Training Camp Updates: Jets-Falcons Joint Practice #1

[JetPotato]

Holy crap. Are the Jets going to be COMPETITIVE?

I've never been more ecstatic about something so mediocre.

[Dunnie]

Fun fact: If you look at this gif while dying of thirst (like I am at the moment) you will notice the water WAY before you notice Phoebe Cates.

...I think that's a sign of male menopause ...

Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Tapatalk

[JustInFudge]

45 minutes ago, PorP said:

The excuse is for the lack of maturity and restraint that it would take not to infect every thread with this garbage....  the excuse is well... he's a jet so it's magically all related, just deal with it. 

You use the same rational as any 3 year old crying for a sucker.... whether the store they are in has suckers or not. 

Not worth further infecting this thread about... I'm out

[JustInFudge]

14 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

People stare down receivers when they're supposed to, when that's the play call.  When you're taught to stare down the receiver.  .  Short throws, when they're supposed to be short throws they're taught to eye that receiver and throw it to him....Now if that receiver isn't open you then move to the second read.  I even made that point in the post!

Sometimes I wonder if you're just looking to argue.  

Go ahead and watch the film of the 6 passes Zach threw.  Two times - he didn't look off - both of those were short passes where he was supposed to stare down the receiver.

It's okay that Zach Wilson does some things well, I promise you can still attack him - people will still love you for it. but It won't be the end of the world.

[Sammybighead]

I go back to what I said months ago. We gonna learn a lot about zach this season, good or bad. Either way, it's great. We'll either have a star qb on a young upcoming team or We'll be in a position to attract/draft a qb on a really good roster. Enjoy the ride fellas!

[Gastineau Lives]

13 hours ago, maury77 said:

And you will also discover that you are probably gay ?

Exactly. That was my way of coming out to you, Maurice.

[Joe Willie White Shoes]

6 hours ago, Sammybighead said:

I go back to what I said months ago. We gonna learn a lot about zach this season, good or bad. Either way, it's great. We'll either have a star qb on a young upcoming team or We'll be in a position to attract/draft a qb on a really good roster. Enjoy the ride fellas!

We are not going to learn anything about him if he sits and watches while Flacco plays, as some keep wishing for.  

[Larz]

6 minutes ago, Joe Willie White Shoes said:

We are not going to learn anything about him if he sits and watches while Flacco plays, as some keep wishing for.  

Worked for Rodgers 

[Joe Willie White Shoes]

2 hours ago, Larz said:

Worked for Rodgers 

That was 17 years ago.  And he was drafted to replace a HOF QB who was still on the roster and starting when he was picked.  It's a different league now. Name me the last QB who sat more than 1 season or one who sat in year 2?  There isn't one.  Rodgers was also pre- rookie salary scale. Once the rookie salary scale went into effect in 2011, it made no sense to sit highly drafted QBs and waste their rookie contracts.  

[Larz]

21 minutes ago, Joe Willie White Shoes said:

That was 17 years ago.  And he was drafted to replace a HOF QB who was still on the roster and starting when he was picked.  It's a different league now. Name me the last QB who sat more than 1 season or one who sat in year 2?  There isn't one.  Rodgers was also pre- rookie salary scale. Once the rookie salary scale went into effect in 2011, it made no sense to sit highly drafted QBs and waste their rookie contracts.  

Worked for Mahomes 

[Joe Willie White Shoes]

9 minutes ago, Larz said:

Worked for Mahomes 

As I said in my post, name me a QB who sat in his second season. Mahomes played his second season. Nobody sits in year 2.  Wilson has to play this season to properly evaluate him.  There is no other choice.  

[Jetsfan80]

13 hours ago, PorP said:

The excuse is for the lack of maturity and restraint that it would take not to infect every thread with this garbage....  the excuse is well... he's a jet so it's magically all related, just deal with it. 

You use the same rational as any 3 year old crying for a sucker.... whether the store they are in has suckers or not. 

Not worth further infecting this thread about... I'm out

[Larz]

3 hours ago, Joe Willie White Shoes said:

As I said in my post, name me a QB who sat in his second season. Mahomes played his second season. Nobody sits in year 2.  Wilson has to play this season to properly evaluate him.  There is no other choice.  

Worked for Garappolo

[Joe Willie White Shoes]

2 hours ago, Larz said:

Worked for Garappolo

So much so that he is a man without a team........Please.  And any success he had was not with the team that drafted him. Strike 3. 

