Josh Allen

[Sonny Werblin]

4 minutes ago, Jazy8ball said:

If you’re right and Allen isn’t a good QB... Why do guys who evaluate college football players for a living value him so highly? 

I didn't say he can not be good. He's just not the 3d best QB in this class. He is 4th or 5th. He is a project, and unlike the other 4 QBs he failed to dominate play, which is especially troubling considering the tools he possesses and the fact he was playing in a non power 5 conference.

As to "evaluators", if I remember correctly, they liked jamarcus Russell for many of the same reasons.

If your gonna take a project QB in this draft, you take Jackson. If you don't think he's as accomplished a passer as Allen is right now, you've not watched him play.

[Jazy8ball]

4 minutes ago, Sonny Werblin said:

I didn't say he can not be good. He's just not the 3d best QB in this class. He is 4th or 5th. He is a project, and unlike the other 4 QBs he failed to dominate play, which is especially troubling considering the tools he possesses and the fact he was playing in a non power 5 conference.

As to "evaluators", if I remember correctly, they liked jamarcus Russell for many of the same reasons.

If your gonna take a project QB in this draft, you take Jackson. If you don't think he's as accomplished a passer as Allen is right now, you've not watched him play.

I do not watch enough college football to make my own evaluation. I just go by what I read. I assume you are in the Darnold / Rosen camp? Does the fact they have probably never played in NY cold weather concern you? 

[Sonny Werblin]

7 minutes ago, Scoop24 said:

Based on this article me we should be drafting Mason Rudolph 

Perhaps he should be rated higher. I think he gets downgraded because he didn't have a signature win, he had the best WR of all the QBs, is the least mobile, and isn't the best at any particular thing... accuracy, arm strength, reading D's, etc... If drafted by the right team with a good O line and above average targets, he could have a very good career. 

[Sonny Werblin]

4 minutes ago, Jazy8ball said:

I do not watch enough college football to make my own evaluation. I just go by what I read. I assume you are in the Darnold / Rosen camp? Does the fact they have probably never played in NY cold weather concern you? 

It's tough to evaluate guys for cold weather without having seen them play in a cold weather game. However, the truly bitterly cold games in the NFL are few and far between. And we keep seeing California QBs do just fine in.the cold i.e. Brady and Rogers. I don't really think it's an issue.

[Miss Lonelyhearts]

5 hours ago, Jimmy 2 Times said:

If the guy completed just one more pass per game (11) he's at 60.4 completion %.   

If he completes 1.5 more passes a game he's at 62% and the runaway number 1 pick.

Everything is a matter of percentage points. That's why you pay attention to them. Passing on small edges is how you lose.

[Sonny Werblin]

57 minutes ago, jetstream23 said:

The fact of the matter is this - The Jets traded up to one spot short of where they needed to be in order to guarantee getting one of the Top 2 QB prospects.  IF Rosen and Darnold are both gone at 3 then the Jets have given up a lot in order to take a 50/50 crack at whether an inaccurate QB can defy the odds can be developed by the Jets organization OR if a 6' 3/8" (that's three-eighths) can become the most successful sub-6'1" QB in NFL history.

I'm not criticizing the Jets for moving up but they've essentially done it for a much less than sure thing.

I REALLY hope one of those Top 2 guys gets to 3 but it could come down to whether they want Captain Inaccurate or Shorty McShortenstein.  

If the Giants take Barkley, Mac is a genius. If not, he bought himself a very costly lottery ticket and had better hope and pray his pick pans out. 

The more I think about it, unless Mac already knows for sure that the Giants are staying put and not selecting a QB, I think we should have stayed at 6 and just taken the QB that fell to us even if it turned out to be Jackson. Heck we could've even taken a position player and used our second round picks to trade back into the first round to take Jackson.

[Long Island Leprechaun]

41 minutes ago, Sonny Werblin said:

I'm still waiting for someone to explain what makes Allen special other than his height and arm strength.

Consistency is a red flag, most definitely, but Allen's ability to effortlessly throw lasers across the field and on a 30 yard rope, off his back foot, while running backwards (!), has to be making scouts drool. He reminds me a bit of Roethlisberger. Does he make bad decisions? Yes. They all do in college... try to do too much, especially when down. Allen has made some inexplicable throws but he has also made some throws that no one else of the top prospects can do. That's why he's jumped into the top three discussion. He's big, durable, athletic, and a good kid. He'll be a very good QB in the pro's if he's given a chance to develop; Rosen is well ahead of him in readiness, without a doubt.

