Jets & Braxton Berrios have started talking extension

[Integrity28]

Guys just peaked last week. Now we’re going to pay hi to never have a gas that good again? C’mon man.

[Sperm Edwards]

17 hours ago, jetstream23 said:

 

Just looked up Crowder.  He got 3 yrs / $28.5M (in 2019).  Berrios can be a starting slot WR and automatically touches the ball a minimum of something like 5 - 7 times per game between kickoffs and punt returns.

But besides being a capable WR3 and a KR/PR, I think he really showed his value to step in as a full-time player and handle WR1/2 duties in a pinch since Davis, Moore, Crowder and others have been out.  The Jets were scraping the bottom of the WR depth chart to field guys yesterday and Tampa still had a hard time with Berrios being the only real threat the Jets had.

Final thought - This Saleh/LaFleur regime puts a premium on guys who can play multiple positions and this idea of "positionless" players.  Berrios fits that absolutely perfectly.  They use him in so many ways.  He's a guy you hate to love because he doesn't check the traditional boxes of size, physicality, huge catch radius, etc..... but he deserves the love he's getting because he does so many things well.

Combine what the Jets would be paying Crowder and Mims.... then give Berrios like 80% of that! lol

 

Except that was Crowder's contract as a UFA in a weak market. Fast forward two years and he was forced to take a 50% pay cut (granted the timing helped on that front; if Douglas approached him on March 10 with a 50% pay cut demand, Crowder would've told him to pound sand and he'd have gotten more). 

It'll be interesting to see what Crowder gets as a FA. He doesn't have BB's speed to use as a returner, but he's a far more accomplished WR than Berrios and starters always get paid more. His total yards aside, he's shown an ability to get open on 3rd downs. Berrios has started to show that, but his body of work is so much less it's just not the same thing. 

I'd hate to lose Berrios, and I don't mind overpaying him by a million-ish per season, but the truth is even $7MM/yr is kind of crazy for his body of work so far. That's around what NE was paying Edelman as a ~1000-yd/season receiver who was no stranger to special teams himself. The cap's going up, sure, but it's not doubling. 

Your last sentence forget about Mims & swap in Cole's name instead. Mims doesn't make much; if they dump him it'll be for the roster spot, not for any noticeable cap relief.

[Warfish]

28 minutes ago, OtherwiseHappyinLife said:

I agree he’s not a #1 or #2 but I do think he is a starting slot.  Not just a depth piece.  And we’ll likely see that opportunity play out.  

We can agree to disagree.  Moore should be our starting slot, he is not best used as an outside receiver IMO.

Berrios would be fine backing up Moore and returning kicks.  

[OtherwiseHappyinLife]

1 minute ago, Warfish said:

We can agree to disagree.  Moore should be our starting slot, he is not best used as an outside receiver IMO.

Berrios would be fine backing up Moore and returning kicks.  

He is not going to sign up for that.  He will be seeking a starting opportunity at slot.  Obviously, I might be wrong (have been plenty of times) but why wouldn’t he.  He’s a competitor and has performed when called upon.  8 catches this past weekend with little help.  Zero drops on the season.  

There is a good article on Jetsxfactor that you can Google detailing how the Jets have used Moore around 75% on the outside beginning with the hot streak he was on.  And how he has performed much better on the outside than in the slot.  It’s a good read when you have time.  

[Warfish]

2 minutes ago, OtherwiseHappyinLife said:

He is not going to sign up for that.  He will be seeking a starting opportunity at slot.  Obviously, I might be wrong (have been plenty of times) but why wouldn’t he.  He’s a competitor and has performed when called upon.  8 catches this past weekend with little help.  Zero drops on the season.  

There is a good article on Jetsxfactor that you can Google detailing how the Jets have used Moore around 75% on the outside beginning with the hot streak he was on.  And how he has performed much better on the outside than in the slot.  It’s a good read when you have time.  

You could certainly be right, but it doesn't change my opinion.

IMO we still need a #1 WR, and should draft one this year (IMO even ahead of an "edge").

That #1, Davis at #2, Moore at Slot is my preferred WR group for 2022.

Berrios, in a perfect 2022, would only see the field as a KR and to give Moore a breather.  

