Patriots and Thuney nowhere near a deal

[neckdemon]

2 hours ago, Sharky7337 said:

Look how bad josh allen looked without a running game. At some point the excuses have to stop.

bills have a top 10 o-line. jets were one of, if not, the worst. they were definitely worst in allowing pressure in 2.5 seconds or less. 

[neckdemon]

Just now, bitonti said:

I don't understand how all these other teams are sniffing around darnold and we are convinced he's done 

Yes jd needs to roll the dice. He does not have to do it right now 

i get it. they are hoping for instant gratification from a qb, any qb, but darnold. they aren't realizing that with the number 2 pick you need to come away with a bullseye. sewell is a likely perenial all-pro tackle. the qbs after lawrence all look like they can easily be monumental busts

[nycdan]

25 minutes ago, bitonti said:

I don't understand how all these other teams are sniffing around darnold and we are convinced he's done 

Yes jd needs to roll the dice. He does not have to do it right now 

There is a large contingent of posters here that seem to have diverged into their own branch of reality that differs from the one shared by most of the rest of the league.  In this branch, Darnold is an unsalvageable mess.  I have seen no evidence that the Jets front office agrees with this, so I generally don't pay it much mind.  Remember this isn't much different from the angry mob that wanted Quinnen Williams traded for a 3rd round pick after last season.  JN at times can be a bit of an echo chamber for notions that sometimes turn out true and other times look downright idiotic as time passes.  I have no idea which way the Darnold story is going to go, but I definitely see him as a better gamble, even now, than many of the other options being tossed around.

[kelly]

On 2/10/2021 at 2:05 AM, Rhg1084 said:

I mean this guy has to be the obvious top target in free agency, right?

..yes    ?

[GreekJet]

1 minute ago, nycdan said:

There is a large contingent of posters here that seem to have diverged into their own branch of reality that differs from the one shared by most of the rest of the league.  In this branch, Darnold is an unsalvageable mess.  I have seen no evidence that the Jets front office agrees with this, so I generally don't pay it much mind.  Remember this isn't much different from the angry mob that wanted Quinnen Williams traded for a 3rd round pick after last season.  JN at times can be a bit of an echo chamber for notions that sometimes turn out true and other times look downright idiotic as time passes.  I have no idea which way the Darnold story is going to go, but I definitely see him as a better gamble, even now, than many of the other options being tossed around.

The Jets oline was slightly below average last year. Hardly the dumpster fire that some fans made it out to be. 
 

The biggest problem on offense was the QB and OC. 

[nycdan]

1 minute ago, GreekJet said:

The Jets oline was slightly below average last year. Hardly the dumpster fire that some fans made it out to be. 
 

The biggest problem on offense was the QB and OC. 

Wait.  What OC?

[K_O_Brien]

1 hour ago, T0mShane said:

If Thuney is so good how come the Pats only went 7-9 last year 

Indeed and if Chris Godwin is so good as a receiver, why did he drop his phone during the Buccaneers Super Bowl parade? 

[addage]

LG and RG are not necessarily interchangeable parts.  Do we have a clear picture of how some of these names like Thuney or McGovern fit into those slots?  I have no idea but has to be a significant part of JD's decisions on draft and fa decisions.

[addage]

33 minutes ago, GreekJet said:

The Jets oline was slightly below average last year. Hardly the dumpster fire that some fans made it out to be. 
 

The biggest problem on offense was the QB and OC. 

I think that's true, but the OL was a study in contrasts from the start of the season to the end.  The tempo for the season was set by the early losses and in those games the OL was a problem.  With no off season or training camp--and all those new bodies--the OL needed time to gel.  Unfortunately, we were playing real games while that was happening.

[neckdemon]

40 minutes ago, GreekJet said:

The Jets oline was slightly below average last year. Hardly the dumpster fire that some fans made it out to be. 
 

The biggest problem on offense was the QB and OC. 

slightly below average? lol. it's ranked 29/32 by pff and it was dead last in qb pressure allowed under 2.5 seconds with almost 30% of total dropbacks. they were also 30/32 in yds before contact in run plays with 1.1. in other words, the jets o-line was sh*te

[FidelioJet]

The line was awful. The talent was awful, they were always going to be awful.  You can’t sign other teams back ups to start and expect them to be good   

https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-final-2020-offensive-line-rankings

29. NEW YORK JETS

The Jets, like the Dolphins, threw a lot of resources at the offensive line this offseason. That included a first-round pick spent on Louisville tackle Mekhi Becton, who impressed in his rookie season. His 74.3 PFF grade ranked 19th out of 38 qualifying left tackles despite battling injuries, and he showcased that his rare blend of size and athleticism could cause serious problems for defenders.

