Vote for Zach Wilson for Rookie of the Week

[JustInFudge]

2 minutes ago, Action Zachtion said:

This turned up in a Google search lol 

 

Just now, Zachtomims47 said:

Yeah see I’m not too far off. I think Russell should be higher though. He flicks it and it goes 80 yards on a dime. 

It Madden rankings. lol

Funny that Watson is on there, he had the infamous "slow mph" at the "combine". 

 

[Integrity28]

1 hour ago, Turd Ferguson said:

Yeah, okay. You ?

You have me confused with @The Crusher.

[steJMike]

16 minutes ago, JiFapono said:

Right, on the play being discussed he fully stepped into but anywho give me both...where is Zach in pure arm and angles?

I don't want to answer that question just yet only because I might sell ZW short. 

[JustInFudge]

9 minutes ago, Zachtomims47 said:

I’d say right below Herbert and Rodgers. And those 2 are below Mahommes, Stafford, Allen, Russell. 

From what I’ve seen thus far. 

Not bad.  I'd probably agree.  Jackson, Mayfield, Murray, Winston would be my next level.  Tannehill has a sneaky big arm too.  I honestly dont see much of a difference between all the rookies except Jones and Mills.  You're splitting hairs, IMO, between Lawrence, Wilson, Lance, Fields  - all about the same.  Though I do think Zach has a little more flick than those dudes. 

 

[The Crusher]

22 minutes ago, Integrity28 said:

You have me confused with @The Crusher.

Honestly my first thought when I saw that. 

[jvill 51]

So! Because I’m stuck home and isolated with covid I figured I would look into this conundrum. The air yards on the TD pass was 57. 10 QBs last year had a completion longer (the max was either 60 or 61 I forgot and I’m not going back to look). 10 other teams had a QB (so including teams that started multiple QBs) who didn’t complete a pass that traveled 50 or more yards. I’m well aware that this probably proves nothing but figured I’d provide more fodder to the argument because I’m bored.

[Integrity28]

Here’s the thing…

“All Mac Jones does is dink and dunk and take what defenses give him - he sucks!!!”

”Zach can throw it 60-yards!!! He just needs to get better at the easy passes!!! He’s awesome!!!”

How do you guys not see it?

[FidelioJet]

23 minutes ago, Integrity28 said:

Here’s the thing…

“All Mac Jones does is dink and dunk and take what defenses give him - he sucks!!!”

”Zach can throw it 60-yards!!! He just needs to get better at the easy passes!!! He’s awesome!!!”

How do you guys not see it?

Or....

"All Zach Wilson can do is make off-platform throws and plays hero ball, he'll never good"

"Mac Jones is awesome, he read's defenses great and is on his way to being the next Tom Brady, if the draft was held today Mac Jones would be the #1 pick."

How do you not see it?

The thing is this is a Jets Forum and you're going to find Jet fans that are excited about their QB's future.  The reality is both QB's are 1-3....neither has proven anything.

 

[Action Zachtion]

57 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

Or....

"All Zach Wilson can do is make off-platform throws and plays hero ball, he'll never good"

"Mac Jones is awesome, he read's defenses great and is on his way to being the next Tom Brady, if the draft was held today Mac Jones would be the #1 pick."

How do you not see it?

The thing is this is a Jets Forum and you're going to find Jet fans that are excited about their QB's future.  The reality is both QB's are 1-3....neither has proven anything.

 

And you don't know until a year after you know.  

You know? 

But I feel like I know. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Because people are dumb like that.  

[SAR I]

So when do they announce the winner?  I couldn't sleep a wink last night.

SAR I

[UntouchableCrew]

15 hours ago, JiFapono said:

You're splitting hairs, IMO, between Lawrence, Wilson, Lance, Fields  - all about the same.  Though I do think Zach has a little more flick than those dudes. 

 

I definitely wouldn't say Wilson has a "stronger arm" than Lawrence, Lance, or Fields as all of them have strong arms. But as you alluded to, I do think he has the quickest release. Ball just explodes out of his hand, especially on short stuff relative to the other guys.

