Bronx Posted January 29, 2021 Share Posted January 29, 2021 If youu don't have an elite QB, most likely you won't go to the Super Bowl. How hard is that to understand? When is Sam going to become elite? from all of the sudden? Are we going to build a team through the draft and hope a miracle QB pops in? Or maybe gamble for another 3 years while making this outstanding coach miserable. We have capital (never mentioned in this video), the team will be attractive (good vets might take a pay cut) and we will be guaranteed the most important thing, an elite QB How many of these teams with 2nd tier QBs have made it to the SB? I rest my case. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetsfan80 Posted January 29, 2021 Share Posted January 29, 2021 1 hour ago, Pac said: Unfortunately I do.. all of them. I've seen horrific coaching, injuries galore, and complacent gm'ing give the impression that a promising young QB is broken beyond repair. If we run it back with Sam next year and surround him with what is possible with our picks and in FA, I believe we will see young Sam rise like a m'fin Phoenix and serve a plate of Crow so bountiful, that his haters will be choking on beaks and talons for months! SO IT IS SAID, SO IT SHALL BE. The coaching, injuries and GMing "failed" Mark Sanchez and Geno Smith, too. Didn't suddenly make them good at their next stops. But I guess Sammy is different this time! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenFish Posted January 29, 2021 Share Posted January 29, 2021 He’s not wrong in his analysis of the Jets. We have a lot of holes. He lost me at the end by calling NE a team that is a QB away though. Maybe they’re a Brady away. But Watson is not Brady. Look to trade for Watson but the minute it gets to be too expensive, call it a day. More than 3 first is too expensive. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted January 29, 2021 Share Posted January 29, 2021 1 hour ago, FidelioJet said: While you make reasonable points and theoretically they make sense.. I will have to continue to disagree with you - as far as text book you're correct, as far as the reality in our current situation, I simply can't agree. If we end up drafting a QB at 2. You need to do EVERYTHING in your power to turn him into a player. That means supporting him however you can. Give him the resources he needs to succeed. If he becomes the guy you want him to be then you'll have 15 years to build a balanced team around him. Once you have established then what you've listed above would be the proper approach to take. Developing a franchise QB needs to be top priority of any organization. I was originally all for trading for Watson as that would solve that concern...but he's shown if he's not happy he'll become a problem AND the Jets, by giving up most of their premium resources to acquire him, won't be able to put the assets around him in time for him not to sour. And now you want to split those resources between offense and defense - forget it. His agent will be calling Woody a racist by Dec. He's shown he hasn't been able to win with lesser talent, so the best option is to pass on him - unless you can really get him cheap - something like, Sam, #2 and #34 - anything more than that and you're just kicking this problem down the road two to three years when you'll have trade him again as the new GM and HC search begins. That's ok, there's no rule that says you have to agree with me (until I've completed my takeover as Emperor of Moderators, but that's not for a few more weeks). Everything in our power doesn't therefore make it a zero-sum game, where every pick or asset given to the defense is an indirect barrier to success for the QB. Such a view presumes that a QB's development is not impacted by a defense that surrenders 30+ ppg, which you know is ridiculous. It affects playcalling, it affects the defense he's facing, and it affects him and other players when they "know" the D is just going to crap the bed as soon as they're on the field. There's also such a thing as going overboard to make it too cushy. That's obviously not been an issue with the Jets, but if he only performs with a perfect OL and perfect receivers and a 1400-yard workhorse back, then excuse me wtf do we need to also burn a #2 overall pick for on a QB? A lot of what Watson brings is the removal of a need to willfully ignore half the team for a year or two as though anyone's done that en route to a championship. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted January 29, 2021 Share Posted January 29, 2021 @FidelioJet As for the risk of him wanting out here, too? Nah. Watson isn't going to be able to cry wolf a second time. One time, sure, whether or not everyone agrees there's a wolf down there, but he's never done it before so he gets the benefit of the doubt. The time/environment is right (if "right" is really the correct word) for people coast to coast having sympathy for him as the squeaky-clean good guy with no record of making noise negatively about his team or FO, who was obnoxiously slighted via a broken promise just so ownership can keep everything white as rain. Not a hard narrative to follow as things played out. The reality is, while I'm certain that's what Watson is seeing, he also sees the crap situation and ownership has foolishly provided him with an easy out. Without a clean slate, Watson's not going to get such an easy out here & anyway it'd comparatively fall on deaf ears railing against ownership that (if you value actions more than words) has done more for hiring minority HCs - plus retaining them past their worth with undeserved extensions - than any other NFL team. This just isn't a concern I have. His agent didn't even say that about McNair (in his deleted post what he railed against was nepotism, not racism), so if he left that easy accusation out with McNair I don't see how/why he'll now start with Johnson, in the face of Jets' ex-players/employees very publicly saying we're an organization with good people up top (the trash results stemming from incompetence, not interference & intolerance). Tuck the info from this situation away, sure, but if I'm Douglas I'm not bypassing on Watson because of something that has such a puny chance of happening (never mind within the upcoming 5 years). Right now Watson can do this because he's got a clean slate. He does it again with another team - never mind so soon, for a team with a sterling record of promoting minority HCs - and 90% of those taking his side now will scoff at using civil rights issues so frivolously and so transparently for his own benefit. FFS as it is his only direct statements I recall was him telling people don't rally in on his behalf so they don't contribute to spreading covid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stark Posted January 29, 2021 Share Posted January 29, 2021 5 minutes ago, bitonti said: im team sewell which makes me hugely unpopular with all other fans the Jets don't have the infrastructure to protect any QB, even Trevor, (but they'd have to take him anyway) this isn't really about what the fans want and it never was if Coach Saleh can revive Sam's career he will look like a genius, and if he doesn't, well nothing really lost... it's a free year from his perspective that's the game theory way through not push all in on Watson or Wilson/Fields in year 1 of Saleh just for the hell of it, what you do with Becton keep him left or move him right? The JETS aren't going to be the same dog sh*t coached team more than likely Gase is an all time bad coach. I would think our offensive line is going to be addressed by at least 1 FA and in draft. Overall Line play should be better this year because of those. The Shanahan offense is designed for QB's to not have to be dropping 7 and putting pressure on Oline. it shouldn't be about what the fans want, I agree. If we go the revive Sam's career route and it doesn't nothing really lost... Shouldn't be a free year for anyone, ever. I agree if this system revives Sams career to the 3rd overall pick in the draft that would be great, but... what do you see from Sam that makes you think that's possible? I wonder. If "hypothetically" someone told you the JETS were going to trade Jamal Adams and a 1st round pick for Watson, where would you stand? I understand the trade compensation is, in no way, set to that number.. Could you see a scenario where you are JD and you give up 1st round picks and ensure you have a to 5 QB knowing you still have 2nd and 2-3rd round picks this year (plus the rest - & whatever you get from Darnold trade) all 2nd and 3rd round picks next draft .... I mean I get that people see the 4 first round picks and think 4 all pros, but we all know that's not likely. sure we can get starting quality players with those picks but just draft picks plus all the money we have in FA we can address positions of need and be more calculated in our acquisitions. Im not saying go sign the biggest $$$ guys either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
extmenace Posted January 29, 2021 Share Posted January 29, 2021 5 hours ago, rangerous said: Seems like people are throwing around draft picks without much consideration for where they are. Three first round picks may mean two this season and one next. Or they may mean one in each of the next 3 drafts. If I were the Texans I’d want this to be front loaded so I get the higher picks early rather than spread out. And if I’m the jets I’d deal this years two plus first rounders in the next two drafts. We’ll see. I’d be willing to bet Douglas is looking at these types of scenarios. Kind of annoying to me that nobody is considering the value of the number 2 pick. Jamal adams, mack and etc did not net a top 2 pick. According to the draft pick point system, the number 2 pick is worth 2600 points. The number 20 pick is worth 850 