands out right now as a much bigger concern. I'm in the minority but I'm too worried about on the field. He was a rookie, I think he'll get it. It's the off field stuff... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFJF Posted June 5, 2017 Share Posted June 5, 2017 1 minute ago, HessStation said: I'm in the minority but I'm too worried about on the field. He was a rookie, I think he'll get it. It's the off field stuff... I'm not all that concerned either. He's still learning the position and adjusting to the NFL. He did some things well as a rookie. If he's not in a straight jacket before the '17 season, I expect a much improved player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JiFtheOracle Posted June 5, 2017 Share Posted June 5, 2017 28 minutes ago, AFJF said: Some mocks had him as being off the board when the Jets chose. He was viewed as a legitimate mid/late first round pick. Performing well at the combine after playing at a high level in college doesn't make somebody a workout wonder. The guy, as much of a Dbag as he appears to be, was a disruptive player for a major program with 27 TFL's and 11 sacks in 2 collegiate seasons. DRAFT ANALYSIS: "He's today's NFL outside linebacker. He ran a 4.47 40 at 232 pounds. He's a sideline-to-sideline, three-down linebacker. His weakness is if you cover him up against a big body, he will struggle." -- Mike Mayock 6'1"HEIGHT 33 1/4"ARM LENGTH 232LBS.WEIGHT 9 3/4"HANDS OVERVIEW Lee's never been short on confidence, proclaiming to teammates that he was the one to take over for 2014 first-round pick Ryan Shazier in the Buckeyes' defense -- even though he was only a year removed from starring as a quarterback and cornerback in high school. He wound up starting all 15 games in that redshirt freshman year for the national champion Buckeyes, earning multiple Freshman All-American accolades with 81 tackles, 16.5 tackles for loss and 7.5 sacks. Lee truly hit the national stage by terrorizing Alabama in the Sugar Bowl, receiving Defensive MVP honors with seven tackles, three for loss, and two sacks. His play as a sophomore was just as good, tracking down ball carriers 66 times, 11 for a loss and 4.5 sacks on his way to second-team All-Big Ten accolades from league coaches (third team media). ANALYSIS STRENGTHS Quick to diagnose and flow to the ball. Has unusual ability to find the most efficient routes to the ball. Has athleticism and flexibility to contort his body and succeed through difficult tackle angles. Plays with loose hips, quick feet and desired agility of an NFL weak-side linebacker. Former high school quarterback with the change of direction and speed to be a rangy playmaker. Comfortable in space and excels there. Has plus man cover talent. Willing to stand in and take on blockers with a leveraged strike if his gap is being threatened. Capable gap blitzer with ability to get skinny through the holes. WEAKNESSES Smallish linebacker. Play strength doesn't come close to matching puffed up listed weight. Balance issues at point of attack could plague him over his NFL career. Has the body type of a big safety. Tape shows few authoritative tackles. Involved in too many arm and shoestring tackles. Comes flying in and fails to come to balance at times. Charged with 21 missed and five broken tackles over the last two seasons. Always at size disadvantage and will have to learn to slip more blocks. Can get better at finding targets in zone coverage. DRAFT PROJECTION Round 1 SOURCES TELL US "Don't get overly excited about Ragland making a lot of plays behind those tackles at Alabama. It won't be that way in the pros. Lee had talent on his defense too, but he's a natural three-down player who can cover and blitz. He's a much better playmaker than Ragland." -- AFC executive NFL COMPARISON Zach Brown BOTTOM LINE Lee's level of NFL success might very well be tied to scheme fit and his ability to add more muscle to his frame. His athletic traits and ability to make plays should make him a starter, but he won't unlock his full potential unless he gets strong enough to handle the rigors of an NFL linebacker. I don think I've actually ever read his pre-draft analysis....but when you read the weakness, I dont know how on earth you think you're drafting a first round talent. And that's besides the fact you're drafting a ******* ILB in the 1st round. This literally should have read - "Superior collegiate athlete who played on a stacked defense that plays one of the softest schedules in the country but not a very good Football player because he doesnt do Football things well." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STRENGTHS Quick to diagnose and flow to the ball. Has unusual ability to find the most efficient routes to the ball. Has athleticism and flexibility to contort his body and succeed through difficult tackle angles. Plays with loose hips, quick feet and desired agility of an NFL weak-side linebacker. Former high school quarterback with the change of direction and speed to be a rangy playmaker. Comfortable in space and excels there. Has plus man cover talent. Willing to stand in and take on blockers with a leveraged strike if his gap is being threatened. Capable gap blitzer with ability to get skinny through the holes.