[UntouchableCrew]

2 hours ago, Integrity28 said:

Here’s the thing…

“All Mac Jones does is dink and dunk and take what defenses give him - he sucks!!!”

”Zach can throw it 60-yards!!! He just needs to get better at the easy passes!!! He’s awesome!!!”

How do you guys not see it?

Well I think the idea is that Jones is clearly the most polished but doesn't have nearly as much room to improve. He's closer to a finished product now that any of the other rookie QBs.

I've seen enough pop from Lawrence, Wilson, Lance and Fields that I'd rather gamble on any of them at this stage than Jones. They can all physically do things Jones can't. Jones can play but I suspect he'll never be more than a glorified game manager.

That works perfectly when you're on Alabama and every skill player on your offense is a first round pick, half your lineman will be drafted, and everyone you face is hopelessly outmatched. When you're on a team like the Pats that has poor skill players and a total inability to create explosive plays the ceiling is pretty low.

[sec101row23]

So who won?  

[Pac]

17 minutes ago, sec101row23 said:

So who won?  

Dee Milliner.

[Snell41]

If starting a debate about Wilson begins with anyone saying that 60 yard throw was some sort of unicorn throw that other NFL QB’s can’t make then it’s clear that the debate would be fruitless. That throw was nice, awesome it was a TD. It’s also a throw that just about every NFL level QB can make, even some really bad ones. That’s a simple fact.


Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

[Action Zachtion]

People were smashing the vote button lol 

[Barry McCockinner]

9 minutes ago, Action Zachtion said:

People were smashing the vote button lol 

Hell yea

[Integrity28]

4 hours ago, UntouchableCrew said:

Well I think the idea is that Jones is clearly the most polished but doesn't have nearly as much room to improve. He's closer to a finished product now that any of the other rookie QBs.

I've seen enough pop from Lawrence, Wilson, Lance and Fields that I'd rather gamble on any of them at this stage than Jones. They can all physically do things Jones can't. Jones can play but I suspect he'll never be more than a glorified game manager.

That works perfectly when you're on Alabama and every skill player on your offense is a first round pick, half your lineman will be drafted, and everyone you face is hopelessly outmatched. When you're on a team like the Pats that has poor skill players and a total inability to create explosive plays the ceiling is pretty low.

Hahaha… Tom Brady has literally the same game manager physical profile.

The only thing that separates guys at this level is between the ears. Not “pop” or “zip” or any of that other absurd crap.

Right now, Mac Jones is being coached along a path that will give him an advantage between the ears. None of the other rookie QBs are.

You all point his short passes. He is being taught to take what defenses give him. Zach isn’t.

 

[Integrity28]

6 hours ago, FidelioJet said:

Or....

"All Zach Wilson can do is make off-platform throws and plays hero ball, he'll never good"

"Mac Jones is awesome, he read's defenses great and is on his way to being the next Tom Brady, if the draft was held today Mac Jones would be the #1 pick."

How do you not see it?

The thing is this is a Jets Forum and you're going to find Jet fans that are excited about their QB's future.  The reality is both QB's are 1-3....neither has proven anything.

 

The fact you think this makes a point.

[UntouchableCrew]

6 minutes ago, Integrity28 said:

Hahaha… Tom Brady has literally the same game manager physical profile.

No, that's actually not true. Brady was bigger and had more arm talent coming out.

6 minutes ago, Integrity28 said:

The only thing that separates guys at this level is between the ears. Not “pop” or “zip” or any of that other absurd crap.

I'm going to go ahead and say this is completely untrue. Josh Allen, Kyler Murray, Patrick Mahomes and Lamar Jackson aren't doing what they're doing because of what's between their ears.

6 minutes ago, Integrity28 said:

Right now, Mac Jones is being coached along a path that will give him an advantage between the ears. None of the other rookie QBs are.

If you say so. There's no evidence McDaniels or Belichick have a penchant for developing QBs. Brady is their entire resume and McDaniels was a complete failure with his hand picked QB -- Tim Tebow.

6 minutes ago, Integrity28 said:

You all point his short passes. He is being taught to take what defenses give him. Zach isn’t.

