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Justin Fields: All 22 Coach's FIlm

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13 minutes ago, JiF said:

Awesome stuff, a lot of this has been posted and discussed but I personally appreciate not just coming in here and regurgitating the national media has to say but actually looking at it yourself and making an assessment.  I've given my take on a lot of these and I've said it before, I walked away feeling much more impressed by Fields then Lawrence when they went head to head last year, so I appreciate your breakdown.

Fields shows you everything on tape.  There isnt a particular aspect he lacks or is a huge concern.  I hear the "holds the ball too long" comments a lot, he really doesnt.  Some of that is system; for a example they run a ton of 4 verts.  Those plays require the QB to hold the ball longer but what is sexy is you'll see him go through 4 progressions on those plays, hold a safety with this eyes and throw the best deep ball in the game. 

He's an all world athlete, with an Ivy League brain all wrapped up into an elite QB prospect but we can nit pick a game vs. a top 10 D with 22 players out, including starters on the OL and his #1 WR or we can look deeper.  I prefer the deeper look.

 

Maybe I’m in the minority but i don’t see that with fields.  Most throws he’s under no rush and locks onto one wr until the guy inevitably gets open.  He’s got a strong arm but there seems to be somewhat of a hitch in his motion.  Not sure how much pure touch he can put on his throws either, i just haven’t watched enough, whereas you watch Zach Wilson for a few minutes and you see the different arm angles and velocities needed to make different and difficult kinds of nfl throws.  Though against worse competition, Wilson also has worse teammates and you see him moving around and doing lots of stuff himself when plays break down.  I watch fields on osu and it’s like a 99 madden team where fields can wait for things to go his way or run it with his speed.  I think fields is very talented, but i think Wilson’s attributes translate better to the nfl.  I also have a hunch that the early rumors of Wilson having a ‘faster processor’ will be more flushed out as the draft process continues.

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9 minutes ago, JiF said:

Awesome stuff, a lot of this has been posted and discussed but I personally appreciate not just coming in here and regurgitating the national media has to say but actually looking at it yourself and making an assessment.  I've given my take on a lot of these and I've said it before, I walked away feeling much more impressed by Fields then Lawrence when they went head to head last year, so I appreciate your breakdown.

Fields shows you everything on tape.  There isnt a particular aspect he lacks or is a huge concern.  I hear the "holds the ball too long" comments a lot, he really doesnt.  Some of that is system; for a example they run a ton of 4 verts.  Those plays require the QB to hold the ball longer but what is sexy is you'll see him go through 4 progressions on those plays, hold a safety with this eyes and throw the best deep ball in the game. 

He's an all world athlete, with an Ivy League brain all wrapped up into an elite QB prospect but we can nit pick a game vs. a top 10 D with 22 players out, including starters on the OL and his #1 WR or we can look deeper.  I prefer the deeper look.

 

The only thing checkbox for me he doesn’t have is experience, which obviously ****ed him this year with Covid. 

That being said, I think it boils down to how well you can coach up his decision-making. It’s not poor, but he needs to be able to pull the trigger on more “NFL open” throws. 

We have such a dire need for QB I’d be ok with taking him at 2 unless we got a trade down offer that’s too good to refuse. 

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44 minutes ago, Jets Voice of Reason said:

The only thing checkbox for me he doesn’t have is experience, which obviously ****ed him this year with Covid. 

That being said, I think it boils down to how well you can coach up his decision-making. It’s not poor, but he needs to be able to pull the trigger on more “NFL open” throws. 

We have such a dire need for QB I’d be ok with taking him at 2 unless we got a trade down offer that’s too good to refuse. 

Agreed, it's the experience, for sure.  He doesnt have that national moment too, the Watson types of heroics (not the Trevor Lawrence does either) but yes, I agree, the only real concern is the # of starts.

 

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46 minutes ago, Philc1 said:

Geno vibes from this guy

Tell me more 

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27 minutes ago, JiF said:

Agreed, it's the experience, for sure.  He doesnt have that national moment too, the Watson types of heroics (not the Trevor Lawrence does either) but yes, I agree, the only real concern is the # of starts.

 

If you’re being objective, you can’t look at how Fields has played this year And come away from it with the only concern is that he hasn’t started a lot of games.  Every QB, except for Jones at Alabama has had to deal with missing guys on offense.   That can’t be used as an excuse, especially at OSU where they have 4 and 5 star kids sitting on the bench waiting to come in. 

