Really thoughtful article on Gase's tenure

[pdxgreen]

My own two cents.  Not having the same OC to grow with and a decent system nurfed Sam's ability.  Every USC fan I met said that Sam hadn't shown enough in college.  Some even said he was actually better his when he was a frosh than later in his college carer.  (cough--for what that's worth)  Some QB's can only run with smaller playbooks and systems that don't ask too much but also don't expose them.  Not everybody is an Patrick Mahomes, Andrew Luck or a Justin Herbert where just throw any defensive formation or playbook and they can execute with that and have success.  If Gase really was this totally intractable or at least very stubborn in his play calling... (and Sam DID come in at and ask him to change things up) maybe it's that just the communication was never there... and Sam's mental attitude and confidence in what he could do just vanished.

[rangerous]

15 minutes ago, Charlie Brown said:

Hmmmmmmm I don’t get it.......this would make a modicum of sense if the same PROBLEMS didn’t occur in Miami!

You are joking right no presnap motion is done why precisely?

Favoring old players rather than developing younger players was done with predictable play calling why precisely?

Not using RA other than for essentially Go routes is done why precisely?

Saying he was going to emulate the same formula that FAILED in Miami and got him literally fired there was done why precisely?

There is no doubt that Sam Darnold maybe a total bum but no sane person can explain why the Jets offense was much better under Jeremy Bates than under Guru Gase.....

Want more obvious stuff, the Jets are the only team in the NFL that I know of without a true QB coach why precisely?  This last one was being done with Darnold regressing right before their eyes?

Look the Jets looked as poorly under Adam Gase as anytime in my lifetime and that includes Rich Kotite!

To essentially say that Gase’s incompetence is because the players didn’t execute his brilliance is simply mind boggling to me!

 

the comment is a reply to the basic premise that gase's plays were bad.  the simple fact that many times receivers were open or better execution by the oline or qb could've had better results does nothing to refute this.  and this isn't to give gase any excuse.  he's history.  but when a team doesn't execute it does fall on the players.

[LIJetsFan]

1 hour ago, rangerous said:

I’m no expert on nfl plays but from what I’ve read, the jets receivers were frequently open and darnold would either throw to the wrong guy or throw late.  To me this means the plays are sound. It’s the execution that needs to be improved. Just what coach doesn’t want his plays executed? The answer is none. The problem with the jets is more about the personnel who are supposed to execute the plays.  There’s just about no way any coach , living or dead, would have been able to squeeze much more out of this group.

I really really really hated Gase but THIS is a valid point in his defence.

[LIJetsFan]

58 minutes ago, ScarletKnight89 said:

I do think his name should censored. 

Burn the books! Burn the game film! Burn the press conference footage! 

Maybe in time we'll all forget it ever happened.

Remember when Rex literally buried a football after a huge embarrassing loss?  Well we need something similar for Gase.  Hey mods how about some sort of buttfumble type vote option in Gase's honor?  

[#27TheDominator]

21 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

You're speaking in mass Generalizations...

Gase's offense works for the right person - obviously a good fit for Manning.  The concept isn't the problem it's his inability to adapt the system to better suit his young QB.   I think that was the point.

As for WJ - I certainly wasn't one of those people - while Woody had a penchant for focusing too much on PR and made some poor choices because of it - The Jets record under Woody was respectable (for Jet world) with a handful of playoff wins over the years.   The team had somewhat of a plan and executed well.  Just could never find that elusive QB. 

Chris on the other hand seems to be a very nice guy, that seemingly wants to win but is totally lost - and in waaaay over his head.  If he truly does hand over the reigns to JD (as is being reported)  at least he's learned and knows enough to know what he doesn't know.  I would be impressed...

Mass generalizations?  I'm talking about the board.  I did not say that every single poster complained, but go check a game thread.  They are littered with dozens of posts each week complaining about Schottenheimer's use of motion.  Schottenheimer did alter his offense to suit his young QB.  Shrinking the field to make his progressions closer and easier to make.  We get that gif of 3 guys short of the sticks.

[genot]

7 hours ago, Losmeister said:

would gamble that that is how it was done in Denver when Manning was there.

but...   you had good players and a HOF QB.

That article is telling posters here why Darnold will be back. The same thing was said by Sunday's game announcers. Everything that coaches ddo to make it easier on a young QB, Gase doesn't do.

[redlichtie]

9 hours ago, Sonny Werblin said:

It does not have to be an attack. It could be an objective analysis as to why the scheme and calls are unproductive. They began to touch on it in his final 3 games, but ignored it prior to that. It ruins the credibility of the broadcast. Baseball announcers critically examine decisions all season long. Why can’t football do the same?

It’s not just an NFL issue but in general the critical or analytical element of commentary, or ‘colour’, is exclusively covered by recently retired players and those guys are way less likely to openly criticise a fellow coach or player in the same way that a trained journalist would.

it’s a lot harder to bury someone when you know you’ll bump into them in the corridor tomorrow or if you might need them to co-operate with you down the line, or they might be coaching your kid one day.

Back in the old days you had a guy like Howard Cosell who would have no problem calling it out in a broadcast but those guys don’t exist anymore. Imagine Mike Francesca co-commentating on MNF and you’d get plenty of critical analysis? 
Journalists are trained to ask the difficult questions, they are the ones getting shoved into lockers by angry players for the type of critical analysis that the average ex-player just doesn’t have the stomach to ask.

i actually think you’d get closer to what you were looking for were we to have an independent beat writer in the booth, imagine a guy like Cimini, or Mehta or Costello adding in their tuppence worth. Whatever you think of those guys they are not afraid to call out the coaches and players and go against the grain, the trouble is they likely go too far the other way.

