No matter how you slice it, we're screwed at #6 this year.

[Stark]

11 minutes ago, bigalbarracuda said:

I'm more worried about the below scenario... I'd hate to be forced into taking the 4th QB... unless of course he's the best of the bunch haha. 

1. CLE - Darnold
2. NYG - Rosen 
3. IND - Chubb
4. CLE - Nelson
5. DEN - Allen/Mayfield

 

If this is the case I almost just say F* it and take to top rated OT or Barkley. 

[Untouchable]

34 minutes ago, bigalbarracuda said:

I'm more worried about the below scenario... I'd hate to be forced into taking the 4th QB... unless of course he's the best of the bunch haha. 

1. CLE - Darnold
2. NYG - Rosen 
3. IND - Chubb
4. CLE - Nelson
5. DEN - Allen/Mayfield

 

This would be ideal if we land Cousins.

Barkley/Nelson there for the taking.

[T0mShane]

On 1/30/2018 at 12:53 PM, Paradis said:

What a colossal bust. Jets managed to make life impossible for themselves. 

Look at this--

1. QB scenario; Jets are out of the mix for Darnold/Rosen, and probably Mayfield unless we trade up. 
2. If we sign Cousins; Best players available are TWO safeties... are you fcking kidding me? 
3. Alternatives are a OG, and a RB... both are not great ways to maximize your value there.

 

Imagine a scenario where we sign Cousins and the draft goes like this:

1. CLE - Mayfield
2. NYG - Darnold
3. IND - Chubb
4. CLE - Barkley
5. DEN - Fitzpatrick

What the hell do you do there?... it's not that crazy. 

Imo, the nightmare scenario is Darnold, Rosen, and Mayfield coming off the board and Macc staring at Josh Allen, knowing he’s damned if he does, damned if he doesn’t. If he takes Allen, there’s no way you can put him on the field early and now Bowles is starting McCown again and the stadium melts down. But if he passes, he’ll get slaughtered for missing out on Cousins AND letting Allen (sanctified by the dimwit Twitter scout hype machine) go to Buffalo or wherever. And to top it off, if Macc passes on Allen to take Minkah? Oof.

[Paradis]

17 hours ago, T0mShane said:

Imo, the nightmare scenario is Darnold, Rosen, and Mayfield coming off the board and Macc staring at Josh Allen, knowing he’s damned if he does, damned if he doesn’t. If he takes Allen, there’s no way you can put him on the field early and now Bowles is starting McCown again and the stadium melts down. But if he passes, he’ll get slaughtered for missing out on Cousins AND letting Allen (sanctified by the dimwit Twitter scout hype machine) go to Buffalo or wherever. And to top it off, if Macc passes on Allen to take Minkah? Oof.

My brain can't process this possibility. Thinking about it would keep me up at night, and likely abusing children in the neighborhood. My best coping strategy is to assume Macc won't take another accuracy-challenged QB and would resort to Lamar Jackson.

[Philc1]

23 hours ago, Sarge4Tide said:

I'm not anti-Allen.  Too soon to rank the QBs.

How?  You have at least 2-3 years of gametape on all of them available on the internet 

[19andOhWait]

thank goodness for the extra 2nd. I really hope we don't trade up. Deep QB class. Deep RB class. some nice gem WR's. let's load up on offense for once babay!!! 

O-Line at 6 wouldn't be end of world as well. Redskins took Scherff there a couple years ago and he's been a mauler for them. 

[Matt39]

12 hours ago, T0mShane said:

Imo, the nightmare scenario is Darnold, Rosen, and Mayfield coming off the board and Macc staring at Josh Allen, knowing he’s damned if he does, damned if he doesn’t. If he takes Allen, there’s no way you can put him on the field early and now Bowles is starting McCown again and the stadium melts down. But if he passes, he’ll get slaughtered for missing out on Cousins AND letting Allen (sanctified by the dimwit Twitter scout hype machine) go to Buffalo or wherever. And to top it off, if Macc passes on Allen to take Minkah? Oof.

Am I wrong to think this regime has zero plans on taking a QB at 6? Bowles playing a rookie over Mccown (or Keenum etc..) seems unlikely. I think it's obvious now that he's gung-ho on building his Arizona defense here. He's gotten his way in 3 straight drafts, hard to see him overruled. Gut feeling is the team takes a CB and they release the typical "Well, we really liked Mayfield/Darnold etc but we felt the value of Fitzpatrick falling to 6 was too hard to pass up" spiel and then they hedge by taking a QB with one of their extra second rounders.

