Cimini: Former Jets GM Faults Others for his Failures

[#27TheDominator]

3 hours ago, 56mehl56 said:

And 3 more the Vernon Gholston . Comparinf a CB to a safety ?

What does that mean? 7 of the top 12 were safeties in 2017

[Sperm Edwards]

22 hours ago, varjet said:

I think we overestimate what a GM alone can do when drafting.

Drafting right requires an army of people who know what they are doing.  Tanenbaum and Idzik both come from the business side.  Some GMs like Newsome come from the Scouting aide.  

Tannenbaum, Idzik and initially Macc all were saddled with the old Jet scouts-Bradway, Bauer, Clinkscales.  These guys are awful.  Only Mangini was able to push through them and find players.   With their writeups, the Jets drafted like garbage.  

Only lately does it appear that the Jets are scouting football players.  My cynical theory is that the GMs were "encouraged" by ownership to keep the existing scouts, who were under contract, around.

Just my theory.  

This excuse is simply not true and it bugs me that anyone actually gives him this unearned pass. Macc had all the access in the world to his own scouts and his own personal scouting, from spending the year with Houston as their head of college scouting. Are you suggesting in the weeks between getting hired by the Jets on January 13th and the upcoming combine 5-6 weeks later he forgot everything and burned all his own notes and deleted all his text messages and email correspondence from the entire 2015 college season (and the 2014 season before that)? 

He hired Rex Hogan as head of college scouting 2 weeks after he was named GM. Like with Maccagnan I find it ridiculous to suggest Hogan also knew absolutely nothing about the current draft class after scouting/grading them all season long. 

Right after that draft he replaced a few more, so at no time was he saddled with old Jets scouts as his only avenue for ranking/rating players. Oh yeah, and there's also an insane amount of resources online, to augment individual scouting work, which didn't exist decades ago. 

Worst of all, the first 2 prospects he took using only his hand-picked Jets scouts? Darron Lee and Christian Hackenberg; the latter a QB taken #51 in the country, who couldn't justify being #2 on the depth chart -- on a team with neither a top starter nor a decent #2 in either year he spent here. 

He's awful and is deserving of zero excuses. 

[j4jets]

On 6/17/2018 at 5:33 PM, T0mShane said:

Idzik’s front office resume:

—Young and talented Bucs team full of future HOFers that wins Super Bowl

—Young and talented Seahawks team full of future Hall of Famers that wins Super Bowl

—Locked in impossible management circumstance by Woody with idiot-in-exile manchild Rex Ryan who got three GMs fired in eight years, which is a record.

—Young and freakishly talented Jaguars team that is contending for a titles with Blake Bortles as their QB

 

I’d like to know how “freakishly talented” Jets team was when Idzik left. He stunk it up in Idzik’s 12, couldn’t get FAs except for Decker and an injury prone average at best WR was his best pick. Oh and Sheldumb. FTR, Jets still haven’t made the playoffs three years after Idzik left us with the “freakishly talented” team. But, let’s blame the buffoon HC for getting his GMs fired because he handed out guaranteed contracts to over the hill players such as Calvin Pace and “can’t wait” along with an insanely stupid contract with a bunch of guaranteed amount to Mark Sanchez. Mark. Sanchez. I’m sure that was all Rex cuz those contracts never put the Jets in any kind of bother. 

[T0mShane]

21 minutes ago, j4jets said:

I’d like to know how “freakishly talented” Jets team was when Idzik left. He stunk it up in Idzik’s 12, couldn’t get FAs except for Decker and an injury prone average at best WR was his best pick. Oh and Sheldumb. FTR, Jets still haven’t made the playoffs three years after Idzik left us with the “freakishly talented” team. But, let’s blame the buffoon HC for getting his GMs fired because he handed out guaranteed contracts to over the hill players such as Calvin Pace and “can’t wait” along with an insanely stupid contract with a bunch of guaranteed amount to Mark Sanchez. Mark. Sanchez. I’m sure that was all Rex cuz those contracts never put the Jets in any kind of bother. 

what

[jgb]

Wow what a king turd. Of course he’s also right. The coaching staff was criminally bad at development as it is now.