If he wants more, I would regretfully allow him to walk.  I'm not vastly overpaying for a backup.

Will be VERY interesting seeing what JD does.  For all I know JD may in fact see Berrios as a starter.  Whatever deal gets done, if it gets done, will in part tell the tale.

[nj meadowlands]

This sounds like a dumb BS rumor that a clout chasing "Jets fan social media guy" made up and will blow up horribly in our faces when Berrios signs with New England.

[Scott Dierking]

8 minutes ago, Warfish said:

  Moore should be our starting slot, he is not best used as an outside receiver IMO.

 

Not necessarily my take, but food for fodder:

Elijah Moore is proving that he’s an outside WR, not a slot

In the midst of his breakout run, Elijah Moore is proving that he is a bona fide outside wide receiver in the New York Jets' offense.

By

 Michael Nania

 -

 11/23/2021

 

Elijah Moore is an all-around wide receiver

Oftentimes, football players have labels attached to them due to stigmas that surround their physical traits.

New York Jets rookie wide receiver Elijah Moore is 5-foot-10 and 178 pounds. He is lighter than 90.3% of the other 238 wide receivers who have appeared in an NFL game this season.

Clearly, the tiny Moore is a pure slot receiver and “gadget guy”. Right?

No.

Moore is one of the hottest wide receivers in the NFL (he ranks fourth-best at his position with an average of 2.92 yards per route run from Weeks 8-11), and throughout his hot streak, he has proven that he is at his best when lined up on the outside.

The Jets and their fans marveled at Moore’s brilliance in Week 11 as he caught eight passes for 141 yards and a touchdown against Miami’s expensive secondary. Take a look at the distribution of his production in that performance:

• Slot: 9 routes run, 1 catch, 1 target, 5 yards, 0 first downs
• Outside: 26 routes run, 7 catches, 10 targets, 136 yards, 1 touchdown, 4 first downs

Just about all of Moore’s damage was done from the outside. This continues the trend that had been developing over the first three games of Moore’s explosion.

Here is a look at the distribution of Moore’s production from Weeks 8-11:

• Slot: 29 routes run, 7 targets, 6 catches, 39 yards, 1 touchdown, 1 first down
• Outside: 86 routes run, 23 targets, 18 catches, 297 yards, 3 touchdowns, 10 first downs

And here is a comparison of Moore’s efficiency over that span:

• Slot (25.2% of routes): 5.6 yards per target, 1.34 yards per route run, TD/1stD on 28.6% of targets, TD/1stD on 6.9% of routes
• Outside (74.8% of routes): 12.9 yards per target, 3.45 yards per route run, TD/1stD on 56.5% of targets, TD/1stD on 15.1% of routes

The difference in output is night and day. Moore has not done much of anything in the slot. When lined up as the outermost receiver to his side, he has been playing at a superstar-caliber level. He is just as capable of dominating along the sidelines as your favorite tall, big-bodied, “No. 1” wide receiver.

Offensive coordinator Mike LaFleur should absolutely still give Moore some slot reps (it’s great that Moore can do both), but it is clear that the outside should be his primary home. His current 75-25 split makes sense.

Moore has shown versatility in his outside alignments. He has handled both the “X” and “Z” roles and has been asked to line up both on and off the line of scrimmage.

We are also seeing Moore flash the ability to do damage at various levels of the field. Check out his production at every depth level from Weeks 8-11:

• Deep (20+ air yards): 5 catches, 6 targets, 115 yards, 1 touchdown, 4 first downs
• Intermediate (10-19 air yards): 7 catches, 9 targets, 155 yards, 2 touchdowns, 5 first downs
• Short (0-9 air yards): 7 catches, 8 targets, 57 yards, 1 touchdown, 2 first downs
• Behind line of scrimmage: 5 catches, 5 targets, 9 yards

The one area where Moore’s production can improve is behind the line of scrimmage. New York simply has not been able to get anything out of Moore in the screen game. He has been targeted behind the line of scrimmage 10 times this season and has turned those plays into only 27 yards and one first down. Much of that is not Moore’s fault, as the blocking in front of him is usually poor.

