Cimini: Former Jets GM Faults Others for his Failures

[Patriot Killa]

What picks have made any kind of impact on another team besides Sheldon Richardson and  maaaybe Tommy Bohannon in that one game?

Aside from Enunwa, all of them were cut relatively young in their careers. I suspect they still had a chance to be groomed properly by other coaching staffs and yet they didn’t .. is that the Jets fault too?

Yeah, Rex Ryan wasn’t terrific by any means during that’s 2012-2014 stretch and rightfully got axed( silently waiting for nyjunc show now.) but you mean to tell me you picked Calvin Pryor over Brandin Cooks knowing that you needed to draft a young Geno Smith some kind of dynamic weapon..more importantly you didn’t hit on a single of the top WR’s nor second tier ones(per draft status) in a unprecedentedly quality WR class............ with a top 15 pick.

[southparkcpa]

19 hours ago, Fantasy Island said:

He had 12 picks that he could have made into 7 quality picks by trading up.  That bufoon Rex had influence too.  He could have had a hobo pick the players for MD 20/20 a pop and we would have had a better draft.

That’s a low blow to hobos. 

[Freemanm]

14 hours ago, T0mShane said:

Remember when Rex got mad that Idzik wouldn’t sign DRC so Rex chose to humiliate Antonio Allen (who ran a 4.7/40) by starting him at corner? 

But, but but Idzik drafted Mevis and Cro's' heir apparents, Dee Milliner and Dexter MacDougal!

[#27TheDominator]

I am not sure how my I hate @T0mShane post ended up in the Brandon Copeland thread.  Ugh. 

[Sperm Edwards]

1 hour ago, billo83 said:

Idziot shouldn't even get credit for clearing up the cap. The salary structures of the players dumped were set up so that they could be easily cut when Idziot took over. Any of us here could have made the same moves as he did and cleared the cap. That was set up by Tanny, another favorite of Mrs. Idziot. 

My recollection is the opposite. I'm not going to search around now (you're welcome to), but after seeing the roster purged, Tannenbaum himself said he wouldn't have had to clean house, and that restructuring this or that player could have gotten the Jets under the cap and staying competitive. Of course that would have led to an even bigger piper to pay a year or two later, as he was all too happy to double down on Sanchez because he thought he was getting in early with a bargain contract extension.

Whatever. It's in the past. I miss neither of them right now, and certainly won't miss the current GM either when he's gone. 

Much like January 2013, the Jets again missed a perfect opportunity to clean house at both HC and GM, and offer an incoming duo a clean slate with plenty of room for improvement and few contract/draft albatrosses from the prior regime.

It doesn't take 10 years to get out from under bad drafts, despite the hyperboles to the contrary. A couple decent drafts plus wise moves in FA (finding a QB from one of the two methods), and any team can be a SB contender. 

[southparkcpa]

15 hours ago, T0mShane said:

Yes. A team stocked with Quentin Copleses and Scotty McKnights would have owned 

And the great John Conner...who is a personal REX pick. Heck, compared to the iDzik 12, Connor is a HOF player. 

[#27TheDominator]

10 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

My recollection is the opposite. I'm not going to search around now (you're welcome to), but after seeing the roster purged, Tannenbaum himself said he wouldn't have had to clean house, and that restructuring this or that player could have gotten the Jets under the cap and staying competitive. Of course that would have led to an even bigger piper to pay a year or two later, as he was all too happy to double down on Sanchez because he thought he was getting in early with a bargain contract extension.

Whatever. It's in the past. I miss neither of them right now, and certainly won't miss the current GM either when he's gone. 

Much like January 2013, the Jets again missed a perfect opportunity to clean house at both HC and GM, and offer an incoming duo a clean slate with plenty of room for improvement and few contract/draft albatrosses from the prior regime.

It doesn't take 10 years to get out from under bad drafts, despite the hyperboles to the contrary. A couple decent drafts plus wise moves in FA (finding a QB from one of the two methods), and any team can be a SB contender. 

I think the truth is somewhere in between. My recollection was that Tannebaum said that he had a plan regarding the cap - meaning that many of the cuts Idzik made were no brainers and that with some restructuring the cap position was not as dire as advertised.  Cro and Scott were obvious cuts.  A Santonio Holmes restructure was also obvious. Same with Pace.  

Agree completely on this "set us back 10 years" nonsense.  You can completely overhaul a roster in 3 years.  That is completely, 100%. A team should be competitive by the 2nd year. 

[JohnnyLV]

7 hours ago, nyjunc said:

Idzik was the worst thing to ever happen to this franchise.  we had a good coach, we had the opportunity to stockpile talent in that incredible draft and somehow he managed to blow it setting us back at least 5 years.  The moment we went from the good Jets back to the pre Parcells bad Jets was when we fired Tannenbaum and hired Idzik.

