Zac Wilson Vs. Trevor Lawrence

[Zach Made Me a Jets Fan]

4 hours ago, k-met57 said:

It really depends what you want to see...my friend harps on the fact that Wilson comes from money (uncle founded Jet Blue), mother seems looney, family are Trump supporters (not saying its a bad thing, but controversial), and of course was not team captain.

deleted

Edited May 20, 2021 by Zach Made Me a Jets Fan
reposted as new topic

[Jet Nut]

#5

 

 

[GangGreened]

Literally everyone had Lawrence as the consensus #1 QB in the draft (except the gospel Chris Simms) and the sky was absolutely falling when the Jets beat the rams.

But NOW Wilson will be better 

[Jet25]

Zach Wilson will be the best QB in this 2021 draft class. Screenshot this!

[jgb]

2 minutes ago, GangGreened said:

Literally everyone had Lawrence as the consensus #1 QB in the draft (except the gospel Chris Simms) and the sky was absolutely falling when the Jets beat the rams.

But NOW Wilson will be better 

Jets fans are amazing at doublethink

[More Cowbell]

7 hours ago, Biggs said:

If they were the Payton brothers Zach would be Payton.  A total football junkie who will know everything and be able to run a very complex O.  Lawrence has that dumb don't give a crap face and attitude that spells performance under pressure and mediocre in most regular season games.  He really reminds me of Eli.  

 

Eli won 2 SB's

[More Cowbell]

7 hours ago, Savage69 said:

So Trevor

Born:	October 6, 1999 (age 21) Knoxville, Tennessee
Height:	6 ft 6 in (1.98 m)
Weight:	213 lb (97 kg)

  

is more ready then Wilson

Born:	August 3, 1999 (age 21) Draper, Utah
Height:	6 ft 2 in (1.88 m)
Weight:	214 lb (97 kg)

Based on what he's taller??

 

 

 

i believe zack played 10 lbs lighter at BYU. 

[More Cowbell]

6 hours ago, munchmemory said:

Why take this so seriously?  Do you really think I want it to happen?  That it will happen?  It's just an exercise as to what might be hilarious to watch.

[clayton163v]

3 hours ago, jgb said:

Chark is a stud. Marvin Jones is a good WR2 type. Shanault -- their #3 option -- just had twice the rookie year Mims did.

Chark is a good player.  It is my hope that Davis and Mims are better players and will outperform him. 

Jones was available.  We could have had Jones.  He is on his third team.  I would MUCH rather have Davis as he can play the Z, X or Slot and Jones is limited to the X.  Davis averaged 50 catches per year over his first four years and twice had around 900 yds.  Not chopped liver when you consider his all around game and prototype size for the Z or X. 

Shenault had a better rookie year than Mims because he was healthy for most of the season.  It is my hope that Mims will stay healthy.  But Shenault is a far more limited player.  He is basically a running back playing wide receiver and is used in that fashion.  He is a poor fit for an X or a Z and is confined for the most part to the slot.   Nor does he have breakaway speed.   Mims has a great deal of upside and is a fit for the Z, X or Slot.   To be fair, Shenault proved to be an effective gadget player.  He was used in much the same way I envision the Jets using Moore with the end around, dump offs and shovel passes.   The tale of Moore's career will be whether he can play the Z as a downtown threat.  Something that Shenault can NEVER do.

While Shenault caught the most passes for Jacksonville - 58 for 600 yds.  Cole - who now plays for us - went 55 for 642 and Chark had 53 for 706.   Cole, as has been the case throughout his career, was both available and versatile.   Cole was on the field for 76% of the offensive snaps versus 68% for Chark and 56% for Shenault.  

Now that the Jets have added Davis, Cole and Moore to Mims and Crowder - I think there is little doubt that the Jets have the better wide receivers.  I think that Jacksonville made a mistake when they did not take Moore or one of the other second banana receivers. 

 

[jgb]

8 minutes ago, clayton163v said:

Chark is a good player.  It is my hope that Davis and Mims are better players and will outperform him. 

Jones was available.  We could have had Jones.  He is on his third team.  I would MUCH rather have Davis as he can play the Z, X or Slot and Jones is limited to the X.  Davis averaged 50 catches per year over his first four years and twice had around 900 yds.  Not chopped liver when you consider his all around game and prototype size for the Z or X. 

Shenault had a better rookie year than Mims because he was healthy for most of the season.  It is my hope that Mims will stay healthy.  But Shenault is a far more limited player.  He is basically a running back playing wide receiver and is used in that fashion.  He is a poor fit for an X or a Z and is confined for the most part to the slot.   Nor does he have breakaway speed.   Mims has a great deal of upside and is a fit for the Z, X or Slot.   To be fair, Shenault proved to be an effective gadget player.  He was used in much the same way I envision the Jets using Moore with the end around, dump offs and shovel passes.   The tale of Moore's career will be whether he can play the Z as a downtown threat.  Something that Shenault can NEVER do.

