Is Chris Simms Right About Watson?

[Charlie Brown]

Hmmmmm just a thought.....

 

[johnnyjet]

His father played for the Giants.  He doesn’t want the Jets to own NY. He’s a hater

[Charlie Brown]

3 minutes ago, Charlie Brown said:

Hmmmmm just a thought.....

 

Oh and I make the trade for 3 1st and a 2nd right now!

[freestater]

No.

[Morrissey]

He's dumb

[Mo Lew]

Chris combs his hair so that both of his heads look the same...

never trust those guys. they’re dumb as a sac of ? 

[JustInFudge]

He literally started the conversation with, Watson is in his prime, you can have him for the next 10, 12, 15 years....and then proceeds to say, what are you going to do go 4-12 with Watson next season?  Sure.  If that's the what happens, yes, that's fine.  It's not about next year, for christ sake.  It's about having a top 3 QB for the next decade +.  No matter how good the Jets draft this season, they're still going to suck because Sam Darnold is the QB.  Why is that trivial? 

It's not about next year, it's about having Watson for a decade and building toward a contender.  Trading for him doesnt prevent you from doing that, we've been down this path.  The Jets arent an immediate fix no matter what, so why wouldnt you go secure the most important position in all of sports with a top 3 QB?    Does anyone really care if the Jets are pedestrian for a few seasons but then in 2023/24 when the roster has been built around Watson, you going to start making SB runs?  Of course we will wait, we dont have a choice with or without Watson.

[Sammybighead]

I lost all respect for him. Yeah, we shouldn’t trade for a top 5 qb, what a terrible idea....

[Sonny Werblin]

Dan Patrick said he thought even with Watson the Jets would be picking in the top 15 the next two years. Ouch!

[rangerous]

Seems like people are throwing around draft picks without much consideration for where they are.  Three first round picks may mean two this season and one next. Or they may mean one in each of the next 3 drafts.  If I were the Texans I’d want this to be front loaded so I get the higher picks early rather than spread out.  And if I’m the jets I’d deal this years two plus first rounders in the next two drafts.  We’ll see.  I’d be willing to bet Douglas is looking at these types of scenarios.

[Dinamite]

4 minutes ago, rangerous said:

Seems like people are throwing around draft picks without much consideration for where they are.  Three first round picks may mean two this season and one next. Or they may mean one in each of the next 3 drafts.  If I were the Texans I’d want this to be front loaded so I get the higher picks early rather than spread out.  And if I’m the jets I’d deal this years two plus first rounders in the next two drafts.  We’ll see.  I’d be willing to bet Douglas is looking at these types of scenarios.

Three first round picks also refers to mid round picks, not the #2 overall (which is worth at least two mid first round picks).   

People like Sims keep saying Jamal was worth 2 first rounders... And yes, that is true, but those were expected to be in the 20s and they were future first rounders (we played last season without that first rounders), not immediate.  The situation is not comparable at all and having the #2 pick is worth more than several mid first round picks.

[rangerous]

1 minute ago, Dinamite said:

Three first round picks also refers to mid round picks, not the #2 overall (which is worth at least two mid first round picks).   

People like Sims keep saying Jamal was worth 2 first rounders... And yes, that is true, but those were expected to be in the 20s and they were future first rounders (we played last season without that first rounders), not immediate.  The situation is not comparable at all and having the #2 pick is worth more than several mid first round picks.

Yep. That’s where it gets interesting. I know the whole draft chart thing is guidance but the two pick basically gives the team the pick of the litter while a 20 pick starts getting into the runts.

[The Crusher]

21 minutes ago, JiF said:

He literally started the conversation with, Watson is in his prime, you can have him for the next 10, 12, 15 years....and then proceeds to say, what are you going to do go 4-12 with Watson next season?  Sure.  If that's the what happens, yes, that's fine.  It's not about next year, for christ sake.  It's about having a top 3 QB for the next decade +.  No matter how good the Jets draft this season, they're still going to suck because Sam Darnold is the QB.  Why is that trivial? 

It's not about next year, it's about having Watson for a decade and building toward a contender.  Trading for him doesnt prevent you from doing that, we've been down this path.  The Jets arent an immediate fix no matter what, so why wouldnt you go secure the most important position in all of sports with a top 3 QB?    Does anyone really care if the Jets are pedestrian for a few seasons but then in 2023/24 when the roster has been built around Watson, you going to start making SB runs?  Of course we will wait, we dont have a choice with or without Watson.