points. That number 2 pick is worth 3 #20 picks. By no means am I saying that all trades can be based off the point system but it does at least give you an idea of what that pick is worth. If someone hypothetically had 3 picks inside the 20-25 range this year and then traded another pick that landed in the 20-25 range next year, the media would be praising the Texans for getting a kings ransom. Watson is awesome, a true franchise qb but look at the two teams in the super bowl. They are absolutely stacked. You can’t win in the nfl with a Peyton manning and a mediocre colts team anymore. Watson, in my mind is worth the number 2 pick and Seattle’s first this year only. If the Texans want more picks, they can trade that number 2 pick and turn it into however many picks they can get. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stark Posted January 29, 2021 Share Posted January 29, 2021 1 hour ago, FidelioJet said: While you make reasonable points and theoretically they make sense.. I will have to continue to disagree with you - as far as text book you're correct, as far as the reality in our current situation, I simply can't agree. If we end up drafting a QB at 2. You need to do EVERYTHING in your power to turn him into a player. That means supporting him however you can. Give him the resources he needs to succeed. If he becomes the guy you want him to be then you'll have 15 years to build a balanced team around him. Once you have established then what you've listed above would be the proper approach to take. Developing a franchise QB needs to be top priority of any organization. I was originally all for trading for Watson as that would solve that concern...but he's shown if he's not happy he'll become a problem AND the Jets, by giving up most of their premium resources to acquire him, won't be able to put the assets around him in time for him not to sour. And now you want to split those resources between offense and defense - forget it. His agent will be calling Woody a racist by Dec. He's shown he hasn't been able to win with lesser talent, so the best option is to pass on him - unless you can really get him cheap - something like, Sam, #2 and #34 - anything more than that and you're just kicking this problem down the road two to three years when you'll have trade him again as the new GM and HC search begins. His problem is with the owner, and front office. Not his team... Watson is a high character player that is only responding to being treated like sh*t and being lied to. If you are the Texans owner and you tell your QB or anyone you are going to do X,Y,Z and you don't its going to piss them off. factor in other players are in agreement with Watson about the Texans FO being a sh*t show and you can't say Watson is a malcontent. You say do everything in your power to turn the QB you take at 2 into a player. If he becomes the guy... if he doesn't your only kicking the problem down the road 2 - 3 year. wash, rinse, repeat. Can the JETS build a team without acquiring Watson sure they can, you even allude to that in your last paragraph... and you give the compensation so I ask... how many draft picks do yo need each year to have a successful draft? because you seem to be hung up on the quantity of picks. Jamal Adams and #2 over all and Sam for Watson? Man I make that trade everyday of the week. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FidelioJet Posted January 29, 2021 Share Posted January 29, 2021 1 hour ago, JiF said: The bold is absolutely not true. I've said in this thread, at least 5 times, it's not about 2021 or even 2022 for that matter, it's about 15 years of having a top 3 QB in the NFL. And yes, he is that type of player. 100%. While I agree that these two years don't necessarily matter - but this is a player that just forced his way out of a situation. What happens after two years of no talent football? Do you expect him to sit around - or will he be busy on Twitter? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FidelioJet Posted January 29, 2021 Share Posted January 29, 2021 8 hours ago, Charlie Brown said: Hey I am confused..... I thought that you wanted Watson!!! I did But I'm really starting to get worried about him - he pulling a full-court Adams, he's being more sneaky having his friends and his agent do his dirty work. At this point, if we don't immediately surround him with talent it'll get ugly fast - and if we have to give up too much we won't be able to surround him with talent and this is just a disaster waiting to happen. If we can get him for Sam, #2 and #34 then sure. Anything more than that and I am really worried about him pulling the same sugar two years from now. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenFish Posted January 29, 2021 Share Posted January 29, 2021 Hypothetically, if the Jets trade back and do a relatively descent job plugging holes and Darnold bust AGAIN, what is the Jets record? Looking around the league at teams that suck balls at QB but have a good supporting cast. In 2022, We’d at best be picking in the 6-12 range with an additional 1st. The doomsday scenario if Darnold bombs again is us essentially being the Carolina Panthers of this year but with an additional 1st. I wouldn’t bring back Darnold, but giving him one last shot is not the end of the world. Joe D better hit on his draft picks. If Detroit is able to get a 1st for Stafford, they’d be a good trade back partner and we can pick up an additional 1st. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetsfan80 Posted January 29, 2021 Share Posted January 29, 2021 4 minutes ago, GreenFish said: Hypothetically, if the Jets trade back and do a relatively descent job plugging holes and Darnold bust AGAIN, what is the Jets record? Looking around the league at teams that suck balls at QB but have a good supporting cast. We’d at best be picking in the 6-12 range with an additional 1st. The doomsday scenario if Darnold bombs again is us being the Carolina Panthers of they had an additional 1st. I wouldn’t bring back Darnold, but giving him one last shot is not the end of the world. Joe D better hit on his draft picks. If Detroit is able to get a 1st for Stafford, they’d be a good trade back partner and we can pick up an additional 1st. Darnold being the undisputed starting QB of the Jets in 2021 is a good way to give me zero interest in this season. It will also force me to call for the GM's firing. Since football is an entertainment industry I'd prefer to have something entertaining versus something I have zero interest watching. And I certainly hope Joe Douglas is much smarter than this. Darnold will fail. Of this there can be no question. So if the team wants to tank away a season when there's no real reason to do so, they can have fun with that. I can't possibly imagine a good reason why we can't have a legitimate QB competition this summer. Not one. Sticking with and building around Sam Darnold, who is a proven failure and has just 1 year left on his contract, makes absolutely no sense. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustInFudge Posted January 29, 2021 Share Posted January 29, 2021 17 minutes ago, FidelioJet said: While I agree that these two years don't necessarily matter - but this is a player that just forced his way out of a situation. What happens after two years of no talent football? Do you expect him to sit around - or will he be busy on Twitter? Look, I'm shocked we're even having this conversation. This, never ever happens. So I dont have the answers. I dont follow Twitter, so I didnt even know that he had a Twitter meltdown or whatever, I thought all he said was "I'm a 2 now I'm 10". Is that bad? Idk, social media is the devil. Either way, I really dont understand why everyone is acting like you cant add additional talent with Watson. It's very strange. The Jets have 6 picks in the top 100 this year. Say you give away both 1st rounders, I dont think you need to but lets just play a game real quick. Jets trade for Watson leaving roughly 50 mil to work with so they're also able to add Robinson and Thuney. With their first 4 picks 34, 66, 87, 99 - they land what I believe are immediate starters/contributors in this draft - 34. CB - Tyson Campbell. 66. C - Creed Humphrey 87. WR - Amari Rodgers 99. RB - Javonte Williams. And that's not even going into the later rounds where I think you can find some sleeper OL, CB's and even more WR's if you wanted to wait on Rodgers since you got Robinson in FA. That is 100% a realistic and in one offseason you just built one of the most explosive offensive teams in Football and threw in #1 CB with the first pick just to show off. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenFish Posted January 29, 2021 Share Posted January 29, 2021 19 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said: Darnold being the undisputed starting QB of the Jets in 2021 is a good way to give me zero interest in this season. It will also force me to call for the GM's firing. Since football is an entertainment industry I'd prefer to have something entertaining versus something I have zero interest watching. And I certainly hope Joe Douglas is much smarter than this. Darnold will fail. Of this there can be no question. So if the team wants to tank away a season when there's no real reason to do so, they can have fun with that. I can't possibly imagine a good reason why we can't have a legitimate QB competition this summer. Not one. Sticking with and building around Sam Darnold, who is a proven failure and has just 1 year left on his contract, makes absolutely no sense. Yea I don’t think it’s ideal. But I’m a Jets fans...the only way to survive and maintain sanity is to look at the cup half full. So I’m out here to trying to convince myself of the Joe D plan. Lol. It’s a tough sell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FidelioJet