 

Absolutely true he's done the best job of taking what the defense gives him. There's just a hard ceiling on what that approach can do for you.

If you'd take Mac as the best QB from this class in five years, I'd take the other side of that bet for sure.

[Integrity28]

18 minutes ago, UntouchableCrew said:

No, that's actually not true. Brady was bigger and had more arm talent coming out.

I'm going to go ahead and say this is completely untrue. Josh Allen, Kyler Murray, Patrick Mahomes and Lamar Jackson aren't doing what they're doing because of what's between their ears.

If you say so. There's no evidence McDaniels or Belichick have a penchant for developing QBs. Brady is their entire resume and McDaniels was a complete failure with his hand picked QB -- Tim Tebow.

Absolutely true he's done the best job of taking what the defense gives him. There's just a hard ceiling on what that approach can do for you.

If you'd take Mac as the best QB from this class in five years, I'd take the other side of that bet for sure.

If Brady was better coming out, it makes total sense he’d be a 6th rounder.?

Anyone that watches this sport knows the athletes are a hair apart in terms of ability, and almost everyone that makes it does because of their processor. Between the ears. Congrats on making an argument around the exceptions. ?

If Zach doesn’t stop throwing picks and moon shots, he won’t be playing in 5 years. ?

[UntouchableCrew]

16 hours ago, Integrity28 said:

If Brady was better coming out, it makes total sense he’d be a 6th rounder.?

Ironic you bring up "exceptions" in your next paragraph considering Tom Brady is the biggest outlier in the history of professional sports. He's literally doing things (now) that have never been done in history. You also realize you're talking about drafts two decades apart right? The NFL in 2000 and 2021 couldn't look less alike.

16 hours ago, Integrity28 said:

Anyone that watches this sport knows the athletes are a hair apart in terms of ability, and almost everyone that makes it does because of their processor. Between the ears. Congrats on making an argument around the exceptions. ?

How are Josh Allen, Kyler Murray, Patrick Mahomes and Lamar Jackson "exceptions?" Those guys literally represent the best young QBs in the game from the 2017-2019 draft classes.

Anyone who watches this sport knows that as more spread concepts with simpler reads are adapted from the college game (which most of these guys have been playing a variation of since high school) the mental aspect of the transition is easier than ever and more physically gifted guys are excelling.

Talk about Brady or Brees all you want, the best QBs in the game under 30 are all uniquely physically gifted.

That's not to say that I disagree with the point that mental processing, vision, and other intangible traits make or break you at this level -- just that it's absurd to act like Mac Jones is actually more likely to succeed in the modern NFL than the rest of the 2021 rookies.

16 hours ago, Integrity28 said:

If Zach doesn’t stop throwing picks and moon shots, he won’t be playing in 5 years. ?

Obviously Zach has a long way to go from a development standpoint. But I genuinely think you're crazy if you'd rather have Mac Jones than any of the other 2021 rookie QBs.

[FidelioJet]

17 hours ago, Integrity28 said:

Hahaha… Tom Brady has literally the same game manager physical profile.

The only thing that separates guys at this level is between the ears. Not “pop” or “zip” or any of that other absurd crap.

Right now, Mac Jones is being coached along a path that will give him an advantage between the ears. None of the other rookie QBs are.

You all point his short passes. He is being taught to take what defenses give him. Zach isn’t.

 

Trying to compare Mac Jones to Tom Brady is comical.  It really is.

Your thought process seems to be - because the best QB of all times played for this franchise then because the guy replacing him isn't particularly athletic, doesn't have a strong arm but can complete short passes - he should be expected to excel.

Tom Brady is the exception, not the rule.  The vast majority of the better QB's in the NFL are the ones that push the ball downfield.  The odds are not in Mac's favor. 

Let's be clear about what Mac has done, he's 1-3 and was asked, in one game, to put up points - and in that game he threw 3 int's and looked every bit as bad as Zach has on his worst day.  If you only take what the defense gives you and loses, then what's the point?  