Overall, however, it was a disappointing season for the offensive line in New York. They allowed pressure in 2.5 seconds or less on 28% of their dropbacks — the worst rate in the NFL. The line wasn’t creating many lanes in the run game, either. The Jets averaged just 1.1 yards per carry before contact per rushing attempt in 2020 (30th). Once again, they’ll have to look to add pieces to their offensive line this offseason.

[FidelioJet]

51 minutes ago, nycdan said:

There is a large contingent of posters here that seem to have diverged into their own branch of reality that differs from the one shared by most of the rest of the league.  In this branch, Darnold is an unsalvageable mess.  I have seen no evidence that the Jets front office agrees with this, so I generally don't pay it much mind.  Remember this isn't much different from the angry mob that wanted Quinnen Williams traded for a 3rd round pick after last season.  JN at times can be a bit of an echo chamber for notions that sometimes turn out true and other times look downright idiotic as time passes.  I have no idea which way the Darnold story is going to go, but I definitely see him as a better gamble, even now, than many of the other options being tossed around.

Sam is done on the Jets. He may revitalize his career somewhere else but he’s not coming back here. 

[neckdemon]

2 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

The line was awful. The talent was awful, they were always going to be awful.  You can’t sign other teams back ups to start and expect them to be good   

https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-final-2020-offensive-line-rankings

29. NEW YORK JETS

The Jets, like the Dolphins, threw a lot of resources at the offensive line this offseason. That included a first-round pick spent on Louisville tackle Mekhi Becton, who impressed in his rookie season. His 74.3 PFF grade ranked 19th out of 38 qualifying left tackles despite battling injuries, and he showcased that his rare blend of size and athleticism could cause serious problems for defenders.

Overall, however, it was a disappointing season for the offensive line in New York. They allowed pressure in 2.5 seconds or less on 28% of their dropbacks — the worst rate in the NFL. The line wasn’t creating many lanes in the run game, either. The Jets averaged just 1.1 yards per carry before contact per rushing attempt in 2020 (30th). Once again, they’ll have to look to add pieces to their offensive line this offseason.

the thing is the only time we much luck running seemed to be behind becton. becton was a much better run blocker than pass blocker....where he allowed 7 sacks. i think you may be against sewell, but imagine drafting sewell (who allowed zero sacks in like 970 or so snaps) and moving becton to RT. sign thuney and the line could be become a top 5 unit in one year

[FidelioJet]

21 minutes ago, neckdemon said:

the thing is the only time we much luck running seemed to be behind becton. becton was a much better run blocker than pass blocker....where he allowed 7 sacks. i think you may be against sewell, but imagine drafting sewell (who allowed zero sacks in like 970 or so snaps) and moving becton to RT. sign thuney and the line could be become a top 5 unit in one year

It's not that I'm against Sewell as much as I am for a QB.  If we were keeping Sam (which we're not) I would be fully on board with taking Sewell at 2.

Now, I have no problem with taking a T at 23.  I don't' know who that would be but I'm sure they'll be a good one available there.

[BCJet]

1 hour ago, FidelioJet said:

The line was awful. The talent was awful, they were always going to be awful.  You can’t sign other teams back ups to start and expect them to be good   

https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-final-2020-offensive-line-rankings

29. NEW YORK JETS

The Jets, like the Dolphins, threw a lot of resources at the offensive line this offseason. That included a first-round pick spent on Louisville tackle Mekhi Becton, who impressed in his rookie season. His 74.3 PFF grade ranked 19th out of 38 qualifying left tackles despite battling injuries, and he showcased that his rare blend of size and athleticism could cause serious problems for defenders.

Overall, however, it was a disappointing season for the offensive line in New York. They allowed pressure in 2.5 seconds or less on 28% of their dropbacks — the worst rate in the NFL. The line wasn’t creating many lanes in the run game, either. The Jets averaged just 1.1 yards per carry before contact per rushing attempt in 2020 (30th). Once again, they’ll have to look to add pieces to their offensive line this offseason.

Couple things to take into account here.

1.  The jets had zero players on offense that a defense had to scheme to stop, zero.  Every single week, a team could line up and play whatever defense fit them best without having to account for anyone in particular.  

