For everyone calling for Jimmy G/Rodgers/Carr/other big name vet...

[K_O_Brien]

9 minutes ago, Flea Flicking Frank said:

Does anyone actually think Garrapolo, Carr, Minshew, are any better than Mike White? And furthermore, none of those guys including White make the Jets a legit SB contender, and are nothing more than a stop gap and hoping to squeak into the playoffs as a 6th seed.

 

Garappolo/Carr/Minshew may or may not turn the Jets into a legit SB contender, but all three are significantly better than either White or Wilson. 

If you're Douglas, you can keep Wilson but would need to cut bait with the OC, because they are a horrible fit together. If you're higher on the OC, keep him and bring on one of those veteran QB guys. 

The maverick move by Douglas is you move on from both Wilson and LeFleur. Accept your window is now. Bring in a experienced OC and the veteran QB. 

 

[jgb]

1 hour ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Yes or no:  You want to trade heavy assets for Carr and pay him $40M a year?

If he's so good why are Raiders fans on board with moving him?

I’m with you but invoking Raiders fans’ feelings to support a football decision?

Well, allow me to retort: 

@Raideraholic

[VJphillyfan]

1 hour ago, BigRy56 said:

The answer is clear when we are talking about upgrading the QB position in the offseason - if you put Lamar Jackson on this team, we are looking at a division title next year and contention for a Superbowl year in and year out.

Would cost multiple first round picks plus a huge contract.  Also, he already has a lot of mileage as a running qb

[Barry McCockinner]

@Jetsfan80 seems like the only way the Jets can reasonably dump Wilson is if they find a trade partner and designate post June 1. Not sure I'm reading this correctly though.

https://overthecap.com/player/zach-wilson/9466

who is trading for this guy?

Assuming he can't be traded, are you willing to go into 2023 with Mike White as the projected starter and ZW being one hit away from the starter? I don't like the idea and I don't think we're paying Mike White & Minshew (or whoever) plus Wilson.

[VJphillyfan]

1 hour ago, Barry McCockinner said:

Derek Carr has over 35K passing yards and 200 passing TDs. Mike White gets injured every time he plays football. They are no where near basically the same.

Relying on White as the 2023 starter would be more foolish than relying on Becton to be the starting LT.

I like white he’s clearly our best qb by far but he can’t stay healthy. 

[Flea Flicking Frank]

54 minutes ago, K_O_Brien said:

Garappolo/Carr/Minshew may or may not turn the Jets into a legit SB contender, but all three are significantly better than either White or Wilson. 

If you're Douglas, you can keep Wilson but would need to cut bait with the OC, because they are a horrible fit together. If you're higher on the OC, keep him and bring on one of those veteran QB guys. 

The maverick move by Douglas is you move on from both Wilson and LeFleur. Accept your window is now. Bring in a experienced OC and the veteran QB. 

 

Not sure any of the 3 are clearly better than White, maybe.

I would get rid of LaFleur, and try to bring in someone who is a proven commodity with the QB position. Overpay them if you have to, even go so far as if its a HC, I would even replace Saleh if needed to bring that person in. If they are in the FO, fine, if they are a HC fine, if they are an OC, fine, but I am tired of having people who don't know what they are doing picking QB's and trying to develop them and it failing.

Get someone in this building who knows what they are doing, its that simple, but we refuse to do it. When Andy Reid was available, we absolutely should have done it. Colossal mistake we made.

[hmhertz]

The only FA I want is Geno Smith if the Seahawks foolishly can't

come to an agreement with him. Jimmy G is an oft injured interception machine.

Rodgers is an aging low life blame everyone but himself has been. I'd rather

play with F'ing Mike White and spend a deuce in every draft until we hit on

our own Jalen Hurts

[Barry McCockinner]

10 minutes ago, Flea Flicking Frank said:

Not sure any of the 3 are clearly better than White, maybe.

It's not hard.