Regardless of the media hype of all things Patriots and a few anti-zaxers around here - the reality is Mac Jones has not been good, he's 1-3 put up 16, 13 and 17 points in the losses. 

[The Crusher]

On 10/6/2021 at 6:31 PM, JiFapono said:

 

It Madden rankings. lol

Funny that Watson is on there, he had the infamous "slow mph" at the "combine". 

 

Man you took a lot of heat on him and you were 100% right on him. 

[The Crusher]

19 hours ago, Integrity28 said:

Hahaha… Tom Brady has literally the same game manager physical profile.

The only thing that separates guys at this level is between the ears. Not “pop” or “zip” or any of that other absurd crap.

Right now, Mac Jones is being coached along a path that will give him an advantage between the ears. None of the other rookie QBs are.

You all point his short passes. He is being taught to take what defenses give him. Zach isn’t.

 

All true but Brady has that insane weird creepy chip on his shoulder thing coming out of college. He’s literally turned into a longevity NFL QB zombie by letting Guerrero Frankenstein his DNA. Mac Jones doesn’t seem the type, he came out of college like…

 

To me, that’s the reason Jones likely becomes Alex Smith and not Tom Brady  by a long shot. That being said, Belicheck if he hangs on another 3-5 years could certainly  win with that. I don’t think Mac Jones needs to become Tom Brady to win in New England. 

[Integrity28]

1 hour ago, FidelioJet said:

Trying to compare Mac Jones to Tom Brady is comical.  It really is.

Your thought process seems to be - because the best QB of all times played for this franchise then because the guy replacing him isn't particularly athletic, doesn't have a strong arm but can complete short passes - he should be expected to excel.

Tom Brady is the exception, not the rule.  The vast majority of the better QB's in the NFL are the ones that push the ball downfield.  The odds are not in Mac's favor. 

Let's be clear about what Mac has done, he's 1-3 and was asked, in one game, to put up points - and in that game he threw 3 int's and looked every bit as bad as Zach has on his worst day.  If you only take what the defense gives you and loses, then what's the point?  

Regardless of the media hype of all things Patriots and a few anti-zaxers around here - the reality is Mac Jones has not been good, he's 1-3 put up 16, 13 and 17 points in the losses. 

No, Fido. This is a grossly unimaginative debate tact.

The NFL has revolved around pocket passers for decades. Tom Brady is the easiest example to point to when making the argument that most of these guys are athletically equal and what elevates them is between their ears.

Hackenberg had the same makeup. He failed not because of physical ability, but because if his “processor”. 

Only a small handful of athletic anomalies have been good in recent years. Historically they are not, the best examples to point to are Vick, Tebow, Jake Plummer, and Randall Cunningham off the top of my head. They are athletically apart from most pocket passers, and it helped them - but, the real difference makers in this league are the QBs with the brains for it. Not off-platform throws.

Keep going if you want, just know… You're denying historical evidence.

 

[Integrity28]

58 minutes ago, The Crusher said:

All true but Brady has that insane weird creepy chip on his shoulder thing coming out of college. He’s literally turned into a longevity NFL QB zombie by letting Guerrero Frankenstein his DNA. Mac Jones doesn’t seem the type, he came out of college like…

 

To me, that’s the reason Jones likely becomes Alex Smith and not Tom Brady  by a long shot. That being said, Belicheck if he hangs on another 3-5 years could certainly  win with that. I don’t think Mac Jones needs to become Tom Brady to win in New England. 

I’m not talking about who he becomes, I’m talking about the development of young quarterbacks and why it’s important to coach them in a way where they develop a fast processor.

That isn’t happening with Zakapony, but it is happening with Mac Jones.

people saying that I am “comparing“ Mac Jones to Tom Brady are being blockheads.

[Integrity28]

1 hour ago, The Crusher said:

Man you took a lot of heat on him and you were 100% right on him. 

Ahem.

[Integrity28]

1 hour ago, UntouchableCrew said:

How are Josh Allen, Kyler Murray, Patrick Mahomes and Lamar Jackson "exceptions?" Those guys literally represent the best young QBs in the game from the 2017-2019 draft classes.