2.   Our offense was predictable, using no motion whatsoever, which again puts the offense and the OL in particular at a disadvantage.

3.  None of the 5 players had every played together, had no offseason and no preseason to gel.

4.  Sam's pre-snap recognition skills are below average and he rarely helped the OL at all in 2020.

Overall I think we need to replace LG and possibly RG as well.  I personally dont mind if JD wants to draft a tackle, but I think Fant was fine for what he is paid and should be as good if not better in this system.  Adding Thuney to this group and giving them an actual NFL Offensive system with another year/offseason together I think would lead to significant improvements in the overall play as a group.

[neckdemon]

1 hour ago, FidelioJet said:

It's not that I'm against Sewell as much as I am for a QB.  If we were keeping Sam (which we're not) I would be fully on board with taking Sewell at 2.

Now, I have no problem with taking a T at 23.  I don't' know who that would be but I'm sure they'll be a good one available there.

i really don't think it's definite that darnold is gone

[chad2coles]

Thuney is an obvious target.  I think Becton, McGovern, and Fant can all be starters on a good o-line if they have quality guards to play with.  Thuney is one of the best in the league and will improve the play of the guys on each side of him.  You don't need a probowler at every position, but adding Thuney would make a huge difference.

[RedBeardedSavage]

1 hour ago, FidelioJet said:

The line was awful. The talent was awful, they were always going to be awful.  You can’t sign other teams back ups to start and expect them to be good   

https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-final-2020-offensive-line-rankings

29. NEW YORK JETS

The Jets, like the Dolphins, threw a lot of resources at the offensive line this offseason. That included a first-round pick spent on Louisville tackle Mekhi Becton, who impressed in his rookie season. His 74.3 PFF grade ranked 19th out of 38 qualifying left tackles despite battling injuries, and he showcased that his rare blend of size and athleticism could cause serious problems for defenders.

Overall, however, it was a disappointing season for the offensive line in New York. They allowed pressure in 2.5 seconds or less on 28% of their dropbacks — the worst rate in the NFL. The line wasn’t creating many lanes in the run game, either. The Jets averaged just 1.1 yards per carry before contact per rushing attempt in 2020 (30th). Once again, they’ll have to look to add pieces to their offensive line this offseason.

Credit again to you last offseason sh*tting on these signings saying the bolded. 

You were right and most of us were wrong.

Respect. 

[neckdemon]

18 minutes ago, BCJet said:

Couple things to take into account here.

1.  The jets had zero players on offense that a defense had to scheme to stop, zero.  Every single week, a team could line up and play whatever defense fit them best without having to account for anyone in particular.  

2.   Our offense was predictable, using no motion whatsoever, which again puts the offense and the OL in particular at a disadvantage.

3.  None of the 5 players had every played together, had no offseason and no preseason to gel.

4.  Sam's pre-snap recognition skills are below average and he rarely helped the OL at all in 2020.

Overall I think we need to replace LG and possibly RG as well.  I personally dont mind if JD wants to draft a tackle, but I think Fant was fine for what he is paid and should be as good if not better in this system.  Adding Thuney to this group and giving them an actual NFL Offensive system with another year/offseason together I think would lead to significant improvements in the overall play as a group.

kinda funny to see excuses be made for one of, if not the worst o-line in the league. but as for darnold he is unsalvageable. points 1 and 2 are extremely detrimental to a qb's ability to do anything, even with a good o-line. then i'd argue that the pitiful state of the o-line in conjunction with your points above made it so that to darnold was in an unmanageable predicament. look at what happened to mahomes when he had stellar offensive weapons but a sh*tty o-line. 

[Jetsfan80]

6 hours ago, neckdemon said:

lol.....you'll be surprised just how much better darnold will look with a team that can run the ball at will, with a real offensive scheme and good coaching......

compare that to feeding the ball to an ancient rb behind a mediocre at best o-line with a sh*tty coach who had a sh*t offensive scheme

Nope.  The inverse is going to be the reality:  You'll be surprised how much offensive talent this team has with a real QB under center.

[neckdemon]

Just now, Jetsfan80 said:

Nope.  The inverse is going to be the reality:  You'll be surprised how much offensive talent this team has with a real QB under center.

really? what offensive talent?

jamison crowder is by far our best offensive player. after that, we have who? becton?

[Jetsfan80]

3 minutes ago, neckdemon said:

really? what offensive talent?

jamison crowder is by far our best offensive player. after that, we have who? becton?

