Draft Elimination Round 1: T0mShane vs. greenwichjetfan

[Jetsfan80]

RND 1:  @T0mShane vs. @greenwichjetfan

JN: vote on who's all time drafted team you feel would win the match up.... you're assuming each player is entering this match up in their prime.

 

T0mShane

 

DE: Dwight Freeney, Colts

NT: Vince Wilfork, Patriots

DT: Clyde Simmons, Eagles

DE: Reggie White, Eagles, Packers

LB: Sean Lee, Cowboys

LB: Sam Mills, Saints, Panthers

OLB: Karl Mecklenburg, Broncos

CB: Champ Bailey, Redskins, Broncos

CB: Albert Lewis, Chiefs

FS: Ken Houston, Oilers, Redskins

SS: David Fulcher, Bengals

 

OLT: Jim Lachey, Redskins

OG: Max Montoya, Bengals, Raiders

Ctr: Kevin Mawae, Jets 

OG: Larry Allen, Cowboys

ORT: Erik Williams, Cowboys

TE: Keith Jackson, Eagles, Dolphins

WR: Al Toon, Jets

WR: Anquan Boldin, Cardinals

RB: Jamal Lewis, Ravens

RB: Tony Dorsett, Cowboys

QB: Ben Roethlisberger, Steelers 

 

 

greenwichjetfan

 

I’ll have CJ and Demaryius on the outsides and Sterling in the a lot. On defense, the strong side LB and weak side LB will both be playing on the strong side (the side where the TE lines up, and NaVorro will assume his normal MLB position.

Other than that, pretty self explanatory. 

[New York Mick]

Have to go with Tom. The right side of his line is sick blocking for Dorsett and Lewis. The passrush will be a handful. 

[Jetsfan80]

I guess I'm in the minority here, but I went with greenwich.  His offensive line is beastly, and I don't see Shane's secondary handling all those weapons. 

[UntouchableCrew]

I like Greenwich. He has the better offensive line and the scarier weapons.

[T0mShane]

24 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

I guess I'm in the minority here, but I went with greenwich.  His offensive line is beastly, and I don't see Shane's secondary handling all those weapons. 

Also, you’re 19 years old. 

[Scott Dierking]

So wait, Shane harps on Darron Lee for physical prowess, yet stuffs Sam Mills in the middle of his defense?

[T0mShane]

My thoughts when building the team:

1. I wanted to run the old-school Chuck Noll Steelers rushing offense with play action, so everyone I drafted on that side of the ball is physical as ****.

2. Each offensive lineman is from a historically great rushing attack: Larry Allen and Erik Williams from the Jimmy Johnson Cowboys; Jim Lachey from the Gibbs Redskins: Max Montoya from the Ickey Woods Bengals (and Raiders); and obviously Mawae. 

3. Dorsett and Jamal Lewis will beat you to death.

4. Receivers Al Toon, Anquan Boldin, and Keith Jackson are all physical freaks who can block and still catch everything thrown at them.

4. On defense, I wanted a hybrid 4-3 that could be physical on running downs, but could also get after you on third down. Freeney can flex out to a 3-4 OLB, with Clyde Simmons sliding over to his 3-4 RDE spot.

4. Behind those guys are two of the smartest, most instinctive ILBs to ever play the game in Sean Lee and Sam Mills. Mecklenburg was the most feared pass rusher on those Orange Crush Broncos defense besides.

5. In the secondary, all tall, physical ball hawks that could tackle. Champ Bailey and Albert Lewis in the outside are two lockdown press guys, and Ken Houston made the Hall by picking off some of the great quarterbacks of all time in the 70’s and 80’s. The kids might not remember David Fulcher, but he was Steve Atwater if Steve Atwater wasn’t a liability against the pass.

[HessStation]

My mind shifts to what bothers me most as I look at these things. Sorry but everyone’s teams are so stacked it’s just where it goes. 