WEAKNESSES Smallish linebacker. Play strength doesn't come close to matching puffed up listed weight. Balance issues at point of attack could plague him over his NFL career. Has the body type of a big safety. Tape shows few authoritative tackles. Involved in too many arm and shoestring tackles. Comes flying in and fails to come to balance at times. Charged with 21 missed and five broken tackles over the last two seasons. Always at size disadvantage and will have to learn to slip more blocks. Can get better at finding targets in zone coverage.
SOURCES TELL US "Don't get overly excited about Ragland making a lot of plays behind those tackles at Alabama. It won't be that way in the pros. Lee had talent on his defense too, but he's a natural three-down player who can cover and blitz. He's a much better playmaker than Ragland." -- AFC executive
BOTTOM LINE Lee's level of NFL success might very well be tied to scheme fit and his ability to add more muscle to his frame. His athletic traits and ability to make plays should make him a starter, but he won't unlock his full potential unless he gets strong enough to handle the rigors of an NFL linebacker.
AFJF Posted June 5, 2017 Share Posted June 5, 2017 Just now, JiF said: I don think I've actually ever read his pre-draft analysis....but when you read the weakness, I dont know how on earth you think you're drafting a first round talent. And that's besides the fact you're drafting a ******* ILB in the 1st round. This literally should have read - "Superior collegiate athlete who played on a stacked defense that plays one of the softest schedules in the country but not a very good Football player because he doesnt do Football things well." Every player sounds like a first round pick under strengths. Ever player comes off as undraftable under weaknesses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JiFtheOracle Posted June 5, 2017 Share Posted June 5, 2017 2 minutes ago, AFJF said: Every player sounds like a first round pick under strengths. Ever player comes off as undraftable under weaknesses. Not really. This particular one was bad though. Especially when you consider what they drafted him to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Powpow Posted June 5, 2017 Share Posted June 5, 2017 Good to see Lee picking on someone his own size. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFJF Posted June 5, 2017 Share Posted June 5, 2017 16 minutes ago, JiF said: Not really. This particular one was bad though. Especially when you consider what they drafted him to do. Consensus first round pick who has only been playing LB for a few years and was second on the team in tackles. It's fashionable to rip the guy, but he was a rookie who played like a rookie. Made some mistakes and did some things well. All probaby moot because he's probably insane. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hael Posted June 5, 2017 Share Posted June 5, 2017 I had him as a high second rounder, so I was a little surprised at the reach. Thought he'd be a competent tackler with elite range, and within a few years would be an elite cover guy. Liability as a blitzer and as a run defender up the middle due to size. i wasn't too wrong, he has shown zero pass rush and opposing linemen can push him around as easily as Leo did. His cover skills were a little underwhelming considering the hype but I think he can work on that. He's definitely shown the elite speed and ability to run down runners. Just didn't see the huge upside to be worthy of a first.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
varjet Posted June 5, 2017 Share Posted June 5, 2017 22 minutes ago, Hael said: I had him as a high second rounder, so I was a little surprised at the reach. Thought he'd be a competent tackler with elite range, and within a few years would be an elite cover guy. Liability as a blitzer and as a run defender up the middle due to size. i wasn't too wrong, he has shown zero pass rush and opposing linemen can push him around as easily as Leo did. His cover skills were a little underwhelming considering the hype but I think he can work on that. He's definitely shown the elite speed and ability to run down runners. Just didn't see the huge upside to be worthy of a first.. The irony and frustration is that going into the 2016 draft, the Jets were a 10-6 team that Woody and his minions thought could keep competing. Some thought that the Jets should realize that Fitz' success was temporary, the Jets had the easiest schedule ever, Mo was injured, etc., and that the Jets should start the rebuild. In hindsight, that was the right move, but you can see how that is tough to do for a team that wants happy fans and to sell tickets, etc. When looking at 2015, one of the big weaknesses was the ability to cover TEs and RBs out of the backfield. DEMARIO DAVIS could not do that. So we let him go to Cleveland and drafted Lee, whose strength was coverage. Lee was very good and staying close to receivers but not so good at turning his head or trying to defend passes. Davis is now back. The Jets continue to be adrift. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFJF Posted June 5, 2017 Share Posted June 5, 2017 28 minutes ago, Hael said: I had him as a high second rounder, so I was a little surprised at the reach. Thought he'd be a competent tackler with elite range, and within a few years would be an elite cover guy. Liability as a blitzer and as a run defender up the middle due to size. i wasn't too wrong, he has shown zero pass rush and opposing linemen can push him around as easily as Leo did. His cover skills were a little underwhelming considering the hype but I think he can work on that. He's definitely shown the elite speed and ability to run down runners. Just didn't see the huge upside to be worthy of a first.. No disrespect, but he was widely viewed as a first round pick by the scouting community, so it wasn't really a reach. Mike Mayock, perhaps the most respected drafnik in the country said that Lee is a modern day, sideline-to-sideline, every down linebacker. Pretty high praise from a guy who is paid by the NFL network to be their top draft evaluator. I also saw him mocked to the Falcons in several mocks and they were a few picks ahead of the Jets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetmech Posted June 5, 2017 Share Posted June 5, 2017 Bold that which jumps out Funny reading this makes you wonder how he was rated so highly. It must have been his high character...Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetmech Posted June 5, 2017 Share Posted June 5, 2017 Consensus first round pick who has only been playing LB for a few years and was second on the team in tackles. It's fashionable to rip the guy, but he was a rookie who played like a rookie. Made some mistakes and did some things well. All probaby moot because he's probably insane. Agree with everything but praising his tackle numbers. What were they 6+ yard past the LOS? Deja Vu of you know who...Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFJF Posted June 5, 2017 Share Posted June 5, 2017 1 minute ago, Jetmech said: Agree with everything but praising his tackle numbers. What were they 6+ yard past the LOS? Deja Vu of you know who... Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk Not sure it's "praising". Just pointing out a fact. As I said, he did some things well and others not so well. He made several plays at or around the LOS, but clearly not enough. He should improve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UnitedWhofans Posted June 5, 2017 Share Posted June 5, 2017 Interesting thing is that nobody really cares. It blipped and then into the background. Partly because there was no police involved, no arrests etc. If Lee had a pattern of this, then I would be concerned, but he doesn't. So we'll leave it at that And good for Leonard Williams, who is truly becoming a leader Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rangerous Posted June 5, 2017 Share Posted June 5, 2017 look on the bright side, he probably went with leo. i doubt if it was a chance meeting at the festival. that shows some sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T0mShane Posted June 5, 2017 Share Posted June 5, 2017 1 hour ago, UnitedWhofans said: Interesting thing is that nobody really cares. It blipped and then into the background. Partly because there was no police involved, no arrests etc. If Lee had a pattern of this, then I would be concerned, but he doesn't. So we'll leave it at that And good for Leonard Williams, who is truly becoming a leader If you like undersized linebackers I feel bad for you son. He had 99 tackles but that skeez at Governor's Ball wasn't one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFJF Posted June 5, 2017 Share Posted June 5, 2017 9 minutes ago, T0mShane said: If you like undersized linebackers I feel bad for you son. He had 99 tackles but that skeez at Governor's Ball wasn't one. That took me a second. Well played. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bostonmajet Posted June 5, 2017 Share Posted June 5, 2017 I said this in the other Topic before it was locked... Lee's behavior is just wrong. Sadly, in this day in age, an NFL player (or any athlete) behaving like a moron has become all too common. Instead on focussing on Lee's stupidity (and hopefully this is a wake up call for him), we should be focussing on the amazing acts of Leo. This is a young kid who is playing lights out. He could walk around with the 'i can do what i want' attitude and doesn't. Not only did he step in, he did it in a calm, non-escalating fashion. He could have stepped in with a swagger, started pushing, swearing, etc. I hope many here realize how much maturity, confidence, and leadership it takes to step into a bad situation and quietly defuse it. This is the 'teachable' moment we should be talking about. Leo is the story here, not some drunken, entitled athlete. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gas2No99 Posted June 5, 2017 Share Posted June 5, 2017 2 hours ago, UnitedWhofans said: Interesting thing is that nobody really cares. It blipped and then into the background. Partly because there was no police involved, no arrests etc. If Lee had a pattern of this, then I would be concerned, but he doesn't. So we'll leave it at that And good for Leonard Williams, who is truly becoming a leader The cited articles are in the other locked thread. Lee HAS shown a piss poor pattern of concerning behavior. The child needs to reign in his behavior around locales where drinking is involved (the music festival and getting "jumped" at an Ohio bar in Feb'17) and just avert all social media interactions (his take on race relations in the US) with the general public. He needs to grow up & mature FAST b/c that $hit may be permissible in bumblef@ck Ohio as big guy on campus, but that won't cut it in NYC with this predatory media and the MILLIONS of cell cameras at the ready to ruin his career at any given second. The fact a teammate HAD to PHYSICALLY remove him so as to avoid an escalating situation just adds more icing to the cake that Lee isn't the boy scout he was made out to be in the '16 combine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pdxgreen Posted June 5, 2017 Share Posted June 5, 2017 I think he was in the "process" of doing something wrong when Leo acted like a good teammate and human being and maybe saved his career. That is an amazing act that should hopefully show the Jets that they need to stick together in the locker room and out. I am sure there will be repercussions from this event by both the authorities and the NFL. But let's hope a public shaming will knock some sense into his head. He has a ways to go till he leaves up to his first round status. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunnie Posted June 5, 2017 Share Posted June 5, 2017 Leo is now established as a team leader. Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gas2No99 Posted June 5, 2017 Share Posted June 5, 2017 3 minutes ago, Dunnie said: Leo is now established as a team leader. He's what we called back in the day . . . a Goodfella Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greenseed4 Posted June 6, 2017 Share Posted June 6, 2017 I'm glad social media wasn't around when I was a 22yo drunk. I just get to HEAR "stories" of things I did, I don't have to wake up to them on YouTube, Twitter, SnapTumble, and Fscebook. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony MaC Posted June 6, 2017 Share Posted June 6, 2017 15 minutes ago, Greenseed4 said: I'm glad social media wasn't around when I was a 22yo drunk. I just get to HEAR "stories" of things I did, I don't have to wake up to them on YouTube, Twitter, SnapTumble, and Fscebook. People say the world has gotten worse in recent times, I think we just have a more connected and revealing look at humanity because of the internet. Imagine if people had social media in long a go time like the sixties, oh man... Joe would have been a riot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
detectivekimble Posted June 6, 2017 Share Posted June 6, 2017 4 hours ago, UnitedWhofans said: Interesting thing is that nobody really cares. It blipped and then into the background. Partly because there was no police involved, no arrests etc. If Lee had a pattern of this, then I would be concerned, but he doesn't. So we'll leave it at that And good for Leonard Williams, who is truly becoming a leader I'm not going to pile on, but Lee appears to have some sort of issue that he needs help with. It's seems like alcohol or a mental health issue. Reminiscent of a young Brandon Marshall. I mean, the dude imagined that he got jumped at Ohio State. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
detectivekimble Posted June 6, 2017 Share Posted June 6, 2017 2 hours ago, pdxgreen said: I think he was in the "process" of doing something wrong when Leo acted like a good teammate and human being and maybe saved his career. That is an amazing act that should hopefully show the Jets that they need to stick together in the locker room and out. I am sure there will be repercussions from this event by both the authorities and the NFL. But let's hope a public shaming will knock some sense into his head. He has a ways to go till he leaves up to his first round status. I'm not sure. He doesn't seem like a bad apple. More like a kid with some issue that he needs help with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thadude Posted June 6, 2017 Share Posted June 6, 2017 9 hours ago, AFJF said: Lee as a player? I think most guys should get more than one season to show whether they belong or not, but to each his own. Lee's specialty is covering Tight Ends yet he was any TE's dream in coverage last season. Jimmy Graham was doing whatever he wanted to him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgb Posted June 6, 2017 Share Posted June 6, 2017 We are Jets fans. I'm already worried our 1st round pick in 2018 will bust. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fantasy Island Posted June 6, 2017 Share Posted June 6, 2017 9 hours ago, AFJF said: All true, but the point I was making is that it's not as if the guy was viewed as a 3rd/4th rounder who they took in the first because of his 40 time. He was listed as a first rounder in countless mocks due to his play at OSU. Another buckeye bust, the Big 10 is the minor leagues. SEC players is where the talent lies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFJF Posted June 6, 2017 Share Posted June 6, 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamesr Posted June 6, 2017 Share Posted June 6, 2017 9 hours ago, detectivekimble said: I'm not sure. He doesn't seem like a bad apple. More like a kid with some issue that he needs help with. He should have a talk with ASJ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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