[BUM-KNEE]

On 8/19/2022 at 1:55 PM, Legend Killa7 said:

so...you're perfectly happy with similar production to the 2001 through 2006 Jets?  I loved Chad, but man those teams were a QB away.  Chad was competent.  begore his first injury, he was better than competent. 

why waste the potential of this YOUNG TEAM on a "has been".  sorry.  and I am not being disrespectful to Flacco.  Just being realistic.  Flacco playing 1, 2, even 7 good games with this team does absolutely NOTHING for the Jets organization.  or its fans.

Well if Flacco plays decent and the O sustains drives, it definately helps the other 10 guys out there gel and apply/hone their skills. Pretty sure its a good thing to have the O-line work out the kinks and younng RBS/TEs know their blocking assignments before ZW goes back under center.  It also gives the coaches good film to study for the entire offense, thus more data to help clean up mistakes and eventually cement and expand the playbook. Maybe playing with a lead helps the DBs be more aggressive, and the D overall isnt hamstrung?

Having Flacco play well under center helps the big picture in many ways. Zack is going to come back in when hes ready, and it would be nice if the team was over the early bumps. It might let him settle down a bit.

[Larz]

8 hours ago, Joe Willie White Shoes said:

So much so that he is a man without a team........Please.  And any success he had was not with the team that drafted him. Strike 3. 

Lol the 9ers are making the same mistake the jets are. 
 

ozzie newsome is famous for saying “ know what you are looking for and what you are looking at “

Wilson is a slower processor than Darnold and still doesn’t trust his eyes. He’s Josh Rosen, but softer. 
 

would you bring in Darnold and Rosen and give them more reps ?

Ball 4

[T0mShane]

17 hours ago, Joe Willie White Shoes said:

We are not going to learn anything about him if he sits and watches while Flacco plays, as some keep wishing for.  

I agree that he’s going to get eight games to stay healthy and show something, but I think the leash is going to be a lot shorter than people think. We’re seeing the offense spike—again—with Zach on the bench, other receivers are emerging, and the OL is mysteriously no longer giving up ten sacks every practice session. At some point, the Jets staff has to prioritize the welfare of the other 52 players on the team over the struggling QB who lucked his way into being drafted at 2. 

[derp]

12 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

I agree that he’s going to get eight games to stay healthy and show something, but I think the leash is going to be a lot shorter than people think. We’re seeing the offense spike—again—with Zach on the bench, other receivers are emerging, and the OL is mysteriously no longer giving up ten sacks every practice session. At some point, the Jets staff has to prioritize the welfare of the other 52 players on the team over the struggling QB who lucked his way into being drafted at 2. 

At this point when you ask who’s the recent exception who’s played poorly early and ended up good, the answer is Josh Allen - who showed meaningful improvement his second year. The pieces are in place for the quarterback to be successful here.

I don’t know if you completely cut bait if year two isn’t good, but probably a competition that you think he’d need to improve meaningfully to win and/or against a young potential franchise QB. And those kind of players are out there. If this team is good and the quarterback is a problem, kind of need to see how good the team is.

I hope Wilson is better than Flacco, genuinely - and his youth should obviously break ties or anything close.  And I think a lot of people who hate these kinds of takes are certain that Wilson is better. I’d stop short of saying Flacco is definitely better, but I’m not sure I’ve seen enough to know that Wilson is clearly better either. I know he’s “the starter” but he’s been the starter before he touched a ball in practice so that designation isn’t especially meaningful to me.

I’ll add that hopefully he made significant improvements late last season, but if I remember right we had the same hope for Darnold as a rookie or second year guy.

[T0mShane]

32 minutes ago, derp said:

At this point when you ask who’s the recent exception who’s played poorly early and ended up good, the answer is Josh Allen - who showed meaningful improvement his second year. The pieces are in place for the quarterback to be successful here.

I don’t know if you completely cut bait if year two isn’t good, but probably a competition that you think he’d need to improve meaningfully to win and/or against a young potential franchise QB. And those kind of players are out there. If this team is good and the quarterback is a problem, kind of need to see how good the team is.

I hope Wilson is better than Flacco, genuinely - and his youth should obviously break ties or anything close.  And I think a lot of people who hate these kinds of takes are certain that Wilson is better. I’d stop short of saying Flacco is definitely better, but I’m not sure I’ve seen enough to know that Wilson is clearly better either. I know he’s “the starter” but he’s been the starter before he touched a ball in practice so that designation isn’t especially meaningful to me.

I’ll add that hopefully he made significant improvements late last season, but if I remember right we had the same hope for Darnold as a rookie or second year guy.