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13 hours ago, HawaiisOnlyJetsFan said:

Because most just watch highlights, which generally means it's first read big play. If you're having to get to you third or fourth read in college it's probably not a highlight worthy play. The rest is just bias for or against. Fields has pro level physical skills: touch, ball placement/accuracy, good deep ball, incredible athleticism. Most of my negatives on him have to do with decision making and trying to do too much on his own. Always looking for the big play instead of taking what's there. Was a little down on him after the NW game, that said I still have him 1b to TL and would be happy if we drafted him.

I felt the same way until his recent streak of bad play. I have no answers as to why he has played so poorly. But, i guess every athlete should be entitled to a bad streak. If he closes the season with a bad game, i believe an notion of him being 1b and taking him at #2 is just too big a risk for the franchise.

I’m also concerned that he plays in a system that made Dwayne Haskins look good.

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3 minutes ago, Sonny Werblin said:

I felt the same way until his recent streak of bad play. I have no answers as to why he has played so poorly. But, i guess every athlete should be entitled to a bad streak. If he closes the season with a bad game, i believe an notion of him being 1b and taking him at #2 is just too big a risk for the franchise.

I’m also concerned that he plays in a system that made Dwayne Haskins look good.

I didn’t watch Haskins in college but I have read that this is a very different offense 

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5 minutes ago, QB1 said:

I didn’t watch Haskins in college but I have read that this is a very different offense 

 How is it different?

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11 hours ago, Obrien2Toon said:

If you watched Fields from last year, he’s a no brainer at 2

if you watch him from this year, you wouldn’t even think he’s a first rounder

the question is do you believe this is the real him or has this strange COVID season messed with him and last year was the real him

i would take a shot on him at 2

you had me until the last statement 

Justin Fields has never thrown a pick against unranked foes. He's thrown 8 against ranked opposition. 

the "two games" everyone overrated are also the only 2 real defenses he's faced this year 

for all those going through the highlights, watch him tonight against Clemson 

Clemson has the best defense in CFB, maybe even better than Bama

this game is going to either make or break Fields draft stock 

the dude balls out, throws for a bunch, I'll be here tomorrow morning eating crow, and happy to do it. 

it's not that I don't want the Jets to have a great QB. and i have no problem with fields/Wilson/Lance at 1.29 or 2.1

I just don't know if there's any Qb in this draft worth 1.2 besides trevor 

it's such a huge gap between Sewell and the next best QB, unless Fields has a Rose Bowl signature moment sponsored by Vince Young and Sam Darnold it's a reach of monumental proportions to take any QB at 2 overall 

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41 minutes ago, Sonny Werblin said:

I felt the same way until his recent streak of bad play. I have no answers as to why he has played so poorly. 

Look at what happened to Zeke in Dallas. 

I don't want to violate Max's non sports laws but we don't know what this disease does to people long term and there are a certain amount of people who get it, recover, and then have symptoms afterward. Jedrick Wills of the Cleveland Browns tested negative last week but still missed the jets game with some kind of aftereffect symptoms, despite testing negative before the game. The NYT has an article about healthy people with no history of mental illness hearing voices and getting severe schizophrenia after recovery   

when we were all excited to trade Jamal Adams, part of my reasoning against it is that these picks the 21 and 22 seasons are going to be compromised. At the time I thought it was for the usual reasons, lack of information, shutting down all the games, maybe they wouldn't be able to pro days etc.

The reason no one (except for maybe Pete Carroll) considered is that some of these guys are going to get the disease and not look the same afterward for months or possibly ever again.

Penei Sewell and all these other elite prospects that opted out did so for good football reasons and sound business reasons 

again I hope this post treads the line between football and non football and I'm sorry if it doesn't 

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25 minutes ago, QB1 said:

Thanks. According to the article it is the same offense that Haskins had, it just emphasizes different concepts to take advantage if strengths Fields possesses that Haskins did not... mobility and better downfield passing. But, perhaps that makes it a different offense?

Regardless, the article is a testament to the OSU coaches constantly altering their O schemes to take advantage of the strengths of whatever QB is under center. And the fact that Fields coaches have done this and he has played so poorly in recent games is a concern. I hope he finishes his career with a strong game.

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2 minutes ago, sec101row23 said:

But should one performance sway your eval that much?  I mean, look at the two QBs you cited, shouldn’t there have been less emphasis on those performances?   For me, I don’t knock a kid as much for a bad game and don’t elevate him as much for a good game, too many people rise and fall on every throw from quarter to quarter.  Tonight is another data point, win, lose it’s just another game.  