Truth is with or without Watson its likely this team is marginally competitive next couple years. But with Watson and building around a straight up too 5 QB gives us the potential to take a monster leap once the lineup starts to improve and he will most importantly : Make the guys around him better! That’s what elite QBs do. If they have a chance to drop three 1’s and get this guy and they don’t then it’s more than likely be the same old same old with this team.
 

I’m sorry, but it might be time for Woody to step in and demand the shiney object, because this time he would be 100% correct!

[Jetster]

11 minutes ago, Sonny Werblin said:

Dan Patrick said he thought even with Watson the Jets would be picking in the top 15 the next two years. Ouch!

That's speculation & just plain BS! Our Dline alone is better than Houston! We're trading picks, we're not giving them money, which we have plenty! 

We still would have picks in every round! Maybe WITH Watson Allen Robinson says, you know what? I'm gonna go with the Jets. Watson at QB, Robinson- Crowder- Mims? Yea, pretty good! 

Joe Douglas figures out how to trade for Lattimore. Drafts an edge rusher? 

Does anyone here think Houston could go to LA & beat the Rams? Sure they overlooked the Jets but at some point they were like, holy sh*t, we're losing to the Jets. We might not have depth in 2021 but I'll guarantee you JD & Saleh will recruit some damn good starters here to fill holes, and CJ Mosely is a huge ? but he's still young enough to come back strong. 

New Coaches, Deshaun Watson, new free agents, returning injured players, another full draft, full camp, excitement, guys giving 120%, weaker schedule.  This team lacked confidence in their QB last year. Watson changes that theme pretty quickly. 

[sec101row23]

If Deshaun really wants to go to a specific team it is in his best interests to not let there be a “bidding war”.   The bidding war would only leave the team he ultimately goes to with less assets that could be used to improve his situation with the new team.   

[rayzor]

17 minutes ago, Dinamite said:

Three first round picks also refers to mid round picks, not the #2 overall (which is worth at least two mid first round picks).   

People like Sims keep saying Jamal was worth 2 first rounders... And yes, that is true, but those were expected to be in the 20s and they were future first rounders (we played last season without that first rounders), not immediate.  The situation is not comparable at all and having the #2 pick is worth more than several mid first round picks.

This is what i've been trying to say.  Our #2 is very valuable so we should only be giving up 2 1st's plus ideally.  Just moving up from 6-3 cost us 3 2's for Darnold.  Simm's isn't entirely wrong here but he should take into consideration how much cap room we have to build even if we give up part of the boatload of draft picks we own to get Watson.

[AFJF]

Random, yes...but Simms is the only former player who I watch break down the game and have a hard time believing he's a former player.  

 

[Embrace the Suck]

Tool, yeah the Jets trade for Watson and call it an offseason... They apparently don't have any other picks or cash to spend after the hypothetical trade... 

[CTM]

48 minutes ago, Charlie Brown said:

Hmmmmm just a thought.....

 

"So you could go 4-12 with Watson?" I stopped here.

Preposterous, , going from a bottom 5 player to a top 5 player at the most important position in football means more wins. Period.

You want to make the arguement that we have too many holes to give away so many pick, fine, then say 8-8 with Watson. You'd still be wrong considering Watson is only 25 but atleast you don't sound ridiculous.

[nycdan]

It's interesting.  When the Jets had the #1 pick, there was a lot of chatter about how Trevor should stay in school to avoid them.  Since JAX got the pick, not a peep.  It's all good now.

As the Watson trade rumors build, there is a lot of chatter about how the Jets shouldn't trade for him.  I've seen nothing about how MIA shouldn't and plenty about how other teams should.

Granted there are a number of talking heads who say the Jets should trade for him, but those usually say we should offer eleventy-bazillion draft picks so they're even dumber.

What I have almost never seen is a rational position on why the Jets should be interested, make a realistic offer without going overboard, and see if they can improve the team that way.  It's like that position isn't allowed to exist in the journalistic ecosystem.  

Weird.

[Dcat]

1 hour ago, Charlie Brown said:

Hmmmmm just a thought.....

 

I hate this guy.  

1.  He carps on how so many players (i.e. Ramsey) have been traded for a pair of 1st round picks so Watson will command at least three.  He forgets other top players who have been traded for peanuts, and by the same Houston front office no less: D'Andre Hopkins for a 2nd?  OK Simms... just ignore that and so many others underpriced trades that occur.   He also ignores where, within the 1st round, those picks have been.  

