Bad news supposedly coming out of Washington eventually

[Scott Dierking]

26 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Yep.  The people who created this narrative were feminist women who had the best of intentions when trying to analyze what was going on.  They simply don't understand what disgusting pigs men tend to be, and had to come up with an alternative explanation than "Men want sex, and a lot of it.  And some will do horrible things to get it." 

That explanation just wasn't good enough at the time.  Problem is they didn't really use much data (and certainly not GOOD data) when coming up with the new theory.  And the narrative that was created was actually quite dangerous, because it served to discourage women from fighting back from their attacker/predator.  

It is not that compartmentalized. I think we would have to agree there are more than one reason why people prey on other people.

I stand by my assessment that this is an institutional lack of control type of failure on the part of the Redskins, which helps cultivate these types of crimes. 

IMPORTANT, it was not just cheerleaders. It was at least a marketing coordinator, an intern (all 15 have not been identified).

I seriously doubt the culture that the team had cheerleaders brought this on. Certainly if the team abused cheerleaders, it helped create the culture. But eliminating the cheerleaders ins not the Redskins problem. it is how they treated females (allegedly).

[TuscanyTile2]

1 minute ago, AFJF said:

I think it is dumb for teams to have cheerleaders, but if teams choose to do it, that's up to them.

And you're talking about this in a way that suggests for some reason that cheerleaders should be guaranteed employment no matter how much or how little their role brings, just because they would like it to be so.  Are there any other jobs you can think of that should exist based solely on the desire of somebody to have that job?  

If an asset doesn't help you win football games and isn't essential to conduct your day to day operations but you retain it and run the risk of lawsuit and/or losing your football team, it's dumb.

Not in any way am I saying that.  In fact, I wrote:

Quote

Another benefit could be people who enjoy their dancing and being entertained during time outs, halftime, etc.  Or maybe the team sells more gear due to having cheerleaders (sex sells).  Heck, it could just be that people enjoy the tradition of having cheerleaders.  Whatever the reason, most NFL teams think cheerleaders enhance the gameday experience.

You are the one saying that cheerleading is "dumb" and that you think it adds nothing to a team's business.

[Jetsfan80]

6 minutes ago, Scott Dierking said:

It is not that compartmentalized. I think we would have to agree there are more than one reason why people prey on other people.

I stand by my assessment that this is an institutional lack of control type of failure on the part of the Redskins, which helps cultivate these types of crimes. 

IMPORTANT, it was not just cheerleaders. It was at least a marketing coordinator, an intern (all 15 have not been identified).

I seriously doubt the culture that the team had cheerleaders brought this on. Certainly if the team abused cheerleaders, it helped create the culture. But eliminating the cheerleaders ins not the Redskins problem. it is how they treated females (allegedly).

 

I'm not using any of that as an excuse for why these things happen, or suggesting it can't be controlled to some extent based on a positive, safe work culture. 

The motivations of sexual predators have little to do with whether or not Dan Snyder is ultimately responsible for this scandal, or whether cheerleaders should be hired by pro teams.

[CanadaSteve]

5 hours ago, Scott Dierking said:

What if your "boss" asks you to be an escort for men, provide "special services" to important clients, and takes your passport away while you are on an exclusive trip?

All in bounds?

Sounds like a 2020 interpretation of the situation compared to how us kids were raised many years ago.

Um....no.  You demand the passport back, inform the police, kick him in the nuts, punch him in the nose....Do whatever you need to do.  See, that is how it works when you are equal.  SHE get's to stand up for herself, and if she faces backlash, SHE get to choose.  Do I lie down or keep fighting?  

Let's spin it around (I know this isn't acceptable in today's PC world, but just for kickes, huh!)  Lets say this was an inter-gender cheerleading squad, and it was a guy who was told to service the gay men in the room, except he's not gay.  This hypothetical guy has the same rights as the woman does.  Stand up for yourself, and if he faces backlash, HE gets to choose.  Do I lie down or keep fighting?  There is also another option to both people: The right to choose if they want to do it rather than fight.  All options are on the table when you are a free man and woman. 

Do women have to stand up for themselves more?  Yes.  Is it fair?  No.  Is the world fair?  No.  But where this PC world fails individuals MISERABLY is in its desire to subjugate individuals power, the very power they need to empower themselves.  It sucks living in a world where brute force can outright win any argument physically.  I am a small dude in stature, and have a little better understanding of this (however, not to the point a female does).  However, getting individuals to turn to a higher authority every time they need help (example: government, church, teachers, etc), they lose the very thing which is most important to their well-being: their esteem and worth to themselves.  

[14 in Green]

7 hours ago, Jackie Treehorn said:

14 long pages of speculation without even considering the victims. I did some research and this poor girl might be one of them. 

We need to examine this more closely.

It's something I'd love to explore in depth.

