You’re the GM: finishing touches to make this a championship team?

[bonkertons]

22 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Agree. I think Mosley sticks for that reason. I'm against it, of course, but am preparing myself for the team overvaluing him again even after his guaranteed $ expires.

Lawson is a no-brainer. Sure he's on the field all the time now, but no reason not to. I think he's gone after Douglas just drafted JJII and Dr. No in 2022. My guess is it wasn't just pure BAP but there was an eye on needing cap room or better production from 2022's JFM and certainly in case Lawson couldn't come back. Whatever the primary motivation at the time, I think that duo has made at least one of them expendable and Lawson just isn't as versatile as JFM if cutting bait with both at the same time is too scary for them. 

Rankins same thing, but unless he's really cheap again I see someone else outbidding the Jets.

Davis is the tougher call. They've said plenty that having his veteran presence in the huddle (like CJM on D) makes them all feel better about their assignments, but that can't be the case forever & wonder how much of that uncertainty stemmed from not just no Davis but no Davis with Wilson at QB.

 

I agree with all.  Cut Lawson, keep JFM, keep Rankins(if possible), and keep Davis.  I think if you cut Davis you'll have to replace him with another veteran who will probably make similar or even more money.  Davis is good for what he brings.

 

Can even look to cut Tomlinson and/or Brown as well, which is about another $23M free with about $5.5M in dead cap.  I'd also obviously look to restructure Mosley if we keep him around.

 

I think there's a decent amount of wiggle room with the cap, and players we can move on from who shouldn't really make or break us.  Can look to replace them through the draft or with cheaper options.  Find ways to pay our big guys like Quinnen and possibly White(or another QB).

[K_O_Brien]

5 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

This is not a plan.  Minshew may have better  stats, but he is in the same boat as White.  A guy that nobody thinks can be a top half starting QB.  If anybody did they would have decent sized contracts.  There is no reason to tie the entire offense to those 2 guys.  Particularly when there is no reason to beleive that LaFleur was tied to Zach or the problem with his lack of development.  They deserve another chance at molding an actual prospect.

The aim should be to put the strongest available QB on the roster next year. 

We push for Derek Carr in the off-season. If we can't get him, it becomes trickier. Jimmy G is too unreliable, but I'd have . I'd say go for Minshew. No, he's not a top half starting QB, but he's a considerable upgrade on what we currently have. You shouldn't settle for White just because Minshew isn't a top half guy.

By the time we are up to draft another rookie QB, we will know the full picture on LeFleur. Any more games like last week, and he'll be half way out the door anyway, regardless of how you perceive his cupability, or otherwise, on Zach's complete non-development. 

[K_O_Brien]

1 minute ago, K_O_Brien said:

The aim should be to put the strongest available QB on the roster next year. 

We push for Derek Carr in the off-season. If we can't get him, it becomes trickier. Jimmy G is too unreliable, but I'd have no issue bringing him in. Otherwise I'd say go for Minshew. No, he's not a top half starting QB, but he's a considerable upgrade on what we currently have. You shouldn't settle for White just because Minshew isn't a top half guy.

By the time we are up to draft another rookie QB, we will know the full picture on LeFleur. Any more games like last week, and he'll be half way out the door anyway, regardless of how you perceive his cupability, or otherwise, on Zach's complete non-development. 

 

[#27TheDominator]

Just now, K_O_Brien said:

The aim should be to put the strongest available QB on the roster next year. 

We push for Derek Carr in the off-season. If we can't get him, it becomes trickier. Jimmy G is too unreliable, but I'd have . I'd say go for Minshew. No, he's not a top half starting QB, but he's a considerable upgrade on what we currently have. You shouldn't settle for White just because Minshew isn't a top half guy.

By the time we are up to draft another rookie QB, we will know the full picture on LeFleur. Any more games like last week, and he'll be half way out the door anyway, regardless of how you perceive his cupability, or otherwise, on Zach's complete non-development. 

My problem is not with your QB choices.  My problem is with you linking the jobs of the entire offensive staff to having success with 3 questionable starters.  How many coaches has Derek Carr already run through?  Minshew and White have not been considered viable starting QBs at any point as of yet.  These guys have had success with a few sh*tty QBs.  I don't know what went on when they drafted Wilson, but it might very well be that LaFleur deserves more input, rather than less.

[bonkertons]

13 minutes ago, K_O_Brien said:

The aim should be to put the strongest available QB on the roster next year. 

We push for Derek Carr in the off-season. If we can't get him, it becomes trickier. Jimmy G is too unreliable, but I'd have . I'd say go for Minshew. No, he's not a top half starting QB, but he's a considerable upgrade on what we currently have. You shouldn't settle for White just because Minshew isn't a top half guy.

By the time we are up to draft another rookie QB, we will know the full picture on LeFleur. Any more games like last week, and he'll be half way out the door anyway, regardless of how you perceive his cupability, or otherwise, on Zach's complete non-development. 

 

As much as I like White and hope he proves he's the guy the rest of the way this year, my brain keeps going back to Carr as the best/safest option to actually make this offense consistently elite for the next 5 years or so.  The question comes down to what will it cost, though.  From what I've read so far it looks like the Raiders are eyeing a rebuild so I'd imagine they'd be open to dealing Carr if the price is right. 

 

Plus that then buys us another 5 years, maybe more, to find our mid-late round QB who we can develop into the heir apparent.  Obviously this is all assuming Zach isn't the guy, but who knows...I'm definitely rooting for the kid, as unlikeable as he is sometimes.