Lol no. Keeping Rex was the worst move the Jets have made in recent memory. It set us back a half decade at least and forced us into Idzik.  Rex was a HORRID coach and had way way too much influence on the drafts.

That said, all of the bad decisions by Woody led to Chris and Darnold so its all good.

 

[varjet]

I think we overestimate what a GM alone can do when drafting.

Drafting right requires an army of people who know what they are doing.  Tanenbaum and Idzik both come from the business side.  Some GMs like Newsome come from the Scouting aide.  

Tannenbaum, Idzik and initially Macc all were saddled with the old Jet scouts-Bradway, Bauer, Clinkscales.  These guys are awful.  Only Mangini was able to push through them and find players.   With their writeups, the Jets drafted like garbage.  

Only lately does it appear that the Jets are scouting football players.  My cynical theory is that the GMs were "encouraged" by ownership to keep the existing scouts, who were under contract, around.

Just my theory.  

[pointman]

Damn does Milliner suck.

[Sperm Edwards]

4 hours ago, #27TheDominator said:

I think the truth is somewhere in between. My recollection was that Tannebaum said that he had a plan regarding the cap - meaning that many of the cuts Idzik made were no brainers and that with some restructuring the cap position was not as dire as advertised.  Cro and Scott were obvious cuts.  A Santonio Holmes restructure was also obvious. Same with Pace.  

Agree completely on this "set us back 10 years" nonsense.  You can completely overhaul a roster in 3 years.  That is completely, 100%. A team should be competitive by the 2nd year. 

and Revis. 

We didn't cut Cro after 2012; he was restructured as well. He also probably would have restructured Harris (IIRC he counted like $13m in 2013 after Tannenbaum insanely guaranteed like 75% of his contract). Probably others. But he wasn't going to gut the roster. It was not structured to cut everyone; it was structured with the idea of restructuring most everyone so we could compete that year, with Sanchez at QB. 

[varjet]

3 hours ago, pointman said:

Damn does Milliner suck.

He was defensive player of the week one week.

I don't know what the explanation for that is.  

[NJ]

Just so it stings worse .. I'll throw in there we could have taken Garoppolo before either of the first 2 pieces of feces.

I know  - nobody knew he was.......   wrong  ... somebody knew he was ..

[pointman]

1 hour ago, varjet said:

He was defensive player of the week one week.

I don't know what the explanation for that is.  

Well, to be fair.. in that one season he actually played.. he had more INTs (3) than Jamal Adams has had his entire NFL career.

[Pac]

23 hours ago, T0mShane said:

Here is the stat, btw:

Winning percentages as head coach of the NYJ:

Eric Mangini: .479

Rex Ryan: .479

Herm Edwards: .488

I like this stat.

Rex and Tanny: .531

Rex and the worst GM in the history of the NFL: .437

 

[56mehl56]

11 hours ago, jamesr said:

Players picked not long after the Jets picks in 2014:

1. Brandin Cooks

2. Davante Adams / Allen Robinson / Jimmy Garoppolo / Jarvis Landry

3. Gabe Jackson / John Brown

4. Martavis Bryant / James White

And that's without much effort ...

Also, the following are now on the Jets roster  :

 

But you can do that for any team in the league , the draft outside of a few bluechippers is always a crapshoot.

[56mehl56]

1 hour ago, NJ said:

Just so it stings worse .. I'll throw in there we could have taken Garoppolo before either of the first 2 pieces of feces.

I know  - nobody knew he was.......   wrong  ... somebody knew he was ..

Do you think Garoppolo would have been developed by Rex/Bowles . He'd probably be cleaning pools with Hack this summer. 

[nyjunc]

16 hours ago, johnnysd said:

Lol no. Keeping Rex was the worst move the Jets have made in recent memory. It set us back a half decade at least and forced us into Idzik.  Rex was a HORRID coach and had way way too much influence on the drafts.

That said, all of the bad decisions by Woody led to Chris and Darnold so its all good.

 

Rex won 8 games with Geno Smith as our starting QB.  Rex was a good HC, Tannenbaum a good GM.  Our owner made a huge mistake firing Tannenbaum after 1 bad season then hiring Idzik who then tried to sabotage Rex and instead sabotaged Rex AND himself.

 

led to Chris? who is Chris? you aren't referring to the acting owner, are you?  You can't be serious?

[jamesr]

10 hours ago, 56mehl56 said:

But you can do that for any team in the league , the draft outside of a few bluechippers is always a crapshoot.

Exactly - the original post was trying to boost Idzik by showing that the guys taken at the spot after each of his 12 were nothing much; you can play this either way BUT the point remains that Idzik had 12 picks and barely managed one decent player out of all that.

