Another Macc bust ends up in the minor leagues

[Jetsfan80]

4 minutes ago, JoJoTownsell1 said:

Dude, that doesn't quantify all their draft picks.

You could have the most players still in the league and none of them very good. You could have the least amount of players in the league but those that are in the league are elite.  

For example, I rather have Darnold/Adams than 7 jags that lingered in the league for 5 years playing special teams.  

 

Yes, it does.  It means that no GM drafted more terrible players than Macc has.  No GM has drafted more players where the other 31 teams decided "not good enough". 

And a lot of those players Macc drafted DID hang around on a few teams playing special teams, like you describe.  ArDarius Stewart and Chad Hansen come to mind.  They were then later cut when someone else came along who did the job better. 

And even the Jets have determined many of them not to be good enough.  We rank 22nd in teams that still have drafted players on their own roster.

You have no leg to stand on in this debate.  Do your own analysis to prove Macc is good if you feel so strongly about it.  I presented the information and you're rejecting it because you don't like it and don't "feel" like Macc has done poorly. 

[nico002]

He was a late round pick that suffered a devastating injury. The fact that he contributed at all is a good thing. But year- lets blame Mac. 

[JustInFudge]

2 minutes ago, JoJoTownsell1 said:

Dude, that doesn't quantify all their draft picks.

You could have the most players still in the league and none of them very good. You could have the least amount of players in the league but those that are in the league are elite. 

For example, I rather have Darnold/Adams than 7 jags that lingered in the league for 5 years playing special teams. 

Lol what, you know the answer to all these ridiculous hypotheticals.  The Jets during Mac's tenure have the 3rd most losses in the NFL.  I'm going to go out and a limb and say, he's not doing very well.

 

[JustInFudge]

Just now, nico002 said:

He was a late round pick that suffered a devastating injury. The fact that he contributed at all is a good thing. But year- lets blame Mac. 

He was a 3rd round pick.  lmfao

[Jetsfan80]

1 minute ago, nico002 said:

He was a late round pick that suffered a devastating injury. The fact that he contributed at all is a good thing. But year- lets blame Mac. 

3rd round is "late round" now?

What'll you be saying about Nathan Shepherd when he inevitably proves to be another terrible pick?

[Jetmech]

All of those situations really hurt this roster and lead to where we are today.  Look at the positions those guys played in summary....
WR, WR, WR
Edge/OLB, Edge/OLB
OG
CB
QB, QB
Take a look at that list and then think about what problems Macc has been forced to solve through trading and FA because of all those busts.....We signed a $30M WR3 and still have no WR1, we still have no outside pass rush and will likely have to use the #3 overall pick to get one, we just traded for a $10M OG, we're struggling to find a CB2, and we traded a boatload of picks and had to go "All In" in the 2018 draft to try to solve the QB problem.

Unfortunately, Mac took over after Mike T started to suck and Izdick couldn’t draft 12 players in a semi deep draft. Mac comes along and does the same circle jerk.

Jets haven’t drafted well since 2007!! 2007


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[Jetsfan80]

12 minutes ago, JiF said:

Lol what, you know the answer to all these ridiculous hypotheticals.  The Jets during Mac's tenure have the 3rd most losses in the NFL.  I'm going to go out and a limb and say, he's not doing very well. 

 

And he talks about "elite" talent too, as if Macc has done such a swell job bringing that in via the draft.

Is there a single player outside of Darnold that Macc has drafted who we could trade for, say, an early-mid 1st round pick right now?  MAYBE Jamal Adams? 

Elite talent, lol.  Not only does Macc draft more busts than anyone, he very rarely drafts a player who out-performs his draft slot.  So, you know, he doesn't do anything well in the draft. 

But whatever, the rebuild didn't start till last April anyways. 

[jetscrazey]

12 minutes ago, nico002 said:

He was a late round pick that suffered a devastating injury. The fact that he contributed at all is a good thing. But year- lets blame Mac. 

3rd round picks are not "late."

[jetscrazey]

12 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

3rd round is "late round" now?