[K_O_Brien]

1 minute ago, #27TheDominator said:

My problem is not with your QB choices.  My problem is with you linking the jobs of the entire offensive staff to having success with 3 questionable starters.  How many coaches has Derek Carr already run through?  Minshew and White have not been considered viable starting QBs at any point as of yet.  These guys have had success with a few sh*tty QBs.  I don't know what went on when they drafted Wilson, but it might very well be that LaFleur deserves more input, rather than less.

Ok, but if by the 4th or 5th starter, and it's still not working out, then as a coaching staff, you're the problem, not the 4 or 5 guys. Joe Brady was a hot OC name until he couldn't fix Darnold. Then he lost his job. 

If Wilson was even mediocre, I might be inclined to roll the dice again with the same coaching staff. But when the outcome is this bad, the complete evaluation process was obviously an epic failure. Obviously the blame for this extends to Douglas as well. If Zach is immature, aloof and uncoachable, that was on Joe to find out as well. 

If there was a scenario that LeFleur didn't really want Wilson, and preferred someone else, than fair enough, I agree with your input premise. But I doubt that was the case. 

 

[#27TheDominator]

8 minutes ago, K_O_Brien said:

Ok, but if by the 4th or 5th starter, and it's still not working out, then as a coaching staff, you're the problem, not the 4 or 5 guys. Joe Brady was a hot OC name until he couldn't fix Darnold. Then he lost his job. 

If Wilson was even mediocre, I might be inclined to roll the dice again with the same coaching staff. But when the outcome is this bad, the complete evaluation process was obviously an epic failure. Obviously the blame for this extends to Douglas as well. If Zach is immature, aloof and uncoachable, that was on Joe to find out as well. 

If there was a scenario that LeFleur didn't really want Wilson, and preferred someone else, than fair enough, I agree with your input premise. But I doubt that was the case. 

 

4 or 5 guys?  So you are saying Wilson, White, Flacco, Josh Johnson and whoever you get next year?  Carr?  Minshew?  Bah.  Only one of those guys ever had hope of being a franchise guy and we all knew he was raw as **** before we drafted him.  White and Josh Johnson exceeded all expectations.  Flacco was already spent.  He did as much here as Denver and that was years ago.

This is not Trevor Simien, Luke Falk, and Fales with offensive genius Adam Gase.  I give them more rope than that.  This is not a bad offense.  They are mid-pack down and LT, and LT, an RT, an RG, an LT, a stud RB and forced to start a sh*tty QB.  That does not scream time to find a scapegoat to me.  Besides, they have one already.  He is cute and cuddly and blonde. 

[K_O_Brien]

10 minutes ago, bonkertons said:

 

As much as I like White and hope he proves he's the guy the rest of the way this year, my brain keeps going back to Carr as the best/safest option to actually make this offense consistently elite for the next 5 years or so.  The question comes down to what will it cost, though.  From what I've read so far it looks like the Raiders are eyeing a rebuild so I'd imagine they'd be open to dealing Carr if the price is right. 

Plus that then buys us another 5 years, maybe more, to find our mid-late round QB who we can develop into the heir apparent.  Obviously this is all assuming Zach isn't the guy, but who knows...I'm definitely rooting for the kid, as unlikeable as he is sometimes.

If Carr becomes available, and I think he does, we would have to at least show a serious interest. If other teams outbid us, or the cost becomes prohibitive, then we can move on. But we have to at least try. 

Plan B would be a Minshew/Brissett/Huntley type. The ceiling is much lower, but we should still be able to compete for the playoffs. Wilson would also feel like he has a chance of starting against those guys. 

[bonkertons]

1 minute ago, K_O_Brien said:

If Carr becomes available, and I think he does, we would have to at least show a serious interest. If other teams outbid us, or the cost becomes prohibitive, then we can move on. But we have to at least try. 

Plan B would be a Minshew/Brissett/Huntley type. The ceiling is much lower, but we should still be able to compete for the playoffs. Wilson would also feel like he has a chance of starting against those guys. 

I'm thinking the 1st would have to be in play.  Maybe Wilson on top of that, assuming the Raiders would have interest or believe they can turn him around.  Granted I have no idea how the cap works in regards to trades.  Apparently it's not like other sports where you can retain salary, otherwise the team getting a certain player takes on all of their cap.  I believe there would be some dead cap tied to us if we trade Zach, so not sure if that's even an option.

 

I think in an ideal world though if you bring in Carr you have to move Wilson.  Doesn't really do him much good being completely blocked - from 2nd overall to permanent backup.  At least give him a chance to find his game somewhere if we go this route.  IF that happens and the swap is something like our 1st + Wilson (maybe another slight add-on if needed) for Carr, I'd look to bring back White as the backup.  IMO if we're looking to trade for Carr, it probably means White didn't impress to end the year - or at least impress enough to warrant getting a #1 job.  Hopefully that opens up the door for him to come back at a reasonable $$ amount, because I do like the guy and he's at least proven he can hold his own if his number is called.

 

No matter what happens though, this should now be a pretty attractive destination for quality QBs.  Some really talented young weapons on offense, an up-and-coming OL with some budding talent, and a young and hungry D that is only getting better and should be able to keep you in every game.  

[K_O_Brien]

9 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

4 or 5 guys?  So you are saying Wilson, White, Flacco, Josh Johnson and whoever you get next year?  Carr?  Minshew?  Bah.  Only one of those guys ever had hope of being a franchise guy and we all knew he was raw as **** before we drafted him.  White and Josh Johnson exceeded all expectations.  Flacco was already spent.  He did as much here as Denver and that was years ago.

This is not Trevor Simien, Luke Falk, and Fales with offensive genius Adam Gase.  I give them more rope than that.  This is not a bad offense.  They are mid-pack down and LT, and LT, an RT, an RG, an LT, a stud RB and forced to start a sh*tty QB.  That does not scream time to find a scapegoat to me.  Besides, they have one already.  He is cute and cuddly and blonde. 