It shouldn't youre right but scouts always evaluate prospects based on their toughest foe not their easiest 

this Clemson game they are big underdogs to a defense full of future NFL players 

Clemson 20 D would be his toughest test he's ever faced, by far. This defense is way better than Northwestern and Indiana.  

it is just one data point as you say but it's on national tv with every decision maker watching, it shouldn't mean more but it does

he could, feasibly, answer all the questions, get the ball out quick, and make himself millions tonight 

i don't make the rules I just report them, remind people they exist and then get rotten fruit thrown at me 

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“I dont understand the Zach Wilson fascination on this board, personally.  Sure, there is some stuff to like but compared to Fields, nah.  You're comparing and all world athlete to a Johnny Manziel.” JiF

 

ok..  you could be right.

But your take makes me wonder what all the football insiders think...?   They can be wrong, of course...but not sure I’ve read that many think Fields over Wilson is a no-brainer.  
 

fascinating game to watch tonight... 

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I thought this was an interesting article on why Fields and Lawrence are held to a different standard:

 

https://saturdaytradition.com/ohio-state-football/trevor-lawrence-isnt-held-to-the-same-standard-as-justin-fields/

 

I would totally be fine with Fields or Wilson at 2.  Bottom line is, they both have more upside than Darnold at this point.  

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6 minutes ago, bitonti said:

It shouldn't youre right but scouts always evaluate prospects based on their toughest foe not their easiest 

this Clemson game they are big underdogs to a defense full of future NFL players 

Clemson 20 D would be his toughest test he's ever faced, by far. This defense is way better than Northwestern and Indiana.  

it is just one data point as you say but it's on national tv with every decision maker watching, it shouldn't mean more but it does

he could, feasibly, answer all the questions, get the ball out quick, and make himself millions tonight 

i don't make the rules I just report them, remind people they exist and then get rotten fruit thrown at me 

Agreed, the narrative would change dramatically if he went out and threw for 350 4 TDS and won the game.  I just feel like more mistakes are made in evaluations from putting too much emphasis on any one performance, good or bad.  

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3 minutes ago, sec101row23 said:

Agreed, the narrative would change dramatically if he went out and threw for 350 4 TDS and won the game.  I just feel like more mistakes are made in evaluations from putting too much emphasis on any one performance, good or bad.  

it depends on expectations

drafting Vince Young after a great Rose Bowl sounds like a terrible decision, given full hindsight

like awful, right? 

but people forget the dude won Rookie of the year. He couldn't turn it into a long career but the standard of draft pick success is nebulous 

I feel like if you take a guy and he wins ROTY that's a good pick and what happens afterward is up to life, the universe and everything else 

If the jets take Fields at 2 and he wins ROTY i'm taking that outcome sight unseen as to what happens next 

maybe it's just because of draftdaddy but honestly my head is full of names of dudes who went nowhere. Like hundreds of names per year. After a while you start to lose faith in the best case scenario and everything becomes about avoiding the worst case scenario 

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14 minutes ago, bitonti said:

it depends on expectations

drafting Vince Young after a great Rose Bowl sounds like a terrible decision, given full hindsight

like awful, right? 

but people forget the dude won Rookie of the year. He couldn't turn it into a long career but the standard of draft pick success is nebulous 

I feel like if you take a guy and he wins ROTY that's a good pick and what happens afterward is up to life, the universe and everything else 

If the jets take Fields at 2 and he wins ROTY i'm taking that outcome sight unseen as to what happens next 

maybe it's just because of draftdaddy but honestly my head is full of names of dudes who went nowhere. Like hundreds of names per year. After a while you start to lose faith in the best case scenario and everything becomes about avoiding the worst case scenario 

That’s because the success rate is so damn low that if you basically said that every QB coming out wasn’t going to succeed, you would be correct far more than you would be wrong.  

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Fields has very good throwing mechanics.  He pushes off with the inner back foot, rotates left and right hips and keeps his front leg bent and keeps the left hand near his face mask when he transfers weight from back to front foot.  This provides the whip and slingshot effect.  Joe Namath had the exact same mechanics except Joe  kept the ball higher during his delivery.  The hip rotation and weight transfer are the same.  So I feel very good about Fields  throwing motion.

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11 hours ago, jetswinbaby! said:

I remember hearing somewhere (Cowherd show?) that after year 3, QB's rarely get dramatically better...