[Dupe]

Considering the overdrafting of quarterbacks, if we sign Cousins, there will be tremendous value at 6 for a non-quarterback.  

[JustInFudge]

34 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

Am I wrong to think this regime has zero plans on taking a QB at 6? Bowles playing a rookie over Mccown (or Keenum etc..) seems unlikely. I think it's obvious now that he's gung-ho on building his Arizona defense here. He's gotten his way in 3 straight drafts, hard to see him overruled. Gut feeling is the team takes a CB and they release the typical "Well, we really liked Mayfield/Darnold etc but we felt the value of Fitzpatrick falling to 6 was too hard to pass up" spiel and then they hedge by taking a QB with one of their extra second rounders.

No, you're not wrong.  This is 100% what is happening.  The Jets arent taking a QB at #6 or offense because of their big board and because Bowles wants nothing to do with playing a rookie QB or committing to building the offense.  Plus, there are a bunch of guys that fit the Mac mold that could be had in rounds 2-4.  Rudolph, Faulk, Lauletta, White, etc. and honestly at this point, who knows...they might be better than the supposed top QB's in this draft.  It's deep with meh.

Dont sleep on Vita Vea here at this pick as the BAP.  Dude could be the next Haloti Nagata and I'm sure once Todd sees and meets him, he's going to fall head over heels in love with him.  Otherwise, Ward or Fitzpatrick are probably the call.  Unless, they fall in love with Davenport but I just dont see that happening based on Williams > Beasley decision.  Vea > Davenport.

The more  I look at things and think about it, the more I see Vea being the pick.  Especially in a scenario where they land a FA QB.

 

[MDL_JET]

47 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

Am I wrong to think this regime has zero plans on taking a QB at 6? Bowles playing a rookie over Mccown (or Keenum etc..) seems unlikely. I think it's obvious now that he's gung-ho on building his Arizona defense here. He's gotten his way in 3 straight drafts, hard to see him overruled. Gut feeling is the team takes a CB and they release the typical "Well, we really liked Mayfield/Darnold etc but we felt the value of Fitzpatrick falling to 6 was too hard to pass up" spiel and then they hedge by taking a QB with one of their extra second rounders.

So you're saying if a guy like Mayfield or Darnold are available, they'll pass and take Fitzpatrick? Only way that happens is if they sign Cousins. Don't be ridiculous.

[Augustiniak]

1 hour ago, JiF said:

No, you're not wrong.  This is 100% what is happening.  The Jets arent taking a QB at #6 or offense because of their big board and because Bowles wants nothing to do with playing a rookie QB or committing to building the offense.  Plus, there are a bunch of guys that fit the Mac mold that could be had in rounds 2-4.  Rudolph, Faulk, Lauletta, White, etc. and honestly at this point, who knows...they might be better than the supposed top QB's in this draft.  It's deep with meh.

Dont sleep on Vita Vea here at this pick as the BAP.  Dude could be the next Haloti Nagata and I'm sure once Todd sees and meets him, he's going to fall head over heels in love with him.  Otherwise, Ward or Fitzpatrick are probably the call.  Unless, they fall in love with Davenport but I just dont see that happening based on Williams > Beasley decision.  Vea > Davenport.

The more  I look at things and think about it, the more I see Vea being the pick.  Especially in a scenario where they land a FA QB.

 

not if they get sheldon back.  i just don't see mccagnan being that stupid but hey i could be wrong.  i would think nelson is the pick if they sign cousins.  it makes too much sense and it fits the BAP narrative as well as taking another non-impact position.  imagine having the #6 pick in 3 of your first 4 drafts as gm and NOT taking a qb/LT/edge rusher or shut down cb?  

[Matt39]

1 hour ago, MDL_JET said:

So you're saying if a guy like Mayfield or Darnold are available, they'll pass and take Fitzpatrick? Only way that happens is if they sign Cousins. Don't be ridiculous.

They passed on Watson and Mahomes. Why wouldnt they pass again? Bowles isnt going to play a younger QB over a veteran and he wants to build his defense. Anyone thinking Bowles would trot out Baker Mayfield as a day 1 starter is out of their minds.