[RSJ]

6 minutes ago, Long Island Leprechaun said:

Consistency is a red flag, most definitely, but Allen's ability to effortlessly throw lasers across the field and on a 30 yard rope, off his back foot, while running backwards (!), has to be making scouts drool. He reminds me a bit of Roethlisberger. Does he make bad decisions? Yes. They all do in college... try to do too much, especially when down. Allen has made some inexplicable throws but he has also made some throws that no one else of the top prospects can do. That's why he's jumped into the top three discussion. He's big, durable, athletic, and a good kid. He'll be a very good QB in the pro's if he's given a chance to develop; Rosen is well ahead of him in readiness, without a doubt.

Its funny you mention Roethlisberger because Allen reminds me of him also.

[Jethead]

So, what if Mac made the trade up now before Allen’s Pro Day because he expects it to be so productive that the price would be much higher?

 

[Philc1]

2 hours ago, Sonny Werblin said:

Will someone please explain to me why Allen's "tools" make him a candidate for the #3 pick, but Lamar Jackson's do not?

Allen looks like he’ll be more durable in the nfl.  Lamar Jackson looks frail 

[Philc1]

1 hour ago, Scoop24 said:

Lmaoo at the people comparing this kid to hackenberg that’s a very lazy take.  He does everything better than hackenberg coming out 

They are the same people who want to ban you if you mention Baker Mayfield and his idol Johnny Manziel in the same paragraph

[Philc1]

6 hours ago, Sonny Werblin said:

Mayfield is mentally tougher than Allen.

Why? Because he literally ran into a brick wall when the cops chased him?

[RSJ]

When we are done talking about the correlation between completion percentage and NFL production, can we talk about spread offense and NFL production? Because there have been some good QB's who had below average completion percentages - but I dont see many guys from spread offenses producing in the NFL. Especially 6 ft tall ones.

[jetstream23]

1 hour ago, Scoop24 said:

Lmaoo at the people comparing this kid to hackenberg that’s a very lazy take.  He does everything better than hackenberg coming out 

Agreed.  He's not Hackenberg, and that's a cop out of a comparison, but he could realistically be a Jay Cutler, probably with a better attitude though.

The question with each of these guys has to be, can the Jets correct/limit the deficiency of the guy they select?  For Allen it's can the Jets help him minimize the mental errors he seems to make and improve his accuracy and decision-making?  It's that simple.  If you can cut in half the times he decided to throw an ill-advised pass off his back foot and he can throw crisper short passes with better anticipation, then yes, he's a Top 3 guy.  If he will always trust his arm and always try to make a play even if he'd be better off throwing the ball out of bounds, we'll have a problem.

For Mayfield, I don't think the Jets can make him taller, so that's not an option.  The question with him has to be whether or not he does enough things well (creating throwing lanes, making smart decisions with the football, etc.) that he can overcome the fact that both offensive and defensive linemen are going to be 1-3 inches taller on average in the NFL than in college.

[Philc1]

7 minutes ago, RSJ said:

When we are done talking about the correlation between completion percentage and NFL production, can we talk about spread offense and NFL production? Because there have been some good QB's who had below average completion percentages - but I dont see many guys from spread offenses producing in the NFL. Especially 6 ft tall ones.

Really that’s the disconnect I see with most of these posters who think they can extrapolate college completion percentage directly to NFL completion percentage.

 

 If that’s the case Geno Smith and his 71% completion percentage at WVU should have made him a pro bowler here.  Geno also has a very good arm and was overall an excellent athlete

 

So what went wrong? The Spread Offense

 

Geno also played against soft defenses in the Big 12

 

who plays in the spread offense in the big 12 against crappy defenses? Baker Mayfield 

[Philc1]

5 minutes ago, jetstream23 said:

Agreed.  He's not Hackenberg, and that's a cop out of a comparison, but he could realistically be a Jay Cutler, probably with a better attitude though.