2.  He says that Joe Douglas will follow in Philly's footsteps and build through the "draft" rather than trade picks for an established QB, so he thinks Douglas won't give up picks to "trade" for Watson.  Ummm...  how many picks did the Eagles give up to "draft" Wentz, an unknown?  WTF?  So because the big difference is "draft vs  trade for established player" for the same boatload of picks?  Jeez he is so stupid.  A boatload picks for unproven Wentz (from meh school, no less) vs same boatload of picks for established, young top 5 QB in the league.  OK.  He thinks the Wentz scenario makes sense but not the Watson scenario?... this guy is as dumb as a rock.

@Charlie Brown  Chris Simms is a dope.  His ratio of stupid statements to reasonable ones must be at the bottom of the talking head spectrum.

[Lith]

He uses the Ramsey, Adams and Mack trades to justify that 3 firsts is the starting point.  I believe 19 was the highest pick in any of those deals.  But none of those trades involved a top 15 pick, much less the two overall.  If we begin discussions at the 2 and another #1, that is already a much better package than any of the other 3 guys returned.  Add a third #1 and that should be more than anyone else can offer in terms of quality.

[PepPep]

LOL. His arguments are nothing new and what some Jet fans have expressed on these forums ad nauseum.

1. I keep saying this. Even if the Jets give up 3 first rounders (and I think the longer Houston waits the tougher the position they are in)- the Jets are not losing all of their draft capital for the next 2-3 years. They pretty much lose Jamal Adams and a first rounder (which they probably would have spent on a QB anyway). It's realistic to think that JD can walk out of this deal with all of the Jets original draft picks before the Adams trade except the #2 pick which he would have probably used on a QB anyway. Simms ASSUMES the Jets go 4-12 with Watson b/c they will have no draft capital to fill holes on the roster, which is simply innacurate. 

2. The Jets have lots of cap space. I keep saying this as well. They are a team in a position where they can take on Watsons contract and build around him, signing players accordingly. Maybe they'll decide its not prudent to shell out for a Robinson since they are paying Watson now but they will still have money to resign Q, sign someone like Thuney, add a starting caliber FA WR and vet CB, offer Poole a deal, bring back JFM, re-sign Maye. etc. The cupboard is not completely bare because of this deal. if anything, a FQB is now in place. 

3.  Simms seems to make this assumption that all of these draft pick will develop and work out. Bottom line is that Watson is a sure this and a sure thing at the most important position and the 3 first round pick you give up for him could very well be busts, you just don't know- its a gamble. 

4. Simms brings up Tannenhill. I assume he is making a comparison with Darnold. Well. Tannenhill had to go to a different team, a different system with different circumstances and pretty much start from scratch. Tannenhill's story is great but I don't nec. WANT that story, if that makes sense. I don't want to hope Darnold turns things around so the Jets re-sign him and finally we are good enough AS A TEAM to make it to the playoffs. Tannenhill was very good but that team was built around a dominant run game and a stingy defense, not a Franchise, play-making QB. I want a FQB who can make plays an has a great team around him and I think if the Jets traded for Watson they could build that kind of team around him in the next 2-3 years.   

 

[HawkeyeJet]

Here is my take on all of these should they/shouldn't they trade for Deshaun Watson takes.

There is a prevailing (and true) sentiment in the NFL and "smart football" people(and people that want to appear smart") that draft capitol is gold and absolutely everything has to be built the draft or it's not being "built the right way".  To a large extent I agree.

However, this situation is absolutely unprecedented.  Never before has a situation like this presented itself.  This causes friction between people's own beliefs that A) Build through the draft B.) QB is by far the most important thing.

Lots of people, in my opinion, are approaching this discussion as they would if the trade target was an elite WR.  However, this is the biggest hole of all to fill.  Unless Darnold pulls a Josh Allen, you will be spending 1 of 3 those potential picks on a QB anyway.  The potential Watson trade is simply you buying the odds.  It's like a teaser in gambling.  You are investing money or resources to lower the risk of missing on a QB.

A Watson trade, assuming he's stays healthy and his level of play is fairly constant, opens a 10 year window for the Jets to be competitive.  That doesn't mean they would be every year of those 10, but could be.

If they don't trade for him and select a QB and hit, they have the same window and better resources.  But those are longer odds.  Much longer.

 

[Sperm Edwards]

13 minutes ago, Dinamite said:

Three first round picks also refers to mid round picks, not the #2 overall (which is worth at least two mid first round picks).   

People like Sims keep saying Jamal was worth 2 first rounders... And yes, that is true, but those were expected to be in the 20s and they were future first rounders (we played last season without that first rounders), not immediate.  The situation is not comparable at all and having the #2 pick is worth more than several mid first round picks.

More than several?