[MDL_JET]

4 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

They passed on Watson and Mahomes. Why wouldnt they pass again? Bowles isnt going to play a younger QB over a veteran and he wants to build his defense. Anyone thinking Bowles would trot out Baker Mayfield as a day 1 starter is out of their minds.

Fans need to get it out of their head that because they did something in the past it automatically means they'll do it again and again and again. And maybe if we have a young QB that's actually worth playing, we could find out what Bowles would do.

[JustInFudge]

37 minutes ago, Augustiniak said:

not if they get sheldon back.  i just don't see mccagnan being that stupid but hey i could be wrong.  i would think nelson is the pick if they sign cousins.  it makes too much sense and it fits the BAP narrative as well as taking another non-impact position.  imagine having the #6 pick in 3 of your first 4 drafts as gm and NOT taking a qb/LT/edge rusher or shut down cb?  

I'm confused, what would be stupid?

I'll be very upset if the Jets spend FA money to get Sheldon back.

[JustInFudge]

25 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

They passed on Watson and Mahomes. Why wouldnt they pass again? Bowles isnt going to play a younger QB over a veteran and he wants to build his defense. Anyone thinking Bowles would trot out Baker Mayfield as a day 1 starter is out of their minds.

And Lynch the year before for Hack in the 2nd.  

I just dont possibly see how Baker Mayfield fits the Mac and Todd profile.  Certainly not at #6 overall.  That's not even getting into how he'd be sitting on the bench watching McCown if this did happen.

 

 

[JustInFudge]

15 minutes ago, MDL_JET said:

Fans need to get it out of their head that because they did something in the past it automatically means they'll do it again and again and again. And maybe if we have a young QB that's actually worth playing, we could find out what Bowles would do.

I think you're being very generous here.  Mac has a trend going here. Mac is religious to the BAP.  And BAP could land the Jets firmly in drafting another defender at #6.

[Augustiniak]

6 minutes ago, JiF said:

I'm confused, what would be stupid?

I'll be very upset if the Jets spend FA money to get Sheldon back.

i think it would be stupid to sign cousins to a monster deal, then draft defense in the first round.

the economics of the nfl don't favor teams that pay guys like cousins - look at how stafford/flacco/carr are faring.  that's the comps.

the jets should draft a qb, to add to their young team, and build a new offense around that qb.  they can then use all the cap space to fortify so many other positions.  it is not a wise idea to go from purging the roster to paying the highest paid qb in the nfl.  it makes no sense and shows there is no real plan other than for the gm and hc to keep their jobs.  

[JustInFudge]

1 minute ago, Augustiniak said:

i think it would be stupid to sign cousins to a monster deal, then draft defense in the first round.

the economics of the nfl don't favor teams that pay guys like cousins - look at how stafford/flacco/carr are faring.  that's the comps.

the jets should draft a qb, to add to their young team, and build a new offense around that qb.  they can then use all the cap space to fortify so many other positions.  it is not a wise idea to go from purging the roster to paying the highest paid qb in the nfl.  it makes no sense and shows there is no real plan other than for the gm and hc to keep their jobs.  

Gotcha.  The thread posed a hypothetical..if the Jets land Cousins...hence my answer.

And I dont disagree the better route would be their own young QB.  That said, I dont trust this regime one bit with selecting the right QB at 6, nor do a trust anyone in the building has the patience/ability to develop a QB.

[K_O_Brien]

In the scenario we land Cousins, Macc would probably take Roquan Smith at six. A fine player, not exactly what we need, but hey...BAP baby!

[peebag]

On 1/30/2018 at 12:53 PM, cant wait said:

I’m thrilled with rosen or jackson at 6

Rosen and then you're set for the next decade at qb.

[MDL_JET]

9 minutes ago, JiF said:

I think you're being very generous here.  Mac has a trend going here. Mac is religious to the BAP.  And BAP could land the Jets firmly in drafting another defender at #6.

It's not being generous, it's just not being lazy in thinking how they'll progress forward. I get it, Jets fans are not the most optimistic bunch and why would anything change now?

I just can't fathom a GM being so stupid that he'd pass again on a QB and sit there trying to sell us that it was a good idea. Two years in a row. Whether they draft the RIGHT QB is a different story, but there's no way I see them passing on one. 

[Augustiniak]

7 minutes ago, JiF said:

Gotcha.  The thread posed a hypothetical..if the Jets land Cousins...hence my answer.