Derek Carr is demonstrably better than Mike White. He has over 35K passing yards, over 200 TDs and a better than 2:1 TD/INT ratio and rarely misses a game. Carr threw for nearly 5K last year with Ruggs as his #1 WR. Mike White has started 6 games, got injured in three and has less than 2k yards, 8 TDs and 10 INTs.

Carr is far and away the better option from a pure football pov. If you want to argue the value of trade & cap space, that's a different discussion but to say it's not clear Carr is better is beyond silly. I mean c'mon.

Carr makes us a legit superbowl contender w/AVT, Becton & Hall coming back.

[FTL Jet Fan]

8 hours ago, jgb said:

Straight swap, Daboll probably believes he could rehab BYU… if anyone can it would be him.

Unfortunately we know how that will turn out. NYJ.

[jgb]

1 minute ago, FTL Jet Fan said:

Unfortunately we know how that will turn out. NYJ.

Risk you take when you move on but the NPV of moving on is higher than the opportunity cost of not at present.

[football guy]

2 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

@football guy

It won’t happen nor do I think it is likely but it’s something that personally peaked my interest. I think it’ll be Zach, White, and a rookie in an open competition 

[Flea Flicking Frank]

8 minutes ago, Barry McCockinner said:

It's not hard.

Derek Carr is demonstrably better than Mike White. He has over 35K passing yards, over 200 TDs and a better than 2:1 TD/INT ratio and rarely misses a game. Carr threw for nearly 5K last year with Ruggs as his #1 WR. Mike White has started 6 games, got injured in three and has less than 2k yards, 8 TDs and 10 INTs.

Carr is far and away the better option from a pure football pov. If you want to argue the value of trade & cap space, that's a different discussion but to say it's not clear Carr is better is beyond silly. I mean c'mon.

Carr makes us a legit superbowl contender w/AVT, Becton & Hall coming back.

Historically, that is fair. Carr is the one guy who may be good enough to take the Jets to the right level under the right circumstances. I do worry that we are getting a Russ Wilson type guy who comes here and is a shell of what he was or even worse, but historically he is clearly better than what you can even hope White could be

[Yeetin It]

17 hours ago, Zachtomims47 said:

Why are some discussing Carr like he’s a FA. You’d have to trade for him. Don’t see the Raiders just cutting him. 

Big NFL rumor linking them to Brady. Brady will probably want one last big payday so it’s possible they might.

I don’t know that Carr has ever elevated his team though and had 1-3 disastrous games per season. If he were a bit younger then maybe, but I don’t think he’s going to be worth his asking price. If they can get him for a steal, I might feel better

[FTL Jet Fan]

9 minutes ago, jgb said:

Risk you take when you move on but the NPV of moving on is higher than the opportunity cost of not at present.

[Yeetin It]

30 minutes ago, hmhertz said:

The only FA I want is Geno Smith if the Seahawks foolishly can't

Geno is coming back to earth. And if the Jets bring him back and he’s bad, they once again go back to being the laughing stock of the NFL.

I don’t know that he’d even sign considering how badly he was thrown under the bus last time he was on this team

[SCRUNO]

There are no magic fixes out there. White isn't a #1 QB. If we wanted a QB that would fit MLF's scheme, why didn't we just draft Mac Jones.
Maybe Zach's balls drop over the summer, grows a pornstache,  and learns how to play football.

[Barry McCockinner]

1 minute ago, Yeetin It said:

Geno is coming back to earth. And if the Jets bring him back and he’s bad, they once again to back to being the laughing stock of the NFL.

I don’t know that he’d even sign considering how badly he was thrown under the bus last time he was on this team

I can't imagine going after a Seahawks QB after what happened to the Broncos this year. ?

[choon328]

4 hours ago, BCJet said:

Couldnt agree more, he fits perfectly into what this organization wants out of their QB.  He also like will be affordable, not cheap, but affordable.  I also dont see how people think Derek Carr at $25+ million is a better option then Minshew at about $10/year.