While Shenault caught the most passes for Jacksonville - 58 for 600 yds.  Cole - who now plays for us - went 55 for 642 and Chark had 53 for 706.   Cole, as has been the case throughout his career, was both available and versatile.   Cole was on the field for 76% of the offensive snaps versus 68% for Chark and 56% for Shenault.  

Now that the Jets have added Davis, Cole and Moore to Mims and Crowder - I think there is little doubt that the Jets have the better wide receivers.  I think that Jacksonville made a mistake when they did not take Moore or one of the other second banana receivers. 

 

I am a huge Mims truther but has done > may do, for now at least. Good post.

[JetBlue]

4 hours ago, jgb said:

Chark is a stud. Marvin Jones is a good WR2 type. Shanault -- their #3 option -- just had twice the rookie year Mims did.

Mims started the year injured and missed about 6 games or so, if I recall and when he did play, Gase played defense better than the other teams DC, keeping the ball out of his hands.  I will take my chances with Corey Davis, Mims, Cole, Crowder and Moore.   

[Jet_Engine1]

9 hours ago, HawkeyeJet said:

Not trying to be argumentative, but what about Lawrence's body screams NFL ready?  He is incredibly thin and lanky, recent shoulder surgery etc.

This was one thing in tbe draft buildup that I scratched my head about with Lawrence.  He does not have the build to stand up to NFL beatings any more than Wilson does, but part of his prestige is his ability to run.  Just doesn't add up to me.

Wilson, 6'2.5  216lbs

 

 

Lawrence: 6'6 220

 

? 

[ZachEY]

5 hours ago, Jet Nut said:

I dont remember the hardens for the thought that Darnold was living with McCown.  

If Wilson fails 3 years down the road, who cares what the narrative about his uncle or whatever people choose to blame for his failure?  Has nothing to do with Wilson  vs Lawrence today

And still Zach was a team captain.

He was not voted Captain by the team at the beginning of the year.  Rather than taking that at face value, I figured I'd see if there was more to it.  My thought was, hey, maybe all the captains were seniors.

30 seconds of research revealed that this was not true, but seniority likely played a big role.  Zach had been on the roster from 2018 to present.

All four offensive captains were on the roster from 2017 to present.  On defense, one was 2017, two were 2016, and one was 2015.

Maybe time to put the captain narrative to bed.  Feel free to share with your favorite beat writer's twitter account.  Seems like they were too lazy to do what took me 30 seconds.

[Jet Nut]

4 minutes ago, TeddEY said:

He was not voted Captain by the team at the beginning of the year.  Rather than taking that at face value, I figured I'd see if there was more to it.  My thought was, hey, maybe all the captains were seniors.

30 seconds of research revealed that this was not true, but seniority likely played a big role.  Zach had been on the roster from 2018 to present.

All four offensive captains were on the roster from 2017 to present.  On defense, one was 2017, two were 2016, and one was 2015.

Maybe time to put the captain narrative to bed.  Feel free to share with your favorite beat writer's twitter account.  Seems like they were too lazy to do what took me 30 seconds.

Thanks much, I knew it had something to do with him not needing to be voted to captain and then the Ciminis of the world to point to it as a red flag that he wasnt.  

[jgb]

1 hour ago, JetBlue said:

Mims started the year injured and missed about 6 games or so, if I recall and when he did play, Gase played defense better than the other teams DC, keeping the ball out of his hands.  I will take my chances with Corey Davis, Mims, Cole, Crowder and Moore.   

We don't have a choice but I'm sure JD is happy to hear that!

[Jet2020]

10 hours ago, Wit said:

Jets will have a better record, but Lawrence will have a better season. He’s more polished and his body is more nfl ready at this point. 

Josh Rosen was the most NFL ready QB in 2018. I know what to think of such statements. Grain of salt. 

[The Crusher]

8 hours ago, TeddEY said:

Well, whenever I see Lawrence, my body is ready.  Does that clear things up?

If I remember you two are pretty close in height. 

[ZachEY]

22 minutes ago, The Crusher said:

If I remember you two are pretty close in height. 

[Jet Nut]

5 hours ago, GangGreened said:

Literally everyone had Lawrence as the consensus #1 QB in the draft (except the gospel Chris Simms) and the sky was absolutely falling when the Jets beat the rams.

But NOW Wilson will be better 

The complaints of the guy we got isnt any different than the handful who questioned how good Lawrence was before we lost out on him.  

Plenty did

[Jet_Engine1]

3 hours ago, TeddEY said:

He was not voted Captain by the team at the beginning of the year.  Rather than taking that at face value, I figured I'd see if there was more to it.  My thought was, hey, maybe all the captains were seniors.