Tom: Mecklenburg at 43OLB is a bad fit. Him and Sam Mills both inside in a 34 would have been huge. Both a bit out of position for me.

Greenwhich: but you do the same thing taking two elite 34 OLBs and place them in a 43...80 did the exact same thing. Seymour’s greatness came from being in a 34 at DE. Another bad scheme fit. Also Polamalu would get lit as a FS. Greenwich’s names on D are ridiculous but they’re sorta hodgepodged together in the wrong schemes/fit.

 

Greenwhich has probably one of the best teams by name recognition, but why why not go with Fouts or Stabler over Wilson. Would have been so much sexier imo.

 

Seriously, if Greenwhich just made his d a 34, moved Darnold to 5 tech (which is more believable imo) and found a true NT and anothe 34 ILB...OMG. Legit terror of a d

 

Greenwhich has one of my favorite OL so far.  But Tom’s right side. 

 

Tom has my favorite DL so far...

Tom also has my two favorite pairings of corners in the draft (I think). 

[Jets Voice of Reason]

Can we talk about how sick the pass rush is for both these teams? 

Also i think i have to come to terms with the fact that there are simply no easy matchups. Everyone has loaded squads. 

 

[SouthernJet]

 

[T0mShane]

26 minutes ago, HessStation said:

Tom: Mecklenburg at 43OLB is a bad fit. Him and Sam Mills both inside in a 34 would have been huge. Both a bit out of position for me.

Fair point. I was going to be a pure 3-4 defense, but when it came time to pick an OLB, the pickings were slim and I couldn’t pass on Clyde Simmons. The compromise is having Freeney play the old elephant role and keeping Mecklenburg at LOLB. 

[Patriot Killa]

36 minutes ago, HessStation said:

My mind shifts to what bothers me most as I look at these things. Sorry but everyone’s teams are so stacked it’s just where it goes. 

Tom: Mecklenburg at 43OLB is a bad fit. Him and Sam Mills both inside in a 34 would have been huge. Both a bit out of position for me.

Greenwhich: but you do the same thing taking two elite 34 OLBs and place them in a 43...80 did the exact same thing. Seymour’s greatness came from being in a 34 at DE. Another bad scheme fit. Also Polamalu would get lit as a FS. Greenwich’s names on D are ridiculous but they’re sorta hodgepodged together in the wrong schemes/fit.

 

Greenwhich has probably one of the best teams by name recognition, but why why not go with Fouts or Stabler over Wilson. Would have been so much sexier imo.

 

Seriously, if Greenwhich just made his d a 34, moved Darnold to 5 tech (which is more believable imo) and found a true NT and anothe 34 ILB...OMG. Legit terror of a d

 

Greenwhich has one of my favorite OL so far.  But Tom’s right side. 

 

Tom has my favorite DL so far...

Tom also has my two favorite pairings of corners in the draft (I think). 

He must be bigger in person.

[HessStation]

38 minutes ago, Patriot Killa said:

He must be bigger in person.

Meh, you're probably right. He's look weird as a 5tech, but him inside forced 3 of his better players out of position (Ware, Brazile and Seymour). And to a lesser degree even Bowman...

[HessStation]

Honestly if Greenwhich took Randy Gradishar (the centerpiece to the Orange Crush) who wasn't even drafted somehow, Ware, Grad, Bowman, Brazile would be an elite 34 LB group. Seymour is an all time 34DE. Man...I'm not sure Donald would be worth it. Was WIlfork still available when he took Donald? Anyway, I may be nitpicking to some but jmo and having fun w this thing

[slats]

1 hour ago, HessStation said:

Greenwhich has probably one of the best teams by name recognition, but why why not go with Fouts or Stabler over Wilson. Would have been so much sexier imo.

I can't believe some of these QBs got picked while Fouts is still out there. That's the guy I thought @JiF was targeting, and then I thought he just fell into gjf's hands. 