The league isn’t five years old.

And by definition any list of the “best of” = exceptions. Duh.

[The Crusher]

2 minutes ago, Integrity28 said:

Ahem.

I just remember  JiF because the two of us were naked at the time. 

[Integrity28]

1 hour ago, UntouchableCrew said:

That's not to say that I disagree with the point that mental processing, vision, and other intangible traits make or break you at this level -- just that it's absurd to act like Mac Jones is actually more likely to succeed in the modern NFL than the rest of the 2021 rookies.

I didn’t say this.

I said Mac Jones is being developed in a way where taking what the defense gives him is going to be hardwired. Zach isn’t. Zach should be. We’ve all said so.

A few of you have simply ignored my actual point and created a parallel argument that I’m now using to make you look silly.

[Integrity28]

1 minute ago, The Crusher said:

I just remember  JiF because the two of us were naked at the time. 

I was filming. I know.

[The Crusher]

4 minutes ago, Integrity28 said:

I’m not talking about who he becomes, I’m talking about the development of young quarterbacks and why it’s important to coach them in a way where they develop a fast processor.

That isn’t happening with Zakapony, but it is happening with Mac Jones.

people saying that I am “comparing“ Mac Jones to Tom Brady are being blockheads.

That’s fair. I only skim posts like I’m playing mafia on my phone driving 50 mph. By the way.. anyone see @HessStation?

[The Crusher]

Just now, Integrity28 said:

I was filming. I know.

LOL, well played Sir Ape well played. 

[FidelioJet]

41 minutes ago, Integrity28 said:

No, Fido. This is a grossly unimaginative debate tact.

The NFL has revolved around pocket passers for decades. Tom Brady is the easiest example to point to when making the argument that most of these guys are athletically equal and what elevates them is between their ears.

Hackenberg had the same makeup. He failed not because of physical ability, but because if his “processor”. 

Only a small handful of athletic anomalies have been good in recent years. Historically they are not, the best examples to point to are Vick, Tebow, Jake Plummer, and Randall Cunningham off the top of my head. They are athletically apart from most pocket passers, and it helped them - but, the real difference makers in this league are the QBs with the brains for it. Not off-platform throws.

Keep going if you want, just know… You're denying historical evidence.

 

Integ, you can be as imaginative as you want.  I'll stick to reality.

The league has changed.  You can point to the past all you want but the league is different.  All those guys you're referncing were from a different era.  

Russel Wilson, Kyle Murray, Pat Mahomes, Lamar Jackson, DeShaun Watson etc...all of the best QB's in today's game would almost certainly already be seriously injured if they were playing 15 years ago.  So, un-athletic pocket passers would be what's left - hence their success.  These guys aren't getting hit anymore - between the rule changes and finally learning to slide -  they're staying on the field and dominating the league.  Just look at the top passers in todays game i.e. the ones I've listed above.  

The league has always morphed and yes, an un-athletic, weak armed pocket passer have been the successful QB in the past - and can surely still be successful but at this point it's the exception and not the rule.

Look, no ones arguing that you don't have to be able to pass from the pocket, no ones arguing that you need to be able to make on-scheduled plays - I couldn't agree more - that should be the crux of every QB's game.  

My only argument is two fold:

1) Mac Jones has shown me nothing to tell me he has been or will be a quality NFL QB.  You have to be able to do more than what he's done if he wants to win.  And the one time he was asked to do more he failed miserably.

2) Zach Wilson, while he has succeeded on the off-platform, has also shown plenty from the pocket.  This idea that he's only been successful when he's flushed out of the pocket is just a false narrative being pushed on this site (not saying you're pushing it, but it has been pushed)  It's simply not true, and once again, isn't disputable if you look at the facts and watch the film.  Reality, ZW has a 70% completion % if you take away the drops.  

Can he get better. absolutely.  Does he NEED to get better, absolutely. 

When all's said and done, If I had to make an assessment of these two QB's based on the first four weeks. Zach Wilson, to me, has shown himself to have superior potential and a far better opportunity to be a top QB in the NFL.  And, for me, it's not even close.