It is also possible for Moore to become even more prolific in the deep game. He is making quite a few grabs right in that 20-yard area (hence his average of only 23.0 yards per reception on 20+ yard passes over the past four weeks), but the game-breaking bombs have not been there yet.

Moore is doing his part to create opportunities for those 30, 40, and 50+ yarders – he just needs someone to quit messing around and give him a good ball. He has separated for a multitude of potential deep touchdowns on vertical routes this season in which the quarterback either did not throw him the ball or threw him a bad pass.

Once Moore gets some better blocking on screen passes and some better accuracy on deep passes, it’s over for the rest of the league.

[nj meadowlands]

1 minute ago, Warfish said:

You could certainly be right, but it doesn't change my opinion.

IMO we still need a #1 WR, and should draft one this year (IMO even ahead of an "edge").

That #1, Davis at #2, Moore at Slot is my preferred WR group for 2022.

Berrios, in a perfect 2022, would only see the field as a KR and to give Moore a breather.  

If he wants more, I would regretfully allow him to walk.  I'm not vastly overpaying for a backup.

Will be VERY interesting seeing what JD does.  For all I know JD may in fact see Berrios as a starter.  Whatever deal gets done, if it gets done, will in part tell the tale.

I'll raise you.

1. Allen Robinson
2. Elijah Moore
3. Corey Davis
4. Drake London / Treylon Burks / Jameson Williams
5. Braxton Berrios

Why the hell not.

[Sperm Edwards]

32 minutes ago, OtherwiseHappyinLife said:

I agree he’s not a #1 or #2 but I do think he is a starting slot.  Not just a depth piece.  And we’ll likely see that opportunity play out.  

It's doubtful, though. On the Jets he is or should be a depth piece.

• Davis = starting. He's guaranteed $13MM next year and is clearly starting every game so long as he's healthy. 
• Moore = starting. Same thing, different reason: he's starting every game he's healthy.
• 2022 top 5-10 draft pick = starting unless we take a bust.

One of the above 3 is going to play the slot in 3 WR sets, not Berrios.

Berrios = in this 4 WR mix he's the odd man out. When one is injured he moves into the slot role. Also yes he's on the field in 4+ WR sets. Except that is a role player, not a starter.

14 hours ago, Barry McCockinner said:

The problem in that lineup isn't Berrios though. It's Davis.  Berrios is a fine #3/#4 type guy.

The difference between #3 and #4 isn't a subtle one, though. A #3 WR is a starter who's on the field for ~75% of the offensive snaps. A #4 WR is on the field less than half that, and a WR4 like Berrios merely moves into the slot role when someone else is injured, since he can't really line up anywhere else.

Either way, WR3 is a starter and WR4 is not, no matter where he lines up. 

I want to keep him, too. He's an easy guy to like and root for, and as it's been mentioned Wilson has a good comfort level with him, but the Jets aren't so desperate for starting WRs in 2022 that they couldn't get by without him. 

[Snell41]

He reminds me of Welker/Edelman just before they both broke out respectively. Berrios is a good dude to have on the team.


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[section314]

2 minutes ago, Scott Dierking said:

Not necessarily my take, but food for fodder:

Elijah Moore is proving that he’s an outside WR, not a slot

In the midst of his breakout run, Elijah Moore is proving that he is a bona fide outside wide receiver in the New York Jets' offense.

By

 Michael Nania

 -

 11/23/2021

 

Elijah Moore is an all-around wide receiver

Oftentimes, football players have labels attached to them due to stigmas that surround their physical traits.

New York Jets rookie wide receiver Elijah Moore is 5-foot-10 and 178 pounds. He is lighter than 90.3% of the other 238 wide receivers who have appeared in an NFL game this season.

Clearly, the tiny Moore is a pure slot receiver and “gadget guy”. Right?

No.

Moore is one of the hottest wide receivers in the NFL (he ranks fourth-best at his position with an average of 2.92 yards per route run from Weeks 8-11), and throughout his hot streak, he has proven that he is at his best when lined up on the outside.

