Kelechi Osemele (shoulder) wants to have surgery despite team doctors ruling he could play through his injury

[LIJetsFan]

Two people with identical injuries (per MRI or whatever other lab testing used) could/might/may have markedly different limitations or lack there of.

95% of NFL players who are on fan's radar screens are millionaires.  Their body is their business model and it is up to them to maintain it.  If he doesn't want to play and then he should settle with his team.  The doctors can't be the deciders.  The player is the decider.  Do want the team asks or take a hit on your million dollar contract.               

[sec101row23]

When it comes to a torn labrum, there are MANY different degrees of severity.  If you take an MRI of every NFL players’ labrum, especially offensive linemen, you will find most have some sort of tears in them.  It usually comes down to pain tolerance as you can play through them until they become too severe and the pain is too much.  It also depends on where the tear is as if it’s a SLAP tear, posterior tear or a Bankart tear.   
 

I just went through this with my son last fall as he tore his labrum playing summer baseball and missed out on what would have been his freshman season in college.   

[More Cowbell]

1 hour ago, varjet said:

What we are seeing in the NFL is a continued social evolution and a generation that is used to thinking more individuallly and less deferentially to “the Man.”   Teams have abused their right to make players play through injuries, but obviously there is potential for players to abuse this as well.  Didn’t Brian Winters play through a torn abdominal muscle a few years ago, and we wondered how he did that (while also playing pretty terribly)?

I am actually somewhat ignorant about what the official policy is, but David Chao seems to think (likely without all of the information) that the Jets are behaving badly.  

I would think the only way to really manage this is to have an independent board decide these disputes, and in the event a player elects surgery with a medical basis that can be played through, the team and player should split the comp.  That should incentivize the team and player to act fairly.  The player by making that decision would be damaging his reputation and future market value, maybe.  

The thing is, if Winters wanted to play through it, it was his choice, he chose to do this, but it appears the Jets are trying to influence Osemele's decision which in the case of Osemele should be his. It is very possible with this decision that he cannot even lift his arm without a lot of pain or being shot with a lot of pain killers. He know how much it hurts and he might think it will be a lot worse at the end of the season. The NFL has not done former players any favors. A lot of them have trouble walking and are getting no assistance  from the league. This is a fact that these players live with. It is why Furgy retired when he did, he said he was a worried about his future health. KO may not be mulling retirement  but he is possibly thinking he may want use of that shoulder later in life. As some who did major ligament  damage to my ankle playing basketball, I know muscle  tears don't  ever heal back 100% and I have big issues with that foot now and I stopped playing basketball after that happened. KO is not going to stop playing football. 

This should be left to him. It is laughable  that this is detrimental  to the team

[Skeptable]

10 hours ago, Raideraholic said:

Go ahead and force K Osemele to play, and do you know whose going to suffer - Sam Darnold.      Do you really want a disgruntled offensive lineman blocking for your franchise Qb.       

Hey the Osemele  trade didn’t work out for the Jets, move on , and try again next year to address the offense line. 

He isn't going to play... Nor will make him active... This is simply to stop him from screwing over the jets for pay while recovers

[Ohio State NY Jets fan]

This is a battle not worth fighting, it's not like he was playing great football before he went out and forcing him to play will not improve his performance - could get Sam killed - not worth it

I get the frustration for the Jets and maybe it was worth pointing out that Osemele is basically stealing money from the Jets, and that might have been the plan all along but it's a typical Mac move, he got played, Al Davis laughing from the grave (Raiders got a 5th) - time to move on

 

[Skeptable]

24 minutes ago, More Cowbell said:

The thing is, if Winters wanted to play through it, it was his choice, he chose to do this, but it appears the Jets are trying to influence Osemele's decision which in the case of Osemele should be his. It is very possible with this decision that he cannot even lift his arm without a lot of pain or being shot with a lot of pain killers. He know how much it hurts and he might think it will be a lot worse at the end of the season. The NFL has not done former players any favors. A lot of them have trouble walking and are getting no assistance  from the league. This is a fact that these players live with. It is why Furgy retired when he did, he said he was a worried about his future health. KO may not be mulling retirement  but he is possibly thinking he may want use of that shoulder later in life. As some who did major ligament  damage to my ankle playing basketball, I know muscle  tears don't  ever heal back 100% and I have big issues with that foot now and I stopped playing basketball after that happened. KO is not going to stop playing football. 

This should be left to him. It is laughable  that this is detrimental  to the team

Then get surgery... The Jets shouldn't be forced to pay the rest of his contract for11 million dollars because he wants surgery... Again most people in America won't get paid for surgery and recovery time while they are out... 

[Skeptable]

1 minute ago, Ohio State NY Jets fan said:

This is a battle not worth fighting, it's not like he was playing great football before he went out and forcing him to play will not improve his performance - could get Sam killed - not worth it

I get the frustration for the Jets and maybe it was worth pointing out that Osemele is basically stealing money from the Jets, and that might have been the plan all along but it's a typical Mac move, he got played, Al Davis laughing from the grave (Raiders got a 5th) - time to move on

 

Jets aren't going to play him... They are forcing him to make a decision... Get surgery on your own dime or play football... If he practices then they will probably make him inactive on Monday. 