[Jetsplayer21]

6 hours ago, Philc1 said:

The Calvin Pryor pick is what Idzik really deserves to be destroyed over

 

How many obviously better WR prospects were available at that spot and we needed WR desperately and still do?  Our OC at the time even raved about Brandin Cooks during workouts and Kelvin Benjamin had stud written all over him. Misses in rounds 2-7 happen to everyone but botching a first round pick in a loaded draft like that is inexcusable 

I don’t know why gms listen to these D guru HCs Who of course clamor for defense in the first round every single yr ( unless it’s for a qb) not much has changed

[kelly]

ugghhhh.. 

 

[pointman]

5 hours ago, 56mehl56 said:

And 3 more the Vernon Gholston . Comparinf a CB to a safety ?

You.. do.. know.. what.. a joke.. is.. right?

 

[detectivekimble]

On June 17, 2018 at 7:51 PM, T0mShane said:

Remember when Rex got mad that Idzik wouldn’t sign DRC so Rex chose to humiliate Antonio Allen (who ran a 4.7/40) by starting him at corner? 

Not factual at all.  Idzik actually tried to sign DRC.  He tried being cute and lowballed DRC (in addition to being a terrible drafter, he was a sh*tty negotiator).  He upped his offer big time after he found out the Giants were trying to sign DRC.  But his offer didn't get to DRC until after DRC had signed with the Giants.  Incompetence at its finest. 

Then he panics and goes and signs Dimitri Patterson to start at CB, then cuts him a few months later.

[Jetmech]

https://jetswire.usatoday.com/2018/06/19/jets-taking-another-crack-at-the-2014-nfl-draft/

So much irony here. With 12 picks in that class, more than a few of these guys could've been drafted and than some...

Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk

[Jetmech]

Not factual at all.  Idzik actually tried to sign DRC.  He tried being cute and lowballed DRC (in addition to being a terrible drafter, he was a sh*tty negotiator).  He upped his offer big time after he found out the Giants were trying to sign DRC.  But his offer didn't get to DRC until after DRC had signed with the Giants.  Incompetence at its finest. 
Then he panics and goes and signs Dimitri Patterson to start at CB, then cuts him a few months later.

It was just a bad play by Woody Johnson. First getting rid of Mike T. at a pivotal juncture to the GM/coach combination. I know it's past tense but Mike T. should have stayed that year and see what he would do in that draft. Probably Rex would've been fired the following year. Just a bad chain of events.

Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk

[kelly]

7 hours ago, Philc1 said:

Enjoy picking up those Starbucks orders in Jacksonville Idzik

he's there..

...4 sure    ?

[T0mShane]

6 hours ago, detectivekimble said:

Not factual at all.  Idzik actually tried to sign DRC.  He tried being cute and lowballed DRC (in addition to being a terrible drafter, he was a sh*tty negotiator).  He upped his offer big time after he found out the Giants were trying to sign DRC.  But his offer didn't get to DRC until after DRC had signed with the Giants.  Incompetence at its finest. 

Then he panics and goes and signs Dimitri Patterson to start at CB, then cuts him a few months later.

This is the article I was referring to in my original post: Idzik massively low-balled DRC because DRC is and was a monster flake, and the “anonymous source” in this story is clearly Rex whining that Idzik wisely didn’t beat the Giants massive offer. Idzik offered a one year, $6 mil deal and the Giants forked over $35 mil guaranteed for DRC to go there and be the soft, disruptive fruitcake he’s been his entire career. 

http://www.nj.com/jets/index.ssf/2014/03/nfl_free_agency_2014_as_jets_lose_cornerback_dominique_rodgers-cromartie_to_giants_source_says_of_ge.html

The Jets did not land yet another free agent cornerback Monday, when 

Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie agreed to sign with the Giants.