And when that doesn't work out, they will need to find another one. 

Look, you're right, it's not a bad offense. It's just not good enough to take us to where we want to go. 

So how do we get better? What's your plan then? 

[#27TheDominator]

Just now, K_O_Brien said:

And when that doesn't work out, they will need to find another one. 

Look, you're right, it's not a bad offense. It's just not good enough to take us to where we want to go. 

So how do we get better? What's your plan then? 

I don't disagree with your general plan at QB.  I would try to improve there.  If we can get regular 300 yard games out of Mike White, Aaron Rodgers should be getting 500 per.  I think I would keep stacking the Oline, and RB.  Ye  s, having better personnel is always the goal, but remember, with Breece Hall this offense seemed pretty stout even with Wilson.  They are better everywhere and there is little reason to think they can't keep it up or improve depth for the inevitable injuries.  Last year when people got hurt we curled up in a ball, we are past that stage.

I generally like the idea of a starter and drafting a developmental guy.  Ridder was the one I liked this year.  NFL GMs rarely seem to agree.  That may be that they are time limited or it may be that Mike White is a success story for a developmental QB and most want to run him out of town in the middle of his good run.  Basically, I feel the system is good and just find somebody to run it.  

[K_O_Brien]

4 minutes ago, bonkertons said:

I'm thinking the 1st would have to be in play.  Maybe Wilson on top of that, assuming the Raiders would have interest or believe they can turn him around.  Granted I have no idea how the cap works in regards to trades.  Apparently it's not like other sports where you can retain salary, otherwise the team getting a certain player takes on all of their cap.  I believe there would be some dead cap tied to us if we trade Zach, so not sure if that's even an option.

 

I think in an ideal world though if you bring in Carr you have to move Wilson.  Doesn't really do him much good being completely blocked - from 2nd overall to permanent backup.  At least give him a chance to find his game somewhere if we go this route.  IF that happens and the swap is something like our 1st + Wilson (maybe another slight add-on if needed) for Carr, I'd look to bring back White as the backup.  IMO if we're looking to trade for Carr, it probably means White didn't impress to end the year - or at least impress enough to warrant getting a #1 job.  Hopefully that opens up the door for him to come back at a reasonable $$ amount, because I do like the guy and he's at least proven he can hold his own if his number is called.

 

No matter what happens though, this should now be a pretty attractive destination for quality QBs.  Some really talented young weapons on offense, an up-and-coming OL with some budding talent, and a young and hungry D that is only getting better and should be able to keep you in every game.  

I think Carr only gets dealt by the Raiders if they love a particular rookie (Stroud/Young), so I doubt they would have any interest in Wilson. 

Not sure on the cap hit ramifications either, but if we did sign Carr, realistiically you have to trade Wilson at that point. You keep White as the back up in that scenario. If he feels like he can make more money elsewhere, let him walk. 

The fly in the ointment in all this is the Raiders are on a 3-win streak, likely 4 wins after tonight. We lose on Sunday, they are only a game back in the play-off hunt. If the Raiders squeeze in, they are picking from 18-32 and they can forget about the best 2-3 QBs in the draft. They could keep Carr in this scenario. 

Would agree that for the first time in a long time, the Jets would be as favorable a destination for a big ticket, free agent QB as any team out there. If Carr shakes free, he's more likely pick NYJ as say, the Colts. 

[bonkertons]

4 minutes ago, K_O_Brien said:

I think Carr only gets dealt by the Raiders if they love a particular rookie (Stroud/Young), so I doubt they would have any interest in Wilson. 

Not sure on the cap hit ramifications either, but if we did sign Carr, realistiically you have to trade Wilson at that point. You keep White as the back up in that scenario. If he feels like he can make more money elsewhere, let him walk. 

The fly in the ointment in all this is the Raiders are on a 3-win streak, likely 4 wins after tonight. We lose on Sunday, they are only a game back in the play-off hunt. If the Raiders squeeze in, they are picking from 18-32 and they can forget about the best 2-3 QBs in the draft. They could keep Carr in this scenario. 

Would agree that for the first time in a long time, the Jets would be as favorable a destination for a big ticket, free agent QB as any team out there. If Carr shakes free, he's more likely pick NYJ as say, the Colts. 

 

I think the only negative with us would be weather and, of course, the NY media.  Some QBs might welcome that microscope though, but who knows where Carr would fall on that.  If it's not Carr though I'm not sure who we target.  I'm not big on Jimmy G.  Would rather a short-term option like Brady or Rodgers(if he's available) and look to draft a development QB.  Maybe a kid like McKee if he's there in the 3rd or something.

 

But yeah agreed on them and Zach, unless they just really like the kid.  More likely they draft their own guy.  I just wonder what Zach would even get on the open market.  Apparently we'd have to wait until after June to deal him, otherwise the dead cap would be absurd, so we're probably looking at a pick or picks in 2024.  Maybe a 2nd if there's someone out there that thinks they can turn him into a stud.

[SickJetFan]

12 minutes ago, K_O_Brien said:

I think Carr only gets dealt by the Raiders if they love a particular rookie (Stroud/Young), so I doubt they would have any interest in Wilson. 

Not sure on the cap hit ramifications either, but if we did sign Carr, realistiically you have to trade Wilson at that point. You keep White as the back up in that scenario. If he feels like he can make more money elsewhere, let him walk. 

The fly in the ointment in all this is the Raiders are on a 3-win streak, likely 4 wins after tonight. We lose on Sunday, they are only a game back in the play-off hunt. If the Raiders squeeze in, they are picking from 18-32 and they can forget about the best 2-3 QBs in the draft. They could keep Carr in this scenario. 