[HessStation]

Just now, slats said:

I can't believe some of these QBs got picked while Fouts is still out there. That's the guy I thought @JiF was targeting, and then I thought he just fell into gjf's hands. 

After the draft was over I was mad that I could have taken either Fouts or Stabler in the last round. 

[Long Island Leprechaun]

1 hour ago, T0mShane said:

My thoughts when building the team:

1. I wanted to run the old-school Chuck Noll Steelers rushing offense with play action, so everyone I drafted on that side of the ball is physical as ****.

2. Each offensive lineman is from a historically great rushing attack: Larry Allen and Erik Williams from the Jimmy Johnson Cowboys; Jim Lachey from the Gibbs Redskins: Max Montoya from the Ickey Woods Bengals (and Raiders); and obviously Mawae. 

3. Dorsett and Jamal Lewis will beat you to death.

4. Receivers Al Toon, Anquan Boldin, and Keith Jackson are all physical freaks who can block and still catch everything thrown at them.

4. On defense, I wanted a hybrid 4-3 that could be physical on running downs, but could also get after you on third down. Freeney can flex out to a 3-4 OLB, with Clyde Simmons sliding over to his 3-4 RDE spot.

4. Behind those guys are two of the smartest, most instinctive ILBs to ever play the game in Sean Lee and Sam Mills. Mecklenburg was the most feared pass rusher on those Orange Crush Broncos defense besides.

5. In the secondary, all tall, physical ball hawks that could tackle. Champ Bailey and Albert Lewis in the outside are two lockdown press guys, and Ken Houston made the Hall by picking off some of the great quarterbacks of all time in the 70’s and 80’s. The kids might not remember David Fulcher, but he was Steve Atwater if Steve Atwater wasn’t a liability against the pass.

That secondary is really good.

[HawkeyeJet]

Very close one.  I went back and forth before I decided.  Nice work fellas.

[New York Mick]

2 minutes ago, slats said:

I can't believe some of these QBs got picked while Fouts is still out there. That's the guy I thought @JiF was targeting, and then I thought he just fell into gjf's hands. 

Apparently QB doesn’t matter as much as passrush judging by votes. The first thing I said when I saw Wilson was why. 

[Long Island Leprechaun]

Where are the old timers?

[HessStation]

2 minutes ago, New York Mick said:

Apparently QB doesn’t matter as much as passrush judging by votes. The first thing I said when I saw Wilson was why. 

ME too. But I also said the same thing when Tom drafted Ben in the second round. 

[HawkeyeJet]

7 minutes ago, New York Mick said:

Apparently QB doesn’t matter as much as passrush judging by votes. The first thing I said when I saw Wilson was why. 

This sounds like Sour grapes.....

[T0mShane]

19 minutes ago, HessStation said:

ME too. But I also said the same thing when Tom drafted Ben in the second round. 

I mean, Ben’s a first ballot Hall of Famer and the best (legitimate) QB of the last decade. I was concerned about getting stuck with, like, Jim Plunkett if I waited on the QB, especially after taking Reggie White in the first. 

[BigO]

32 minutes ago, slats said:

I can't believe some of these QBs got picked while Fouts is still out there. That's the guy I thought @JiF was targeting, and then I thought he just fell into gjf's hands. 

After all of this,  I kicked myself in the head and thought about Fouts. Don’t even think he was taken. Remarkable.

[BigO]

2 hours ago, T0mShane said:

Also, you’re 19 years old. 

Wow he’s pretty mature for a 19 year old. Coulda fooled me. 

[slats]

39 minutes ago, New York Mick said:

Apparently QB doesn’t matter as much as passrush judging by votes. The first thing I said when I saw Wilson was why. 

In this league, I would've taken LT #1 overall and QB last. 

9 minutes ago, BigO said:

After all of this,  I kicked myself in the head and thought about Fouts. Don’t even think he was taken. Remarkable.

