Will they give the OROY award to Belichick?

[PFSIKH]

25 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

Obviously Mac Jones is ballin, but before we get him fitted for his gold jacket, I would just remind everyone that RJ III and Saquon Barkley (who just edged out mayfield) were rookies of the year and Sheldon Richardson was the defensive rookie of the year. 

My point being, it can be just as foolish to crown someone after initial success as it can be to give up on someone prematurely. We live in this bizarre world of immediate gratification in which we don’t like to wait to assess anything.

It’s ok to maintain a healthy skepticism of anyone 10 games into an NFL career. Ten starts into Chad Pennington’s career, people were comparing him to Montana.  

This.  We do not know what Mac's career path will take.  Maybe, he will be great or maybe, as some have pointed out, his floor is Chad.  That is not bad, but it is not a Gold Jacket.  He has looked good....through 10 games.  

[greenwichjetfan]

56 minutes ago, PFSIKH said:

As they should, he is a system QB.  

Yet another similarity with Tom Brady!

[PFSIKH]

Just now, greenwichjetfan said:

Yet another similarity with Tom Brady!

[TheNuuFaaolaExperience]

Belichick and McDaniel set Mac Jones up for success. The kid has talent, but he would have looked worse than Zach Wilson if he was on this team. Zach Wilson on the Patriots would be on his way to Canton. When it comes to rookie QB's, coaching matters. Mac Jones stepped into a situation with a guy who has been coaching for as long as Saleh has been alive. Belichick has seen a thing or two in his day. 

[sec101row23]

2 minutes ago, TheNuuFaaolaExperience said:

Belichick and McDaniel set Mac Jones up for success. The kid has talent, but he would have looked worse than Zach Wilson if he was on this team. Zach Wilson on the Patriots would be on his way to Canton. When it comes to rookie QB's, coaching matters. Mac Jones stepped into a situation with a guy who has been coaching for as long as Saleh has been alive. Belichick has seen a thing or two in his day. 

You can’t say that.  Just because Zach has sucked here doesn’t mean that Jones would have.  What have you seen from Zach thus far that would lead you to believe he would be as successful in NE as Jones?   Zach has routinely missed open receivers, elected to force balls downfield for no reason and failed to execute the offensive game plan.  Based on what Jones has shown so far and the success that Mike White has had, the better argument is that Jones could be excelling in this offense.  

[TheNuuFaaolaExperience]

15 minutes ago, sec101row23 said:

You can’t say that.  Just because Zach has sucked here doesn’t mean that Jones would have.  What have you seen from Zach thus far that would lead you to believe he would be as successful in NE as Jones?   Zach has routinely missed open receivers, elected to force balls downfield for no reason and failed to execute the offensive game plan.  Based on what Jones has shown so far and the success that Mike White has had, the better argument is that Jones could be excelling in this offense.  

I can, and I just did, and will do it again. 

Belichick and McDaniel set Mac Jones up for success. The kid has talent, but he would have looked worse than Zach Wilson if he was on this team. Zach Wilson on the Patriots would be on his way to Canton. When it comes to rookie QB's, coaching matters. Mac Jones stepped into a situation with a guy who has been coaching for as long as Saleh has been alive. Belichick has seen a thing or two in his day. 

[Beerfish]

Forget the QB the thing Jet fans should be gnashing their teeth over more is the Pats defense and their scheme.

[sec101row23]

3 minutes ago, TheNuuFaaolaExperience said:

I can, and I just did, and will do it again. 

Belichick and McDaniel set Mac Jones up for success. The kid has talent, but he would have looked worse than Zach Wilson if he was on this team. Zach Wilson on the Patriots would be on his way to Canton. When it comes to rookie QB's, coaching matters. Mac Jones stepped into a situation with a guy who has been coaching for as long as Saleh has been alive. Belichick has seen a thing or two in his day. 

Whatever gets you through the night.  

[GangGreened]

12 minutes ago, TheNuuFaaolaExperience said:

I can, and I just did, and will do it again. 

Belichick and McDaniel set Mac Jones up for success. The kid has talent, but he would have looked worse than Zach Wilson if he was on this team. Zach Wilson on the Patriots would be on his way to Canton. When it comes to rookie QB's, coaching matters. Mac Jones stepped into a situation with a guy who has been coaching for as long as Saleh has been alive. Belichick has seen a thing or two in his day. 

Based on?