[Skeptable]

1 hour ago, LIJetsFan said:

Two people with identical injuries (per MRI or whatever other lab testing used) could/might/may have markedly different limitations or lack there of.

95% of NFL players who are on fan's radar screens are millionaires.  Their body is their business model and it is up to them to maintain it.  If he doesn't want to play and then he should settle with his team.  The doctors can't be the deciders.  The player is the decider.  Do want the team asks or take a hit on your million dollar contract.               

Exactly this

[Skeptable]

2 hours ago, varjet said:

What we are seeing in the NFL is a continued social evolution and a generation that is used to thinking more individuallly and less deferentially to “the Man.”   Teams have abused their right to make players play through injuries, but obviously there is potential for players to abuse this as well.  Didn’t Brian Winters play through a torn abdominal muscle a few years ago, and we wondered how he did that (while also playing pretty terribly)?

I am actually somewhat ignorant about what the official policy is, but David Chao seems to think (likely without all of the information) that the Jets are behaving badly.  

I would think the only way to really manage this is to have an independent board decide these disputes, and in the event a player elects surgery with a medical basis that can be played through, the team and player should split the comp.  That should incentivize the team and player to act fairly.  The player by making that decision would be damaging his reputation and future market value, maybe.  

Dr Chao has many malpractice lawsuits against him... I would take his thoughts on this with a grain of salt

[Ohio State NY Jets fan]

4 minutes ago, Skeptable said:

Jets aren't going to play him... They are forcing him to make a decision... Get surgery on your own dime or play football... If he practices then they will probably make him inactive on Monday. 

I am fine with them making the point - just not sure it's worth pushing the issue for very long - a no win scenario 

[Skeptable]

1 minute ago, Ohio State NY Jets fan said:

I am fine with them making the point - just not sure it's worth pushing the issue for very long - a no win scenario 

This is clearly Osemele leaking information to the press to make the Jets look bad... a$$hole move in my opinion. 

[Ohio State NY Jets fan]

10 minutes ago, Skeptable said:

This is clearly Osemele leaking information to the press to make the Jets look bad... a$$hole move in my opinion. 

Agree, the part that irks me is if it was pre-existing, was this the plan all along, see how the season goes and bail if not going well and did the Raiders know?

[Fantasy Island]

19 hours ago, Matt39 said:

Mistake signing. But what's the upside in the Jets digging in here? 

 

cutting his a$$ with maybe saving some money

[More Cowbell]

43 minutes ago, Skeptable said:

Then get surgery... The Jets shouldn't be forced to pay the rest of his contract for11 million dollars because he wants surgery... Again most people in America won't get paid for surgery and recovery time while they are out... 

Did you read the complaint they made. Conduct detrimental  to the team. How are your reading comprehension  skills these days. That means they want him on the field,  he is saying no, I want surgery that will shelve me for the season and they say, you get the surgery we are fining you. HTF do you defend that?

[More Cowbell]

46 minutes ago, Skeptable said:

Jets aren't going to play him... They are forcing him to make a decision... Get surgery on your own dime or play football... If he practices then they will probably make him inactive on Monday. 

And if his contract says the medical Bill's are to be paid by the employer for football injuries, I guess then it's  ok that the Jets breach the contract. 

[whodeawhodat]

if the dude needs surgery let him get it ffs

[Dinamite]

This seems like a weird can't win position for the Jets.  I get it that they don't want players with guaranteed contracts to just get outside evaluations and decide not to play (and maybe they want to save money here too).   But fighting about this (particularly public) just makes the organization look small and likely makes the other players in the locker room wonder about how they will be treated when they are injured.

[section314]

If Osemele is that hurt, and doesn't believe/trust the Jets doctors, then he should retire and pay for his surgery.

[More Cowbell]

18 hours ago, FidelioJet said:

That's not the point.  What's to stop any player from basically saying "Hey, I'm hurt and don't want to play"?

 If he's medically cleared to play then he should play....If he wants the surgery, no one's stopping him - but he shouldn't be paid for it.

 

Unless there is specific language in his contract about playing injured, why should he not be paid? I doubt if he was going to lose game checks for sitting out, that he would be taking this position. 

[FidelioJet]

19 minutes ago, More Cowbell said:

Unless there is specific language in his contract about playing injured, why should he not be paid? I doubt if he was going to lose game checks for sitting out, that he would be taking this position. 

I'm not a lawyer but I'm sure there's language that says if you're healthy you have to play.  These guys play injured all the time - if guys decided to sit out whenever they got benched or heck, just bored - there would be no league.

I would imagine just about every player in the league - the moment they sign, what they believe to be, their last contract will declare they need surgery - take their salary and retire once it's done.

It's just silly.  If you are cleared to play, you play - or you don't get paid.  There's simply no other reasonable way to deal with this.

 

[Dunnie]

How is this even an issue?  It's Osemele's shoulder... he has final say.  They can't void his contact for an injury got while playing. What.  Is this Any Guven Sunday?  Where's James Woods withholding the X-ray scans?

