Drew Brees, GOAT

[T0mShane]

7 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Thing is you can point to the better Manning underperforming on big stages or on crucial drives during said big stage games after winning 12-14 games every year. 

Maybe it's just the passage of time, not to mention only seeing a few Miami games per year, and not having them scrutinized on a national level sans internet, but I didn't have this recollection with Marino crapping the bed in the playoffs. More that he had a lot of bottom-5 defenses and no ground game (bunch of Hampton-Nathan-Parmalee types who benefitted from Marino stretching the D rather than helping out Marino by keeping safeties in). Remember what a big deal it was that the Dolphins finally had one 1000-yard rusher in Karim Abdul-Jabbar right as Marino was nearing retirement? 

Looking it up now, the truth is Miami did get bounced pre-superbowl behind a lot of meh (if not outright stinker) playoff games from Marino. Only one he played well and lost was over a decade into his career. So I guess it's just my memory because it's 26-36 years ago. Hah. Good. Eff him. 

On a similar note, I remember Peyton as not being able to beat Spurrier in college, or Belichick in the pros. When I think of Peyton Manning, I think of him exasperated on the sideline, entirely confused as to why his little robot mind wasn’t able to overcome Tom Brady

[HessStation]

3 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

On a similar note, I remember Peyton as not being able to beat Spurrier in college, or Belichick in the pros. When I think of Peyton Manning, I think of him exasperated on the sideline, entirely confused as to why his little robot mind wasn’t able to overcome Tom Brady

 Cause Brady was cheating, and on a better team with a better coach

[T0mShane]

3 minutes ago, HessStation said:

 Cause Brady was cheating, and on a better team with a better coach

Which is funny in retrospect, if it turns out they were able to cheat against Peyton because he was so predictable, but couldn’t cheat against Eli because even Eli didn’t know what play he was running at any given time 

[Sperm Edwards]

17 hours ago, nyjunc said:

The colts tanked to get Andrew luck, a year later with luck and they won more games than Peyton's last season.

You know peyton played most of his career in a dome, right?

Tomlin has done a great job but they haven't beat one playoff bound team.  

 

No they did not, no matter how many people believe this urban myth because they ended up with Luck, and because Suck for Luck rhymed.

Their repeated actions from August onward were of a team trying to salvage its season in one form or another. Not to mention they nearly lost the #1 pick in the end by winning 2 games when they already had it in the bag at 0-13.

Who was in a position to orchestrate a purposeful tank, who then benefitted by getting the #1 pick in the end? Both the HC and GM were fired for their efforts. Painter’s career was over  Collins stayed retired for good. Orlovsky never started another game. How many more got cut after the season?

The GM kept bringing in whatever available QBs he could for his HC, they didn’t even officially put Collins on IR until midseason, and Manning until after that. A tank job would be simply starting Curtis Painter from the beginning, and keeping him in there for all 16 games. The freaking Super Bowl was in Indy that year.

Crazy that people actually believe this, and that a team could lose on purpose without so much as one of 50+ players/coaches/scouts outing them, even after getting cut/fired following that season, and after their careers were officially over with nothing to lose at any later juncture. Not a single tell-all book (nor even so much as an interview) spilling the beans. Who’s keeping them all quiet and who has this much control? Irsay doesn’t exactly come across as some careful, scheming genius who knows how to keep things under wraps himself; let alone himself and dozens of others who have no particular loyalty to that nut.

[greenwichjetfan]

6 hours ago, T0mShane said:

On a similar note, I remember Peyton as not being able to beat Spurrier in college, or Belichick in the pros. When I think of Peyton Manning, I think of him exasperated on the sideline, entirely confused as to why his little robot mind wasn’t able to overcome Tom Brady

Peyton ended his career 3-2 against Brady and Belichick in the playoffs, including 3-0 since spygate; all in AFCCGs. Brady didn’t have to go against the GOAT HC in those matchups the way  Peyton did. Brady’s been to the SB every year since Peyton retired. 