[nyjunc]

13 hours ago, varjet said:

He was defensive player of the week one week.

I don't know what the explanation for that is.  

Ryan Tannehill

16 hours ago, varjet said:

I think we overestimate what a GM alone can do when drafting.

Drafting right requires an army of people who know what they are doing.  Tanenbaum and Idzik both come from the business side.  Some GMs like Newsome come from the Scouting aide.  

Tannenbaum, Idzik and initially Macc all were saddled with the old Jet scouts-Bradway, Bauer, Clinkscales.  These guys are awful.  Only Mangini was able to push through them and find players.   With their writeups, the Jets drafted like garbage.  

Only lately does it appear that the Jets are scouting football players.  My cynical theory is that the GMs were "encouraged" by ownership to keep the existing scouts, who were under contract, around.

Just my theory.  

The old scouts helped us draft really well for a long time which led to the greatest stretch in Jets history.  after those guys came on board from 2001-2010(10 seasons) we made the playoffs 6 times winning 6 playoff games, a div title and appearing in 2 AFC Championship Games.  from 1960-2000(41 seasons) we made the playoffs a total of 8 times winning 6 playoff games. 

we went for it from 2008-2011 spending big and trading away picks which was leading to a rebuild, instead of allowing the GM that built the 2 title game teams to rebuild/retool again we handed it over to Idzik who totally destroyed us.

By the way, in that stretch we drafted a lock HOFer, the first Jets drafted HOFer since John Riggins(who became a HOfer for his work in DC) in the early 70s and look up how many all pro selections from players 1960-200 and 2001 until Bradway left.  It is a HUGE difference so we mostly drafted well in that era, it is a complete myth about the old scouts and those scouts were fired over 3 years ago yet we have seen zero progress w/ this franchise on the field.  we have hope b/c we were terrible last year, made a nice trade into the top 3 and the giants were dumb enough to take a RB rather than the QB which they desperately needed.

[Philc1]

Enjoy picking up those Starbucks orders in Jacksonville Idzik

[nyjunc]

10 hours ago, 56mehl56 said:

But you can do that for any team in the league , the draft outside of a few bluechippers is always a crapshoot.

of course you can but we had TWELVE picks in one of the strongest drafts in recent memory and all we have is Enunwa who is a good WR but that draft produced superstars at WR all throughout.

10 hours ago, 56mehl56 said:

Do you think Garoppolo would have been developed by Rex/Bowles . He'd probably be cleaning pools with Hack this summer. 

it's not like NE is known for developing QBs so chances are Jimmy could have succeeded here BUT we had the great Geno Smith drafted by Idzik so we weren't looking for a QB at that time.

[Philc1]

7 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

of course you can but we had TWELVE picks in one of the strongest drafts in recent memory and all we have is Enunwa who is a good WR but that draft produced superstars at WR all throughout.

it's not like NE is known for developing QBs so chances are Jimmy could have succeeded here BUT we had the great Geno Smith drafted by Idzik so we weren't looking for a QB at that time.

The Calvin Pryor pick is what Idzik really deserves to be destroyed over

 

How many obviously better WR prospects were available at that spot and we needed WR desperately and still do?  Our OC at the time even raved about Brandin Cooks during workouts and Kelvin Benjamin had stud written all over him. Misses in rounds 2-7 happen to everyone but botching a first round pick in a loaded draft like that is inexcusable 

[56mehl56]

1 hour ago, jamesr said:

Exactly - the original post was trythe ing to boost Idzik by showing that the guys taken at the spot after each of his 12 were nothing much; you can play this either way BUT the point remains that Idzik had 12 picks and barely managed one decent player out of all that.

And I agree "missing" on 12 picks is pretty hard to do, but maybe just maybe there is some weight in Idzik's or Mehta's words in that you would think an NFL coaching staff could help develop at least one of them. 

[56mehl56]

1 hour ago, nyjunc said:

of course you can but we had TWELVE picks in one of the strongest drafts in recent memory and all we have is Enunwa who is a good WR but that draft produced superstars at WR all throughout.

it's not like NE is known for developing QBs so chances are Jimmy could have succeeded here BUT we had the great Geno Smith drafted by Idzik so we weren't looking for a QB at that time.

And again flip the scenarios , put Geno in Foxboro and Jimmy G in Florham Park. Who knows how that pans out for either QB. Players that get drafted into the NFL have obvious talent , there are many factors that go into whether or not that player takes the next step.  The coaching , environment and system that a player is in certainly plays a large part. 