Gardner Minshew was available for a trade in 2021 ans was traded for a 6th rd pick. If any team since then offered more then that to the Eagles they would've taken it. If teams thought he was starting caliber, he wouldn't be backing up Jalen Hurts right now, he'd be on another team playing. 

[Adoni Beast]

42 minutes ago, football guy said:

It won’t happen nor do I think it is likely but it’s something that personally peaked my interest. I think it’ll be Zach, White, and a rookie in an open competition 

That seems the most likely scenario. Under this setup one would have to assume that the NYJ go out and hire whatever veteran-proven QB guru/passing game coordinator/QB coach specialist title that Knapp was originally going to be.

I don't think it's a slight on MLF or Calabrese but at this point a damn necessity. This year proved that those two did not have Zack Wilson ready with a balance of mechanics + playbook absorption + reading defenses. It's a lot I get it, but they need to invest in someone proven to fill whatever gap there is not just for Zack but whatever rookie is coming on board and White.

[Yeetin It]

19 minutes ago, choon328 said:

Gardner Minshew was available for a trade in 2021 ans was traded for a 6th rd pick. If any team since then offered more then that to the Eagles they would've taken it. If teams thought he was starting caliber, he wouldn't be backing up Jalen Hurts right now, he'd be on another team playing. 

I think it depends. Surely he’s better than Flacco. So if the plan next year is let White walk, see if there is any growth with Wilson, and still have a backup QB who can win you games, then he might be worth a shot. I just don’t get very excited about the prospects of overpaying for Carr or Garoppolo, who are older average QBs. I wouldn’t be that upset if they made a move like this and then drafted another QB next year

[SomebodytoAnybody47]

 

Minshew time!!

[Barry McCockinner]

2 minutes ago, Zachtomims47 said:

 

Minshew time!!

It will be good to see him try out for the Jets with playoff seeding on the line.

[Jetsfan80]

4 hours ago, Barry McCockinner said:

@Jetsfan80 seems like the only way the Jets can reasonably dump Wilson is if they find a trade partner and designate post June 1. Not sure I'm reading this correctly though.

https://overthecap.com/player/zach-wilson/9466

who is trading for this guy?

Assuming he can't be traded, are you willing to go into 2023 with Mike White as the projected starter and ZW being one hit away from the starter? I don't like the idea and I don't think we're paying Mike White & Minshew (or whoever) plus Wilson.

Those 3 combined would still likely be cheaper than one Carr, Rodgers or Garoppolo.

I'd rather put my eggs in several baskets than just one at QB, considering that none of the bigger name options are appealing (and Jimmy G is injury prone to boot).  Denver went "all in" on Russell Wilson and that didn't work out well.  You're paying big coin for mercenaries.

[Barry McCockinner]

38 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Those 3 combined would still likely be cheaper than one Carr, Rodgers or Garoppolo.

I'd rather put my eggs in several baskets than just one at QB, considering that none of the bigger name options are appealing (and Jimmy G is injury prone to boot).  Denver went "all in" on Russell Wilson and that didn't work out well.  You're paying big coin for mercenaries.

I get what you're saying but I think you'd be hard pressed to find a roster constructed that way where a guy is getting starter money and inactive every week by design.

Not the biggest fan of the Jimmy g route due to his injury history. Russ seems like he was a product of Pete Carroll.

I like Carr because he's been very productive under several coaches and schemes and rarely misses a game. He would be an obvious upgrade but I am very skeptical about his availability. Obviously compensation is a deal there too.

[jgb]

8 hours ago, choon328 said:

Gardner Minshew was available for a trade in 2021 ans was traded for a 6th rd pick. If any team since then offered more then that to the Eagles they would've taken it. If teams thought he was starting caliber, he wouldn't be backing up Jalen Hurts right now, he'd be on another team playing. 

Lol no they wouldn’t accept it. They wanted him for a SB run. This is a team who won a ring with Foles recently.

[jgb]

8 hours ago, Barry McCockinner said:

It will be good to see him try out for the Jets with playoff seeding on the line.