[JustInFudge]

1 hour ago, sec101row23 said:

I’m not sure how you can’t be impressed with what Jones has done this far.  Regardless of system, he is executing on the field damn near flawlessly.  He’s not missing open guys and he’s more than capable of getting the ball down field.  He’s accurate, poised and is making good decisions.  For people to dismiss him as a “low ceiling” player simply don’t know what they are watching.  

It's feeling like the early Brady debates and I'll probably put my foot in my mouth over this comment but Mac Jones is who Mac Jones will be 10 years from now and clearly, that's more than good enough and its possibly good enough to continue to be the best of this class but I just dont ever think he'll be considered elite.   And he might not need to be for the Patriots to continue to win.  Look at Brady through the first run of titles.  Game manager who executes and prepares at a high level and lets his D and run game do their thing while he doesnt throw away a win.  I just think like Brady if he wants to become elite, he's going to have to double the daily dosage of HGH that Brady consumes and have the same type of commitment to his body and health and I'm just not sure he's that type of guy.  Time will tell but I just dont know what Mac Jones has in his bag of tricks to be more than he is right now. 

////anxiously awaits the bump of this post and the crow I will inevitably eat.  lol

[TheNuuFaaolaExperience]

17 minutes ago, GangGreened said:

Based on?

Based on what I already said.

[FootballLove]

Sitting at 15, Bill was ready to take any rookie QB that fell to him. Tray, Alex, Mac. Who knows, M&C may have been Bill's LAST choice and would MUCH rather have had Fields or Tray. All that being said, Mac is playing better than I would have thought, and Bill is probably super pleased he fell to him. Makes Bill look like a genius when if Bill had his choice, he'd have gone in a different direction.

Sometimes things just work.

[sec101row23]

8 minutes ago, JiFapono said:

It's feeling like the early Brady debates and I'll probably put my foot in my mouth over this comment but Mac Jones is who Mac Jones will be 10 years from now and clearly, that's more than good enough and its possibly good enough to continue to be the best of this class but I just dont ever think he'll be considered elite.   And he might not need to be for the Patriots to continue to win.  Look at Brady through the first run of titles.  Game manager who executes and prepares at a high level and lets his D and run game do their thing while he doesnt throw away a win.  I just think like Brady if he wants to become elite, he's going to have to double the daily dosage of HGH that Brady consumes and have the same type of commitment to his body and health and I'm just not sure he's that type of guy.  Time will tell but I just dont know what Mac Jones has in his bag of tricks to be more than he is right now. 

////anxiously awaits the bump of this post and the crow I will inevitably eat.  lol

I don’t think he is who he is right now, there’s definitely room for growth.  I also think as they give Mac more to do in the game plan the perception of him could change.  I don’t think he will ever be considered “elite”, but I do think his game will evolve some.   
 

Anyway, my main point was that it’s silly to say that Zach would look like Mac and Mac would look worse than Zach if the situations were reversed.  Nothing Zach has done would lead us to believe that.   

[JustInFudge]

1 minute ago, sec101row23 said:

I don’t think he is who he is right now, there’s definitely room for growth.  I also think as they give Mac more to do in the game plan the perception of him could change.  I don’t think he will ever be considered “elite”, but I do think his game will evolve some.   
 

Anyway, my main point was that it’s silly to say that Zach would look like Mac and Mac would look worse than Zach if the situations were reversed.  Nothing Zach has done would lead us to believe that.   

Like I said, unfair to say that about a rookie, I know but it's just how I feel.  We'll see.

Agreed on your last take.  Though I dont think Mac Jones would be anywhere near as good here, there is no reason to think he'd be worse.  And honestly, just based on the system, I'd be more confident in Mike White executing NE's offense than Zach.  Sans 2 throws, Zach really hasnt shown that he even deserves being on an NFL Football field at this point.

[PFSIKH]

32 minutes ago, TheNuuFaaolaExperience said:

I can, and I just did, and will do it again. 

Belichick and McDaniel set Mac Jones up for success. The kid has talent, but he would have looked worse than Zach Wilson if he was on this team. Zach Wilson on the Patriots would be on his way to Canton. When it comes to rookie QB's, coaching matters. Mac Jones stepped into a situation with a guy who has been coaching for as long as Saleh has been alive. Belichick has seen a thing or two in his day. 

I have to disagree on this. 

As has been iterated and re-iterated by the pro and anti Mac crowds, he was the most pro ready QB.  His ability to read the D before the snap and during the play is better than Zach's.  Mac is 5th in Time to Throw and Zach is last.  Meaning Mac gets the ball out quick.  He is by far more accurate.

https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/stats/passing#average-time-to-throw   

I am not saying the Jets would have been much better than 1-5 in Zach's 6 games with Mac, but they would be better.  I know the OL is a mess, but so has the Patriots been a majority of the season.  It has only been decent the last 3-4 when it has stabilized.