[greenwichjetfan]

6 hours ago, T0mShane said:

Which is funny in retrospect, if it turns out they were able to cheat against Peyton because he was so predictable, but couldn’t cheat against Eli because even Eli didn’t know what play he was running at any given time 

It’s no coincidence that the Manning bros are 5-0 in the playoffs against brady and Belichick since ‘06. They knew how to handle and work-around the cheating.

[T0mShane]

21 minutes ago, greenwichjetfan said:

Peyton ended his career 3-2 against Brady and Belichick In the playoffs, including 3-0 since Spygate revelations. Brady’s been to the SB every year since Peyton retired. 

Huh. That’s a surprising stat

[Matt39]

How does Elway ever crack these lists? 

Brady, Brees, Montana, Marino, Manning...in no particular order.

[Fantasy Island]

On 12/16/2019 at 10:29 PM, 14 in Green said:

1. Brady (stop the nonsense, he’s a goat f@#$%r)

2. Rothlisberger 

3. Brees 

4. Peyton

5. Rodgers

6. Wilson

7. Eli

8. Rivers

9. Stafford 

10. Ryan

fixed it

[Fantasy Island]

2 hours ago, greenwichjetfan said:

It’s no coincidence that the Manning bros are 5-0 in the playoffs against brady and Belichick since ‘06. They knew how to handle and work-around the cheating.

Amen

[ZachEY]

If you were starting a franchise that didn’t have Belichick and that wasn’t going to be cheating, would your first pick be Brady?  Or, would you take Brees, Rodgers, Montana, Manning, Marino, etc?  I wouldn’t risk it on Brady, and as such, wouldn’t call him the best ever.

[nico002]

9 hours ago, T0mShane said:

On a similar note, I remember Peyton as not being able to beat Spurrier in college, or Belichick in the pros. When I think of Peyton Manning, I think of him exasperated on the sideline, entirely confused as to why his little robot mind wasn’t able to overcome Tom Brady

I remember Peyton leading the biggest comeback in afccg history against cheats..

[Jetsfan80]

Peyton propped up an awful Colts org for so long, and always had those cheating bastards in his path at all times.  I put him at # 1 of QB's I've seen.  

Brees was lucky enough to be in the mostly awful NFC South.  But I still put him at either # 2 or 3.  His brain is a super computer and no QB out there has better pure accuracy.  

[greenwichjetfan]

11 hours ago, T0mShane said:

When I think of Peyton Manning, I think of him exasperated on the sideline, entirely confused as to why his little robot mind wasn’t able to overcome Tom Brady

4 hours ago, greenwichjetfan said:

Peyton ended his career 3-2 against Brady and Belichick in the playoffs, including 3-0 since spygate; all in AFCCGs. Brady didn’t have to go against the GOAT HC in those matchups the way  Peyton did. Brady’s been to the SB every year since Peyton retired. 

4 hours ago, T0mShane said:

Huh. That’s a surprising stat

Proof positive that your thoughts can be misleading. Therefore, I forgive you for your thoughts on Parcells and Gase!

[nyjunc]

14 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

No they did not, no matter how many people believe this urban myth because they ended up with Luck, and because Suck for Luck rhymed.

Their repeated actions from August onward were of a team trying to salvage its season in one form or another. Not to mention they nearly lost the #1 pick in the end by winning 2 games when they already had it in the bag at 0-13.

Who was in a position to orchestrate a purposeful tank, who then benefitted by getting the #1 pick in the end? Both the HC and GM were fired for their efforts. Painter’s career was over  Collins stayed retired for good. Orlovsky never started another game. How many more got cut after the season?

The GM kept bringing in whatever available QBs he could for his HC, they didn’t even officially put Collins on IR until midseason, and Manning until after that. A tank job would be simply starting Curtis Painter from the beginning, and keeping him in there for all 16 games. The freaking Super Bowl was in Indy that year.

Crazy that people actually believe this, and that a team could lose on purpose without so much as one of 50+ players/coaches/scouts outing them, even after getting cut/fired following that season, and after their careers were officially over with nothing to lose at any later juncture. Not a single tell-all book (nor even so much as an interview) spilling the beans. Who’s keeping them all quiet and who has this much control? Irsay doesn’t exactly come across as some careful, scheming genius who knows how to keep things under wraps himself; let alone himself and dozens of others who have no particular loyalty to that nut.