+1. Feels like Flacco will, at least, provide an interesting barometer as to what Zach’s impact on the team has been. Obviously, playing Flacco isn’t ideal and, at best, he’s a middling vet QB, but if the offense looks improved and the young receivers are showing out, it’s a direct indictment of Zach Wilson’s ability to see the field and deliver the ball on time. If you’re LaFleur or Saleh, I don’t know how you choose to hamper Elijah Moore, Garrett Wilson, etc, simply in the name of hoping that Zach takes an aberrational Josh Allen-like turn. And if you’re Douglas, it’s in your best interest to have a lot of guys look good-to-great even if it means taking a bath on the QB you drafted by mistake. He can’t wait too long, especially now that we’re about to get even more data showing that the offense is better with non-Zach QBs at the helm. 
 

RE: Darnold. I looked up the last four games of his rookie year. Averaged 64% passing, 230+ yards per, 7 TDs, 1 INT, and he had that epic game against Rodgers where they went toe to toe: 24 for 35, 341 yards, 3 TD, no picks. Jets lost 44-38.

PS: Keep seeing updates about Ekwonu getting mauled against the Pats in his first start and I’m preparing to eat sh*t on that bet. ?

[derp]

42 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

+1. Feels like Flacco will, at least, provide an interesting barometer as to what Zach’s impact on the team has been. Obviously, playing Flacco isn’t ideal and, at best, he’s a middling vet QB, but if the offense looks improved and the young receivers are showing out, it’s a direct indictment of Zach Wilson’s ability to see the field and deliver the ball on time. If you’re LaFleur or Saleh, I don’t know how you choose to hamper Elijah Moore, Garrett Wilson, etc, simply in the name of hoping that Zach takes an aberrational Josh Allen-like turn. And if you’re Douglas, it’s in your best interest to have a lot of guys look good-to-great even if it means taking a bath on the QB you drafted by mistake. He can’t wait too long, especially now that we’re about to get even more data showing that the offense is better with non-Zach QBs at the helm. 
 

RE: Darnold. I looked up the last four games of his rookie year. Averaged 64% passing, 230+ yards per, 7 TDs, 1 INT, and he had that epic game against Rodgers where they went toe to toe: 24 for 35, 341 yards, 3 TD, no picks. Jets lost 44-38.

PS: Keep seeing updates about Ekwonu getting mauled against the Pats in his first start and I’m preparing to eat sh*t on that bet. ?

Yeah, absolutely. I think we saw it last year too. The pressure all of a sudden didn't seem that bad despite having an old statue back there. The offense should look better with Wilson, or at least the same. If it doesn't, then it's an indictment for sure.

I think Douglas is in hot water if the Wilson pick doesn't pan out, especially if Lance goes bananas this year (which is probably more fantasy football than reality), but if the rest of the roster looks good enough there's a chance that he survives it. But man, the top portion of the 2021 draft was loaded. Between 2 and 14 with non-QB's you've got: Pitts who looks like an elite tight end and made the Pro Bowl as a rookie, Chase who was already an elite WR and also made the Pro Bowl, Waddle who had an outstanding rookie year at WR, Sewell who made significant strides, Horn who they probably don't regret missing, Surtain who is at a level they hope Gardner goes to and is potentially one of the best corners in the league this year, Parsons who was absolutely elite as a rookie - helped turn around the Dallas defense and made a big impact as a pass rusher - and made the Pro Bowl, Smith who had a very good rookie year at WR, and Slater who made the Pro Bowl as a rookie left tackle.

Good to validate the Darnold memory. Sometimes guys go on runs. That stretch is probably better than what Wilson did last year - probably was against largely worse competition too - but that stuff needs to stretch into this year.

One of the things the Athletic podcast has talked about recently with teams like the Panthers and Commanders at QB and the Bengals' OL is the difference in a unit going from awful to somewhere between average and below average can make for the guys that unit impacts. I hope we aren't seeing it at QB for the Jets with Flacco, but it's not outside the realm of possibility. And if that's the case and the rest of the team looks legitimately good, this offseason they need to make moves to get to that average level of QB play (Garoppolo?), allow the young guys to continue to develop, and figure out how to get a franchise QB or a guy on a rookie deal who gives you a huge margin for error if he can be in that below average area (see the Eagles winning a SB on Wentz's rookie deal, Goff taking the Rams to the SB, etc - Anthony Richardson?).