[TheNuuFaaolaExperience]

5 minutes ago, PFSIKH said:

I have to disagree on this. 

As has been iterated and re-iterated by the pro and anti Mac crowds, he was the most pro ready QB.  His ability to read the D before the snap and during the play is better than Zach's.  Mac is 5th in Time to Throw and Zach is last.  Meaning Mac gets the ball out quick.  He is by far more accurate.

https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/stats/passing#average-time-to-throw   

I am not saying the Jets would have been much better than 1-5 in Zach's 6 games with Mac, but they would be better.  I know the OL is a mess, but so has the Patriots been a majority of the season.  It has only been decent the last 3-4 when it has stabilized.

This is where coaching comes in. Belichick would have had Wilson on the bench if he didn't learn how to get rid of the ball. Belichick made Mac Jones earn his number. He wore 50 until he proved that he could play QB at an NFL level. Wilson was handed the job. 

[PFSIKH]

1 hour ago, TheNuuFaaolaExperience said:

This is where coaching comes in. Belichick would have had Wilson on the bench if he didn't learn how to get rid of the ball. Belichick made Mac Jones earn his number. He wore 50 until he proved that he could play QB at an NFL level. Wilson was handed the job. 

No arguments there.  

[Hex]

To early to tell. Let's wait for next year to see if Mac deserves OROY

[jetstream23]

15 hours ago, doitny said:

where are you getting those numbers.

Pro Football Reference has much lower ones. if fact it has Zach much higher that Mac at air yards per att.

 

The voting machines have been tampered with I tell ya!!!!

[jgb]

16 hours ago, munchmemory said:

Hilarious that some will deride the Pats' coaching staff for designing a game plan for Jones which allows him to be brought along slowly.  Then give our dopes every excuse in the book because Zack is a disaster.

Even weirder is that Jones has surpassed what they had hoped for him to be at this point by a mile.  He's quietly having a very good year not for a rookie but any NFL QB.   While Zack looks skittish, Jones appears calm and composed behind center.   I wish Zack were playing at this level.

A salve for those who know deep down Zach Wilson has begun his career on the bust track.

15 hours ago, Gastineau Lives said:

Psst Mac Jones isn't the Jets QB so this and all your other posts lately seems like a wailing piercing lament to the universe or a cry for help.

Or the maturity to accept that commenting on the universe as it is observed doesn’t influence it.

[jgb]

9 hours ago, jetstream23 said:

 

The voting machines have been tampered with I tell ya!!!!

Data is undefeated against feelings.

[Gastineau Lives]

3 hours ago, jgb said:

A salve for those who know deep down Zach Wilson has begun his career on the bust track.

Or the maturity to accept that commenting on the universe as it is observed doesn’t influence it.

This bust track you speak of, how early is it to start commenting on it? What's a good sample size? Three games? Two games? The first quarter of the second game? First twelve minutes of the first game? 

Is it four games???

Commenting is fine, obsession is a little weird.

[Warfish]

On 11/19/2021 at 12:18 AM, Jared said:

I get what you mean, but how can you know whether the QB is any good if the coaching staff or supporting cast is any good? 

Always good seeing the “Bill and Ted Van Halen” defense.

It’s just not Christmas if we haven’t seen this old chestnut pulled out.

[Gastineau Lives]

19 hours ago, sec101row23 said:

 Zach has routinely missed open receivers,   

He's had more drops by a factor of three or four, I guarantee it.

[Viermoo]

Stop it, you'll make somebody on this board cry

I think all of us are crying.


Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

[jgb]

5 hours ago, Gastineau Lives said:

This bust track you speak of, how early is it to start commenting on it? What's a good sample size? Three games? Two games? The first quarter of the second game? First twelve minutes of the first game? 

Is it four games???

Commenting is fine, obsession is a little weird.

It’s never too early for an opinion. If you want to wait for more data, that’s cool, but people don’t have to wait for you to say it’s ok to make some assessments. It’s obsessing to give an opinion about the Jets starting QB? I guess we all need therapy then.

[Warfish]

13 minutes ago, jgb said:

It’s never too early for an opinion. If you want to wait for more data, that’s cool, but people don’t have to wait for you to say it’s ok to make some assessments. 

So very much this.