[AFJF]

12 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

Not in any way am I saying that.  In fact, I wrote:

You are the one saying that cheerleading is "dumb" and that you think it adds nothing to a team's business.

Once again you're wrong.  I didn't say cheerleading is dumb.  I said that having cheerleaders in your building is dumb because they don't help the football team and nobody (aside from the pervs) would notice of they were gone tomorrow.

And yes, it is the team's business as to whether or not that make this or any other number of dumb moves.

[CanadaSteve]

1 hour ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

These are adult women.  You think they need hand-holding?  Or to be told by you how they should react to men being attracted to them?

In 1983: No....women would have just taken care of business

In 2020: Yes...our culture has turned into generations of hand-holders.

[AFJF]

FYI, possibly the most lopsided poll I've ever seen with 93% saying they wouldn't GAF.  No word on whether or not the pervs have voted.

 

Edited July 17, 2020 by AFJF

[TuscanyTile2]

12 minutes ago, AFJF said:

Once again you're wrong.  I didn't say cheerleading is dumb.  I said that having cheerleaders in your building is dumb because they don't help the football team and nobody (aside from the pervs) would notice of they were gone tomorrow.

And yes, it is the team's business as to whether or not that make this or any other number of dumb moves.

I re-read your prior posts and I concede the point.  You have been criticizing owners' decisions to have cheerleaders rather than the profession itself.  (though you still did say "There are also those who feel women should aspire to do more than make a living by taking most of their clothes off...")

[Biggs]

59 minutes ago, slats said:

Cheerleaders bring plenty of value. Sure, maybe people aren't going to football games just to watch pretty girls dance, but everyone is taking a good look at them during the course of the game. And it doesn't end there, There's posters, calendars, clothing, and clicks. If these young ladies weren't money makers for these organizations, they wouldn't exist. 

If you go to a live NFL game there aren't commercials going on while play is stopped.  Alternate entertainment like cheerleaders are becoming more important as replay, more penalties and tv timeouts to create additional revenue continue to slow the game down on the field.

This dance acts are critical to the revenue stream because they allow more commercials and game stops.  

If you have upper management harassing them, lower management will go along.  If upper management doesn't tolerate harassment lower management is on notice.  They are part of the system.  Key employees.  They deserve a harassment free work place.  It's not that complicated.

[batman10023]

53 minutes ago, AFJF said:

Once again you're wrong.  I didn't say cheerleading is dumb.  I said that having cheerleaders in your building is dumb because they don't help the football team and nobody (aside from the pervs) would notice of they were gone tomorrow.

And yes, it is the team's business as to whether or not that make this or any other number of dumb moves.

Most NFL business folk believe you are incorrect although i think about 20-25% of them do not have cheerleaders.

 

[AFJF]

18 minutes ago, batman10023 said:

Most NFL business folk believe you are incorrect although i think about 20-25% of them do not have cheerleaders.

 

I'm sure Dan Snyder was among those who would have said I was wrong if we'd asked him during the season.  He may have a different take today.

[AFJF]

1 hour ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

I re-read your prior posts and I concede the point.  You have been criticizing owners' decisions to have cheerleaders rather than the profession itself.  (though you still did say "There are also those who feel women should aspire to do more than make a living by taking most of their clothes off...")

Appreciate that, and as I said, I did present both sides of that argument.  Some say its objectifying women, others say it's empowering women.  Where do I fall on that?  No idea.  I can say "yeah, there's nothing wrong with it" but I'd be singing a different tune if somebody I cared about told me they were going to make a living by taking their clothes off.  It would be their choice, but I'd definitely think somebody took a wrong turn somewhere along the way.

As Chris Rock says...you have one job as a father, and that's to "keep 'em off the pole".

[Apache 51]

Treat women with respect, they make the world go around.

 

Make sure you put it on 1080p.

[batman10023]

40 minutes ago, AFJF said:

I'm sure Dan Snyder was among those who would have said I was wrong if we'd asked him during the season.  He may have a different take today.

the cheerleading bombshell report was a few years ago.  they didn't get rid of it then - perhaps times will change.

 

[Scott Dierking]

42 minutes ago, AFJF said:

I'm sure Dan Snyder was among those who would have said I was wrong if we'd asked him during the season.  He may have a different take today.

I seriously doubt that the reverberating thought in Daniel Snyder's head today is "If only we had not hired cheerleaders". 

That is the least of his problems at this point. Take cheerleaders out of the equation. It did not happen because of them, nor were these incidents caused by them. Even if you want to "put them on a pole"

[Scott Dierking]

7 minutes ago, batman10023 said:

the cheerleading bombshell report was a few years ago.  they didn't get rid of it then - perhaps times will change.

 

The women reporting these allegations are NOT cheerleaders.

[playtowinthegame]

16 hours ago, Trolly McTrollface said:

Being right all the time gets boring after a while...

I'd buy you a beer for being right for a change but you'd have to be at Ocean City Maryland Beach right off the boardwalk at 26th St. right now.