[56mehl56]

1 hour ago, Philc1 said:

The Calvin Pryor pick is what Idzik really deserves to be destroyed over

 

How many obviously better WR prospects were available at that spot and we needed WR desperately and still do?  Our OC at the time even raved about Brandin Cooks during workouts and Kelvin Benjamin had stud written all over him. Misses in rounds 2-7 happen to everyone but botching a first round pick in a loaded draft like that is inexcusable 

You can thank Rex for that he wanted his Louisville slugger. 

[56mehl56]

14 hours ago, pointman said:

Well, to be fair.. in that one season he actually played.. he had more INTs (3) than Jamal Adams has had his entire NFL career.

And 3 more the Vernon Gholston . Comparinf a CB to a safety ?

[JohnnyLV]

4 hours ago, nyjunc said:

Rex won 8 games with Geno Smith as our starting QB.  Rex was a good HC, Tannenbaum a good GM.  Our owner made a huge mistake firing Tannenbaum after 1 bad season then hiring Idzik who then tried to sabotage Rex and instead sabotaged Rex AND himself.

 

led to Chris? who is Chris? you aren't referring to the acting owner, are you?  You can't be serious?

No. Just no on any level. Rex was a dumpster fire and Tannenbaum was an attention whore. Rex was an abysmal coach that destroyed this team. Unlike most head coaches he actually got worse the more he coached. Not saying Bowles is much better Woody had a knack for being wowed by conservative defensive minded turds of head coaches thinking they will be the next Parcells which is not something we should really be looking for anyway. And Rex was a complete dumpster fire in Buffalo and is essentially done as a coach in the NFL.

[Philc1]

2 hours ago, 56mehl56 said:

And again flip the scenarios , put Geno in Foxboro and Jimmy G in Florham Park. Who knows how that pans out for either QB. Players that get drafted into the NFL have obvious talent , there are many factors that go into whether or not that player takes the next step.  The coaching , environment and system that a player is in certainly plays a large part. 

Geno would have sucked anywhere and Garropolo would have been fine here.  Cassell, Mallet and Hoyer all stunk despite being touched by the great Belichick 

[Philc1]

7 minutes ago, johnnysd said:

No. Just no on any level. Rex was a dumpster fire and Tannenbaum was an attention whore. Rex was an abysmal coach that destroyed this team. Unlike most head coaches he actually got worse the more he coached. Not saying Bowles is much better Woody had a knack for being wowed by conservative defensive minded turds of head coaches thinking they will be the next Parcells which is not something we should really be looking for anyway. And Rex was a complete dumpster fire in Buffalo and is essentially done as a coach in the NFL.

Meanwhile Rex is still a significantly better head coach than Bowles

[56mehl56]

41 minutes ago, Philc1 said:

Geno would have sucked anywhere and Garropolo would have been fine here.  Cassell, Mallet and Hoyer all stunk despite being touched by the great Belichick 

Its possible but I think coming out of college Geno was a better prospect than some of those including Jacoby Brissett who looked pretty good under the Pats system. Also I want to see what Jimmy G looks like after teams have some real game film on him now. 

[56mehl56]

46 minutes ago, Philc1 said:

Meanwhile Rex is still a significantly better head coach than Bowles

I'm not sure Rex was even a little better, he had the benefit of a good OLine and consistent run game otherwise he was nothing to write home about. Bottom line they both suck .

[billo83]

1 hour ago, johnnysd said:

No. Just no on any level. Rex was a dumpster fire and Tannenbaum was an attention whore. Rex was an abysmal coach that destroyed this team. Unlike most head coaches he actually got worse the more he coached. Not saying Bowles is much better Woody had a knack for being wowed by conservative defensive minded turds of head coaches thinking they will be the next Parcells which is not something we should really be looking for anyway. And Rex was a complete dumpster fire in Buffalo and is essentially done as a coach in the NFL.

He may be done as a HC but he'll get another gig as DC if he wants to

[billo83]

3 hours ago, 56mehl56 said:

You can thank Rex for that he wanted his Louisville slugger. 

No, it is on Idziot. He makes the final decision. If he didn't like Pryor he could have selected someone else or trade the pick. Idziot has more than just Rex in the war room and pre-draft. If he doesn't listen to the right people it's on him,  period. 

[Paradis]

On 6/17/2018 at 3:34 PM, Beerfish said:

The idzik draft truly was a cfl development draft.  Yet another, jarvis harrison is playing for Saskatchewan.

That was a heinous awful draft and idzik deserved to be canned as a result, everything else he did okay imo.  Got lots of picks, jettisoned dead wood.

great bean counter - terrible talent evaluator. I don't know why those Fcks can't just concede this point and hire someone who can. There's lots of good personnel czars out there who can step in and take the load off.

For all his "accolades" as a scouting guru, MacCagnan has been more Idzik than Ron Wolf at this point.