What'll you be saying about Nathan Shepherd when he inevitably proves to be another terrible pick?

True, Shephard is already well on the path to bust-dom.  I don't think we heard from him after September.

[bealeb319]

 
Yes, it does.  It means that no GM drafted more terrible players than Macc has.  No GM has drafted more players where the other 31 teams decided "not good enough". 
And a lot of those players Macc drafted DID hang around on a few teams playing special teams, like you describe.  ArDarius Stewart and Chad Hansen come to mind.  They were then later cut when someone else came along who did the job better. 
And even the Jets have determined many of them not to be good enough.  We rank 22nd in teams that still have drafted players on their own roster.
You have no leg to stand on in this debate.  Do your own analysis to prove Macc is good if you feel so strongly about it.  I presented the information and you're rejecting it because you don't like it and don't "feel" like Macc has done poorly. 

The argument you presented is flawed for many reasons. 1) teams do not select the same amount of players, a team with 12 picks in the draft is bound to have a few end up being contributors even idzick hit on one. 2) remaining on a roster is not always an indication of a players worth, the raiders traded Mack away he was not a miss but is also no longer on their roster. Players who are meh or developmental might end up on a roster longer than they should and sometimes decent players get cut for seemingly no reason. I don't think Macc has done a great job drafting but the argument is flawed. Additionally i believe it is unfair to judge him heavily on his first draft because he kept the old scouting team that year instead of tearing it down a month before the draft.

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[JoJoTownsell1]

15 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

Yes, it does.  It means that no GM drafted more terrible players than Macc has.  No GM has drafted more players where the other 31 teams decided "not good enough". 

And a lot of those players Macc drafted DID hang around on a few teams playing special teams, like you describe.  ArDarius Stewart and Chad Hansen come to mind.  They were then later cut when someone else came along who did the job better. 

And even the Jets have determined many of them not to be good enough.  We rank 22nd in teams that still have drafted players on their own roster.

You have no leg to stand on in this debate.  Do your own analysis to prove Macc is good if you feel so strongly about it.  I presented the information and you're rejecting it because you don't like it and don't "feel" like Macc has done poorly. 

You can't pick one statistic and claim it properly quantifies every metric you should use to judge a GM's draft. It would  be as dumb as someone saying that since Macc has a good hit rate on his 1st round picks that therefore he is a great GM. 

 

[Bleedin Green]

8 minutes ago, JoJoTownsell1 said:

You can't pick one statistic and claim it properly quantifies every metric you should use to judge a GM's draft. It would  be as dumb as someone saying that since Macc has a good hit rate on his 1st round picks that therefore he is a great GM. 

 

How about him having the job for going on 5 years now, and the roster is in no way better than the one he inherited, with the sole exception of Darnold?

[nico002]

15 minutes ago, jetscrazey said:

3rd round picks are not "late."

3rd round picks historically have a 27% chance of becoming a starter (for DL)

 

3rd Round - OL (40%) TE (39%) LB (34%) DL (27%) WR (25%) DB (24%) QB (17%) RB (16%)

[JoJoTownsell1]

Just now, Bleedin Green said:

How about him having the job for going on 5 years now, and the roster is in no way better than the one he inherited, with the sole exception of Darnold?

I think the roster is significantly better today than it was when he first took the Job. You remember the team Idzik left us?  

Either way, you can't just poopoo Darnold. If he is our franchise QB for the next decade it may be the single most important move/pick this team has ever made. You can't gloss over that because he hasn't hit on 3rd/4th round picks. 

 

[Creepy Lurker]

27 minutes ago, nico002 said:

He was a late round pick that suffered a devastating injury. The fact that he contributed at all is a good thing. But year- lets blame Mac. 

3rd round picks aren’t considered “late round picks”. The top 100 players in the draft or first 3 rounds, are crucial for finding starters. 

[Larz]

48 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

He's 26 and was a 3rd round pick.  He's no longer young, and based on his draft slot, he shouldn't be there. 

Ok cool. 