The Jets and their fans marveled at Moore’s brilliance in Week 11 as he caught eight passes for 141 yards and a touchdown against Miami’s expensive secondary. Take a look at the distribution of his production in that performance:

• Slot: 9 routes run, 1 catch, 1 target, 5 yards, 0 first downs
• Outside: 26 routes run, 7 catches, 10 targets, 136 yards, 1 touchdown, 4 first downs

Just about all of Moore’s damage was done from the outside. This continues the trend that had been developing over the first three games of Moore’s explosion.

Here is a look at the distribution of Moore’s production from Weeks 8-11:

• Slot: 29 routes run, 7 targets, 6 catches, 39 yards, 1 touchdown, 1 first down
• Outside: 86 routes run, 23 targets, 18 catches, 297 yards, 3 touchdowns, 10 first downs

And here is a comparison of Moore’s efficiency over that span:

• Slot (25.2% of routes): 5.6 yards per target, 1.34 yards per route run, TD/1stD on 28.6% of targets, TD/1stD on 6.9% of routes
• Outside (74.8% of routes): 12.9 yards per target, 3.45 yards per route run, TD/1stD on 56.5% of targets, TD/1stD on 15.1% of routes

The difference in output is night and day. Moore has not done much of anything in the slot. When lined up as the outermost receiver to his side, he has been playing at a superstar-caliber level. He is just as capable of dominating along the sidelines as your favorite tall, big-bodied, “No. 1” wide receiver.

Offensive coordinator Mike LaFleur should absolutely still give Moore some slot reps (it’s great that Moore can do both), but it is clear that the outside should be his primary home. His current 75-25 split makes sense.

Moore has shown versatility in his outside alignments. He has handled both the “X” and “Z” roles and has been asked to line up both on and off the line of scrimmage.

We are also seeing Moore flash the ability to do damage at various levels of the field. Check out his production at every depth level from Weeks 8-11:

• Deep (20+ air yards): 5 catches, 6 targets, 115 yards, 1 touchdown, 4 first downs
• Intermediate (10-19 air yards): 7 catches, 9 targets, 155 yards, 2 touchdowns, 5 first downs
• Short (0-9 air yards): 7 catches, 8 targets, 57 yards, 1 touchdown, 2 first downs
• Behind line of scrimmage: 5 catches, 5 targets, 9 yards

The one area where Moore’s production can improve is behind the line of scrimmage. New York simply has not been able to get anything out of Moore in the screen game. He has been targeted behind the line of scrimmage 10 times this season and has turned those plays into only 27 yards and one first down. Much of that is not Moore’s fault, as the blocking in front of him is usually poor.

It is also possible for Moore to become even more prolific in the deep game. He is making quite a few grabs right in that 20-yard area (hence his average of only 23.0 yards per reception on 20+ yard passes over the past four weeks), but the game-breaking bombs have not been there yet.

Moore is doing his part to create opportunities for those 30, 40, and 50+ yarders – he just needs someone to quit messing around and give him a good ball. He has separated for a multitude of potential deep touchdowns on vertical routes this season in which the quarterback either did not throw him the ball or threw him a bad pass.

Once Moore gets some better blocking on screen passes and some better accuracy on deep passes, it’s over for the rest of the league.

I'll tell you what, give me Treylon Burks as#1, Moore as #2, Davis as #3, Berrios as slot, a true #1 TE from drfat/FA, and Jarrett  Patterson from ND at C, and I think this offense could be special next year. And it's all doable.

[OtherwiseHappyinLife]

10 minutes ago, Warfish said:

You could certainly be right, but it doesn't change my opinion.

IMO we still need a #1 WR, and should draft one this year (IMO even ahead of an "edge").

That #1, Davis at #2, Moore at Slot is my preferred WR group for 2022.

Berrios, in a perfect 2022, would only see the field as a KR and to give Moore a breather.  

If he wants more, I would regretfully allow him to walk.  I'm not vastly overpaying for a backup.

Will be VERY interesting seeing what JD does.  For all I know JD may in fact see Berrios as a starter.  Whatever deal gets done, if it gets done, will in part tell the tale.

All fair points.  I’m a data guy and the article a couple posts up is what I was referring to ^^^.