And I dont disagree the better route would be their own young QB.  That said, I dont trust this regime one bit with selecting the right QB at 6, nor do a trust anyone in the building has the patience/ability to develop a QB.

i actually think it's worse than this.

i think there are more than a few qbs who will pan out.  besides the top guys like darnold/rosen, you have mayfield, and then possible guys like jackson, falk and rudolph who could also pan out if handled correctly.  allen is a wildcard and too tough to speculate.

my problem is that the jets could actually draft 'the right qb' but not know what to do with him.  it's not like in the nba where even on a bad team you can tell if a guy can ball or not.  the jets could draft rosen and screw it up, b/c mccags didn't pay enough to fortify the O-line, didn't understand the need to invest in a real Te, didn't see the positional value in drafting a rb like ronald jones or michel early in the 2nd round to help the rookie qb.  i can see mccags drafting mayfield, then going defense in round 2 twice and completely not understanding that you need to keep adding more and more pieces to help the young qb.  look what the eagles did with wentz, keep adding wrs/rbs to take the pressure off.

[19andOhWait]

too bad Clelin Ferrell didn't declare. monster off the edge, would have been nice at 6. 

Arden Key seems to be losing juice, too bad, would be nice to team him up with teammate Jamal.

I've read Vita Vea losing steam as well. big heavy DT's with inconsistent motors are scary. might be a Danny Shelton type. 

[cant wait]

1 hour ago, peebag said:

Rosen and then you're set for the next decade at qb.

at first the rosen idea scared me with the “attitude” reports and everything... but I got to thinking, would we be saying the same thing about 21 year old joe namath if he was a prospect today? 

[JustInFudge]

1 hour ago, MDL_JET said:

It's not being generous, it's just not being lazy in thinking how they'll progress forward. I get it, Jets fans are not the most optimistic bunch and why would anything change now?

I just can't fathom a GM being so stupid that he'd pass again on a QB and sit there trying to sell us that it was a good idea. Two years in a row. Whether they draft the RIGHT QB is a different story, but there's no way I see them passing on one. 

No offense, I actually find it extremely lazy because you're just using hope.  Whereas, we're using a precedent based on a ideology in BAP.  Mac openly has shared that he doesnt deviate from his big board ie: Adams over Mahomes/Watson.  Couple that with Todd clearly directing the 1st round and I'm confident they're taking a defender, again.  You're hoping that "he cant be that stupid"...well...he very well could be based on the fact, he's done it before and his roster is ******* atrocious and it's not because he's drafting smart.

I'm almost willing to go all in, Cousins or not, the Jets will not be taking a QB at #6.

 

[Stark]

1 minute ago, JiF said:

No offense, I actually find it extremely lazy because you're just using hope.  Whereas, we're using a precedent based on a ideology in BAP.  Mac openly has shared that he doesnt deviate from his big board ie: Adams over Mahomes/Watson.  Couple that with Todd clearly directing the 1st round and I'm confident they're taking a defender, again.  You're hoping that "he cant be that stupid"...well...he very well could be based on the fact, he's done it before and his roster is ******* atrocious and it's not because he's drafting smart.

I'm almost willing to go all in, Cousins or not, the Jets will not be taking a QB at #6.

 

Damn you and your logic.... lol.. I hope that you lose this bet, for my sake and sanity. 

[JustInFudge]

1 minute ago, Stark said:

Damn you and your logic.... lol.. I hope that you lose this bet, for my sake and sanity. 

I said almost...

There is a lot of time between then and now...but I got a feeling Rosen and Darnold remain the #1 and #2 QB prospects throughout the process and are gone by #6 and the rest arent rated high enough for the Mac attack to take at #6 (see Watson/Mahomes) over a Vea, Fitzpatrick, Ward, Chubb, Davenport, Smith, etc. who I guarantee are rated higher than Mayfield, Allen (despite the smoke), Jackson, etc.

Smith scares me the most.  Seeing how they've ranked players in the past, Smith might be the "safest pick in the draft" staring the Jets in the face yet again just like Williams and Adams.

 

 

 

[MDL_JET]

8 minutes ago, JiF said:

I said almost...