The question with each of these guys has to be, can the Jets correct/limit the deficiency of the guy they select?  For Allen it's can the Jets help him minimize the mental errors he seems to make and improve his accuracy and decision-making?  It's that simple.  If you can cut in half the times he decided to throw an ill-advised pass off his back foot and he can throw crisper short passes with better anticipation, then yes, he's a Top 3 guy.  If he will always trust his arm and always try to make a play even if he'd be better off throwing the ball out of bounds, we'll have a problem.

For Mayfield, I don't think the Jets can make him taller, so that's not an option.  The question with him has to be whether or not he does enough things well (creating throwing lanes, making smart decisions with the football, etc.) that he can overcome the fact that both offensive and defensive linemen are going to be 1-3 inches taller on average in the NFL than in college.

Hack and Petty busted because they simply lacked intelligence.  If you ever heard Hack talk he’s not a bright guy ditto for Bryce Petty who literally said playing Madden made him a better qb

 

I’ve only seen a couple interviews of Allen he already sounds smarter than both those clowns combined plus I think he even graduated early

[C Mart]

Anyone see any comparison between Allen and Cutler? Both strong arms w/gunslinger mentality   

Cutler had a college completion % < 58%

I throw it out because Bates / Dennison we’re basically Co-OCs in Denver ‘07-‘08 w/Cutler. 

Not saying Allen is Jets #1 (still think it’s Rosen) but O coaching staff has worked w/similar before. 

[Sonny Werblin]

1 minute ago, Philc1 said:

Really that’s the disconnect I see with most of these posters who think they can extrapolate college completion percentage directly to NFL completion percentage.

 

 If that’s the case Geno Smith and his 71% completion percentage at WVU should have made him a pro bowler here.  Geno also has a very good arm and was overall an excellent athlete

 

So what went wrong? The Spread Offense

 

who plays in the spread offense in the big 12 against crappy defenses? Baker Mayfield 

I do believe the spread O results in higher completion percentages, but that's why they run it. The NFL has changed passing schemes and concepts which have also resulted in higher completion percentages.

But, the question is not why someone's completion percentage is high. The question is why isn't Allen's higher. The answer is that he is not consistently accurate. If you have the fix for him, he's you're man. If you don't, you're ****ed.

[Sonny Werblin]

3 minutes ago, Philc1 said:

Hack and Petty busted because they simply lacked intelligence.  If you ever heard Hack talk he’s not a bright guy ditto for Bryce Petty who literally said playing Madden made him a better qb

 

I’ve only seen a couple interviews of Allen he already sounds smarter than both those clowns combined plus I think he even graduated early

I did not know he graduated early. That's a + in his column.

[Philc1]

1 minute ago, Sonny Werblin said:

I do believe the spread O results in higher completion percentages, but that's why they run it. The NFL has changed passing schemes and concepts which have also resulted in higher completion percentages.

But, the question is not why someone's completion percentage is high. The question is why isn't Allen's higher. The answer is that he is not consistently accurate. If you have the fix for him, he's you're man. If you don't, you're ****ed.

Cutler had a low completion percentage at Vanderbilt partly because he was playing with a bunch of nobodies.  Allen had a crappy O-Line and nothing WRs at Wyoming

 

Watch Allen at the Senior Bowl throwing to guys who actually are nfl-caliber players.  He looked really good

[Jethead]

Cutler was a complete asshat when he was at Vandy. No one has said similar things about Allen.

Cutler/Rosen maybe.

[Sonny Werblin]

4 minutes ago, Philc1 said:

Cutler had a low completion percentage at Vanderbilt partly because he was playing with a bunch of nobodies.  Allen had a crappy O-Line and nothing WRs at Wyoming

 

Watch Allen at the Senior Bowl throwing to guys who actually are nfl-caliber players.  He looked really good

Vanderbilt plays in a power 5 conference. Wyoming literally plays nobodies.

[C Mart]

15 minutes ago, Sonny Werblin said:

I did not know he graduated early. That's a + in his column.

That is what allowed him to play in the senior bowl. 

[legler82]

1 hour ago, Scoop24 said:

Based on this article me we should be drafting Mason Rudolph 

And there went the article's credibility.