Mims is going to be a WR1 in this league.  And both he and Perriman performed significantly better when Flacco was under center.  Yes, 35 year old, disinterested, one-foot-in-retirement Flacco.

[FidelioJet]

19 minutes ago, neckdemon said:

i really don't think it's definite that darnold is gone

It's definitely possible JD and Saleh haven't come to that conclusion yet.  My guess is they're leaning that way...

But I'm very confident that when it comes times to make a decision they're almost certain to move on from Sam and take a QB at 2 (IMO, Watson is still in play too)

I just think for them moving on from Darnold is the safer bet.

If they keep Sam and he starts slow there's going to calls for his firing - there is simply no room for error.  The pressure on Sam will be immediate and big. 

Drafting a rookie gives him a three year cushion.

I think Sam can still figure it out - but he probably needs to sit somewhere for a year and clear his head.  What the Jets did to him was disgraceful...he clearly regressed and keeping him around here (where he has NO room for error) is just a mistake that I'm sure JD has recognized or will ultimately recognize.

[Sperm Edwards]

7 hours ago, heymangold said:

the jets are taking wilson at 2.

the o-line will be:

Becton

Thuney

McGovern

Rookie

Fant

I don't have a clue what they're doing at #2 (or at QB in general) but yes I expect the OL to look something like that. Could be Thuney, could be another guard, could be a center and move McGovern to guard, etc. Might even be that the rookie projects to RT better and they move Fant to guard. 

Overall yes I'm expecting Becton + McGovern + Fant + $$ FA/veteran + rookie.

I'd like to see them upgrade from Fant, too, but he was at least so-so in pass protection and, absent the Jets unexpectedly landing two major OL FAs, my guess is he's returning. Plus the problem is about half his contract gets guaranteed before the Jets can sign anyone else. Douglas painted himself into a corner there. 

[section314]

2 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

I don't have a clue what they're doing at #2 (or at QB in general) but yes I expect the OL to look something like that. Could be Thuney, could be another guard, could be a center and move McGovern to guard, etc. Might even be that the rookie projects to RT better and they move Fant to guard. 

Overall yes I'm expecting Becton + McGovern + Fant + $$ FA/veteran + rookie.

I'd like to see them upgrade from Fant, too, but he was at least so-so in pass protection and, absent the Jets unexpectedly landing two major OL FAs, my guess is he's returning. Plus the problem is about half his contract gets guaranteed before the Jets can sign anyone else. Douglas painted himself into a corner there. 

Maybe, just maybe, JD really likes Fant and believes that he will be a big part of the OLine going forward?

[neckdemon]

10 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Mims is going to be a WR1 in this league.  And both he and Perriman performed significantly better when Flacco was under center.  Yes, 35 year old, disinterested, one-foot-in-retirement Flacco.

while i hope he does......there wasn't any evidence of him suddenly becoming amazing when flacco played. he had zero games where you can say, "wow he really made a difference there." he scored 0 touchdowns all year, never went above 100yds, never had more than 4 receptions. in other words he was not very good. granted he was a rookie in a bad situation as far as practice time due to his injury and with covid being a damper on everything, but there's no scenario here where you can say this kid would be great if darnold weren't holding him back. 

perriman, idk man. he has been with flacco twice, mayfield and jameis winston and hasn't ever done much. and in 2019 winston put up 5000 yds and 33 toucdowns. perriman had 645 yds and 6 tds. 

[FidelioJet]

59 minutes ago, BCJet said:

Couple things to take into account here.

1.  The jets had zero players on offense that a defense had to scheme to stop, zero.  Every single week, a team could line up and play whatever defense fit them best without having to account for anyone in particular.  

2.   Our offense was predictable, using no motion whatsoever, which again puts the offense and the OL in particular at a disadvantage.

3.  None of the 5 players had every played together, had no offseason and no preseason to gel.

4.  Sam's pre-snap recognition skills are below average and he rarely helped the OL at all in 2020.

Overall I think we need to replace LG and possibly RG as well.  I personally dont mind if JD wants to draft a tackle, but I think Fant was fine for what he is paid and should be as good if not better in this system.  Adding Thuney to this group and giving them an actual NFL Offensive system with another year/offseason together I think would lead to significant improvements in the overall play as a group.

I agree with everything here except Fant isn't a starting caliber T.  

[bitonti]

59 minutes ago, BCJet said:

Fant was fine for what he is paid and should be as good if not better in this system.  