Would agree that for the first time in a long time, the Jets would be as favorable a destination for a big ticket, free agent QB as any team out there. If Carr shakes free, he's more likely pick NYJ as say, the Colts. 

Wilson and Raiders would from outside be benefit to both.  BYU is stone throw away from LV and Zach has big fan base out there so more fans in stadium.

Not that I think would happen but if it did it would probably be dream job for team wilson.

[K_O_Brien]

7 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

I don't disagree with your general plan at QB.  I would try to improve there.  If we can get regular 300 yard games out of Mike White, Aaron Rodgers should be getting 500 per.  I think I would keep stacking the Oline, and RB.  Ye  s, having better personnel is always the goal, but remember, with Breece Hall this offense seemed pretty stout even with Wilson.  They are better everywhere and there is little reason to think they can't keep it up or improve depth for the inevitable injuries.  Last year when people got hurt we curled up in a ball, we are past that stage.

I generally like the idea of a starter and drafting a developmental guy.  Ridder was the one I liked this year.  NFL GMs rarely seem to agree.  That may be that they are time limited or it may be that Mike White is a success story for a developmental QB and most want to run him out of town in the middle of his good run.  Basically, I feel the system is good and just find somebody to run it.  

We are close, but without the QB, you are kinda relying on everything else to be perfect. The D has to be excellent every week. Maybe they can, but its a lot to ask. The running game has to be working. And they looked potentially great, until we lost Hall and AVT. It hasn't been the same since. The team hasn't been the same since. 

The ceiling for a team like the Jets, is much lower than the team with the top half QB. The Chargers have been a complete cluster**** all year, but because they have Herbert, they're only a game back. Our coaching, our D, our special teams, everything needs to be so much better just to stay ahead.

We can't find a Herbert any time soon, but we should be looking to improve on what we have. 

Drafting a developmental QB should be a consideration, but as you say, it doesn't seem to be a thing anymore. It's not the road I would take, but if we drafted Anthony Richardson in the second round, I wouldn't completely hate it. 

 

 

 

 

[K_O_Brien]

17 minutes ago, bonkertons said:

 

I think the only negative with us would be weather and, of course, the NY media.  Some QBs might welcome that microscope though, but who knows where Carr would fall on that.  If it's not Carr though I'm not sure who we target.  I'm not big on Jimmy G.  Would rather a short-term option like Brady or Rodgers(if he's available) and look to draft a development QB.  Maybe a kid like McKee if he's there in the 3rd or something.

 

But yeah agreed on them and Zach, unless they just really like the kid.  More likely they draft their own guy.  I just wonder what Zach would even get on the open market.  Apparently we'd have to wait until after June to deal him, otherwise the dead cap would be absurd, so we're probably looking at a pick or picks in 2024.  Maybe a 2nd if there's someone out there that thinks they can turn him into a stud.

Carr at 32 (heading into next season), is about as old as I'd go. He doesn't rely on his mobility like Russell Wilson so you could still potentially get 3 good years out of him. Rodgers has checked out and I can't even imagine Brady in a Jets uniform.

Not sure what you'd get for Wilson at this point? But like Darnold, Douglas would set a value, and if no one reached it, Wilson would stay. Douglas wouldn't write him off as a sunk cost just for the sake of it. 

[bonkertons]

1 minute ago, K_O_Brien said:

Carr at 32 (heading into next season), is about as old as I'd go. He doesn't rely on his mobility like Russell Wilson so you could still potentially get 3 good years out of him. Rodgers has checked out and I can't even imagine Brady in a Jets uniform.

Not sure what you'd get for Wilson at this point? But like Darnold, Douglas would set a value, and if no one reached it, Wilson would stay. Douglas wouldn't write him off as a sunk cost just for the sake of it. 

 

I don't think so either.  I think you get some value, be it a 2nd, 3rd, or some combo of picks in that range - or you hang onto him for another year.  After 2023-24 he's a little easier to trade, and you should have a better idea of what he is at that point.  Still hoping he makes this easy for us and becomes the guy, or at least shows signs of life.  That was the thing with Darnold - he had those moments where you'd think "OK I see the upside" which made the bad a lot easier to live with.  Zach hasn't really done that yet.  His best games are mostly just him not making mistakes, not him taking over games(as you'd expect/hope a 2nd overall pick would do).  

 

But yeah, long story short I don't give Zach away either.  Either we get value or he stays, for another year at least. 

[K_O_Brien]

1 minute ago, bonkertons said:

 

I don't think so either.  I think you get some value, be it a 2nd, 3rd, or some combo of picks in that range - or you hang onto him for another year.  After 2023-24 he's a little easier to trade, and you should have a better idea of what he is at that point.  Still hoping he makes this easy for us and becomes the guy, or at least shows signs of life.  That was the thing with Darnold - he had those moments where you'd think "OK I see the upside" which made the bad a lot easier to live with.  Zach hasn't really done that yet.  His best games are mostly just him not making mistakes, not him taking over games(as you'd expect/hope a 2nd overall pick would do).  

But yeah, long story short I don't give Zach away either.  Either we get value or he stays, for another year at least. 

I think Zach is likely done here. He's just a bad fit in New York (the team, the system, the media and the city). Have no idea why we drafted him to play in the offensive system we do and used the number 2 overall pick in the draft to do so. 

It's a pity he didn't tell Connor Hughes to go and play with himself, instead of giving the answer he did, but this was all destined to end up in tears anyway. That particular melt-down has just fast-tracked this process. Ultimately he wasn't good enough to handle the pressure, on and off the field.

Whether other teams figure he can be salvaged is another debate. 