You mean guys like Tom Brady, Eli Manning, Drew Brees... guys like that don't get dramatically better after year 3??  LOL

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27 minutes ago, bitonti said:

it depends on expectations

drafting Vince Young after a great Rose Bowl sounds like a terrible decision, given full hindsight

like awful, right? 

but people forget the dude won Rookie of the year. He couldn't turn it into a long career but the standard of draft pick success is nebulous 

I feel like if you take a guy and he wins ROTY that's a good pick and what happens afterward is up to life, the universe and everything else 

If the jets take Fields at 2 and he wins ROTY i'm taking that outcome sight unseen as to what happens next 

maybe it's just because of draftdaddy but honestly my head is full of names of dudes who went nowhere. Like hundreds of names per year. After a while you start to lose faith in the best case scenario and everything becomes about avoiding the worst case scenario 

I don't know how you possibly can draw that conclusion. ROTY is an award on a curve. Lower expectations.

Now if you said they make the Prop Bowl in the first 3 years, then you'd be right.

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My son goes to Clemson and I'll be rooting hard for the Tigers obviously..that said, you can bet that Chris Johnson will be watching how Fields performs..if he has a lights out game and OSU wins you can be assured that JD will be getting a call to draft him...Johnson will be able to say that we got the guy who beat the number 1 pick Lawrence.

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12 hours ago, kdels62 said:

Watch the games. It’s not a stat game it’s performance that’s disconcerting. It’s failure to read the rush and release the ball. His athleticism saves him but he needs to show more.

Overreaction here . 

Are you referring to all the film or just the Indiana or NW game. In the Indiana game he was missing 3 OL starters with replacements only having a few days to practice due to covid,. In the NW game Fitzgerald's game plan was to take away Fields and drop 6/7/8  into coverage . Then on obvious passing downs they brought overload blitzes. Any QB , even NFL quality QB's will struggle in that scenario. Its why OSU ran the ball , its what NW gave them all day.  And in the NW game he was missing his top wideout Olave and he injured his hand/wrist in the1st qtr. 

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4 hours ago, Augustiniak said:

Maybe I’m in the minority but i don’t see that with fields.  Most throws he’s under no rush and locks onto one wr until the guy inevitably gets open.  He’s got a strong arm but there seems to be somewhat of a hitch in his motion.  Not sure how much pure touch he can put on his throws either, i just haven’t watched enough, whereas you watch Zach Wilson for a few minutes and you see the different arm angles and velocities needed to make different and difficult kinds of nfl throws.  Though against worse competition, Wilson also has worse teammates and you see him moving around and doing lots of stuff himself when plays break down.  I watch fields on osu and it’s like a 99 madden team where fields can wait for things to go his way or run it with his speed.  I think fields is very talented, but i think Wilson’s attributes translate better to the nfl.  I also have a hunch that the early rumors of Wilson having a ‘faster processor’ will be more flushed out as the draft process continues.

You say Fields is under no rush and then praise Wilson. Half of Wilson's games he could have made a sandwich and read a book before he had to throw. In the UCF game which everyone gushed over , he might as well have come on the field with shorts and a tee shirt , it was a glorified Pro Day workout. 

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3 hours ago, sec101row23 said:

If you’re being objective, you can’t look at how Fields has played this year And come away from it with the only concern is that he hasn’t started a lot of games.  Every QB, except for Jones at Alabama has had to deal with missing guys on offense.   That can’t be used as an excuse, especially at OSU where they have 4 and 5 star kids sitting on the bench waiting to come in. 

The Indiana game was not a bad game , he accounted for ~ 400 yards of offense and his team won . People get hung up on the 3 ints, two of which were just stupid throws trying to do too much . The NW game his stats and film look bad but taken in context of the game it makes sense . NW dropped 6/7 even 8 guys into coverage daring OSU to beat them on the ground which they smartly did.   

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2 hours ago, bitonti said:

you had me until the last statement 

Justin Fields has never thrown a pick against unranked foes. He's thrown 8 against ranked opposition. 

the "two games" everyone overrated are also the only 2 real defenses he's faced this year 

for all those going through the highlights, watch him tonight against Clemson 

Clemson has the best defense in CFB, maybe even better than Bama

this game is going to either make or break Fields draft stock 

the dude balls out, throws for a bunch, I'll be here tomorrow morning eating crow, and happy to do it. 

it's not that I don't want the Jets to have a great QB. and i have no problem with fields/Wilson/Lance at 1.29 or 2.1

I just don't know if there's any Qb in this draft worth 1.2 besides trevor 

it's such a huge gap between Sewell and the next best QB, unless Fields has a Rose Bowl signature moment sponsored by Vince Young and Sam Darnold it's a reach of monumental proportions to take any QB at 2 overall 

You were never so wrong and that's saying a lot. 

And that would be the idiotic reason to take him at #2 , because of what he did in one single game whether its blow the doors off good or stink the joint out bad. Fortunately that's not how "competent" scouting and player evaluation works.  

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15 minutes ago, 56mehl56 said:

Overreaction here . 