There is an increasing sense of frustration about how Jets general manager John Idzik, as he prepares for his second season on the job, is handling the search for a new No. 1 corner, especially since the Jets have about $27.9 million in salary cap space, according to overthecap.com. 

The Jets losing Rodgers-Cromartie to the Giants is underscored by the fact that coach Rex Ryan's defense is predicated on man-to-man coverage by his corners – and that is a particularly strong area of Rodgers-Cromatie's game, according to a source with knowledge of the situation.

Ryan, with a contract extension that reportedly lacks fully guaranteed money past 2015, is essentially coaching for his job again in 2014. He needs to win now, so he needs an elite corner to help a defense that ranked 22nd in the NFL in passing yards allowed last year. 

Moreover, Idzik's inability to land Rodgers-Cromartie, who visited with the Jets and Giants over the weekend, will be highlighted by the corner's presence on the roster of New York's other NFL franchise, the source said.

"This is on him," the source said of Idzik, as Rodgers-Cromartie decided to stay in town, but with the Giants rather than the Jets

 

 

[BROOKLYN JET]

On 6/17/2018 at 7:19 PM, T0mShane said:

Yes. A team stocked with Quentin Copleses and Scotty McKnights would have owned 

And Terminator.

[jgb]

10 hours ago, detectivekimble said:

Not factual at all.  Idzik actually tried to sign DRC.  He tried being cute and lowballed DRC (in addition to being a terrible drafter, he was a sh*tty negotiator).  He upped his offer big time after he found out the Giants were trying to sign DRC.  But his offer didn't get to DRC until after DRC had signed with the Giants.  Incompetence at its finest. 

Then he panics and goes and signs Dimitri Patterson to start at CB, then cuts him a few months later.

Idzik wasn't just a bad negotiator... he refused to negotiate at all. He developed his player valuations in a vacuum and was too stubborn to budge after the market clearly indicated that he was dramatically undervaluing players. There's a difference between being principled and being obtuse.

13 hours ago, Philc1 said:

Geno would have sucked anywhere and Garropolo would have been fine here.  Cassell, Mallet and Hoyer all stunk despite being touched by the great Belichick 

#MeToo

[j4jets]

11 hours ago, T0mShane said:

what

Yeah, too much thinking is involved. 

[nyjunc]

23 hours ago, Philc1 said:

The Calvin Pryor pick is what Idzik really deserves to be destroyed over

 

How many obviously better WR prospects were available at that spot and we needed WR desperately and still do?  Our OC at the time even raved about Brandin Cooks during workouts and Kelvin Benjamin had stud written all over him. Misses in rounds 2-7 happen to everyone but botching a first round pick in a loaded draft like that is inexcusable 

of course but that entire draft was a disaster.  that draft could have built the core for a really good team and instead we got a decent WR in a WR draft stocked w/ top guys.

21 hours ago, 56mehl56 said:

And again flip the scenarios , put Geno in Foxboro and Jimmy G in Florham Park. Who knows how that pans out for either QB. Players that get drafted into the NFL have obvious talent , there are many factors that go into whether or not that player takes the next step.  The coaching , environment and system that a player is in certainly plays a large part. 

Under BB from Cle to NE there have been 2 good QBs "developed"- Brady and Garrapolo. 

21 hours ago, 56mehl56 said:

You can thank Rex for that he wanted his Louisville slugger. 

Rex wasn't the GM and Rex had zero power under Idzik who was sabotaging him trying to fire Rex so rex gets zero credit for that pick.

19 hours ago, johnnysd said:

No. Just no on any level. Rex was a dumpster fire and Tannenbaum was an attention whore. Rex was an abysmal coach that destroyed this team. Unlike most head coaches he actually got worse the more he coached. Not saying Bowles is much better Woody had a knack for being wowed by conservative defensive minded turds of head coaches thinking they will be the next Parcells which is not something we should really be looking for anyway. And Rex was a complete dumpster fire in Buffalo and is essentially done as a coach in the NFL.

yes Rex destroyed the team by leading us to back to back title games and getting us closer to a SB than at any point post SB III.