The play-by-play guys are just there to flash their all-American smiles and prompt the co-commentator who is increasingly an inoffensive and handsome all-American nice guy(Romo or Aikman). 
During every broadcast the announcers talk about how they met the players and sat down with them on Friday for a cosy chat, that meeting will almost certainly have been done with the team PR staff in attendance and there was likely a time limit and a strict ‘no go zone’ on the questions they can ask. It will have all been very cosy, very cordial...and very boring.

Everything is tightly controlled and the league is particularly keen to keep everything positive and upbeat

The networks are happy to keep it pleasant and not court controversy and therefor keep the boss happy,I am always shocked by how little the NFL commentary teams bring in terms of insight, I can’t think of a single guy who thinks outside the box and brings something different or newsworthy, it’s like the sum total of their research is to look at a couple of headlines and parrot that back rather than actually do their research. The studio guys are little better, but in fairness they can’t be expected to know the dynamics of all 32 NFL teams and they are there to put in a show, the NFL is entertainment, show business, but’s it’s family entertainment and increasingly afraid of it’s own shadow.

In the case of a guy like Romo or Phil Simms or occasionally Aikman they do bring a good technical insight into how a play developed or the critical thinking at a certain point on the game, I sometimes think Collinsworth is the closest to an ‘outspoken’ guy as there is but that’s only because everyone else is so bland.

in the UK we have a much more robust approach to commentary and we have a couple of agitators who are often courting controversy but it’s just not how the NFL seems to operate. For proper critical analysis and actual journalism you need to look at individual beat writers or specialist reporters like Schefter, or draft guys like Daniel Jeremiah & Brooks

just my opinion 

[kevinc855]

I remember like yesterday scratching my head back in Jan 2019 like this is the best we can get? A lot makes sense now 

[Bugg]

11 hours ago, pointman said:

Gase runs an elementary playbook that rival must peewee league teams. No creativity, nothing to throw the defense off. 

3rd and short, how many times did they run a straight shotgun, no back. No guesswork to his formations. Why on 3rd down is any receiver short of the stick? Numerous games down 2 scores in the 4th quarter Jets were huddling up and waiting for some elaborate play call that burned the clock and any chance of a comeback. Had a total mismatch most games with Big Ticket, but rarely used it. 1st game this season vs. Bills, ran 2 plays behind him early and road graded the crap out of the Bills front 7, and they never went back to it. Typical of many bad coaches who were OCs; they call their plays, they don't care about down, distance, clock, score, mismatches for you or them. This wasn't a secret to anyone who saw his act with the Dolphins. Johnsons going on 3 decades don't get how seriously effed up their offense has been pretty much since the day Favre got hurt. 

[Bugg]

2 hours ago, Integrity28 said:

No, they just ran Peyton’s offense. He made the calls at the line mostly. Gase without Manning is like an orchestra conductor without arms.

Manning and Tom Moore drew up an offense that worked for him, and he knew if he didn't like the play he would audible at the line. Really, Manning had a HoF career before he ever met Gase. Did Darnold even once audible? Not saying it never happened,. but if he saw something he didn't like, Darnold called a timeout. 

[y2k8]

 

I knew he was a bad hire the day he was introduced. Not because of how he looked but what he said.

He was asked about lessons learned in Miami and specifically "what he would do differently with the Jets?"

His reply "nothing" 

Can you imagine hiring *anyone* for *any* job that answered that question that way?

[Integrity28]

1 hour ago, Bugg said:

Manning and Tom Moore drew up an offense that worked for him, and he knew if he didn't like the play he would audible at the line. Really, Manning had a HoF career before he ever met Gase. Did Darnold even once audible? Not saying it never happened,. but if he saw something he didn't like, Darnold called a timeout. 

It’s been reported that most plays didn’t have plays for him to audible to.

[Charlie Brown]

1 hour ago, Bugg said:

Manning and Tom Moore drew up an offense that worked for him, and he knew if he didn't like the play he would audible at the line. Really, Manning had a HoF career before he ever met Gase. Did Darnold even once audible? Not saying it never happened,. but if he saw something he didn't like, Darnold called a timeout. 

Darnold was not permitted to AUDIBLE another problem!

People trying defend Gase IMO are nuts!!!  

[jago]

Very Lombardi like. If we run the sweep and pick up our blocks, they can't stop us. Run it. Run it again.

lol yesterday i wandered into jerry stiller lombardi nike ads. great stuff.

[jago]

Another thing that hChas morphed over the years.  I remember when Woody was the evil and Chris was the savior.  Nothing could be worse than Woody. "Stay over there for another decade."  Now we want to blame Chris?

that saying, “the devil you know..”

[Losmeister]

9 hours ago, Integrity28 said:

No, they just ran Peyton’s offense. He made the calls at the line mostly. Gase without Manning is like an orchestra conductor without arms.

thats what I am saying. they had the players to just line up and snap it w/o alotta motion and stuff cos they had a HOF Qb.

we had....  erm, 

[The Gooch]

Who care's about Gase!!! He's gone!!