The other thing that we haven't gotten to but is key is the culture. I honestly don't know if it's good or not, but I do think it seems borderline good and I know it's been a point of emphasis with the guys they've brought in. And Saleh was kind of brought here to establish a good culture. Kind of becomes self fulfilling when you bring in high character guys but potentially besides the point. I do think you absolutely run the risk of losing that if you play an obviously worse quarterback - again, not saying Wilson *is* worse, but if he is then playing him becomes problematic in my opinion. And honestly, I think if established a good culture is pretty valuable. Being at least competitive this year and feeling like they're building something could push towards that a little.

There are so many ways to get to average at QB without a high first round pick too. The Colts effectively do it annually in new and interesting ways because they're a desirable destination - I'd want to be more aggressive about a young guy than them. Denver just brought in Wilson. The Vikings signed Cousins. The Titans brought in Tannehill as a reclamation project. Philly is using a day two mobile quarterback to remain competitive - that's my preferred approach but I also wanted them to draft Hurts and think I just envision the Jets having a running QB someday. Tampa got Brady. The Rams grabbed Stafford. I'm sure I'm missing others.

Obviously the dream is a young franchise QB but even that - Herbert was drafted at 6, Allen at 7, Mahomes at 10, Jackson at 32. There will be a Joe Burrow every decade or so, but it's hard to count on that guy being out the year you're at the top of the draft and otherwise it's been a minefield. Better to have an established supporting cast and facilitate a guy's development. I also think that LaFleur is a legitimately decent playcaller, he was creative with absolute trash skill talent last year, and could be good for a young QB.

We'll see how the bet plays out haha, good cause either way. Ekwonu just seemed like a backwards pick to me - not to trigger anything but like a run stuffer on defense at DT or safety (Jamal Adams anyone?), in a passing league guys get drafted early to impact the passing game - an elite run blocking OL who needs pass pro development is just not a top of the first round pick to me. Last year's draft was also pretty brutal which I'm sure played into it.

[T0mShane]

1 hour ago, derp said:

Yeah, absolutely. I think we saw it last year too. The pressure all of a sudden didn't seem that bad despite having an old statue back there. The offense should look better with Wilson, or at least the same. If it doesn't, then it's an indictment for sure.

I think Douglas is in hot water if the Wilson pick doesn't pan out, especially if Lance goes bananas this year (which is probably more fantasy football than reality), but if the rest of the roster looks good enough there's a chance that he survives it. But man, the top portion of the 2021 draft was loaded. Between 2 and 14 with non-QB's you've got: Pitts who looks like an elite tight end and made the Pro Bowl as a rookie, Chase who was already an elite WR and also made the Pro Bowl, Waddle who had an outstanding rookie year at WR, Sewell who made significant strides, Horn who they probably don't regret missing, Surtain who is at a level they hope Gardner goes to and is potentially one of the best corners in the league this year, Parsons who was absolutely elite as a rookie - helped turn around the Dallas defense and made a big impact as a pass rusher - and made the Pro Bowl, Smith who had a very good rookie year at WR, and Slater who made the Pro Bowl as a rookie left tackle.

Good to validate the Darnold memory. Sometimes guys go on runs. That stretch is probably better than what Wilson did last year - probably was against largely worse competition too - but that stuff needs to stretch into this year.

One of the things the Athletic podcast has talked about recently with teams like the Panthers and Commanders at QB and the Bengals' OL is the difference in a unit going from awful to somewhere between average and below average can make for the guys that unit impacts. I hope we aren't seeing it at QB for the Jets with Flacco, but it's not outside the realm of possibility. And if that's the case and the rest of the team looks legitimately good, this offseason they need to make moves to get to that average level of QB play (Garoppolo?), allow the young guys to continue to develop, and figure out how to get a franchise QB or a guy on a rookie deal who gives you a huge margin for error if he can be in that below average area (see the Eagles winning a SB on Wentz's rookie deal, Goff taking the Rams to the SB, etc - Anthony Richardson?).

The other thing that we haven't gotten to but is key is the culture. I honestly don't know if it's good or not, but I do think it seems borderline good and I know it's been a point of emphasis with the guys they've brought in. And Saleh was kind of brought here to establish a good culture. Kind of becomes self fulfilling when you bring in high character guys but potentially besides the point. I do think you absolutely run the risk of losing that if you play an obviously worse quarterback - again, not saying Wilson *is* worse, but if he is then playing him becomes problematic in my opinion. And honestly, I think if established a good culture is pretty valuable. Being at least competitive this year and feeling like they're building something could push towards that a little.