"not saying Bowles is much better...- what??????  Bowles isn't half the coach Rex is, In Bowles' only "good" season(thanks to cake sched) rex w/ half the talent around him swept him including a win and in game week 17 where half of Rex's team was out injured.

Rex in 7 full seasons had just 2 losing seasons, Bowles in 3 seasons as a HC has 2 losing seasons. Rex had faults but Rex got his players to play, he once led the Jets to 8 wins w/ a rookie Geno Smith at QB, he has the most playoff wins in franchise history, he led us into Foxboro and beat a 14-2 Brady led Pats team which oh by the way is the LAST time the Pats didn't make it as far as the AFC Championship Game but yeah Bowles isn't much better

 

 

[nyjunc]

18 hours ago, 56mehl56 said:

I'm not sure Rex was even a little better, he had the benefit of a good OLine and consistent run game otherwise he was nothing to write home about. Bottom line they both suck .

we had the same OL in 2008 w/ Brett Favre at QB, no Brady around and much easier schedule.  How did that season work out?

Our run game wasn't consistent, it was flashy and put up some big games but it wasn't consistent. 

Oh and he won a playoff game on the road at Foxboro w/ Wayne Hunter starting.

On ‎6‎/‎17‎/‎2018 at 6:33 PM, T0mShane said:

Idzik’s front office resume:

—Young and talented Bucs team full of future HOFers that wins Super Bowl

—Young and talented Seahawks team full of future Hall of Famers that wins Super Bowl

—Locked in impossible management circumstance by Woody with idiot-in-exile manchild Rex Ryan who got three GMs fired in eight years, which is a record.

—Young and freakishly talented Jaguars team that is contending for a titles with Blake Bortles as their QB

 

[jamesr]

18 hours ago, billo83 said:

No, it is on Idziot. He makes the final decision. If he didn't like Pryor he could have selected someone else or trade the pick. Idziot has more than just Rex in the war room and pre-draft. If he doesn't listen to the right people it's on him,  period. 

If you read articles from that time (Warning : Do not try this at home!  ) you'll find it was Idzik that saw Pryor play and phoned up Rex all giddy about this great talent that he'd unearthed. So yes, that pick is on Idzik. He spotted him, sold him to his HC (not difficult, obviously) and drafted him.

And it's not like he even worked out OK but was a bit overdrafted, he was a flat out bust when he made the NFL.

[Philc1]

22 hours ago, 56mehl56 said:

You can thank Rex for that he wanted his Louisville slugger. 

You mean Rex the guy who wanted to draft Russell Wilson over Stephen Hill but was overruled because we traded for the owner’s hero Tebow?

[Philc1]

39 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

of course but that entire draft was a disaster.  that draft could have built the core for a really good team and instead we got a decent WR in a WR draft stocked w/ top guys.

Under BB from Cle to NE there have been 2 good QBs "developed"- Brady and Garrapolo. 

Rex wasn't the GM and Rex had zero power under Idzik who was sabotaging him trying to fire Rex so rex gets zero credit for that pick.

yes Rex destroyed the team by leading us to back to back title games and getting us closer to a SB than at any point post SB III.

"not saying Bowles is much better...- what??????  Bowles isn't half the coach Rex is, In Bowles' only "good" season(thanks to cake sched) rex w/ half the talent around him swept him including a win and in game week 17 where half of Rex's team was out injured.