Now what? 

[GREENBEAN]

1 hour ago, Jet Nut said:

So injury had nothing to do with Smith busting?

Yeah, must have been the handful of games he was healthy that did it.

There's so much to blame Macc for you don't need to make shlt up

Didn't Smith have a rib puncture his lung in his first training camp?  I can't look it up at the moment, but it was something like that.  That one sucked.  Poor kid never really got a chance to play. His body wouldn't let him right from the gate. 

[Philc1]

29 minutes ago, JiF said:

He was a 3rd round pick.  lmfao

So?  A 3rd round pick usually develops into at the very least a serviceable starter

[JustInFudge]

Just now, Philc1 said:

So?  A 3rd round pick usually develops into at the very least a serviceable starter

So he wasnt a late round pick, like Nico said.

[Philc1]

5 minutes ago, nico002 said:

3rd round picks historically have a 27% chance of becoming a starter (for DL)

 

3rd Round - OL (40%) TE (39%) LB (34%) DL (27%) WR (25%) DB (24%) QB (17%) RB (16%)

What percentage aren’t even in the nfl after 3 years?

[Philc1]

Just now, JiF said:

So he wasnt a late round pick, like Nico said.

Good organizations don’t usually blow 2nd and 3rd round picks on losers like Hackenberg, Smith and Mauldin

[jetstream23]

1 hour ago, T0mShane said:

(He doesn’t really do well in round one either)

Leo Williams -  B

Darron Lee - C-

J. Adams - B+

S. Darnold - B+

I agree that it could be better, but for a team that in recent years has used 1st round picks on Kyle Wilson, Dee Milliner, Vernon Gholston, Quinton Coples, and Calvin Pryor he has pulled off a minor miracle in finding 4 consecutive starters.  The quality of those starters can certainly be debated but all 4 of those guys belong in the NFL and belong starting.

[Bleedin Green]

Just now, JoJoTownsell1 said:

I think the roster is significantly better today than it was when he first took the Job. You remember the team Idzik left us?  

Either way, you can't just poopoo Darnold. If he is our franchise QB for the next decade it may be the single most important move/pick this team has ever made. You can't gloss over that because he hasn't hit on 3rd/4th round picks. 

 

What you think is unfortunately not supported by any actual evidence, considering how awful the team has been for years now.

As far as Darnold is concerned, no matter how great he ends up being, one move does not make up for endless incompetence of everything else being done.  Especially not when that move was heavily dependent on pure luck of a player who was widely projected to go #1 falling to the #3 spot that was traded for a month before the draft.  A player Maccagnan himself has admitted he had no expectation of being there for them.

There have been plenty of great NFL QBs who have been seen as having (relatively) disappointing team success, thanks in large part to the mediocre-at-best team surrounding them that they end up having to carry throughout their careers.  I'd rather Darnold not be wasted in that way because of Maccagnan's inability to do his own job.

[jetstream23]

35 minutes ago, Jetmech said:

 

Unfortunately, Mac took over after Mike T started to suck and Izdick couldn’t draft 12 players in a semi deep draft. Mac comes along and does the same circle jerk.

Jets haven’t drafted well since 2007!! 2007


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I'm cautiously optimistic that he found 2 quality longterm starters in Darnold and Herndon last year.  Cannon and Nickerson should be contributors but their longterm value is sketchy.  I have no idea about Shepherd and Fatukasi.

[Beerfish]

24 minutes ago, bealeb319 said:

 

 

The argument you presented is flawed for many reasons. 1) teams do not select the same amount of players, a team with 12 picks in the draft is bound to have a few end up being contributors even idzick hit on one. 2) remaining on a roster is not always an indication of a players worth, the raiders traded Mack away he was not a miss but is also no longer on their roster. Players who are meh or developmental might end up on a roster longer than they should and sometimes decent players get cut for seemingly no reason. I don't think Macc has done a great job drafting but the argument is flawed. Additionally i believe it is unfair to judge him heavily on his first draft because he kept the old scouting team that year instead of tearing it down a month before the draft.