Posted January 29, 2021 Share Posted January 29, 2021 1 hour ago, JiF said: Look, I'm shocked we're even having this conversation. This, never ever happens. So I dont have the answers. I dont follow Twitter, so I didnt even know that he had a Twitter meltdown or whatever, I thought all he said was "I'm a 2 now I'm 10". Is that bad? Idk, social media is the devil. Either way, I really dont understand why everyone is acting like you cant add additional talent with Watson. It's very strange. The Jets have 6 picks in the top 100 this year. Say you give away both 1st rounders, I dont think you need to but lets just play a game real quick. Jets trade for Watson leaving roughly 50 mil to work with so they're also able to add Robinson and Thuney. With their first 4 picks 34, 66, 87, 99 - they land what I believe are immediate starters/contributors in this draft - 34. CB - Tyson Campbell. 66. C - Creed Humphrey 87. WR - Amari Rodgers 99. RB - Javonte Williams. And that's not even going into the later rounds where I think you can find some sleeper OL, CB's and even more WR's if you wanted to wait on Rodgers since you got Robinson in FA. That is 100% a realistic and in one offseason you just built one of the most explosive offensive teams in Football and threw in #1 CB with the first pick just to show off. So, in this scenario we're giving up #2 and #23 and that's it for Watson. In that case I agree. Good move. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunnie Posted January 29, 2021 Share Posted January 29, 2021 His father played for the Giants. He doesn’t want the Jets to own NY. He’s a haterI completely agree with Simms… bringing Watson here now will handcuff this team and prevent us from building talent throughout the roster. The fact that people can't see this is amazing to me. So sure if you like to go 4 and 12... 5 and 11 for the next 5 to 6 years... By all means bring Watson in .... Why should we change our way of thinking now after 42 years of losing.Sent from my SM-G950U1 using JetNation.com mobile app 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dcat Posted January 30, 2021 Share Posted January 30, 2021 9 hours ago, FidelioJet said: His argument is sound. Watson is a good QB, entering his prime As good as he is, Watson without talent doesn't win Jets have no talent Therefor, Watson won't win with the Jets Finally, Jets should use their resources to build an NFL roster It's pretty sound thinking and accurate to the situation. Once again, as has been shown by many in this thread over-and-over again, the view above is overly simplistic and incorrect. Not going to repeat all the reasons why because you simply ignore them. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jet_Engine1 Posted January 30, 2021 Share Posted January 30, 2021 8 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said: The coaching, injuries and GMing "failed" Mark Sanchez and Geno Smith, too. Didn't suddenly make them good at their next stops. But I guess Sammy is different this time! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dcat Posted January 30, 2021 Share Posted January 30, 2021 Darnold revival is nothing more than a fairy tale. Wilson vs Watson? Give me Watson. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philc1 Posted January 30, 2021 Share Posted January 30, 2021 21 hours ago, johnnyjet said: His father played for the Giants. He doesn’t want the Jets to own NY. He’s a hater Or he’s actually right and his brother played for the jets Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philc1 Posted January 30, 2021 Share Posted January 30, 2021 14 hours ago, GreenFish said: He’s not wrong in his analysis of the Jets. We have a lot of holes. He lost me at the end by calling NE a team that is a QB away though. Maybe they’re a Brady away. But Watson is not Brady. Look to trade for Watson but the minute it gets to be too expensive, call it a day. More than 3 first is too expensive. Agree. The pats with that current roster with Watson misses the playoffs 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philc1 Posted January 30, 2021 Share Posted January 30, 2021 15 hours ago, JiF said: The bold is absolutely not true. I've said in this thread, at least 5 times, it's not about 2021 or even 2022 for that matter, it's about 15 years of having a top 3 QB in the NFL. And yes, he is that type of player. 100%. Top 3? Since when is Watson top 3? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philc1 Posted January 30, 2021 Share Posted January 30, 2021 19 hours ago, Pac said: He just went 4-12 on a more talented team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowles Movement Posted January 30, 2021 Share Posted January 30, 2021 21 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said: More than several? RD1 RD2 RD3 RD4 RD5 RD6 RD7 PK/TM PK/TM PK/TM PK/TM PK/TM PK/TM PK/TM 1 JAX 3000 33 JAX 580 65 JAX 265 96 JAX 116 128 JAX 44 160 TEN 26.2 191 JAX 13.8 2 NYJ 2600 34 NYJ 560 66 NYJ 260 97 NYJ 112 129 NYJ 43 161 NYJ 25.8 192 SF 13.4 3 MIA 2200 35 ATL 550 67 HOU 255 98 ATL 108 130 HOU 42 162 ATL 25.4 193 HOU 13 4 ATL 1800 36 MIA 540 68 ATL 250 99 HOU 104 131 ATL 41 163 HOU 25 194 MIA 12.6 5 CIN 1700 37 PHI 530 69 PHI 245 100 CLE 100 132 CIN 40 164 PHI 24.6 195 CIN 12.2 6 PHI 1600 38 CIN 520 70 CIN 240 101 CIN 96 133 PHI 39.5 165 CIN 24.2 196 PHI 11.8 7 DET 1500 39 CAR 510 71 DEN 235 102 DET 92 134 CAR 39 166 DEN 23.8 197 SEA 11.4 8 CAR 1400 40 DEN 500 72 DET 230 103 CAR 88 135 DEN 38.5 167 DAL 23.4 198 BUF 11 9 DEN 1350 41 DET 490 73 CAR 225 104 DEN 86 136 DET 38 168 CAR 23 199 DEN 10.6 10 DAL 1300 42 NYG 480 74 WAS 220 105 DAL 84 137 NYJ 37.5 169 SF 22.6 200 DAL 10.2 11 NYG 1250 43 SF 470 75 DAL 215 106 NYG 82 138 SF 37 170 NE 22.2 201 DEN 9.8 12 SF 1200 44 DAL 460 76 NYG 210 107 SF 80 139 PHI 36.5 171 NYG 21.8 202 SF 9.4 13 LAC 1150 45 JAX 450 77 LAC 205 108 LAC 78 140 MIN 36 172 NE 21.4 203 LAC 9 14 MIN 1100 46 NE 440 78 MIN 200 109 ATL 76 141 NE 35.5 173 LAC 21 204 MIN 8.6 15 NE 1050 47 LAC 430 79 ARI 195 110 NE 74 142 LAC 35 174 MIN 20.6 205 NE 8.2 16 ARI 1000 48 LV 420 80 LV 190 111 LV 72 143 ARI 34.5 175 NYG 20.2 206 ARI 7.8 17 LV 950 49 ARI 410 81 MIA 185 112 HOU 70 144 BUF 34 176 HOU 19.8 207 LV 7.4 18 MIA 900 50 MIA 400 82 WAS 180 113 MIA 68 145 LV 33.5 177 LV 19.4 208 PIT 7 19 WAS 875 51 WAS 390 83 CHI 175 114 WAS 66 146 WAS 33 178 CHI 19 209 WAS 6.6 20 CHI 850 52 CHI 380 84 IND 170 115 MIN 64 147 CHI 31.4 179 LAC 18.6 210 LV 6.2 21 IND 800 53 TEN 370 85 TEN 165 116 TEN 62 148 IND 31 180 IND 18.2 211 IND 5.8 22 TEN 780 54 IND 360 86 NYJ 160 117 IND 60 149 TEN 30.6 181 MIA 17.8 212 JAX 5.4 23 NYJ 760 55 PIT 350 87 PIT 155 118 PIT 58 150 SEA 30.2 182 KC 17.4 213 SEA 5 24 PIT 740 56 SEA 340 88 LAR 150 119 SEA 56 151 PIT 29.8 183 LAR 17 214 TB 4.6 25 JAX 720 57 LAR 330 89 CLE 145 120 JAX 54 152 CLE 29.4 184 BAL 16.6 215 LAR 4.2 26 CLE 700 58 BAL 320 90 MIN 140 121 BAL 52 153 JAX 29 185 CLE 16.2 216 DEN 3.8 27 BAL 680 59 CLE 310 91 CLE 136 122 CLE 50 154 MIN 28.6 186 HOU 15.8 217 PIT 3.4 28 NO 660 60 NO 300 92 GB 132 123 NO 49 155 SF 28.2 187 BUF 15.4 218 GB 3 29 GB 640 61 BUF 292 93 BUF 128 124 MIN 48 156 GB 27.8 188 GB 15 219 CLE 2.3 30 BUF 620 62 GB 284 94 TB 124 125 GB 47 157 BUF 27.4 189 PIT 14.6 220 TB 2 31 TB 600 63 TB 276 95 KC 120 126 TB 46 158 TB 27 190 TEN 14.2 221 MIA 1.7 32 KC 590 64 KC 270 127 KC 45 159 KC 26.6 According to this chart which typically understates the value of draft picks when it comes to moving up for QBs a pick in the 20s averages 700 pts in value whereas the number 2 pick is worth 2600 pts. So the number 2 pick is probably worth 4 number 1 s in the mid 20s easily. Comparing this trade to Adam’s trade needs to take that into consideration. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bitonti Posted January 30, 2021 Share Posted January 30, 2021 17 hours ago, Stark said: just for the hell of it, what you do with Becton keep him left or move him right? The JETS aren't going to be the same dog sh*t coached team more than likely Gase is an all time bad coach. I would think our offensive line is going to be addressed by at least 1 FA and in draft. Overall Line play should be better this year because of those. The Shanahan offense is designed for QB's to not have to be dropping 7 and putting pressure on Oline. it shouldn't be about what the fans want, I agree. If we go the revive Sam's career route and it doesn't nothing really lost... Shouldn't be a free year for anyone, ever. I agree if this system revives Sams career to the 3rd overall pick in the draft that would be great, but... what do you see from Sam that makes you think that's possible? I wonder. If "hypothetically" someone told you the JETS were going to trade Jamal Adams and a 1st round pick for Watson, where would you stand? I understand the trade compensation is, in no way, set to that number.. If the Jets draft Sewell he plays left tackle and Becton mauls on the right. As for the hypothetical trade, I'd wonder what's in it for Watson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post tfine Posted January 30, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted January 30, 2021 Chris Simms is 100 percent right Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app 4 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FidelioJet Posted January 30, 2021 Share Posted January 30, 2021 14 minutes ago, bitonti said: If the Jets draft Sewell he plays left tackle and Becton mauls on the right. As for the hypothetical trade, I'd wonder what's in it for Watson I agree, Becton is a RT and would almost immediately be the best RT in the league. Sewell could be a dominant LT. But what do you want to do at QB? Seriously, I get it, having two bookends for the next decade would be great But why not take a QB at 2 and then the top Tackle at 23. They'll still be a lot of good ones on the board. Kicking the QB can down the road isn't helping this team. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bitonti Posted January 30, 2021 Share Posted January 30, 2021 18 minutes ago, FidelioJet said: I agree, Becton is a RT and would almost immediately be the best RT in the league. Sewell could be a dominant LT. But what do you want to do at QB? Seriously, I get it, having two bookends for the next decade would be great But why not take a QB at 2 and then the top Tackle at 23. They'll still be a lot of good ones on the board. Kicking the QB can down the road isn't helping this team. Honest answer I want to see darnold / Mullins and Morgan compete. The jets qb room is very young already it does not need to get younger. There will be other opportunities for drafting the qb 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tfine Posted January 30, 2021 Share Posted January 30, 2021 We tend to get a little starstruck every time a big name is available. Especially a QB. It’s not just us fans but the media as well. The truth is we are not QB away from a championship. If you look at the Super Bowl teams not only are the QBs great but both teams are LOADED with talent. The QB is only one piece of the puzzle it’s a big piece but a piece nonetheless. Look at the GB packers Rodgers has been the best QB in the NFL for almost 17 years. Yet he only has 1 SuperBowl during that time. Why? because his defense hasn’t been up to par and among other things. Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted January 30, 2021 Share Posted January 30, 2021 @Bowles Movement I’m not quoting all that because of the poor formatting, but a pick in the mid-20s is not a mid-1st round pick. Even using that over-quoted chart you posted as though it was gospel, a pick in the mid-20s is like 700. A 4:1 ratio to pick #2 would be about 650, or roughly 4 picks in the 28-29 range. That’s a stretch to call #28-29 “mid-20s” as it is, let alone presume #28-29 value as equivalent to a pick in the middle of round 1. Several is a vague term — technically it means more than two, but textbook definitions aside no one actually uses it for as little as 3 in practice (when a few is more apt). If I tell you to drive several miles down the road, or something happens several months from now, it’s unlikely anyone is thinking I mean just 3. Not only is 4 probably the barest minimum common usage of several (people usually say the number when they mean 4, and I think I’m like most in figuring at least 5 to upwards of 7 or even 8 when I hear/use it myself). He further went overboard to not say merely several but rather more than several which is comically ridiculous. Several is a range, not a specific number that stops at 4 or even 5 to most anyone; it would at least cover a range up to 6 (though I’d use it to mean 7 more than I’d use it for 4). It would suggest greater than 6 to qualify for a typical person to say more than several of anything. “More than several” is not 1 more than the minimum to be possibly used as “several” anyway; since it’s not a specific, single number, it means more than the range encompassed by “several” i.e. at least 7, if not at least 8. 3-4 picks in the late 20s is not “more than several [i.e. ≥7] mid-first round picks” as he put it. And come on, you know that. If you or I say “mid-1st round picks” then most people are probably thinking of of draft slots in the 12-20 range, with 16 being the median (not in the mid-20s and definitely not into the late 20s). Pick #2 overall is about 2.5x pick #16, by using chart math. Any more than that, and you’re talking about not only a must-draft prospect at #2 but to further have him followed by an enormous perceived drop-off, where any of the next several (i.e. 4-7) prospects could go #3, like in 2019. That situation doesn’t exist this year. Maybe it would have if Fields had Trask’s game against Alabama, but he didn’t. So, no way is the #2 pick worth “more than several first round picks,” and if it could even in theory, it’d be limited a very unique, perfect-storm scenario that doesn’t exist this year. The prosecution rests. (OK I never rest; please respond/continue so I can babble on for another several paragraphs about these semantics.