[#27TheDominator]

I think it is odd how you guys are discussing this.  The cap hit of bringing Carr on sort of makes it harder to move WIlson.  Trading Wilson accelerates his bonus money which is all spread out right now and he had a decent amount of bonus. 

Carr will take a pick and cost a decent amount of money.  Carr is getting $33M for 2023 and $41M for 2024 and 2025.  I am certainly not spitting up a first for the privilege of paying Carr that much scratch.  I am not sure if you noticed, but people were looking to cut Corey Davis and Carl Lawson so that we are able to sign our draft picks.  I don't think Carr's deal is guaranteed, but he would probably want some of it guaranteed to be happy about coming over.  

You also can't sit around going oh yeah, I'd keep White around.  White is no longer the cheap money.  He will probably be getting a multi-year deal of at least $5M-$10M per.  Wilson has a fairly low salary and a ton of bonus money that we already paid.  It will actually cost $11M more to move on from Wilson than to plant him on the bench.  How much is a draft pick worth?  For a high pick maybe, but I don't think a 4th rounder is worth $11M.

We all want to improve at every position, but there is more to who is playing QB than a simple decision of who is best under center.  Carr just got his bud Davante Adams over there. Locking up $40M on Carr will be horrific if he does not play well.  If White keeps playing well we may end up in a situation like the 2015-2016 offseason.  They ****ed that up royally.  I sure hope they do better this time.

[Sonny Werblin]

4 hours ago, OtherwiseHappyinLife said:

Respectfully … are you in NFL circles?  Many here are taking a wait and see approach but understand the cost might skyrocket if we wait too long.  

I asked you the other day what is your definition of a FQB?  An elite top 10 QB?  Where exactly are we going to find one, and how long are you planning to wait, how much risk are you willing to take and how much are you willing to pay?

Here is the rub  … the Jets are a win now team that is one of the tightest in the NFL against next year’s cap.  They can’t afford a FQB in the top 10 mold without trading significant assets (incl existing players).  It’s just not in the realm of possibility.

So let’s debate rather than throwing out narratives.  What’s your plan?

 

I already shared my plan. Draft C, LT, FS and sign 

[SickJetFan]

17 hours ago, JetBlue said:

Sorry you need to add another TE possibly from the draft.  Hopefully Ruckert gets an opportunity but both Conklin and Uzomah are basically JAGS with little if any upside.   We need to add another young TE unless they are sold on Yeboah.

I am also looking at quarterback in either FA, trade or draft (even if its developmental, depending on who is available).   I am not completely sold on Mike White long term and a little competition can't hurt.   I look at a guy like Jordan Love or a Malik Willis.  If we could get someone like that in the 2nd - 3rd rounds, who could sit a year or so (kind of like Jalen Hurts with Philly) I would strongly consider it. 

Draft a receiver with SIZE (and preferably speed), to compliment Wilson and Moore.   I wonder if  the 6'4 Irv Charles is in their plans as a developmental receiver....  

I would also seek to add a more dynamic punt/kick returner in the middle to late rounds of the draft.  We must continue to upgrade this roster and not get satisfied with certain players.   The more playmakers, the better.   

Also I am not so sure I want to totally disrupt the offensive line.  There is something to be said for continuity.   Definitely draft a Center high, and perhaps another  G or T.   (Depending on how Becton is progressing prior to the draft).  

We definitely need a stud LB. In fact I could see us taking one with our 1st round pick assuming that is best value at the time of selection.  

speaking of Irv Charles.  2 players I wanted to see make the final 53 after pre season were Irv Charles and Bam so I have been keeping an eye out for them both.  One thing I watch/notice is the Jets Web site does galleries of the practices during week and before Bam was active for game you start seeing him in those galleries.  Now I know the camera guy has no idea here and probably just random pics but I have noticed last 2 weeks Charles has had a pic..In today's gallery he is there 2x.

Now because it is random the more you see of a player means more opps they getting in practice.  He may never see another game until next pre season but you never know.

 

[Sperm Edwards]

16 hours ago, Dax89 said:

On the DE situation I think you put Huff as a 2nd round tender RFA, which if Google is correct is a $4.3 million cap hit if nobody takes takes him off tender.  If Huff stays you cut Lawson, if Huff is claimed then you keep him.  I think Lawson is playing up to his contact but with the amount of young talent we have at the position he's expendable.  If someone picks up Huff and gives us a 2nd that's also a big win.

Davis comes down to if Mims plays well down the stretch.  Davis is worth what he's paid IMO but if Mims could can be competent at the position we could use the cap space.  If we do trust Mims to handle it I think we pick up another big bodied WR in the 3rd or 4th to develop.  

Somehow I forgot to include Huff, who's easily the team's best outside rusher. Brain fart lol.

Anyway it only makes that decision re Lawson easier. 

[clayton163v]

On 12/1/2022 at 10:14 AM, OtherwiseHappyinLife said:

 

I have been meaning to respond to this thread.  First, thanks for the thoughtful post.  I enjoyed it:

I started the year stating JD had done an excellent job stripping us bare in order to build a strong foundation for the long term.  My prediction was 8-9 wins.

That was my upside.  I thought we were destined for 5-8 wins.  I thought we were on the upswing but had too many OL and QB injuries to start the season.  From old man Brown to Mitchell to Herbig.  We kept getting heroic performances from the bench and here we are.  Yes, that includes Mike White. 

We will likely exceed expectations because we NAILED the 2022 draft … a culmination of moves JD made in years past at the expense of some meaningless wins.

We’ll enjoy the rest of 2022 but with an eye on making this a championship caliber squad entering 2023.