Virtual cheers brother. 

[Greenbloodblitz]

28 minutes ago, Scott Dierking said:

The women reporting these allegations are NOT cheerleaders.

Cheerleaders should be really hot and dumb! The women reporting these allegations are angry that they can't pull off really hot and dumb. Because of all the ridiculous movements people are put in positions where they just can't cut it. I don't feel sorry or bad for anyone at all. We all know the deal, stop trying to change the rules and sue somebody.

I've never seen an all-female beach with a bunch of hot women on it who can't stand being looked at with their tans and their bikinis. Sorry you can't have it both ways let's just tell it like it is and stop trying to be politically correct-

[Greenbloodblitz]

2 hours ago, Trolly McTrollface said:

We need to examine this more closely.

It's something I'd love to explore in depth.

 I've already considered her four times. I'm very considerate and after lunch I'll be back later LOL

[playtowinthegame]

12 minutes ago, Greenbloodblitz said:

I've never seen an all-female beach with a bunch of hot women on it who can't stand being looked at with their tans and their bikinis. Sorry you can't have it both ways let's just tell it like it is and stop trying to be politically correct-

 

[batman10023]

2 hours ago, Scott Dierking said:

The women reporting these allegations are NOT cheerleaders.

yes.  but wasn't the 5 page back and forth on cheerleaders?

[Scott Dierking]

16 minutes ago, batman10023 said:

yes.  but wasn't the 5 page back and forth on cheerleaders?

That was @AFJF for some reason attaching cheerleaders with this. Like they were a reason.

[AFJF]

3 minutes ago, Scott Dierking said:

That was @AFJF for some reason attaching cheerleaders with this. Like they were a reason.

We have the list of all 15 accusers?  I saw at least one report last night that mentioned cheerleaders being asked to pay special attention to season ticket holders.

[jeremy2020]

1 minute ago, AFJF said:

We have the list of all 15 accusers?  I saw at least one report last night that mentioned cheerleaders being asked to pay special attention to season ticket holders.

That was a NY Times story from back in 2013/2014 and I think a lot of people are confusing those events with the current ones.

[Scott Dierking]

2 minutes ago, AFJF said:

We have the list of all 15 accusers?  I saw at least one report last night that mentioned cheerleaders being asked to pay special attention to season ticket holders.

The only people that I have seen quoted are non-cheerleaders. What cheerleaders have you seen quoted?

Regardless, this is not really about cheerleaders. It is about women. Though you seem to give them some type of lower priority in the pecking order of human decency. 

[AFJF]

1 minute ago, jeremy2020 said:

That was a NY Times story from back in 2013/2014 and I think a lot of people are confusing those events with the current ones.

Could be the case.  Also possible that cheerleadersf are among the 15 current women filing complaints.

[AFJF]

Just now, Scott Dierking said:

The only people that I have seen quoted are non-cheerleaders. What cheerleaders have you seen quoted?

Regardless, this is not really about cheerleaders. It is about women. Though you seem to give them some type of lower priority in the pecking order of human decency. 

I think you're projecting.

[jeremy2020]

5 minutes ago, AFJF said:

Could be the case.  Also possible that cheerleadersf are among the 15 current women filing complaints.

could be that my a$$hole is a never ending pot of gold. We'll never know the truth. 

[Scott Dierking]

4 minutes ago, AFJF said:

I think you're projecting.

Quotes? Any cheerleaders among those?

Projecting? I think you made yourself pretty well understood here on your stance of cheerleaders and the profession. 

[Scott Dierking]

6 minutes ago, AFJF said:

Could be the case.  Also possible that cheerleadersf are among the 15 current women filing complaints.

The 15 were described as "employees". Cheerleaders are not employees. They are sub-contract. There are quotes from staffers. The article says "staffers". 

 

[AFJF]

3 minutes ago, jeremy2020 said:

could be that my a$$hole is a never ending pot of gold. We'll never know the truth. 

Well, I'll never know.  Might find somebody in the mod lounge to confirm it though.

[AFJF]

3 minutes ago, Scott Dierking said:

Quotes? Any cheerleaders among those?

Projecting? I think you made yourself pretty well understood here on your stance of cheerleaders and the profession. 

I didn't even discuss cheerleading as a profession.  I discussed their value to an NFL football team winning football games and the risk/benefit of having them.  Keep sending up that virtue signal though.  Somebody might respond.

[jeremy2020]

3 minutes ago, AFJF said:

I didn't even discuss cheerleading as a profession.  I discussed their value to an NFL football team winning football games and the risk/benefit of having them.  Keep sending up that virtue signal though.  Somebody might respond.

Rex Ryan never discussed foot fetishes

[AFJF]

2 minutes ago, jeremy2020 said:

Rex Ryan never discussed foot fetishes

He didn't have to.  There was audio/video of him taking part.  We knew it was his thing because there was evidence.