[joewilly12]

Who?

[FidelioJet]

He's 100% correct.

[sec101row23]

5 minutes ago, HawkeyeJet said:

Here is my take on all of these should they/shouldn't they trade for Deshaun Watson takes.

There is a prevailing (and true) sentiment in the NFL and "smart football" people(and people that want to appear smart") that draft capitol is gold and absolutely everything has to be built the draft or it's not being "built the right way".  To a large extent I agree.

However, this situation is absolutely unprecedented.  Never before has a situation like this presented itself.  This causes friction between people's own beliefs that A) Build through the draft B.) QB is by far the most important thing.

Lots of my people, in my opinion, are approaching this discussion as they would if the trade target was an elite WR.  However, this is the biggest whole of all to fill.  Unless Darnold pulls a Josh Allen, you will be spending 1 of 3 those potential picks on a QB anyway.  The potential Watson trade is simply you buying the odds.  It's like a teaser in gambling.  You are investing money or resources to lower the risk of missing on a QB.

A Watson trade, assuming he's stays healthy and his level of play is fairly constant, opens a 10 year window for the Jets to be competitive.  That doesn't mean they would be every year of those 10, but could be.

If they don't trade for him and select a QB and hit, they have the same window and better resources.  But those are longer odds.  Much longer.

 

Agreed.  For the whole “build the roster first” and roll with Sam for a year, what happens if Sam doesn’t improve?  Sure they can draft a QB in 2022, but at what cost?  What if the Jets go 6-10 and are picking 10th?  You would have to presumably trade up and get that kid.   Now what would be the cost difference between trading for Deshaun now vs. trading up for a rookie in 2022?  

[section314]

54 minutes ago, Sonny Werblin said:

Dan Patrick said he thought even with Watson the Jets would be picking in the top 15 the next two years. Ouch!

With all the draft capital we could potentially be giving up, not a really bold prediction. It might be more like 3-4 years.

[The Crusher]

11 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

More than several?

At least 7

[JustInFudge]

27 minutes ago, The Crusher said:

Truth is with or without Watson its likely this team is marginally competitive next couple years. But with Watson and building around a straight up too 5 QB gives us the potential to take a monster leap once the lineup starts to improve and he will most importantly : Make the guys around him better! That’s what elite QBs do. If they have a chance to drop three 1’s and get this guy and they don’t then it’s more than likely be the same old same old with this team.
 

I’m sorry, but it might be time for Woody to step in and demand the shiney object, because this time he would be 100% correct!

Honestly, I dont even care if it resulted in a Super Bowl.  This team is unwatchable.  Sundays suck.  I've never missed more Jets game then I did in 2020 and 2019 and even with a new exciting coach, I have zero interest in this team moving forward if Sam Darnold is the QB.  He's not exciting, he's not fun to watch, he has zero passion for the game and he's predictable awful when you need him not to be.  He's a miserable player and as a fan, I dont want to see another snap taken by Sam Darnold.  If he's our QB next year, I legit, wont watch...again.  If Watson is our QB, I will watch every single minutes of Jets Football until he retires.  That alone, is worth 10 1st round picks because straight up, this team is dangerously close to me just full on checking out altogether.  There is absolute nothing exciting about the future of this team.  You can feign interest in Saleh but come'on, he's a coach, I dont watch Sunday to see a coach on the sidelines.

 

 

[Jet_Engine1]

Can't listen to him and his speech impediment.  I know, mean, but true. 

[FidelioJet]

7 minutes ago, sec101row23 said:

Agreed.  For the whole “build the roster first” and roll with Sam for a year, what happens if Sam doesn’t improve?  Sure they can draft a QB in 2022, but at what cost?  What if the Jets go 6-10 and are picking 10th?  You would have to presumably trade up and get that kid.   Now what would be the cost difference between trading for Deshaun now vs. trading up for a rookie in 2022?  

You draft your favorite QB at 2.

Trade Sam...

And use all your other premium resources to build an offense around your young QB. 

Let the defense fend for itself the next two years as you develop your FQB.

[JustInFudge]

5 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

You draft your favorite QB at 2.

Trade Sam...

And use all your other premium resources to build an offense around your young QB. 

Let the defense fend for itself the next two years as you develop your FQB.

And when #2 inevitably busts????  just do it all over again in 2025?

Look forward to it!

[sec101row23]

6 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

You draft your favorite QB at 2.

Trade Sam...

And use all your other premium resources to build an offense around your young QB. 

Let the defense fend for itself the next two years as you develop your FQB.

What if they don’t like any of the QBs at 2?