He already has tried out and shown it. Why does everyone place everything onto the most recent single data point? Recency bias to the extreme 

[Maxman]

13 hours ago, bla bla bla said:

Yea he's a gamble for sure. Idk what he'll be looking to make.

He has a shot to increase his value with Hurts out this week.

[Maxman]

5 hours ago, Barry McCockinner said:

I get what you're saying but I think you'd be hard pressed to find a roster constructed that way where a guy is getting starter money and inactive every week by design.

Not the biggest fan of the Jimmy g route due to his injury history. Russ seems like he was a product of Pete Carroll.

I like Carr because he's been very productive under several coaches and schemes and rarely misses a game. He would be an obvious upgrade but I am very skeptical about his availability. Obviously compensation is a deal there too.

Here is what scares me about Carr. I know a bunch of Raiders fans that hate him. His #s look great but why do they hate him?

[Barry McCockinner]

7 hours ago, Maxman said:

Here is what scares me about Carr. I know a bunch of Raiders fans that hate him. His #s look great but why do they hate him?

Have you ever done a Google image search for "raiders fans"?

Seriously though, ask them why. I don't know. 

I just looked at dvoa defensive rankings for the raiders throughout his career. The best defense he ever had ranked 16th. They're usually closer to the bottom of the league.

I think a lot of the time the QB takes too much blame when the team isn't winning. Could be as simple as he's never been on a strong team and people blame him.

    dvoa    record    playoffs
2014: 26    3-13
2015: 16    7-9
2016: 24    12-4        0-1
2017: 30    6-10
2018: 31    4-12
2019: 31    7-9
2020: 28    8-8
2021: 17    10-7        0-1
2022: 32    6-8

Looking at the lack of playoff games and wins tells me that's probably the reason they hate him. 

The Jets are 6 in dvoa this year and if we had a guy who could stay healthy and efficiently distribute the ball to our playmakers all year we probably would have won at least a couple more games.

[Dunnie]

Isn’t it interesting that a defense of BYU compels people to defecate upon league MVP QBs?

?? You suggested the Jets need a RB .. I said we already have Breece Hall .. didn't even mention BYU.

Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk

[jgb]

23 minutes ago, Dunnie said:

?? You suggested the Jets need a RB .. I said we already have Breece Hall .. didn't even mention BYU.

Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk

 

I suggested nothing.

If Lamar Jackson is “an RB” what is BYU? A hair model?

[Lith]

On 12/18/2022 at 8:01 PM, peebag said:

Mike White 2.0

Excpet that Minshew actually stays on the field in games he starts.  Minshew has missed one snap in 22 games started.  White has missed parts of 4 of the 6 games he has started.  I like White,  but I would rather have the guy without the injury history.

[undertow]

9 hours ago, Maxman said:

Here is what scares me about Carr. I know a bunch of Raiders fans that hate him. His #s look great but why do they hate him?

Fans overvalue QBs on other teams that they don't see every snap.... Carr is a solid QB but he's not taking anyone to a Super Bowl....either is Gardner friggin Minshew.  I don't think Mike White is winning us a SB but he can get us as far as any of these 2nd tier QBs that we will have to pay 30 mil.

[Barry McCockinner]

6 minutes ago, undertow said:

Fans overvalue QBs on other teams that they don't see every snap.... Carr is a solid QB but he's not taking anyone to a Super Bowl....either is Gardner friggin Minshew.  I don't think Mike White is winning us a SB but he can get us as far as any of these 2nd tier QBs that we will have to pay 30 mil.

Derek Carr has never played on a team with a top 5 defense. 

[SomebodytoAnybody47]

9 hours ago, Maxman said:

Here is what scares me about Carr. I know a bunch of Raiders fans that hate him. His #s look great but why do they hate him?

I think he’s just a slightly above average QB. Good enough to keep you competitive but he’s not carrying the team. So the whole team around him needs to be pretty good  

That’s why it’s kinda redundant when we have White. Basically the same thing. 

Although outside of like 5-6 guys. That’s basically what you’re getting with every QB that’s in the 5-20 range.