Injury was pre-existing ...the signing and money were for availability ...which he is not. ...Jets have a case.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

[More Cowbell]

10 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

I'm not a lawyer but I'm sure there's language that says if you're healthy you have to play.  These guys play injured all the time - if guys decided to sit out whenever they got benched or heck, just bored - there would be no league.

I would imagine just about every player in the league - the moment they sign, what they believe to be, their last contract will declare they need surgery - take their salary and retire once it's done.

It's just silly.  If you are cleared to play, you play - or you don't get paid.  There's simply no other reasonable way to deal with this.

 

Yes, but it doesn't  appear the Jets are not giving him an injury settlement.  It said they are fining him for conduct detrimental to the team. 

I agree if he can play, he should play but I think he knows if he can play or not. 

[thshadow]

I wonder if they are actually working on an injury settlement.  Technically, they would have to come to an agreement on how long the injury should keep him out.  The Jets would then pay him for that many weeks, and cut him.

But essentially, it's just a negotiation about how many weeks he gets paid for, assuming he is cut right now.  If the Jets just cut him without an agreement, I imagine the player can file a grievance saying that he has an injury that should have kept him out all year.  With a season-ending injury, the labor contract says he should be paid for the whole year.

 

[Skeptable]

1 hour ago, More Cowbell said:

And if his contract says the medical Bill's are to be paid by the employer for football injuries, I guess then it's  ok that the Jets breach the contract. 

That is not what happened here but keep going

[Skeptable]

59 minutes ago, More Cowbell said:

Unless there is specific language in his contract about playing injured, why should he not be paid? I doubt if he was going to lose game checks for sitting out, that he would be taking this position. 

Because he is abusing the system and using media to call out the team rather then settling internally... That's bs

[Skeptable]

1 hour ago, Fantasy Island said:

cutting his a$$ with maybe saving some money

And future abuse of injury designation to get paid for not doing anything 

[TNJet]

He's going to miss out on our 6 game win streak and playoff berth. Sucks for him I guess.

[Skeptable]

1 hour ago, More Cowbell said:

Did you read the complaint they made. Conduct detrimental  to the team. How are your reading comprehension  skills these days. That means they want him on the field,  he is saying no, I want surgery that will shelve me for the season and they say, you get the surgery we are fining you. HTF do you defend that?

Because  if a guy decides in the middle of the season that he wants to have surgery that he has been putting off until the season started its abuse of the system to get paid for the surgery... 

[Skeptable]

9 minutes ago, thshadow said:

I wonder if they are actually working on an injury settlement.  Technically, they would have to come to an agreement on how long the injury should keep him out.  The Jets would then pay him for that many weeks, and cut him.

But essentially, it's just a negotiation about how many weeks he gets paid for, assuming he is cut right now.  If the Jets just cut him without an agreement, I imagine the player can file a grievance saying that he has an injury that should have kept him out all year.  With a season-ending injury, the labor contract says he should be paid for the whole year.

 

Exactly the a$$hole maneuver that KO did here is sir the grievence publocally so he can get public sympathy on his side and make the organization look bad. 

[Skeptable]

26 minutes ago, More Cowbell said:

Yes, but it doesn't  appear the Jets are not giving him an injury settlement.  It said they are fining him for conduct detrimental to the team. 

I agree if he can play, he should play but I think he knows if he can play or not. 

And how do you know that... KO has a long history of sitting out due to injuries that were deemed questionable by the raiders medical staff... This isn't the first team to have issues with KO

[Skeptable]

1 hour ago, whodeawhodat said:

if the dude needs surgery let him get it ffs

Nobody is stopping him... He wants to get paid for it... That is the issue

[More Cowbell]

 

 

10 minutes ago, Skeptable said:

Because  if a guy decides in the middle of the season that he wants to have surgery that he has been putting off until the season started its abuse of the system to get paid for the surgery... 

It's  not abuse of anything. If the jets were stupid enough to sign him with an injury that potentially  needed surgery to correct, how is that abuse? This is basically another Mac screw up if he was injured before he signed. 

[More Cowbell]

18 minutes ago, Skeptable said:

That is not what happened here but keep going

Then what are you arguing about? You seemed to be pissed off the guy has a contract to play football but he's  hurt and he probably sucks as bad as he does because of the injury so now he wants  to get it corrected but the Jets want to fine him for that decision.  Exactly what have I missed here?

[More Cowbell]

14 minutes ago, Skeptable said:

Exactly the a$$hole maneuver that KO did here is sir the grievence publocally so he can get public sympathy on his side and make the organization look bad. 

I don't  think the Jets needed any help from any player in looking bad, have been pretty good at long before KO signed here 

[More Cowbell]

12 minutes ago, Skeptable said:

Nobody is stopping him... He wants to get paid for it... That is the issue

Why should he not be paid? And wtf do you care? Is it your money? Does this some how effect the team. Hey, here's  a thought, he gets the surgery, rehabs, comes back healthy and maybe we have a quality OL next season instead of the injured piece of trash we have been watching