Interested in your thoughts..  here are mine as a baseline.  Keep in mind that the Jets will be fairly tight against the cap.

————————————————

QB:  TBD but as long as White shows he is a great fit for this quick passing system, I re-sign him to a 1-3 year deal at an average starting QB salary.  Let Zach compete for the job in 2013 and re-up Streveler if you believe he has upside to assume the back-up spot

I see two scenarios and they depend on Mike White.  If Mike drives us to the playoffs and we win a game or two, then he is the starter.  We will ride him and sign him.  I believe we will trade Zack to recover $ and picks while he has some value.  In that case we will sign a viable starter looking for an opportunity - hello Gardner Minshew - and draft a late round QB.

If Mike White does not continue his efficient play and/or we fail to win.  Then I believe that the Jets will retain Zack - who will remain glued to the bench this year - and draft a second tier QB.  Perhaps in the first round depending on what is available.   Richardson, McKee, etc.  Then White, Zack and the draft pick will duke it out alongside a viable starter like Minshew.  Then somebody gets cut or traded at the end of training camp.

I obviously prefer the first scenario and predict it.  Nevertheless, like Coach Saleh says "you have to win your individual matchups".  You know you have a good coach when you start to quote him.   

RB:  No action

Me too.  However, I leave a little room.  Draft boards continue to show Robinson dropping to our pick (every time).  He is a top 10 guy.  Cannot pass it.  Will not happen though. 

WR:  Draft round 1 to give White another dynamic receiving option.  Waive the oft injured Davis ($10M we’ll need)

We will take a WR in the first or second.  There is a nice second tier.  Smaller lighter guys.  If they can beat the jam, who cares?  The only way we do not is a trade back in the first and then up in the second.  See below.

TE:  No action

Me too.  The contract's obligate us for next season and we have four promising tight ends. 

OL:  Re-sign Herbig to start at center.  A warm Goodbye to McGovern, Fant & Feeney.  Draft a 4th tackle in middle rounds.  Draft Center in round 3 as backup to Herbig and as future starter when Herbig shifts back to guard and we let Tomlinson walk in 2024.  Re-sign LDT

I love this idea.  I also agree that we should look to add a tackle and center.  We will get one of the quality center/guard candidates with our 3d round pick if not our 4th.  There are several good candidates.  

I disagree on when to pick an OT.  Last year was historic, this year there are like five starting OTs.  Worse, they are not perfect.  Both Paris Johnson and Peter Skoronski are 6' 4" and have short arms.  They may be guards.  Very good guards but guards nonetheless.  If the Jets intend to target OT, it will have to be in the first round or early in the second.  By OUR 2d round pick, the starters will be gone.  That means a trade up. 

The Jets need a viable young starter candidate at LT.  Mitchell might be the guy.  He might not.  Brown is 37.  Becton is a question mark.  Fant will not be back (though he is welcome, we have to make choices).  Starter candidates at LT are costly.  This year we hoped Becton would return and Fant would be all the way back.  We got saved by old man Brown.  It has been beautiful.  But it involved luck.  Not that I would give back Sauce or Garrett Wilson.  But we must make the costly investment or get caught without.  Did you see Quisenberry with the Bills . . .   Like QB, until you have a LT you have to keep taking them.

Edge:  Waive Lawson ($15M we’ll need).  Sign Huff to a first round restricted tender @ ~$5M; we cannot lose him for anything less

Agreed.  We have to make choices.  Lawson is not an every down starter.  He is more of a pass rush specialist like Huff.  And Huff has earned a raise and retention.  His plays have been clutch.  Otherwise I see us solid at edge.  It opens up a spot for a later round guy.  There are a few good candidates.  We could also take an inside/out guy with DT crossover that JD likes.  I see this as likely. 

DT:  Exercise 5th year option on Q; caution on doling out huge contract after 1 big year.  Upgrade the much improved but injury plagued Rankins (going back to his time with Saints).  Draft depth later rounds

I pay Q.  If we can do it with a three year deal.  Hooray.  If not, throw him the bag.  None of this Leo sh*t. 

I too see DT in the Jets future.  But I see a high pick.  Why?  This year's draft has a good crop and it is a good fit.  Even if we retain Rankins, somebody could challenge Shepard.  Also Curry lines up at DT.  These fine players are getting long in the tooth.  There is a place for a solid young DT.  My early read shows a good crop of DTs who will not last until our 2d round pick.  We would have to move up to get our man imo.  But I see Joe Douglas targeting this spot from a team building standpoint.

LB:  Keep Mosley but ask for a pay cut from $17m salary to $10M.  Otherwise, numbers will likely not work given cap situation and desire not to push too many dollars to future years.  Re-sign Quincy (partly as leverage because he’s Quinnen’s brother).  If possible, bring back Kwon on a reasonable deal.  Draft MLB middle rounds to compete with Sherwood in 2024 when CJ is likely waived due to cost

I have done a 180 on our linebackers.  I had thought we could surely upgrade a spot.  Alexander has played so well - he is the coverage linebacker - you know when he screws up.  This guy must be retained or we are not serious.  The Jets MUST PAY FOR PERFORMANCE.  We reworked Mosely's deal.  That says we will retain him.  Quincy sets the tone and plays exactly the way Saleh wants it done.  Sherwood is healthy and cannot get a job.  

Unless Trenton Simpson is there with our #1, I cannot see a linebacker early.  We will take somebody late.  They will be there.

CB:  No action

Me too.  Unless we are able to trade Hall for decent value, I stand pat. We have five guys.