Fant is a terrible run blocker, he's wildly overpaid and it's the same zone system as last year more or less. Inside vs outside zone is splitting hairs. He's a backup 

[Jetsfan80]

2 minutes ago, neckdemon said:

while i hope he does......there wasn't any evidence of him suddenly becoming amazing when flacco played. he had zero games where you can say, "wow he really made a difference there." he scored 0 touchdowns all year, never went above 100yds, never had more than 4 receptions. in other words he was not very good. granted he was a rookie in a bad situation as far as practice time due to his injury and with covid being a damper on everything, but there's no scenario here where you can say this kid would be great if darnold weren't holding him back. 

perriman, idk man. he has been with flacco twice, mayfield and jameis winston and hasn't ever done much. and in 2019 winston put up 5000 yds and 33 toucdowns. perriman had 645 yds and 6 tds. 

 

I don't see how anyone could actually watch Mims last year and decide that he isn't, at minimum, going to be a high end WR2 in the near future.  He had no offseason and Darnold barely looked his way, yet when he was targeted, he produced, and looked good doing it.

And no, Perriman isn't anything special.  He's a WR3/WR4.  But even he looked more than capable with Flacco under center.  I recall quite a few posters around here saying "I can't wait to see Darnold with these receivers!"  It didn't work out well, and it wasn't the receivers' fault.  

There should be at least one upgrade at WR coming in this offseason.  I'd be excited to see the receivers with a real QB plus the new coaching staff.  I have zero interest in seeing them play with Darnold.

[FidelioJet]

26 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Mims is going to be a WR1 in this league.  And both he and Perriman performed significantly better when Flacco was under center.  Yes, 35 year old, disinterested, one-foot-in-retirement Flacco.

Did you come to conclusion from his 28 catches or 0 TD's?

[neckdemon]

2 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

I agree with everything here except Fant isn't a starting caliber T.  

i don't understand how you can agree with the o-line being bad due to these reasons and not feel even more strongly about these reasons making darnold's job virtually impossible to succeed at

[neckdemon]

2 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

I don't see how anyone could actually watch Mims last year and decide that he isn't, at minimum, going to be a high end WR2 in the near future.  He had no offseason and Darnold barely looked his way, yet when he was targeted, he produced, and looked good doing it.

And no, Perriman isn't anything special.  He's a WR3/WR4.  But even he looked more than capable with Flacco under center.  I recall quite a few posters around here saying "I can't wait to see Darnold with these receivers!"  It didn't work out well, and it wasn't the receivers' fault.  

There should be at least one upgrade at WR coming in this offseason.  I'd be excited to see the receivers with a real QB plus the new coaching staff.  I have zero interest in seeing them play with Darnold.

i, unlike you, haven't decided anything at all yet in regards to mims. what i'm saying is there wasn't much there to say anything about him, let alone proclaiming him a definite wr1. 

just as an example, terry mclaurin (as a rookie) with a qb who is definitely not better than darnold just had 2 seasons in a row where you can say.....that kid is going to be a damn star when he gets a real qb to play with

[Jetsfan80]

4 minutes ago, neckdemon said:

i don't understand how you can agree with the o-line being bad due to these reasons and not feel even more strongly about these reasons making darnold's job virtually impossible to succeed at

Joe Flacco had a 6/3 TD:INT ratio playing behind the same same Offensive Line.

Darnold's job was difficult but not impossible.  No one expected him to play at a Pro Bowl level.  Merely not sh*tting his pants every game would have been acceptable.  He couldn't do that.  

[FidelioJet]

1 minute ago, neckdemon said:

i don't understand how you can agree with the o-line being bad due to these reasons and not feel even more strongly about these reasons making darnold's job virtually impossible to succeed at

Oh, I agree with you.  What the Jets did to him was absolutely disgraceful.  

But he clearly regressed here and, IMO needs a change a scenery

But more importantly my main contention isn't so much that Sam can't turn it around but just that there's no way JD's going to keep him.  Under the circumstance It's a large an unnecessary risk for him to take.

[neckdemon]

2 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Joe Flacco had a 6/3 TD:INT ratio playing behind the same same Offensive Line.

Darnold's job was difficult but not impossible.  No one expected him to play at a Pro Bowl level.  Merely not sh*tting his pants every game would have been acceptable.  He couldn't do that.  

joe flacco won 0 games. darnold beat 2 pretty good teams who needed to win.