He was Marino before Marino. Randall Cunningham got picked, though...

[BigO]

2 minutes ago, slats said:

In this league, I would've taken LT #1 overall and QB last. 

He was Marino before Marino. Randall Cunningham got picked, though...

Yea I’d gave to now agree with that strategy. I remember Fouts. He was insane for a few years. Winslow and Jefferson were unstoppable! Came within an eyelash if taking Jefferson. One of my favorite WR’s of all time. 

 

[Long Island Leprechaun]

25 minutes ago, BigO said:

After all of this,  I kicked myself in the head and thought about Fouts. Don’t even think he was taken. Remarkable.

I mentioned in the discussion thread and listed all the QB's not taken that should have been on the radar screen. In the first round it seemed like there was going to be a run on QB's so it was hard not to jump in and get somebody. Looking back, I agree that it was not necessary. If this was a 32 team tournament, I'd stick with getting one early, but with 22 there was still high quality out there to be gotten.

[New York Mick]

17 minutes ago, slats said:

In this league, I would've taken LT #1 overall and QB last. 

Only LT not Jones or White. 

[T0mShane]

25 minutes ago, BigO said:

Wow he’s pretty mature for a 19 year old. Coulda fooled me. 

He’s actually 30 but grew up in an isolated Amish community with no television.

[BigO]

3 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

He’s actually 30 but grew up in an isolated Amish community with no television.

30? Coulda fooled me. Guess he watches the games on a library PC.

 

[JustInFudge]

1 hour ago, slats said:

I can't believe some of these QBs got picked while Fouts is still out there. That's the guy I thought @JiF was targeting, and then I thought he just fell into gjf's hands. 

So I'll explain this because it was actually down to those 2 when I picked.  Obviously, Fouts operating that offense with my personnel would have been amazing to watch and that was actually my plan when the QB's I really wanted started flying off the board.  It just so happened I was having dinner with my folks right around this pick, my Pops is 82.  So I asked him, who would you rather have Jurgs or Fouts?  He said Jurgs without hesitation. 

I take my Pops word for a lot of sports that happened before my time but he said nobody could throw the ball like Jurgs.  He was the best pure passer he's ever seen.  Before Namath, Marino, Moon - it was Sonny.  He was doing things in an era that was unheard of and he did it mostly on bad teams. He's never seen a QB with a better spiral, placement, long ball, etc.  Whereas he thought Fouts was a system guy that didnt really have anything magical about his game the way Sonny did. He said watching Sonny was like a guy playing a different sport. 

It made me look it up and then I started seeing quotes from people about Jurgs...like Lombardi, Shula, etc. and then I watched some NFL films on him and just fell in love with the dude.  He's just a regular Joe who loved booze and woman who just happened to have a gift from god attached to his shoulder.  Whereas, when I did the same with Fouts, I came away hating him.  Just seemed like an arrogant big mouth who choked in the big moments. 

 

[BigO]

3 hours ago, Scott Dierking said:

So wait, Shane harps on Darron Lee for physical prowess, yet stuffs Sam Mills in the middle of his defense?

Sam Mills was like the little engine that could. 

[chirorob]

3 hours ago, New York Mick said:

Have to go with Tom. The right side of his line is sick blocking for Dorsett and Lewis. The passrush will be a handful. 

I kind of agree with that.  

My knock on Tom's team, he doesn't have a real deep weapon.   Toon was great, but not a real deep WR, Anquan the same.  

Greenwich kind of has 3-4 olbs playing in a 4-3 type.   Elvis wasn't a real big guy, I think he'd get swallowed up by that line.   I like Russell Wilson, but I think it's too early to put him in the top 25 of all time conversation.

Both guys did a good job.   Again, it's not an easy vote.

[Beerfish]

If Shane would have went with Darron Lee rather than Sean Lee he would have got my vote but as it is greenwhich has the better team imo.