That said, I agree we should target WR in round 1.  Cannot have enough good ones and Moore will be part of the equation @ slot.  To maximize his potential, I see Moore playing all over the field!

With the amount of injuries the Jets have had, 4 starting caliber WRs is a MUST.

First round pick (big and fast) on outside

Corey Davis on outside

E Moore on outside and inside

Berrios in the slot

Second round pick TE up the seem

[Jet Blast]

1 hour ago, OtherwiseHappyinLife said:

I’ll bet you half of half to the 10th power that it’s closer to the higher number than lower number.  LOL.

What market benchmark are you looking at to get to $4M a year for a top 3 kickoff AND punt returner, Pro Bowl alternate, and #1 slot receiver which he will argue he has earned the opportunity to compete for.  And the stats will support it.

If the Jets don’t view him as a viable starting slot, Berrios will NOT sign here.  Nor would most of us.  It’s in his best interest to have this opportunity and other teams will pony up.

Moore is an outside receiver / part time slot and the receiver the Jets take in round 1 or 2 will also be insurance for Corey Davis if he doesn’t rebound Year 2.  They can cut him after year 2 with less than a million cap hit.

 

Admittedly, I am no expert on salary issues, but I read a lot. The consensus I see among sports writers is $3M-$4M per year. 

Additionally, I think fans often have a tendency to overvalue players.

 

[OtherwiseHappyinLife]

The other thing to consider is that better playmakers will make the line better.  

That’s why I favor WR over OL in round 1.  I think it creates a better offensive balance and will help out Zach and all the big guys upfront.

Assuming of course that the Jets still believe in Becton, Fant’s injury doesn’t extend into 2022, and the Jets look to retain Moses and LDT and invest in young OL later in draft (for example 2 picks in round 4 after addressing defensive needs).

[OtherwiseHappyinLife]

3 minutes ago, Jet Blast said:

Admittedly, I am no expert on salary issues, but I read a lot. The consensus I see among sports writers is $3M-$4M per year. 

Additionally, I think fans often have a tendency to overvalue players.

 

Definitely agree with that last part ;).

Berrios might be different though, especially jumping out on a fairly inept team that has problems making basic plays let alone clutch ones.

The guy just makes plays, moves the chains, energizes the crowd, and can be counted on in win or lose moments.

We’ll see.  Agree that we shouldn’t just overpay but should link to what the market dictates.  That’s probably the only place me and you have different opinions.

[bla bla bla]

20 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

It's doubtful, though. On the Jets he is or should be a depth piece.

• Davis = starting. He's guaranteed $13MM next year and is clearly starting every game so long as he's healthy. 
• Moore = starting. Same thing, different reason: he's starting every game he's healthy.
• 2022 top 5-10 draft pick = starting unless we take a bust.

One of the above 3 is going to play the slot in 3 WR sets, not Berrios.

Berrios = in this 4 WR mix he's the odd man out. When one is injured he moves into the slot role. Also yes he's on the field in 4+ WR sets. Except that is a role player, not a starter.

The difference between #3 and #4 isn't a subtle one, though. A #3 WR is a starter who's on the field for ~75% of the offensive snaps. A #4 WR is on the field less than half that, and a WR4 like Berrios merely moves into the slot role when someone else is injured, since he can't really line up anywhere else.

Either way, WR3 is a starter and WR4 is not, no matter where he lines up. 

I want to keep him, too. He's an easy guy to like and root for, and as it's been mentioned Wilson has a good comfort level with him, but the Jets aren't so desperate for starting WRs in 2022 that they couldn't get by without him. 

Yea this is exactly my thinking as well.

Corey Davis

Elijah Moore

Draft Pick

Berrios

 

Would be the pecking order I'd like to see. I'd imagine in this scenario we would see a lot of Berrios early on in the season as the rookie gets broken in. Not to mention we like our screens and sweeps so he'll still get some touches.

[SAM SAM HE'S OUR MAN]

6 hours ago, bla bla bla said:

Yea this is exactly my thinking as well.

Corey Davis

Elijah Moore

Draft Pick

Berrios

 

Would be the pecking order I'd like to see. I'd imagine in this scenario we would see a lot of Berrios early on in the season as the rookie gets broken in. Not to mention we like our screens and sweeps so he'll still get some touches.