30 seconds of research revealed that this was not true, but seniority likely played a big role.  Zach had been on the roster from 2018 to present.

All four offensive captains were on the roster from 2017 to present.  On defense, one was 2017, two were 2016, and one was 2015.

Maybe time to put the captain narrative to bed.  Feel free to share with your favorite beat writer's twitter account.  Seems like they were too lazy to do what took me 30 seconds.

All the original Captains for BYU were older guys who had done an overseas Mission for the LDS Church. Its a big deal. 

Wilson was voted the C later. 

 

[jgb]

6 hours ago, Jet_Engine1 said:

All the original Captains for BYU were older guys who had done an overseas Mission for the LDS Church. Its a big deal. 

Wilson was voted the C later. 

 

This is a good point. BYU is a different situation than other schools. I'm not reading too much into it.

[Jet Nut]

13 hours ago, jgb said:

Jets fans are amazing at doublethink

Its just Jets fans?

 

[jgb]

10 hours ago, Jet2020 said:

Josh Rosen was the most NFL ready QB in 2018. I know what to think of such statements. Grain of salt. 

Rosen was also one of the most unready from a mental/attitude perspective of any top prospect in a long time. My comp was Geno Smith in this area. IIRC both of their scouting reports contained a near-identical line. "Thinks he has already arrived."

Geno slipped to the 2nd round largely due to this reason. Rosen should have as well. I'll refrain from sharing my view why Rosen seemingly got a pass while Geno did not.

[Biggs]

13 hours ago, More Cowbell said:

Eli won 2 SB's

I'd still rather have Peyton or Marino who won no Superbowls. 

[jgb]

6 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Its just Jets fans?

 

Probably true of other fans, but I only have a large enough sample size to make such a statement about Jets Fans. 

I know a fair amount of CLE fans and they're generally a pessimistic bunch but I have to say they were pretty jazzed up going into 2019 and we know how that ended.

[Jet Nut]

2 minutes ago, jgb said:

Probably true of other fans, but I only have a large enough sample size to make such a statement about Jets Fans. 

I know a fair amount of CLE fans and they're generally a pessimistic bunch but I have to say they were pretty jazzed up going into 2019 and we know how that ended.

Dont have to look far, Giants, Devils, Rangers, Islanders, Knicks, Nets, Mets & Yankee fans are guilty.  Down here in Florida, no fan base is comparable.

[Biggs]

13 hours ago, GangGreened said:

Literally everyone had Lawrence as the consensus #1 QB in the draft (except the gospel Chris Simms) and the sky was absolutely falling when the Jets beat the rams.

But NOW Wilson will be better 

When we actually beat the Rams and were out of the No. 1 spot everyone thought that Fields was the consensus No. 2 QB in the draft.  The sky was failing.  

[jgb]

10 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Dont have to look far, Giants, Devils, Rangers, Islanders, Knicks, Nets, Mets & Yankee fans are guilty.  Down here in Florida, no fan base is comparable.

Totally anecdotal but funny nonetheless. In Week 3, 2005, I went to the Jets at Ravens game.  Brooks Bollinger was our QB. We lost 13-3.

After the game I was in a convenience store getting a soda. Some Ravens fans were doom and glooming about their team. I asked, "what are you upset about? You won!"

Their response, "Yeah, but who did we beat?"

Ravens finished 6-10 that year.

[GreenReaper]

Pundits...fans...the media...assumed since both Trevor Lawrence and Justin Fields garnered the most media attention in high school.  Then went to powerhouse football Colleges and put up impressive stats.  That meant they will be drafted 1-2.  Be the two most talked about...and expected to succeed in NFL...among rookie QBs of that class.  But one of the most important attributes for QB success...that can separate one prospect from another...is their above the neck abilities.   To successfully make good pre-snap and post-snap reads.  And those abilities may come later for some young players that were less recruited.  Based on their peculiar personality and work ethic traits.  And fortunate enough to have the right coaches to help that development process along.

Now in the NFL...their above the neck acumen is one of the most important reasons for the GOAT like success of a Tom Brady and Peyton Manning.  They stand in the pocket...quickly find the open receiver...and quick release accurate passes for completions.  They throw receivers open because they see things developing right away.  Neither have mobility or a cannon for an arm.  But you give them decent weapons and adequate protection and they will kill you. They will make good receivers and OL into better looking ones.  Because of how fast they can process and release the ball accurately. 

Add to these abilities at the QB position...good speed-athleticism.  Then you have someone special.  That's what GM HCs are looking for.  The special ones that can beat a defense with both their heads and their legs.  If you have a QB that has to compensate for average process abilities by winning with their legs.  Then they're more vulnerable in the playoffs to good defenses.  Those defenses will game plan to force a good running QB to stay in the pocket.  Challenging them to beat their D with their head and arm.   