They brought in a 40+ yr old QB off his couch just before the season.  They had no intentions of winning.  Again, a year later with less stake they won more games than they did in Peyton's final season.

[UntouchableCrew]

Honestly I wouldn't even put Brees in the same category as Brady, Manning or Rodgers.

Great QB, but a pure system guy in a dome who had FIVE 7-9 seasons.

Can you imagine a healthy Brady or Manning going 7-9?

[Sperm Edwards]

3 hours ago, nyjunc said:

They brought in a 40+ yr old QB off his couch just before the season.  They had no intentions of winning.  Again, a year later with less stake they won more games than they did in Peyton's final season.

Really, and you think bringing in a legitimate starting QB from the prior season - just so they wouldn't have to go with Curtis Painter - is an example of tanking in your world?

And exactly what would trying to win look like to you? Starting Curtis Painter from week 1? Perhaps they should have convinced a competing team to give up its own starting QB so the optics would look better to a Jets fan big on conspiracy theories. Yes, they should have forked over their 2012 1st rounder for an above-average starting QB, to fill what they clearly hoped was a very temporary stopgap position. 

The obvious purpose of signing Collins - to everyone with eyes, who followed the league at the time, and who is grounded on planet earth - was to bridge the time until Manning came back, and bridge it with someone whom they felt could actually QB a team so they could still be mathematically in it by then.

We know now that Collins didn't win early games, then got concussed quickly into the season and was put on IR in October (for all we know, this was done after Collins refused to take the field again). Further, we also now know Manning didn't come back before October, as he had neck fusion surgery in September with an expected 2-3 month recovery. But to make the team even more competitive, after giving Painter every reasonable chance to show something, was they then brought back yet another QB with recent starting experience in Orlovsky. By the time Manning even could have been cleared to play, they were eliminated and put him on IR in December. 

What's more, they had just given Manning an extension, to keep him past 2011, at the end of freaking July. It's easy to forget years later, but all summer that year they were hoping to get Manning cleared to play any day now, any day now. It just didn't happen, and in September he finally gave in and got that neck fusion surgery. Nobody gives out a $90MM contract for 2012 and beyond if they're planning on tanking in 2011 so they could draft a player at the same position in 2012. No one. 

Using your logic, the Jets were tanking after Darnold was out with mono because they didn't give up a 2020 draft pick for a better stopgap. So is every team that actually fields its #3 QB after the first 2 get injured. They're all tanking, right out of the Conspiracy Theories handbook. It's so obvious, right?

I'm getting you a roll of foil so you can make yourself a new hat for Christmas this year. You want the regular size roll or the extra-wide?

[rangerous]

23 hours ago, TeddEY said:

If you were starting a franchise that didn’t have Belichick and that wasn’t going to be cheating, would your first pick be Brady?  Or, would you take Brees, Rodgers, Montana, Manning, Marino, etc?  I wouldn’t risk it on Brady, and as such, wouldn’t call him the best ever.

interesting question.  if you're starting a team then the overall talent probably isn't that good but you still want to win.  imo maybe a guy like jackson should be in the mix.  a running qb puts an awful lot of stress on a defense and jackson runs as god or better than the best of them.

[Hael]

On 12/18/2019 at 8:56 AM, TeddEY said:

If you were starting a franchise that didn’t have Belichick and that wasn’t going to be cheating, would your first pick be Brady?  Or, would you take Brees, Rodgers, Montana, Manning, Marino, etc?  I wouldn’t risk it on Brady, and as such, wouldn’t call him the best ever.

He’s better than Manning for sure, who’s always been somewhat overrated. Brady only had the truly elite stacked offense one year and he put up insane numbers outside of a dome.

Hes fundamentally more accurate than Peyton and this translates well into the snowy weather of the playoffs and ultimately into Super bowls.

Brees is similar accuracy, which is why he’s so deadly, but ultimately he doesn’t quite have the same clutch gene.