Rex in 7 full seasons had just 2 losing seasons, Bowles in 3 seasons as a HC has 2 losing seasons. Rex had faults but Rex got his players to play, he once led the Jets to 8 wins w/ a rookie Geno Smith at QB, he has the most playoff wins in franchise history, he led us into Foxboro and beat a 14-2 Brady led Pats team which oh by the way is the LAST time the Pats didn't make it as far as the AFC Championship Game but yeah Bowles isn't much better

 

 

If you rank coaches since SB3 the top 2 are Parcells and then Rex.  Not even a debate

[Philc1]

29 minutes ago, jamesr said:

If you read articles from that time (Warning : Do not try this at home!  ) you'll find it was Idzik that saw Pryor play and phoned up Rex all giddy about this great talent that he'd unearthed. So yes, that pick is on Idzik. He spotted him, sold him to his HC (not difficult, obviously) and drafted him.

And it's not like he even worked out OK but was a bit overdrafted, he was a flat out bust when he made the NFL.

Ultimately Idzik was the GM he owns every pick.  This is true of every GM

[detectivekimble]

17 hours ago, T0mShane said:

This is the article I was referring to in my original post: Idzik massively low-balled DRC because DRC is and was a monster flake, and the “anonymous source” in this story is clearly Rex whining that Idzik wisely didn’t beat the Giants massive offer. Idzik offered a one year, $6 mil deal and the Giants forked over $35 mil guaranteed for DRC to go there and be the soft, disruptive fruitcake he’s been his entire career. 

http://www.nj.com/jets/index.ssf/2014/03/nfl_free_agency_2014_as_jets_lose_cornerback_dominique_rodgers-cromartie_to_giants_source_says_of_ge.html

 

 

Not the full story.  Idzik increased his offer to DRC big time and DID beat the Giants offer. He wanted DRC and bungled the whole situation.  The offer got to DRC AFTER DRC signed with the Giants.  I forget all the details, but it really showed how incompetent the guy was.  Even Woody the buffoon lost faith in the guy after one year.  

I don't think Mac is the guy either, but he's going to leave the Jets an attractive job for the next guy (coughHeimerdingercough).

[T0mShane]

36 minutes ago, detectivekimble said:

Not the full story.  Idzik increased his offer to DRC big time and DID beat the Giants offer. He wanted DRC and bungled the whole situation.  The offer got to DRC AFTER DRC signed with the Giants.  I forget all the details, but it really showed how incompetent the guy was.  Even Woody the buffoon lost faith in the guy after one year.  

I don't think Mac is the guy either, but he's going to leave the Jets an attractive job for the next guy (coughHeimerdingercough).

Wait what? Idzik went from $6 mil to over $35 gtd at the last minute? Seems...unlikely 

[56mehl56]

11 hours ago, Philc1 said:

You mean Rex the guy who wanted to draft Russell Wilson over Stephen Hill but was overruled because we traded for the owner’s hero Tebow?

I thought it was Bradway that wanted Wilson and everyone else ignored him. 

[T0mShane]

13 hours ago, Philc1 said:

You mean Rex the guy who wanted to draft Russell Wilson over Stephen Hill but was overruled because we traded for the owner’s hero Tebow?

This is nine miles of untruth

[nyjunc]

23 hours ago, Philc1 said:

If you rank coaches since SB3 the top 2 are Parcells and then Rex.  Not even a debate

Parcells is the better coach BUT Rex had more success here so we'd have to rank Rex 1.

 

 

On this DRC debate, I think Idzik made the wise move, DRC was not worth what NYG paid him and we would have overpaid.  idzik did everything right(for the most part) until that disastrous draft which set this franchise back, ended Rex and idzik and started a new rebuilding phase.

[Philc1]

49 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

Parcells is the better coach BUT Rex had more success here so we'd have to rank Rex 1.

 

 

On this DRC debate, I think Idzik made the wise move, DRC was not worth what NYG paid him and we would have overpaid.  idzik did everything right(for the most part) until that disastrous draft which set this franchise back, ended Rex and idzik and started a new rebuilding phase.