My opinions start with pre-draft evaluations, and continue evaluating till that player retires from the NFL. 

The opinion changes (when appropriate) when the players play and overall career warrants it.

So IMO it's never too early to evaluate and analyze, and that forms the basis for the ongoing opinion, good or bad.

Be assured, if Wilson throws up 350 yards and 3 TD's against the no-account Texans Defense, that will be part of any opinions I have of him, weighed against all the other facts available.

[jgb]

27 minutes ago, Warfish said:

So very much this.

My opinions start with pre-draft evaluations, and continue evaluating till that player retires from the NFL. 

The opinion changes (when appropriate) when the players play and overall career warrants it.

So IMO it's never too early to evaluate and analyze, and that forms the basis for the ongoing opinion, good or bad.

Be assured, if Wilson throws up 350 yards and 3 TD's against the no-account Texans Defense, that will be part of any opinions I have of him, weighed against all the other facts available.

Just the excuse du jour to shut down negative opinions. Next year it’ll be “he’s only 22 years old, guys,” and after that “he’s on his 3rd scheme in 3 years.”

As you said, early opinions are fine so long as you have the flexibility to adjust it as the dataset grows. As many of us did regarding Darnold. The troublesome opinions are those that are as unalterable as religious conviction and defended as ferociously. There are some things in life we must accept on faith. Whether Zach Wilson will be a good football player is not one of them

 

[jgb]

4 hours ago, Gastineau Lives said:

He's had more drops by a factor of three or four, I guarantee it.

That data while perhaps not perfect is available. You could test your belief, if you cared to.

[Sonny Werblin]

I’m not sure if this says anything about Mac&Cheese but I just realized that the Pats don’t run many, if any,  wheel routes. Over the past decade or so, it was a bread and butter route for them. They ran it masterfully out of multiple formations. I wonder why they’re abandoned it?

[jgb]

On 11/19/2021 at 10:21 AM, TheNuuFaaolaExperience said:

Belichick and McDaniel set Mac Jones up for success. The kid has talent, but he would have looked worse than Zach Wilson if he was on this team. Zach Wilson on the Patriots would be on his way to Canton. When it comes to rookie QB's, coaching matters. Mac Jones stepped into a situation with a guy who has been coaching for as long as Saleh has been alive. Belichick has seen a thing or two in his day. 

The old “QB is irrelevant only environment matters” argument.
 

QB plays bad on bad team = “He’s secretly good.”

QB plays well on a good team = “He’s secretly bad.”

Tell me: is it possible for a bad QB to be on a bad team or a good QB to be on a good team?

[Namath99]

On 11/19/2021 at 10:56 AM, GangGreened said:

Based on?

We all know Matt Cassell, Ryan Mallet, Brian Hoyer and Cam Newton all looked great in McDaniels “system”

[jetstream23]

The Patriots are currently 3rd in the NFL in Points Scored.

They are 1st in Point differential.

It's becoming increasingly clear that their team is improving each game and they have a very, very legitimate shot to win the AFC East over the Bills.

Their post-Brady rebuild seems to have taken all of about 10 minutes.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Namath99]

5 hours ago, jetstream23 said:

The Patriots are currently 3rd in the NFL in Points Scored.

They are 1st in Point differential.

It's becoming increasingly clear that their team is improving each game and they have a very, very legitimate shot to win the AFC East over the Bills.

Their post-Brady rebuild seems to have taken all of about 10 minutes.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

They nailed it on Mac Jones

 

I’m not sure why so many people were so off on evaluating this qb class.  Zach Wilson never faced top competition in college and when he did he wasn’t good.  Justin Fields looks like the previous 47 Ohio State QBs that busted in the NFL.  Trey Lance is incredibly raw and his upside is a poor man’s Jalen Hurts

 

And before we all start chugging ESPN kool aid, they have had 2 blowout wins facing a horrible Jets team which is why the point differential,  and their schedule is about to get tougher

[jgb]

On 11/22/2021 at 1:50 PM, Namath99 said:

They nailed it on Mac Jones

 

I’m not sure why so many people were so off on evaluating this qb class.  Zach Wilson never faced top competition in college and when he did he wasn’t good.  Justin Fields looks like the previous 47 Ohio State QBs that busted in the NFL.  Trey Lance is incredibly raw and his upside is a poor man’s Jalen Hurts

 

And before we all start chugging ESPN kool aid, they have had 2 blowout wins facing a horrible Jets team which is why the point differential,  and their schedule is about to get tougher

I wanted Jets to draft Mac Jones. Not all of us missed it.