Corey Davis is soooooooooooo overrated .

[hawk]

He is making $850,000 this year.  He understands what he is, and his role.  

 

4yr 16Million $3 Million Roster Bonus Yr 1 with $2 million in 2022, 2.5 2023, 3.5 2024, 4 2025. 

$5 million cap hit Year 1, with $3 million upfront.  No guarantees other than roster bonus.

[OtherwiseHappyinLife]

3 minutes ago, hawk said:

He is making $850,000 this year.  He understands what he is, and his role.  

 

4yr 16Million $3 Million Roster Bonus Yr 1 with $2 million in 2022, 2.5 2023, 3.5 2024, 4 2025. 

$5 million cap hit Year 1, with $3 million upfront.  No guarantees other than roster bonus.

Good post.  We'll see.  I think he might disagree with you.  LOL.  

One could argue you are pigeonholing him and projecting a confidence level on a subject you really don't know. ('he understands his role')

I actually like your contract but expect it will come out light.

The great thing in all these debates is that we shall find out soon enough.

[hawk]

27 minutes ago, OtherwiseHappyinLife said:

Good post.  We'll see.  I think he might disagree with you.  LOL.  

One could argue you are pigeonholing him and projecting a confidence level on a subject you really don't know. ('he understands his role')

I actually like your contract but expect it will come out light.

The great thing in all these debates is that we shall find out soon enough.

I guess we will see.

I would be hard pressed to find any comps above $4 million per for a 4th WR ST guys, and possibly my favorite Jet.

[OtherwiseHappyinLife]

11 minutes ago, hawk said:

I guess we will see.

I would be hard pressed to find any comps above $4 million per for a 4th WR ST guys, and possibly my favorite Jet.

You are right about the 4th WR but I would argue that in this case it is equivalent to starting slot because I expect Moore to only play up to 1/3 of his snaps in the slot (he was at 25% per article linked in this thread).  This leaves a bigger slot role for Berrios to fill while allowing him to remain in his special teams roles.

Most of the time starting slot would be more black and white.  Or 4th receiver would be lesser impact.  But with Moore being a hybrid who they want to run deep on the outside, this creates a unique situation.

I can also see them running 4 receivers more often if they can stay healthy, if not rotating to keep players fresh while minimizing the injuries that will likely occur and have occurred a lot to the Jets.

In today’s NFL, having 4 starting quality receivers can create a competitive advantage.

Thats’s where I see this going. 

[phill1c]

13 hours ago, FidelioJet said:

I was quoting someone that often expresses concern for people making excuses for Wilson  (If I quoted you I apologize, it was an accident)

I'm with you - I think we need to take a WR in the 1st and a big target at that and a TE in the second.  With Davis as your third best WR - along with a high quality and athletic TE - This team would be poised to be very competitive.

you probably weren't talking to me or any comment I made. I'm sorry, I was too aggressive.

I don't think we need as much as you mentioned. ONE 1st/2nd round target should be sufficient. It's about keeping the guys we have on the field, Jets need consistency at each positions. Seems like just as soon as the OL started playing well, the WRs went down. But I think that is common in first-year teams: there's no rhythm the body is used to.

I'd like a nice large/fast WR added. But I also believe a priority should be on defense: tall, rangy safety. I'm not sure what else the Jets need. But those two things would be a start. I'm never sold on the notion of "needing" a TE. In my offense (the one I don't actually have) the TE's main responsibility: BLOCK. Every skill player should be able to catch, but if your WRs are great, I don't think you need a great TE. So, maybe it's flexibility in the 1st/2nd round for that skill player. I also admit to seeing the Jets pick a ton of TEs that just didn't work out all that well: Johnnie Mitchell, Anthony Becht, another name escapes me. 

[bla bla bla]

6 hours ago, SAM SAM HE'S OUR MAN said:

Corey Davis is soooooooooooo overrated .

You can put Elijah Moore ahead of him, point is those would be the top 3 WR ahead of Berrios

[Rangers1]

I really hope they keep him, always liked him at UM (big canes fan). I was so glad when the Jets picked him up