Safety:  Upgrade Joyner by drafting FS in round 2.  Draft SS depth later rounds

I have done a 180 here too.  Our safeties have played well and we have other priorities.  I am wary of drafting safeties early.  Like tight end, college does not generate the right kind of player for the NFL.  You have to sort guys to find one.  Lots of busts.  It is hard to see whether the safety can tackle and cover NFL talent from college film.  I would rather sign free agents and later round players.  I save the first and second round picks for chess pieces (QB, OT, Edge, DT, WR). 

Shocked to even think this but this roster looks like it could make a deep run, contingent on White proving he’s the guy or otherwise acquiring a capable average starter that’s a system fit.

Despite last week's loss, I continue to believe that we are contenders right now.  Contenders for the crown.  And I never thought we had any chance of coming back on the Vikings with the score 20-3.  Yet I would have said the same thing at the half.   I am telling you fellas, this team is better than they think.  

 

 

[Sperm Edwards]

5 hours ago, bonkertons said:

 

I agree with all.  Cut Lawson, keep JFM, keep Rankins(if possible), and keep Davis.  I think if you cut Davis you'll have to replace him with another veteran who will probably make similar or even more money.  Davis is good for what he brings.

 

Can even look to cut Tomlinson and/or Brown as well, which is about another $23M free with about $5.5M in dead cap.  I'd also obviously look to restructure Mosley if we keep him around.

 

I think there's a decent amount of wiggle room with the cap, and players we can move on from who shouldn't really make or break us.  Can look to replace them through the draft or with cheaper options.  Find ways to pay our big guys like Quinnen and possibly White(or another QB).

From my standpoint, don't worry about the dead cap. People obsess over it unnecessarily (for players without future guaranteed $ being part of it). Not that any of us are the ones actually making these decisions, lol.

Focus on how much more - how much new money - they'd have to pay to keep him. That's the killer; not whether past money paid is hitting all in '23, spread between '23-24, or spread out even more. They can always get around an accelerated hit for a cut player by spreading out someone else instead (someone who'll be on the team for 2-3 yrs or more).

It looks worse than it actually is. In practice, that dead cap is hitting no matter what. It doesn't make it better to pay that person an additional $15MM (e.g. LT3 $13MM, Mosley $17MM) if you don't think the player is worth that much anymore.

The way I look at it is this: if the player was a FA after the season, and you could tack on 1 more year at his current, upcoming rate, would you do it?

My answer for these 3 overpriced players would be 100% no:

• $17MM Mosley
• $15MM Lawson
• $13MM Tomlinson

Not when the team has to soon put up ($) or shut up on these guys I think the team and/or fans would like to retain:

• QW1 extension (could easily reach/exceed $25MM/yr; technically they don't have to do this right away)
• QW2 (really I have no idea what it'd take to keep him)
• Herbig ($8-10MM/yr? more? less? I don't know)
• McGovern ($11-12MM/yr?)
• Mike White (too early to even say what he'd be; only thing concretely known is the FT is just over $30MM, though I don't think that'll happen unless he's wearing a SB MVP ring in Feb). 
• Davis (though I think his $10.5MM for '23 looks worse than it is because of a combination of his midseason injury, Wilson sucking, and the other two starters not being injured; if one of Wilson or Moore gets hurt during a playoff run next year we'll curse letting Davis go).  

Plus either re-up or replace / what do to with regard to:

• Brown ($9MM to keep at age 38)
• Fant (UFA)
• Rankins (UFA, though I think they're going to just let him go unless he's cheap again)
• Kwon (UFA; see Rankins. Got really lucky with him injury-wise this yr. Take the $ and run?)
• and LOTS more backup/role players (26 FAs next year; >20 of whom you've actually heard of lol)

[VJphillyfan]

I don’t think it’s entirely a done deal Carr is cut by the raiders and McDaniels.  He’s been playing better recently 

[Dax89]

On 12/8/2022 at 7:59 AM, WhartonJet said:

I would not be happy losing Huff for a 2nd round pick.  He is too valuable

If you can get a 2nd round pick for 1 year of (admittedly very good) rotational pass rusher you'd be crazy not to consider that a huge win.

[VJphillyfan]

20 hours ago, #27TheDominator said:

I think it is odd how you guys are discussing this.  The cap hit of bringing Carr on sort of makes it harder to move WIlson.  Trading Wilson accelerates his bonus money which is all spread out right now and he had a decent amount of bonus. 

Carr will take a pick and cost a decent amount of money.  Carr is getting $33M for 2023 and $41M for 2024 and 2025.  I am certainly not spitting up a first for the privilege of paying Carr that much scratch.  I am not sure if you noticed, but people were looking to cut Corey Davis and Carl Lawson so that we are able to sign our draft picks.  I don't think Carr's deal is guaranteed, but he would probably want some of it guaranteed to be happy about coming over.  

You also can't sit around going oh yeah, I'd keep White around.  White is no longer the cheap money.  He will probably be getting a multi-year deal of at least $5M-$10M per.  Wilson has a fairly low salary and a ton of bonus money that we already paid.  It will actually cost $11M more to move on from Wilson than to plant him on the bench.  How much is a draft pick worth?  For a high pick maybe, but I don't think a 4th rounder is worth $11M.

We all want to improve at every position, but there is more to who is playing QB than a simple decision of who is best under center.  Carr just got his bud Davante Adams over there. Locking up $40M on Carr will be horrific if he does not play well.  If White keeps playing well we may end up in a situation like the 2015-2016 offseason.  They ****ed that up royally.  I sure hope they do better this time.

No need to trade Wilson he can sit o the bench as a third string which is where he belonfs

 

 we have to sign a QB like Carr if White isn’t the guy.  Even if white is the guy we still need to sign a decent backup like Brissett

[Alka]

On 12/1/2022 at 10:31 AM, Maxman said:

I think that 1st round pick might be on the offensive line.