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustInFudge Posted January 30, 2021 Share Posted January 30, 2021 4 hours ago, Philc1 said: Top 3? Since when is Watson top 3? Since I said so Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philc1 Posted January 30, 2021 Share Posted January 30, 2021 1 hour ago, JiF said: Since I said so Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunnie Posted January 30, 2021 Share Posted January 30, 2021 Since I said soHey . What's that on the ground over there ??? Oh .. it's my ASS ... I laughed it off.Sent from my SM-G950U1 using JetNation.com mobile app Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowles Movement Posted February 1, 2021 Share Posted February 1, 2021 On 1/30/2021 at 10:09 AM, Sperm Edwards said: @Bowles Movement I’m not quoting all that because of the poor formatting, but a pick in the mid-20s is not a mid-1st round pick. Even using that over-quoted chart you posted as though it was gospel, a pick in the mid-20s is like 700. A 4:1 ratio to pick #2 would be about 650, or roughly 4 picks in the 28-29 range. That’s a stretch to call #28-29 “mid-20s” as it is, let alone presume #28-29 value as equivalent to a pick in the middle of round 1. Several is a vague term — technically it means more than two, but textbook definitions aside no one actually uses it for as little as 3 in practice (when a few is more apt). If I tell you to drive several miles down the road, or something happens several months from now, it’s unlikely anyone is thinking I mean just 3. Not only is 4 probably the barest minimum common usage of several (people usually say the number when they mean 4, and I think I’m like most in figuring at least 5 to upwards of 7 or even 8 when I hear/use it myself). He further went overboard to not say merely several but rather more than several which is comically ridiculous. Several is a range, not a specific number that stops at 4 or even 5 to most anyone; it would at least cover a range up to 6 (though I’d use it to mean 7 more than I’d use it for 4). It would suggest greater than 6 to qualify for a typical person to say more than several of anything. “More than several” is not 1 more than the minimum to be possibly used as “several” anyway; since it’s not a specific, single number, it means more than the range encompassed by “several” i.e. at least 7, if not at least 8. 3-4 picks in the late 20s is not “more than several [i.e. ≥7] mid-first round picks” as he put it. And come on, you know that. If you or I say “mid-1st round picks” then most people are probably thinking of of draft slots in the 12-20 range, with 16 being the median (not in the mid-20s and definitely not into the late 20s). Pick #2 overall is about 2.5x pick #16, by using chart math. Any more than that, and you’re talking about not only a must-draft prospect at #2 but to further have him followed by an enormous perceived drop-off, where any of the next several (i.e. 4-7) prospects could go #3, like in 2019. That situation doesn’t exist this year. Maybe it would have if Fields had Trask’s game against Alabama, but he didn’t. So, no way is the #2 pick worth “more than several first round picks,” and if it could even in theory, it’d be limited a very unique, perfect-storm scenario that doesn’t exist this year. The prosecution rests. (OK I never rest; please respond/continue so I can babble on for another several paragraphs about these semantics.) We gave up 3 second rd picks to move from 6 to 3 and that was a year with 4 qbs that everyone ranked differently. plug that into your calculator and tell me how that fits with your “defense” Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted February 1, 2021 Share Posted February 1, 2021 6 hours ago, Bowles Movement said: We gave up 3 second rd picks to move from 6 to 3 and that was a year with 4 qbs that everyone ranked differently. plug that into your calculator and tell me how that fits with your “defense” I’m the prosecution, not the defense You are the one who posted a chart to use for calculation, so imo either use it or don’t use it. Either is fine, and of course individuals rank prospects differently, but if you’re going to use the chart as you posted, then #2 is not worth “more than several mid-1st round picks” and frankly It isn’t even in the ballpark. A mid-1st round pick is pick 16 give or take 3-4 slots. Some might be as high as 12, some as low as 20, but if you’re going to cumulatively refer to all of them as mid 1st round picks they won’t all be at (let alone worse than) pick 20. Even if they were all as low as #28 it still wouldn’t sniff at requiring “more than several” (i.e. some 7-10 of them) to trade up to #2, let alone in this draft with no consensus #2 prospect. FFS plenty still believe Sewell should be or will go at #2, and no one is trading in excess of 5-6 1st rounders to get to #2 in a draft where an offensive lineman is even a possible #2 overall pick. The 2018 draft was unique. I can explain if needed, but I think you know that other than Lawrence - and Lawrence alone - this class isn’t universally viewed the same way as 2018, where any of 4 different players had the potential to be the #1 overall pick. Plus while it exceeded chart value, the Jets’ trade-up was in the ballpark. 6+37+49+75ish = ~2750, or overpayment by a single high 2nd round pick (about 550). High, but not laughable-WTF. Several mid 1st rounders - excuse me, more than several mid 1st rounders - would be well outside that overpayment, and comfortably in the laughable-WTF range. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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