Which one or two among these top 5 QBs...will stand out among this 2021 class?  Will guide their team to some trips to the Supe...and a shot at the Lombardi Trophy?   A huge part of this happening has a lot to do with having quality performers at GM and HC-CS.  Good drafting and coaching of the 53 man roster is a given.  And that includes coaching the QB position.  

IMO Zack Wilson is that one or two among this class...that will stand out enough to lead Jets to the Supe.  He's a decent athlete at the QB position.   Possesses a strong accurate arm with a quick compact release.  He's an addictive film junkie with an obsessive devotion to football.  Wears a chip on his wristband that says "prove them wrong".  All this came to the forefront his last season.  Playing instinctive street like football.  Making uncanny accurate off platform throws all over the field.  

I truly believe that Zack Wilson has the right GM-HC-CS.  To provide him with protection and weapons.  To coach and game plan him to have that high level of success.  And hoist the Lombardi Trophy.

Yep...ZW...he's my QB. 

[jgb]

2 minutes ago, GreenReaper said:

Pundits...fans...the media...assumed since both Trevor Lawrence and Justin Fields garnered the most media attention in high school.  Then went to powerhouse football Colleges and put up impressive stats.  That meant they will be drafted 1-2.  Be the two most talked about...and expected to succeed in NFL...among rookie QBs of that class.  But one of the most important attributes for QB success...that can separate one prospect from another...is their above the neck abilities.   To successfully make good pre-snap and post-snap reads.  And those abilities may come later for some young players that were less recruited.  Based on their peculiar personality and work ethic traits.  And fortunate enough to have the right coaches to help that development process along.

Now in the NFL...their above the neck acumen is one of the most important reasons for the GOAT like success of a Tom Brady and Peyton Manning.  They stand in the pocket...quickly find the open receiver...and quick release accurate passes for completions.  They throw receivers open because they see things developing right away.  Neither have mobility or a cannon for an arm.  But you give them decent weapons and adequate protection and they will kill you. They will make good receivers and OL into better looking ones.  Because of how fast they can process and release the ball accurately. 

Add to these abilities at the QB position...good speed-athleticism.  Then you have someone special.  That's what GM HCs are looking for.  The special ones that can beat a defense with both their heads and their legs.  If you have a QB that has to compensate for average process abilities by winning with their legs.  Then they're more vulnerable in the playoffs to good defenses.  Those defenses will game plan to force a good running QB to stay in the pocket.  Challenging them to beat their D with their head and arm.   

Which one or two among these top 5 QBs...will stand out among this 2021 class?  Will guide their team to some trips to the Supe...and a shot at the Lombardi Trophy?   A huge part of this happening has a lot to do with having quality performers at GM and HC-CS.  Good drafting and coaching of the 53 man roster is a given.  And that includes coaching the QB position.  

IMO Zack Wilson is that one or two among this class...that will stand out enough to lead Jets to the Supe.  He's a decent athlete at the QB position.   Possesses a strong accurate arm with a quick compact release.  He's an addictive film junkie with an obsessive devotion to football.  Wears a chip on his wristband that says "prove them wrong".  All this came to the forefront his last season.  Playing instinctive street like football.  Making uncanny accurate off platform throws all over the field.  

I truly believe that Zack Wilson has the right GM-HC-CS.  To provide him with protection and weapons.  To coach and game plan him to have that high level of success.  And hoist the Lombardi Trophy.

Yep...ZW...he's my QB. 

[Biggs]

10 hours ago, Jet2020 said:

Josh Rosen was the most NFL ready QB in 2018. I know what to think of such statements. Grain of salt. 

He probably was the most mechanically sound of the guys coming out that year.   He was the 4th guy off the board for a reason.  Personally I don't think he sucked more than Sam and he was certainly in a worse situation.   Obviously not as nice a kid.

[More Cowbell]

33 minutes ago, Biggs said:

I'd still rather have Peyton or Marino who won no Superbowls. 

Eli had some really solid years. He wasn't  flashy like Peyton or Dan but he was totally  a solid QB. 

[Biggs]

Just now, More Cowbell said:

Eli had some really solid years. He wasn't  flashy like Peyton or Dan but he was totally  a solid QB. 

Flashy LOL.   I really like Eli, borderline HOF QB.  Shouldn't be mentioned among the greats like Marino and Peyton.  

[More Cowbell]

3 minutes ago, Biggs said:

Flashy LOL.   I really like Eli, borderline HOF QB.  Shouldn't be mentioned among the greats like Marino and Peyton.  

Eli will definitely go to the HOF. Winning 2 SB as a QB is a legit HOF achievement 

[Biggs]

Just now, More Cowbell said:

Eli will definitely go to the HOF. Winning 2 SB as a QB is a legit HOF achievement 

I guess Edelman is a slam dunk.