Are you referring to all the film or just the Indiana or NW game. In the Indiana game he was missing 3 OL starters with replacements only having a few days to practice due to covid,. In the NW game Fitzgerald's game plan was to take away Fields and drop 6/7/8  into coverage . Then on obvious passing downs they brought overload blitzes. Any QB , even NFL quality QB's will struggle in that scenario. Its why OSU ran the ball , its what NW gave them all day.  And in the NW game he was missing his top wideout Olave and he injured his hand/wrist in the1st qtr. 

The Indiana game in particular was a mess. I don’t fault him as much for the NW game. Ohio State back ups aren’t slouches, and given their talent level it’s up to Fields to show his ability. He really didn’t. 

Fields is a really good prospect but he’s showing bad cracks and what you can see in his worst games shows up in stats. For instance, against the blitz his time to release the ball actually increases which isn’t true for Wilson or Lawrence. That means he’s bailing instead of reading the game.

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3 hours ago, bitonti said:

you had me until the last statement 

Justin Fields has never thrown a pick against unranked foes. He's thrown 8 against ranked opposition. 

the "two games" everyone overrated are also the only 2 real defenses he's faced this year 

for all those going through the highlights, watch him tonight against Clemson 

Clemson has the best defense in CFB, maybe even better than Bama

this game is going to either make or break Fields draft stock 

the dude balls out, throws for a bunch, I'll be here tomorrow morning eating crow, and happy to do it. 

it's not that I don't want the Jets to have a great QB. and i have no problem with fields/Wilson/Lance at 1.29 or 2.1

I just don't know if there's any Qb in this draft worth 1.2 besides trevor 

it's such a huge gap between Sewell and the next best QB, unless Fields has a Rose Bowl signature moment sponsored by Vince Young and Sam Darnold it's a reach of monumental proportions to take any QB at 2 overall 

Great college QB prospects don’t s the bed facing Northwestern and IU

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2 minutes ago, kdels62 said:

The Indiana game in particular was a mess. I don’t fault him as much for the NW game. Ohio State back ups aren’t slouches, and given their talent level it’s up to Fields to show his ability. He really didn’t. 

Fields is a really good prospect but he’s showing bad cracks and what you can see in his worst games shows up in stats. For instance, against the blitz his time to release the ball actually increases which isn’t true for Wilson or Lawrence. That means he’s bailing instead of reading the game.

Or it means that he is using his athleticism to evade rushers and create more time. I never understood the “doesn’t check down” criticism. That is the easiest thing to teach. 

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4 hours ago, sec101row23 said:

If you’re being objective, you can’t look at how Fields has played this year And come away from it with the only concern is that he hasn’t started a lot of games.  Every QB, except for Jones at Alabama has had to deal with missing guys on offense.   That can’t be used as an excuse, especially at OSU where they have 4 and 5 star kids sitting on the bench waiting to come in. 

Not to get too defensive because I am trying to be objective but the NW game was so far from what we've ever seen from him that I really think the thumb played a huge factor. And while having players out is no excuse, I dont think this is your same old OSU, at least, not from what I've seen in the few games they've played, so I do think changing your game plan 24 hours before kickoff is a big factor.  They've played 6 games, after 3, he had more TD's than INT's.  It's easy to forget that and when you look at his turnovers; 2 were boneheaded trying to do too much plays that he clearly has learned from, 1 was 100% on him, the other 100% on his WR and other was probably the best defensive play of the year in college football.

Ultimately, I'm not going to kill him for 1 bad game (I dont consider Indiana a bad game), as ugly as it looked, there is enough dominance and wow to overlook it, especially what IMO are pretty legit albeit excuses.

 

 

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3 hours ago, bitonti said:

you had me until the last statement 

Justin Fields has never thrown a pick against unranked foes. He's thrown 8 against ranked opposition. 

the "two games" everyone overrated are also the only 2 real defenses he's faced this year 

for all those going through the highlights, watch him tonight against Clemson 

Clemson has the best defense in CFB, maybe even better than Bama

this game is going to either make or break Fields draft stock 

the dude balls out, throws for a bunch, I'll be here tomorrow morning eating crow, and happy to do it. 

it's not that I don't want the Jets to have a great QB. and i have no problem with fields/Wilson/Lance at 1.29 or 2.1

I just don't know if there's any Qb in this draft worth 1.2 besides trevor 

it's such a huge gap between Sewell and the next best QB, unless Fields has a Rose Bowl signature moment sponsored by Vince Young and Sam Darnold it's a reach of monumental proportions to take any QB at 2 overall 

steve brule GIF

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