Sent from my LGUS991 using JetNation.com mobile app
 

 

Know why the jets don't have those picks to play with?

Their picks fail, thus they have to spend big bucks on FA, thus they get no compensatory picks.  Also their picks are so bad they have to just cut them and they do not get signed by other teams thus no compensatory picks.

[T0mShane]

46 minutes ago, JoJoTownsell1 said:

You could have the least amount of players in the league but those that are in the league are elite. 

Son, you may want to sit down. I have some news for you.

[Philc1]

2 minutes ago, jetstream23 said:

I'm cautiously optimistic that he found 2 quality longterm starters in Darnold and Herndon last year.  Cannon and Nickerson should be contributors but their longterm value is sketchy.  I have no idea about Shepherd and Fatukasi.

Last year was by far Mac’s best draft

I’m hoping Nickerson steps up because it looks like he’s going to be our starting nickel

[T0mShane]

8 minutes ago, jetstream23 said:

Leo Williams -  B

Darron Lee - C-

J. Adams - B+

S. Darnold - B+

I agree that it could be better, but for a team that in recent years has used 1st round picks on Kyle Wilson, Dee Milliner, Vernon Gholston, Quinton Coples, and Calvin Pryor he has pulled off a minor miracle in finding 4 consecutive starters.  The quality of those starters can certainly be debated but all 4 of those guys belong in the NFL and belong starting.

“Belongs in the NFL” is literally the lowest possible bar for a top ten pick and it shows how beaten up Jets fans have been by the franchise.

[mrcoops]

2 minutes ago, Philc1 said:

Last year was by far Mac’s best draft

I’m hoping Nickerson steps up because it looks like he’s going to be our starting nickel

He will have to beat out Poole first. Nickerson has potential though.  With Poole only on a 1-year deal, Nickerson has a great chance to nail down the future nickel job.

[MDL_JET]

Mac hasn't been great but meh, he's gotten us good players to build on. He for sure needs to do a lot better but if he can have a Colts/Saints type draft where he hits on 3 picks really well....we're good to go! Mac Daddy 2019 here we come

[Jetmech]

I'm cautiously optimistic that he found 2 quality longterm starters in Darnold and Herndon last year.  Cannon and Nickerson should be contributors but their longterm value is sketchy.  I have no idea about Shepherd and Fatukasi.

 

I agree, I’m not including last years draft yet since it’s early but I have a good feeling on the players you mentioned. I hope the new coaching staff gives Cannon an opportunity because he could be a sleeper.

 

 

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[jetscrazey]

13 minutes ago, GREENBEAN said:

Didn't Smith have a rib puncture his lung in his first training camp?  I can't look it up at the moment, but it was something like that.  That one sucked.  Poor kid never really got a chance to play. His body wouldn't let him right from the gate. 

It didn't help that for his first 2 seasons, the Jets QB ended up being Ryan Fitzpatrick, who throws a poor deep ball.  Going deep was Smith's one strength.

[Philc1]

1 minute ago, mrcoops said:

He will have to beat out Poole first. Nickerson has potential though.  With Poole only on a 1-year deal, Nickerson has a great chance to nail down the future nickel job.

I thought Nickerson showed potential last year and let’s face it it’s physically impossible for him to be as bad as Skrine

[Philc1]

3 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

“Belongs in the NFL” is literally the lowest possible bar for a top ten pick and it shows how beaten up Jets fans have been by the franchise.

The jets have had some really really awful drafts going back to 1983

 

It’s so bad people here still defend Darron Lee

[jeremy2020]

52 minutes ago, JoJoTownsell1 said:

Dude, that doesn't quantify all their draft picks.

You could have the most players still in the league and none of them very good. You could have the least amount of players in the league but those that are in the league are elite. 

For example, I rather have Darnold/Adams than 7 jags that lingered in the league for 5 years playing special teams. 

keep moving those goalposts for Mac. I'm sure he appreciates you being the only one to believe he's a good GM. Not even his mom thinks he's good at it.