There are so many ways to get to average at QB without a high first round pick too. The Colts effectively do it annually in new and interesting ways because they're a desirable destination - I'd want to be more aggressive about a young guy than them. Denver just brought in Wilson. The Vikings signed Cousins. The Titans brought in Tannehill as a reclamation project. Philly is using a day two mobile quarterback to remain competitive - that's my preferred approach but I also wanted them to draft Hurts and think I just envision the Jets having a running QB someday. Tampa got Brady. The Rams grabbed Stafford. I'm sure I'm missing others.

Obviously the dream is a young franchise QB but even that - Herbert was drafted at 6, Allen at 7, Mahomes at 10, Jackson at 32. There will be a Joe Burrow every decade or so, but it's hard to count on that guy being out the year you're at the top of the draft and otherwise it's been a minefield. Better to have an established supporting cast and facilitate a guy's development. I also think that LaFleur is a legitimately decent playcaller, he was creative with absolute trash skill talent last year, and could be good for a young QB.

We'll see how the bet plays out haha, good cause either way. Ekwonu just seemed like a backwards pick to me - not to trigger anything but like a run stuffer on defense at DT or safety (Jamal Adams anyone?), in a passing league guys get drafted early to impact the passing game - an elite run blocking OL who needs pass pro development is just not a top of the first round pick to me. Last year's draft was also pretty brutal which I'm sure played into it.

I think Douglas can slip the Zach pick because he was the consensus guy at that #2 spot and it can be explained away by the difficulty scouting during the Covid year. That said, he’ll take the hit if Zach is completing >55% for a sh*tty EPA and he’s still starting games in late November. Careers are on the line here and time is getting tight for Saleh, LaFleur, and Douglas. 

[GandWFan]

31 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

I think Douglas can slip the Zach pick because he was the consensus guy at that #2 spot and it can be explained away by the difficulty scouting during the Covid year. That said, he’ll take the hit if Zach is completing >55% for a sh*tty EPA and he’s still starting games in late November. Careers are on the line here and time is getting tight for Saleh, LaFleur, and Douglas. 

Nope.  No one's job is on the line this year.  Sorry.  I know it doesn't fit your shtick, but nope.  Wrong.  Try again.  

[derp]

27 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

I think Douglas can slip the Zach pick because he was the consensus guy at that #2 spot and it can be explained away by the difficulty scouting during the Covid year. That said, he’ll take the hit if Zach is completing >55% for a sh*tty EPA and he’s still starting games in late November. Careers are on the line here and time is getting tight for Saleh, LaFleur, and Douglas. 

Man, I'm not so sure Wilson was consensus #2 there to be honest.  I think Wilson became consensus #2 and nobody really questioned it because everyone knew it was happening so it just became a given. Whole process started and Fields was consensus #2 by a mile, he had that awesome game against Clemson and Lawrence. And Lance was the most toolsy guy.

Also even if Wilson was #2, it was really, really easy to see how insanely clean his pockets were playing against poor competition that year - dude was very obviously going to struggle making a jump in talent and complexity while learning how to deal with a pass rush. So if he was the guy, it was still negligent to start him his rookie year. Should've absolutely redshirted.

Given it was pretty obvious even to someone like me that they didn't have a good enough team to support the development of a QB, and they had their pick of the special position players and the opportunity to kick the QB decision down the curb a year and add one of those guys to support the QB when you get him. There were trade down opportunities, too.

Vera-Tucker also kind of needs to become an elite, elite guard to justify that move up to take him in the mid-first. Does the split into that second tier of the first round in the draft class start after Slater or after AVT? Douglas made a pretty big bet the split starts after AVT but it's up in the air currently.

I realize it all sounds like revisionist history but I think I've actually been consistent about all of this stuff since before that draft. It's not like I'm that smart, it was all really, really obvious.

[UntouchableCrew]

13 minutes ago, GandWFan said:

Nope.  No one's job is on the line this year.  Sorry.  I know it doesn't fit your shtick, but nope.  Wrong.  Try again.  

If they start Wilson and he's awful and the team goes 5-12 I don't think anyone is fired.

But they'd enter 2023 on the hot seat and their jobs would absolutely be on the line then.

[GandWFan]

5 minutes ago, UntouchableCrew said:

If they start Wilson and he's awful and the team goes 5-12 I don't think anyone is fired.

But they'd enter 2023 on the hot seat and their jobs would absolutely be on the line then.

Agreed.  But if Zach or others don't perform, changes will be made.  Hopefully the right changes.  We will see.  Still optimistic for this year, though.  We finally have all or most of the pieces.  If qb1 hits, this could be a fun season.