Rogers and maybe Marino are the only guys I’d take over Brady on talent alone and that’s not taking into account mental makeup and knowledge of the game.

so I’d still take Brady..  especially if i get him at half the cap charge like he’s  been his entire career.  The fact that he gets to the afc championship every effing year for like twenty years is just ridiculous.

wish this wasn’t so, but it’s pretty objective at this point.

[ZachEY]

16 minutes ago, Hael said:

He’s better than Manning for sure, who’s always been somewhat overrated. Brady only had the truly elite stacked offense one year and he put up insane numbers outside of a dome.

Hes fundamentally more accurate than Peyton and this translates well into the snowy weather of the playoffs and ultimately into Super bowls.

Brees is similar accuracy, which is why he’s so deadly, but ultimately he doesn’t quite have the same clutch gene.

Rogers and maybe Marino are the only guys I’d take over Brady on talent alone and that’s not taking into account mental makeup and knowledge of the game.

 so I’d still take Brady..  especially if i get him at half the cap charge like he’s  been his entire career.  The fact that he gets to the afc championship every effing year for like twenty years is just ridiculous.

 wish this wasn’t so, but it’s pretty objective at this point.

The point is, do we not consider that this is the 3rd time they've been caught cheating in our analysis of Brady?

I'm just not confident in the type of QB he is when he doesn't know the other teams plays.

[GKnight83]

On ‎12‎/‎16‎/‎2019 at 10:09 PM, JetsLife said:

If he had the rings Brady did, I think Brees is the GOAT. As it stands perhaps he already is. He does absolutely amazing things on the football field. 

If I had the rings Brady has, I would be the GOAT.

[nyjunc]

On 12/18/2019 at 8:33 PM, Sperm Edwards said:

Really, and you think bringing in a legitimate starting QB from the prior season - just so they wouldn't have to go with Curtis Painter - is an example of tanking in your world?

And exactly what would trying to win look like to you? Starting Curtis Painter from week 1? Perhaps they should have convinced a competing team to give up its own starting QB so the optics would look better to a Jets fan big on conspiracy theories. Yes, they should have forked over their 2012 1st rounder for an above-average starting QB, to fill what they clearly hoped was a very temporary stopgap position. 

The obvious purpose of signing Collins - to everyone with eyes, who followed the league at the time, and who is grounded on planet earth - was to bridge the time until Manning came back, and bridge it with someone whom they felt could actually QB a team so they could still be mathematically in it by then.

We know now that Collins didn't win early games, then got concussed quickly into the season and was put on IR in October (for all we know, this was done after Collins refused to take the field again). Further, we also now know Manning didn't come back before October, as he had neck fusion surgery in September with an expected 2-3 month recovery. But to make the team even more competitive, after giving Painter every reasonable chance to show something, was they then brought back yet another QB with recent starting experience in Orlovsky. By the time Manning even could have been cleared to play, they were eliminated and put him on IR in December. 

What's more, they had just given Manning an extension, to keep him past 2011, at the end of freaking July. It's easy to forget years later, but all summer that year they were hoping to get Manning cleared to play any day now, any day now. It just didn't happen, and in September he finally gave in and got that neck fusion surgery. Nobody gives out a $90MM contract for 2012 and beyond if they're planning on tanking in 2011 so they could draft a player at the same position in 2012. No one. 

Using your logic, the Jets were tanking after Darnold was out with mono because they didn't give up a 2020 draft pick for a better stopgap. So is every team that actually fields its #3 QB after the first 2 get injured. They're all tanking, right out of the Conspiracy Theories handbook. It's so obvious, right?

I'm getting you a roll of foil so you can make yourself a new hat for Christmas this year. You want the regular size roll or the extra-wide?

He's 40+ years old,he wasn't good his last 2 seasons and he'd have no training camp with a new team and system but yeah they brought him in to win.

 

Once again, with a rookie Andrew luck a year later and LESS talent around the QB they won more games than in Peyton's last season.

[Sperm Edwards]

16 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

He's 40+ years old,he wasn't good his last 2 seasons and he'd have no training camp with a new team and system but yeah they brought him in to win.

 

Once again, with a rookie Andrew luck a year later and LESS talent around the QB they won more games than in Peyton's last season.

"I can't see past the horizon line. Therefore the earth is flat."