[artemusclyde]

8 hours ago, Dcat said:

you are the one who threw Geno Smith out there.  And that was intended to further your argument.  Now that it is shot down, you divert to Mayfield also throwing more short passes.  Good.  The fact is that Allen misses a huge % of the short passes.  That's death for a QB in the NFL.  And what happens when Allen faces real NFL pass rushing pressure?  Unlike anything he experienced against  Cheyenne Community College adversaries, his accuracy may fall even further, just like Geno Smith and Kyle Boller.  At least big armed QBs like Roethlisberger had excellent completion percentages in college.  Not so with Allen. He is as much a risk as, if not moreso, Kyle Boller.

That's more of a question for Mayfield than Allen, considering how much his team dominated other teams. Allen's going to have a better o line in the NFL then what he had in college and face less pressure, unless Mayfield ends up on the Cowboys, he's going to have a worse o-line then what he had in college.

[Greenseed4]

1 hour ago, Sonny Werblin said:

More like Allen has a 103 mph fastball and Jackson is at 98.

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/news/2018-nfl-draft-rankings-accuracy-arm-strength-and-everything-to-know-about-qbs/

Sorry, too long to copy and paste on my phone. Please note how often Allen is ranked 6th or not at all in categories.

Article seems super biased to Rudolph who is, not surprisingly THEIR #1 rated QB. 

Nobody (nobody) else shares that setiment which makes the entire article (and it’s ratings) super suspect.

[T0mShane]

It’s good to know that there are 43 people on this website that could easily be tricked into swallowing their own tongue.

[Greenseed4]

40 minutes ago, C Mart said:

Anyone see any comparison between Allen and Cutler? Both strong arms w/gunslinger mentality   

Cutler had a college completion % < 58%

I throw it out because Bates / Dennison we’re basically Co-OCs in Denver ‘07-‘08 w/Cutler. 

Not saying Allen is Jets #1 (still think it’s Rosen) but O coaching staff has worked w/similar before. 

Should be noted that in 2008, Cutler was first-team Pro Bowl, and while his stats were never AMAZING, they were good enough to get the job done.

[Greenseed4]

3 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

It’s good to know that there are 43 people on this website that could easily be tricked into swallowing their own tongue.

Should add a third option to the poll:

3. Doesn’t matter we’re drafting Minkah Fitzpatrick anyway. 

 

...and then after you move your vote, litter the boards with your feelings on the matter.  And when I say “litter” T0m, I mean EVERY. chance. you. get.  

[T0mShane]

3 minutes ago, Greenseed4 said:

Should add a third option to the poll:

3. Doesn’t matter we’re drafting Minkah Fitzpatrick anyway. 

 

...and then after you move your vote, litter the boards with your feelings on the matter.  And when I say “litter” T0m, I mean EVERY. chance. you. get.  

I can do this. BRB

[Maxman]

9 hours ago, Dcat said:

can't really vote unless I know what my choices are. I think this covers most of the 2-QB combinations assuming it comes down to a 2 QB choice:

Allen vs Darnold: Darnold

Allen vs Rosen: Rosen

Allen vs Mayfield: the most likely scenario for Mac. Toughest decision of all 6.  I lean toward Mayfield.  I can't get over the how Allen struggles on short/midrange passes.  

Mayfield vs Darnold: Darnold

Mayfield vs Rosen: Rosen

Rosen vs Darnold:  least likely scenario but baby if this is the choice it would be incredible.  I lean towards Darnold but couldn't begin to defend myself if I tried.

3-way combinations are much easier:

Darnold, Mayfield, or Allen: Darnold

Darnold, Mayfield or Rosen: Darnold

Darnold, Allen or Rosen: Darnold

Rosen, Allen, or Mayfield: Rosen (this is the most likely 3-way QB choice scenario)

This.

[southtown24th]

We gotta get used to this Josh Allen guy...it's a 30-50% chance it's gonna happen...time to look at the bright side with this guy, whatever that may be...

[legler82]

4 hours ago, Gen X Jet said:

Sign me up for Allen over the California boys. 

Allen is originally from California.

[southtown24th]

1 minute ago, legler82 said:

Allen is originally from California.

welp, we're ****ed. Kidding.

[ryu79]

1 hour ago, Philc1 said:

Why? Because he literally ran into a brick wall when the cops chased him?

Is that true?