There is a lot of time between then and now...but I got a feeling Rosen and Darnold remain the #1 and #2 QB prospects throughout the process and are gone by #6 and the rest arent rated high enough for the Mac attack to take at #6 (see Watson/Mahomes) over a Vea, Fitzpatrick, Ward, Chubb, Davenport, Smith, etc. who I guarantee are rated higher than Mayfield, Allen (despite the smoke), Jackson, etc.

Smith scares me the most.  Seeing how they've ranked players in the past, Smith might be the "safest pick in the draft" staring the Jets in the face yet again just like Williams and Adams.

 

So in this scenario, what QB would be starting for us? 

[nycdan]

28 minutes ago, MDL_JET said:

So in this scenario, what QB would be starting for us? 

Mike Glennon?  No wait...too young.  Donovan McNabb needs a job.  Let's see...there's gotta be someone we can pull off the trash heap.

[harts724]

If jets land Cousins and Rosen falls to us at 6 you grab him! If Aaron Rogers can sit for 4 years so can Rosen

[IndianaJet]

3 minutes ago, harts724 said:

If jets land Cousins and Rosen falls to us at 6 you grab him! If Aaron Rogers can sit for 4 years so can Rosen

While 100% true....Rosen might sit for 4 years then decide he’s not interested in playing football anymore. 

While I’m not a proponent of drafting a QB at 6 if we sign Cousins...Rosen would be the absolute last guy of all the top rated QBs I would want to put in that position. 

Not to mention Cousins would be furious if we did this.  Cousins is not a “I’ll help groom the young guy” kinda guy. 

[Philc1]

12 hours ago, IndianaJet said:

While 100% true....Rosen might sit for 4 years then decide he’s not interested in playing football anymore. 

While I’m not a proponent of drafting a QB at 6 if we sign Cousins...Rosen would be the absolute last guy of all the top rated QBs I would want to put in that position. 

Not to mention Cousins would be furious if we did this.  Cousins is not a “I’ll help groom the young guy” kinda guy. 

Can Rosen play in a preseason game before guys decide he is quitting football by age 23?

[JustInFudge]

15 hours ago, MDL_JET said:

So in this scenario, what QB would be starting for us? 

Not sure I know which scenario you're referring too.  We're discussing a hypothetical where the Jets sign Cousins.  So I'll go this route:

I prefer Cousins because I dont trust this regime drafting and developing a QB.

If the Jets didnt get Cousins and the draft fell the way that the thread is proposing?  I'd take Rosen 

If the Jets dont get Cousins and Rosen and Darnold are gone? Then I'm starting to warm up to the idea of Baker Mayfield at #6 however, at this point I'd probably pass on him, take BAP and target a 2-4 rd QB, Jackson, Rudolph, Faulk, White, Lauletta, etc. and bring in a Bridgewater, Keenum, Taylor, type QB to bridge the gap.  Though in this scenario I'm sure the Jets would prefer to bring McCown back.  Part of me thinks this is a very real scenario if Cousins isnt signed.

[IndianaJet]

26 minutes ago, Philc1 said:

Can Rosen play in a preseason game before guys decide he is quitting football by age 23?

Actually no, he doesn't need to.  If you read up on Rosen and his personal life, he's definitely one of these guys who clearly takes the attitude that football is not the peak of what he wants to accomplish in his life.  He could very well decide after 4 years of sitting on the bench (regardless of the whole concussion issue) that he'd rather dedicate his priorities to something else in life.

[T0mShane]

23 hours ago, Matt39 said:

Am I wrong to think this regime has zero plans on taking a QB at 6? Bowles playing a rookie over Mccown (or Keenum etc..) seems unlikely. I think it's obvious now that he's gung-ho on building his Arizona defense here. He's gotten his way in 3 straight drafts, hard to see him overruled. Gut feeling is the team takes a CB and they release the typical "Well, we really liked Mayfield/Darnold etc but we felt the value of Fitzpatrick falling to 6 was too hard to pass up" spiel and then they hedge by taking a QB with one of their extra second rounders.

For the record, I don’t think they’ll even try to draft a QB at six. They’ll go through the motions to get rejected by Cousins, sign someone like Bradford, then McCown, then use the six on Minkah. Because I enjoy chaos, I want them to have to leave Mayfield and/or Rosen on the board to take Minkah, because it will ramp up the media pressure to fire both of them. That’s why I’m anti-Cousins right now: it’s the ultimate band-aid that’ll partially cover up their piss-poor roster management.