 

I would have to agree with you here. Duane Brown is playing through a bad shoulder (remember), and has elected not to get surgery so he could play out this year.  He will also be 38 years old next season.  I would personally like to see AVT as our starting left tackle (he proved he can play tackle at a high level), and keep Brown as a back-up. Max at right tackle, and Mecki as his backup (assuming he is healthy).  Herbig at right guard, and Tomlinson at left guard.  If we let McGovern go, then we will need a center.  If you put Herbig at center, and put back AVT at right guard, then we will need a left tackle.  I just don't think we can go into the start of next season with Duane Brown as your starting left tackle. Either way, as JD has said, the O line is a priority, and the Jets will need a top player/prospect to solidify the line for next season.  With Max Mitchell and his clot issues, and Duane Brown and his shoulder/age, and releasing both McGovern and Fant, I just don't see how the Jets could not draft a top offensive lineman in the first round next year.

[greenwichjetfan]

On 12/5/2022 at 4:01 PM, Sperm Edwards said:

100% -- and yesterday was another s**t game from him.

 

Mosley gifted them 7 on a mental mistake. Undrafted rookie status.. And we have folks clamoring to retain him. 

[VJphillyfan]

On 12/11/2022 at 3:14 PM, greenwichjetfan said:

Mosley gifted them 7 on a mental mistake. Undrafted rookie status.. And we have folks clamoring to retain him. 

What a moronic penalty. 

[SickJetFan]

 

[TNJet]

round 1: Draft the best LT available thats not fat, lazy, and injury prone.

round 2: Draft the best QB available (Hendon Hooker) to compete with Mike White (Wilson traded to Browns for a 4th)

round 3: Draft the best available safety comparable to Marcus Maye to replace Joyner.

Hire a better offensive coordinator that get us more redzone tds. 

We win the Superbowl after this.

You're welcome JD.

[Rangers9]

Well Lamar is a UFA next season. Right now he’s making 23. But he’ll want a lot more. Not sure Woody would want to pay him. But if we’re looking to make changes why not start at the top. 

[Maynard13]

On 12/1/2022 at 10:14 AM, OtherwiseHappyinLife said:

I’ve been wrong on plenty of things (Ulbrich, drafting Zach, the ‘cool shirt’ I recently purchased for a family trip)… but I started the year stating JD had done an excellent job stripping us bare in order to build a strong foundation for the long term.  My prediction was 8-9 wins.

We will likely exceed expectations because we NAILED the 2022 draft … a culmination of moves JD made in years past at the expense of some meaningless wins.

We’ll enjoy the rest of 2022 but with an eye on making this a championship caliber squad entering 2023.

Interested in your thoughts..  here are mine as a baseline.  Keep in mind that the Jets will be fairly tight against the cap.

————————————————

QB:  TBD but as long as White shows he is a great fit for this quick passing system, I re-sign him to a 1-3 year deal at an average starting QB salary.  Let Zach compete for the job in 2013 and re-up Streveler if you believe he has upside to assume the back-up spot

RB:  No action

WR:  Draft round 1 to give White another dynamic receiving option.  Waive the oft injured Davis ($10M we’ll need)

TE:  No action

OL:  Re-sign Herbig to start at center.  A warm Goodbye to McGovern, Fant & Feeney.  Draft a 4th tackle in middle rounds.  Draft Center in round 3 as backup to Herbig and as future starter when Herbig shifts back to guard and we let Tomlinson walk in 2024.  Re-sign LDT

Edge:  Waive Lawson ($15M we’ll need).  Sign Huff to a first round restricted tender @ ~$5M; we cannot lose him for anything less

DT:  Exercise 5th year option on Q; caution on doling out huge contract after 1 big year.  Upgrade the much improved but injury plagued Rankins (going back to his time with Saints).  Draft depth later rounds

LB:  Keep Mosley but ask for a pay cut from $17m salary to $10M.  Otherwise, numbers will likely not work given cap situation and desire not to push too many dollars to future years.  Re-sign Quincy (partly as leverage because he’s Quinnen’s brother).  If possible, bring back Kwon on a reasonable deal.  Draft MLB middle rounds to compete with Sherwood in 2024 when CJ is likely waived due to cost

CB:  No action

Safety:  Upgrade Joyner by drafting FS in round 2.  Draft SS depth later rounds

Shocked to even think this but this roster looks like it could make a deep run, contingent on White proving he’s the guy or otherwise acquiring a capable average starter that’s a system fit.

—————————————————————

QB:  White

WR1:  Wilson  (Pro Bowl potential)

WR2:  1st Round

Slot:  Moore/Berrios

RB1:  Breece  (All Pro potential)

RB2:  Carter or Knight

TE1:  Conklin

TE2:  Uzomah

LT:  Brown

LG:  Tomlinson

Center:  Herbig

RG:  AVT  (All Pro potential)

RT:  Mitchell

 

Edge:  JFM/Huff  (Huff 10+ sack potential)

DT:  Free Agent upgrade / JFM

DT:  Q  (All Pro Pro potential)

Edge:  Johnson/Clemons

LB:  CJ, Quincy Williams, Kwon or Sherwood

CB:  Sauce  (All Pro potential)

CB:  DJ  (Pro Bowl potential)

Slot:  Carter II

FS:  Round 2

SS:  Whitehead

Pay me and I will reveal the touches. 

[Maynard13]

51 minutes ago, Rangers9 said:

Well Lamar is a UFA next season. Right now he’s making 23. But he’ll want a lot more. Not sure Woody would want to pay him. But if we’re looking to make changes why not start at the top. 

Because he's a RB playing QB. Like Phil Simms says, 'No one gets faster with age.".