I actually agreed with Idzik there and still do. DRC sucked on the Giants I don’t get how he would have been such a difference maker here and the giants had a pass rush to help him out

 

We should have signed Revis in 2014.  That and signing Desean Jackson would have prevented the 4-12 season

 

[Philc1]

10 hours ago, T0mShane said:

This is nine miles of untruth

What like Mangini’s win loss record in Cleveland?

[Philc1]

12 hours ago, 56mehl56 said:

I thought it was Bradway that wanted Wilson and everyone else ignored him. 

Both Rex and Broadway wanted Russel Wilson and Rex publicly bashed the Stephen Hill pick

[Sperm Edwards]

On 6/19/2018 at 2:42 PM, detectivekimble said:

Not factual at all.  Idzik actually tried to sign DRC.  He tried being cute and lowballed DRC (in addition to being a terrible drafter, he was a sh*tty negotiator).  He upped his offer big time after he found out the Giants were trying to sign DRC.  But his offer didn't get to DRC until after DRC had signed with the Giants.  Incompetence at its finest. 

Then he panics and goes and signs Dimitri Patterson to start at CB, then cuts him a few months later.

He did a pretty good job of negotiating for Revis, considering only 1 team was interested and was refusing to give up more than a 2nd rounder for weeks.

Patterson was just a weird situation. He was an experienced pro - not great, but not unreasonable as a 1 yr cheap stopgap - and then he unexpectedly went nuts (he wasn't purely cut just because of an unexcused absence; nobody does that). Something snapped, as he retired from football outright right after that. Obviously it wasn't a good signing, and even if he stuck for the year no one expected great things, but it was bizarre to say the least.

DRC was an easy signing in hindsight, but at the time he wasn't without risk, and 3 prior teams were willing to move on from him. He'd just turned down a 6 year $54m contract from Denver (who then gave around that deal to Talib). The Giants' offer contained twice the signing bonus of the team that just had him in their locker room, and they wouldn't go higher even after they cut Champ Bailey. He was a very up & down player, and after just 2 years the Giants went hard after 2 new CBs in 2016 (Apple & Jenkins). Clearly a better signing than the bust pickup of Patterson, and not remotely the only bad decision Idzik made, but it's one of those signings that seems better after the fact. 

What can one say? The Jets' team history isn't littered with great GMing. 

[detectivekimble]

21 hours ago, T0mShane said:

Wait what? Idzik went from $6 mil to over $35 gtd at the last minute? Seems...unlikely 

I promise you, DRC would have signed with the Jets had Idzik's offer gotten there on time.  The idea that it was Idzik who passed on DRC could not be further from the truth.  No, it was Idzik's **** up that stopped DRC from becoming a Jet.

 

[T0mShane]

6 hours ago, detectivekimble said:

I promise you, DRC would have signed with the Jets had Idzik's offer gotten there on time.  The idea that it was Idzik who passed on DRC could not be further from the truth.  No, it was Idzik's **** up that stopped DRC from becoming a Jet.

 

I’m not doubting your sourcing, and there are a million reasons to crush Idzik’s performance here, but I can’t imagine Idzik losing a player because of a procedural error. Perhaps this was just something they told Rex after the fact to calm him down, like when a parent tells a kid they can’t bring the pony home from the farm because it’s not for sale.

[August]

16 hours ago, Philc1 said:

I actually agreed with Idzik there and still do. DRC sucked on the Giants I don’t get how he would have been such a difference maker here and the giants had a pass rush to help him out

 

We should have signed Revis in 2014.  That and signing Desean Jackson would have prevented the 4-12 season

 

But we were rebuilding in 2014. We sign Desean Jackson and Revis and maybe go 6-10, 7-9?

[Philc1]

Just now, August said:

But we were rebuilding in 2014. We sign Desean Jackson and Revis and maybe go 6-10, 7-9?

We went 8-8 with a garbage roster and Geno the year before.  2014 happened because Idzik kept whiffing in the draft and chose to sit on $30 million in cap space